Discrimination against Women by the Brahma Kumaris

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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jann

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Discrimination against Women by the Brahma Kumaris

Post01 Jul 2010

I know of someone who has openly been discriminated by the BKWSU for being a woman. :shock: Woman rights are human rights so I believe I have a point.
Determined to implement the principles set forth in the Declaration on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women and, for that purpose, to adopt the measures required for the elimination of such discrimination in all its forms and manifestations,

Have agreed on the following:

PART I Article I

For the purposes of the present Convention, the term "discrimination against women" shall mean any distinction, exclusion or restriction made on the basis of sex which has the effect or purpose of impairing or nullifying the recognition, enjoyment or exercise by women, irrespective of their marital status, on a basis of equality of men and women, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, civil or any other field.

Article 2

States Parties condemn discrimination against women in all its forms, agree to pursue by all appropriate means and without delay a policy of eliminating discrimination against women and, to this end, undertake:
(a) To embody the principle of the equality of men and women in their national constitutions or other appropriate legislation if not yet incorporated therein and to ensure, through law and other appropriate means, the practical realization of this principle;
(b) To adopt appropriate legislative and other measures, including sanctions where appropriate, prohibiting all discrimination against women;

(c) To establish legal protection of the rights of women on an equal basis with men and to ensure through competent national tribunals and other public institutions the effective protection of women against any act of discrimination;

(d) To refrain from engaging in any act or practice of discrimination against women and to ensure that public authorities and institutions shall act in conformity with this obligation;

(e) To take all appropriate measures to eliminate discrimination against women by any person, organization or enterprise;

(f) To take all appropriate measures, including legislation, to modify or abolish existing laws, regulations, customs and practices which constitute discrimination against women;

(g) To repeal all national penal provisions which constitute discrimination against women.

Article 3

States Parties shall take in all fields, in particular in the political, social, economic and cultural fields, all appropriate measures, including legislation, to en sure the full development and advancement of women , for the purpose of guaranteeing them the exercise and enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms on a basis of equality with men.

There is more here http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/cedaw/text/econvention.htm#article16
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ex-l

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Re: DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN

Post01 Jul 2010

What are the details of their claims and allegations? Were they discriminated by the BKs because they were, e.g. a women, a different race, a different or lower caste ... or some other personal reason.

Why do you say "woman"?

The BKs are, lately, keen to try and promote themselves as neo-feminists ... we have often argued here that is not true. My suggestion is that they operate more like celibate lesbians and all into the same kind of dominant and submissive role types as males and females do in traditional societies ... the senior BKs taking over the male roles rather than reforming society..

jann

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Re: DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN

Post01 Jul 2010

As non BK, not allowed to accompany a male BK because she is a woman. Funny because BK are not to look at the body but only the soul, they are all Brothers. So the non BK thing is an issue ore the woman thing? Either way it is discrimination. :-?
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filthy shudra

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Re: DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN

Post02 Jul 2010

My guess is that she was sexually attractive, or very smart, and brought up "insecurity" in the BK Sisters ...

or both.

jann

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Re: DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN

Post02 Jul 2010

Good point FS, I believe it is both.

So if someone is to attractive and to smart it is OK to discriminate against that person? Is it not that BKs cannot handle it so the best thing to do is to "delete" it?
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filthy shudra

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Re: Discrimination against Women

Post02 Jul 2010

We all need to discriminate who we spend time with. But others should not have a right or a power to tell us who that is.
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ex-l

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Re: DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN

Post02 Jul 2010

[quote="jann"]So if someone is too attractive and too smart it is OK to discriminate that person?/quote]
it depends if that 'someone' who is "attractive and smart" is good for service and cooperative or a challenge to their Empire building and control over the minds of their adherents.

I am sorry but in this case, I do not think it is "discrimination".

In many cultures women do not walk with men, especially unmarried ones. This is widely true in India. It is more about the Brahma Kumaris'/Lekhraj Kirpalani's Victorian sexual attitudes. They would be afraid that the male BK would be sexually or emotionally attracted to the female.

I do not know if the Brahma Kumaris who separated you were Indian, but is also worth mentioning that the 'traditional' view of men within the BKWSU ... especially within the 'old school' members or those under their thumbs ... is that men are uncontrollable "lusty dogs" ready to stick their "sword of lust" into anything with a pulse.

Of course, this flies in the face of the evidence that some of the female center-in-charges are equally uncontrollable "lusty women" ready to "get down and get dirty" ... even whilst remaining in their position of power within the BKWSO.

For most Indians, the separation of the sexes are normal. If anything, the BKs might even appear liberal or progressive to them. For example, traditionally, in some sects the women would have to sit at the back of the room at the temple, men at the front, they are excluded from many religious ceremonies/pilgrimage place etc and even in traditional Buddhism, women are consider not worthy and capable of enlightenment in this birth.
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ex-l

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Re: DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN

Post02 Jul 2010

jann wrote:So if someone is too attractive and too smart it is OK to discriminate that person?

it depends if that 'someone' who is "attractive and smart" is good for service and cooperative or a challenge to their Empire building and control over the minds of their adherents.

I am sorry but in this case, I do not think it is "discrimination".

In many cultures women do not walk with men, especially unmarried ones. This is widely true in India. It is more about the Brahma Kumaris'/Lekhraj Kirpalani's Victorian sexual attitudes. They would be afraid that the male BK would be sexually or emotionally attracted to the female.

I do not know if the Brahma Kumaris who separated you were Indian, but is also worth mentioning that the 'traditional' view of men within the BKWSU ... especially within the 'old school' members or those under their thumbs ... is that men are uncontrollable "lusty dogs" ready to stick their "sword of lust" into anything with a pulse.

Of course, this flies in the face of the evidence that some of the female center-in-charges are equally uncontrollable "lusty b@tches" ready to "get down and get dirty" ... even whilst remaining in their position of power within the BKWSO.

For most Indians, the separation of the sexes are normal. If anything, the BKs might even appear liberal or progressive to them. For example, traditionally, in some sects the women would have to sit at the back of the room at the temple, men at the front, they are excluded from many religious ceremonies/pilgrimage place etc and even in traditional Buddhism, women are consider not worthy and capable of enlightenment in this birth.

duty bound

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Re: Discrimination against Women

Post03 Jul 2010

I have observed what I would call the "Cinderella Complex" where an attractive BK Sister would be ignored and ostracized by the ugly Sisters. Often maligned in order to "teach her a lesson".

Discrimination against women is often, in my opinion, done by other women as well as men.

If a women's only currency is her looks then that currency is not of any use in the BK world. Often women with children are I think looked on with jealously by older spinsters who have renounced that in their own lives. Correct me if I am wrong though is not a Shiva lingum a phallic symbol? Or a symbol of fertility? My point being that there is a lot of very real and present examples of gender and sexuality throughout Hinduism and the memorials are all around, when did the natural need and act for intimacy and love between human beings become so lost in fear that to love another is detrimental to spiritual growth?

Hope this isnt to off topic ...
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ex-l

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Re: Discrimination against Women

Post03 Jul 2010

duty bound wrote:If a women's only currency is her looks then that currency is not of any use in the BK world.

... when did the natural need and act for intimacy and love between human beings become so lost in fear that to love another is detrimental to spiritual growth?

Not at all ... it is definitely heading 'on topic'.

I would modify your statement above to,
If a women's only currency is her looks then that currency is of little use INSIDE the BK world ... but is mostly likely to use be used OUTSIDE of the BK world by the BKWSU.

It may be "body-conscious" but if it is good for service then "Kumaris (attractive young women) in front".

A lot of the "prudishness" in Indian society actually came in with the British and their Victorian attitudes which the middle and upper classes sought to copy. I have seen Indian Hindus discuss the Brahma Kumaris making precisely this criticism and suggesting it is out of place today.

Certainly, leaving maniacs like Janki Kripalani to rule over the lives of 10,000s of young unpaid female servants with few to no legal rights belongs to some feudal age, not the 21st Century.

If you remove any thought of a "God" factor ... because we know now there was no God Shiva at the beginning of the Om Mandli and how many fakes, failures and errors their god spirits has made ... how much of Brahma Kumarism was and still is an expression of Lekhraj Kirpalani's own psychological issues good and bad? That is to say, relevant to the Sindi society of the late 1800s - which was still wrestling with and benefiting from - the British influence - and its issues.

Look also at the preferential treatment white women receive from the inner circle/Sindi elite ... whilst at the same time being kept one rung down The Ladder from them. Why after 40 years in the West are their no real Western female leaders in the BKWSU?

Women in the West often talk about "The Glass Ceiling" which stops women rising within corporate culture. Does the BKWSU not operate a "Sindi Ceiling" or something similar? If you are discussing Discrimination against Women in the BKWSU, you would also have to ask about 'skin tone'. How many really dark skinned Indians are in high positions within the BKWSU, e.g. Dravidian or South Indian? The Murlis used to be full of negative statements regarding 'dark' or 'black skinned' human beings. I understand many of these are being removed now.

Are those women "less spiritual"? (I know this to have been true of my time in the BKWSU but I am now out of touch with current events and would appreciate an update).
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ex-l

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Re: Discrimination against Women by the Brahma Kumaris

Post03 Jul 2010

In your situation mentioned above, it is also worth underlining that the reason you were discriminated against was not just because you were a women but because you were an essentially untrustworthy, vice-filled, filthy Shudra.

A situation made even moreso if the woman involved was an intellectual challenge to the mental control of the Brahma Kumari women over their adherents.

I think I would argue that it is not so much the sexual attraction or impurity that they are worried about ... those can be easily dealt with and failures of will are few amongst BK followers for fear of the punishment, humiliation and repercussions ... but the intellectual threat an intelligent, independent woman might pose.

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