Does BK Cult Strip You of Your Childhood, Manhood, Womanhood

I would be interested to know if ex-bks feel they have been stripped of either their childhood, adulthood, manhood, womanhood, motherhood, fatherhood, parenthood, grandparenthood etc

If so, did you find it difficult or almost impossible to regain these back in your life?

Thanks
Enlightened

It may very well be for those who come into it before they have explored life to any extent.

Others who come as matured adults would have a different experience. I feel that someone who already has has a full adult life - career, marriage, family, who begins in the Gyan would not find the teachings as restrictive as a child or teenage or young adult would. These younger ones would be fighting the instincts to explore and find parts of themselves that every human being does. It took me a long time to realise much of my masculinity was not "sublimated" or purified - rather it was neutered.

I have made conscious efforts to do activities that helped revive those qualities - some that were written in the other topic about spaciness - other things like male only workshops that involved strong masculine energy stuff like energetic and athletic dance rituals and drumming, as well as martial arts.

I feel sorry the most for the young women that society and especially biology place time limits on to realise especially their sexuality and motherhood. Martial arts also can help women who have not found that they can be assertive or who feel unsafe or insecure.

Interestingly, I know an ex-BK who thought she was deeply into menopause at a relatively early age, but an alternative therapist of some sort, maybe Chinese acupuncturist or herbalist(?), said that it was likely to be hormonal imbalance that was emotionally related, and said he could treat her to begin menstruating again and even potentially have children. I think we should never give up and always explore all options.

Thanks for your comments, filthy Shudra

i just wanted to comment that doesnt the fact that we are taught that we are souls and not bodies; to be detached from our bodies; takes away all the emotions and feelings of femininity and masculinity from an individual. Doesn't this have an impact on their masculinity and femininity on all ages and on people no matter what age or how experienced they are in life?

As a child entering - the poor child has not even been allowed to develop as a child, never mind experience their masculinity or femininity.

As an adult - you must be detached from your friends and family; you mustn't attract the attention of the opposite sex; you mustn't be seen to be talking with another member of the opposite sex or allowing any familiarity to enter as it will be a form of attachment; you cannot hold hands of the opposite sex, you cant date anyone, you cant have sex with anyone; even if you enter as a married couple, then you must lead a pure celibate life in order to reach God and get a status in the Golden Age; you cannot pro-create/have children etc etc.

So, doesnt it have an impact on the femininity and masculinity even if you enter at a later stage? How easy do people find it to get back in touch with these natural qualities once they exit the BK cult? Do ex-bks ever fully regain these qualities to the maximum or is there always a dark cloud hanging that stops you from being fully feminine or masculine? It would be interesting to share any further comments and experiences.

Does considering yourself as a soul all the time not take away the fact that we are human and that we are male or female? If I remember correctly, since childhood, I have been told that i am a soul and that the soul has no gender. So when I look at my mother, she is a soul, when I look at my Father, he is a soul, when I look at siblings they are a soul ... in fact, everyone one who is related or not related to you is a soul that has no gender! Doesn't that take away any feeling or emotion that is related to being male or female ... doesn't it strip you of your identity as a human being?

regards
enlightened

Does considering yourself as a soul all the time not take away the fact that we are human and that we are male or female? ...in fact, everyone one who is related or not related to you is a soul that has no gender! doesnt that take away any feeling or emotion that is related to being male or female...doesnt it strip you of your identity as a human being?

Dear enlightened,

You were a child as a BK? You parents were BKs? If so, yes that would be very difficult for you. What an adult who becomes a BK is looking for, is maybe to get back in touch with something that is rarely allowed for most adults, the magic or wonder or child like innocence - makes it seem like BK is the right thing for them to do.

But for a child in BK - they have all those qualities already, and to be held in that state for too long will definitley leave damage.

Grown ups - especially those who've already married and had a family - are like a fruit tree, they have grown, produced fruit - their children, planted seeds - like investments - for their retirement etc, and religion, even extreme like BK, now plays a 'good' part for them.

A child or young BK is told - you are a seed, not a tree, do not bear fruit - do not sow seeds (sex) etc. It is psychological abuse in passive form. It is like a grumpy old man telling children don't bother doing anything, you will only grow old and die, so prepare for death - and in BKs they say you won't even grow old, death will come to the world in Destruction, always in just a few years - after next succesful service program!!

But dear enlightened, you seem to understand this, and to understand is only a first step to change. Long journeys start with first step, they do not end with one step. It is not enlightened just to understand, you have to live and do.

Also, I agree with you that "I am soul" philosophy is very hard to shake off.

Many ex-BKs have found Buddhism gives a solid spiritual philosophy that is different to BKs (see topic here). I have studied a bit of it and continue to do so. Buddha taught "annatta" at the centre of his philosophy - which means "no self". They are not saying you don' t exist, they are saying all things exist dependently on each other, even the self - body, heart, mind etc all together - and all things are in flux and impermanent.

Hindus and Brahmins (lokik and BK) don't like Buddhism because it says to fix "self" or atman as something eternal and permanent is ego and the biggest illusion. They do use the word atman, but not like Hindus. They just mean 'self" the way normal people use the word self. To hold on to a notion of "eternal self" is considered a conceptual attachment that prevents you overcoming life's big and small sufferings ... another topic completely.

Dear Filthy Shudra

Is there any particular type of Buddhism (as there are many branches) that the ex-bks you know of find particularly useful please.

You were a child as a BK? You parents were BKs? If so, yes that would be very difficult for you. What an adult who becomes a BK is looking for, is maybe to get back in touch with something that is rarely allowed for most adults, the magic or wonder or child like innocence - makes it seem like BK is the right thing for them to do.

Thanks again Filthy Shudra

Yes, I was a child and, yes, half-parents and 1 sibling were BKs but other half-parents and other siblings were not BKs!! They were fortunate not to be brainwashed or attracted to go to the BKs but also, the other siblings were older and maybe more aware of things then us.

I like the way you have described certain things and they do make a lot of sense for me. I shall certainly be taking on board some of the advice you have given.

Regards
Enlightened

Does BK Cult Strip You of Your Childhood, Manhood, Womanhood?

"Asset stripping" is what I would call it. Whatever assets you have.

Simply put, assets are anything tangible or intangible that is capable of being owned or controlled to produce value and that is held to have positive economic value. They represent the ownership of any value that can be converted into cash.

Your youth is an asset to them. The time energy you put into your family is an asset to them. The time, energy and money you might invest into a sexual, emotional, loving relationship is an asset to the BKWSU. They want it all and they have become an organization that convert that either directly or indirectly into power, wealth and property for them. For their control.

Service is business PR. Centers are property. Status is power. The BKWSU, or the jealous, avaricious god spirit of the BKWSU (I do not know which), wants it all. In the early days of the West (the middle-period of India service) they wanted it all ... surrender, surrender, surrender. It seems that now they have so much, they are happy with as little as they can get.

As you read this, you may think it reads extreme ... but it is not. Your life is all about spiritual energy and that spiritual energy is converted into physical, monetary things. Tangible and intangible.

So what are you and your little life worth to them ... as much as you can GIVE. As much as they can GET. If you NEED or WANT ... ha! Forget it. You will soon see the real face of the BKWSU. Even try and do some FAIR TRADE ... ha! Forget it. You will soon see the real face of the BKWSU. It seems that the only "subsidiary businesses" the BKWSU tolerates are the petty thieves (the disappearing taxi money ... center embezzlements) or those that just go off and sell what they have taken.

When did you ever hear the god spirit of the BKWSU, of the BKs teaching, "Invest in yourself", "Protect your (self) investment", "grow your investment", "strengthen yourself". Ha! Never. They don't. They con people into believing the world is going to end soon and then take as much labor or money off them as they can.

So, does BK cult strip you of your childhood, manhood, womanhood? Yes. Utterly if they can. And you cannot get it back. Not even if you take them to court. They are psychopathic (no feelings for others) vampires ... very subtle ones but vampires all the same.

I am sorry if it has happened to you.

Dear Filthy Shudra and Ex I

thanks very much for your 2 cents on this topic. I will certainly think about trying some Buddhist meditation and maybe martial arts if health permits.

yours
Enlightened

What is down with your health right now?

I cannot give any specific recommendations about Buddhist mediations ... but I can say that I read a report from a counselor/therapist that individuals practicising 'mindful awareness' meditations suffer far less from typical post-cult come downs. It was considered that perhaps this was because the attention was on staying conscious rather than 'spacing out' (cannot find it right now though).

I think that there is something good to be had from just joining with others in any activity and a large part of the buzz or good feeling comes about from just that ... and none of the attached voodoo and manipulation of group dynamics.

We went a little way off topic though. For many people, Buddhism is a either slightly more classy Hinduism, or a cultural derivation of Hinduism, e.g. the way it is practised in many Asian societies is just Hinduistic; deities, chanting, superstition, prayers for money and male first children. It plays no more of an importance that Roman Catholicism in the West.

Any small group of people is going to suffer from cult-like group dynamics. This became obvious and has been studied by sociologists etc looking at the "intentional communities" which started up after the 1960s. They have strengths and weakness. It is funny because, typically, the BKWSU pretends that such dynamics do not apply to its centers and zone and ignores everything else that has been learned.

Your question, "Does BK Cult Strip You of Your Childhood, Manhood, Womanhood?" is largely still unanswered, especially by individuals speaking of their personal experiences rather than their theoretical suggestions.

May I ask another less specific one, "Does BK Cult Strip You of Your Individuality?"

I think they try in a lot of subtle, cumulative ways. It is a lot easier for a few leaders to manage a large army of followers when the followers are made to think, act and look alike. There is a reason why cults, army, political organizations, cultures even do that to individuals, e.g. I am thinking of Maoist China. It works.

The next honest question that needs to be asked is "Can Having Your Identity or Your Childhood, Manhood, Womanhood Stripped from You be Good For You?"

In theory, I could see why "yes" is a possible answer, a pertinent component of an authentic "spiritual" path or life and why individuals should go through that. There is a lot junk in our personalities and past that could well be thrown out. Modern Western lifestyle encourages individualism to an immature, selfish and destructive level. Individualism is not god either. "Me, my, mine ..." it is the cry of a raging infant in an adults body and a fairly new invention for most of humanity, most of whom have to give up parts of their self for either their families or society. Think 'Western Individualism versus Eastern Collectivism'.

The problem I think with the BKWSU is that it takes authentic religious or spiritual methods and devices and uses them for its own end ... which is half-baked, unknown, untested. For me, the big problem with the BKWSU is that it does not belong to a bigger, longer, tested and accountable tradition ... and it is dishonest. Its leaders are dishonest. Even its spirit guide is dishonest and manipulative.

So, in short, they are taking a part of a practise, e.g. the stripping of self, but then using for their own ends which could be, e.g. turning individuals into unconscious spiritualistic channelers for their spirit guide or unthinking (if you beleive in the spiritualist elements of the BKWSU) or unquestioning robots to carry out their desires.

It is not just the method one has to look at but also the use or intention behind the method which one has to look.

Now, to turn this topic and the other one about spacing out on their heels ... far rather than recommend MORE MEDITATION which is more likely going to make you depressed again ... why not join a choir instead? I am serious about this. Why not join with other people doing something fun, light, simple and happy? I know that in London and many other place there are fun "social choirs" starting up where people just get together for the hell of it and sing together.

Of course, this is great because it also involved just breathing without any spiritualistic connotations involved, and breathing and being with other people is great. This I can recommend from personal experience. Ditto amateur dramatics can be a lot of fun and get you out of yourself and your room, allow you explore new personalities.

It certainly strips you of your sense of self identity, and self confidence, esteem so on

Mr Green is right. It replaces our own with the identity and esteem that is bestowed by the yugya, and which you inevitably lose if you leave, so people cannot feel free to move on.

Offtopic: I notice that my reply to Enlightened's question of me, above, has been moved to another topic - it now looks like I did not reply. Could the site Admin possibly edit in a link to the reply above please? I do not want to appear as if i ignored her request. Thanks