Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Enigma

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post29 Feb 2012

To ex-l and Allies

Having made my position clear twice, I have no intention of answering any of your questions, as I am not accountable to you - and where I am accountable my position is very clear.

A dialogue can only take place where there is an open mind on both sides, where neither is trapped in their opinion. Long before I made my point of view known, it was clear that that this was not such an environment as I had been hung, drawn and quartered by you and your allies in this court with my position never being sought. Furthermore this character assassination had taken place over many months. If anyone had really been interested in the truth, before such damning comments had been made a dialogue with me would have been sought – as was suggested by one of the commentators who spoke about his/her experience being at odds with yours. Now that I’ve dared to make my position clear, all of a sudden you want a dialogue! This is not how healthy communication works, condemning someone first and asking questions later!

As for your selective referencing of things on our site, this is further evidence of your ignorance of what Reach is about. We are not endorsing anyone or anything. We are putting forward information and philosophies we believe have some relevance and are leaving people to make up their own minds. If you were familiar with our site and our work you’d be aware of this because our agenda is not hidden. So citing particular individuals like Dr. Emoto (who by the way I haven’t given him his title) does not in any way discredit our position because thankfully individuals using the site can decide for themselves what fits and what doesn’t ... clearly a philosophy you don’t subscribe to.

Please note if you insist on maintaining this debate I will not be pulled into a dialogue with you for the reasons I’ve already given, so don’t waste your time addressing things to me. But as I said, if slanderous and defamatory remarks continue then despite your legal reference I will do what I need to, to protect Reach’s good name. Thank you for the legal advice but given that my best interests have not been considered throughout I will be taking the advice I need from a lawyer.

Easton Hamilton

starchild

ex-BK

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post29 Feb 2012

I am posting here not as anyone's ally but because I have an opinion and because I hope I am allowed to express my opinions when and where I wish to.

I can hear that Enigma and those who are defending him really believe in the work he is doing, and that it is difficult to feel that his life work is under attack, but I do not really think that is the case.

This site is a valuable outlet for a lot of people to come to, when they are left lost and confused after the BK experience. I do not understand how anyone, let alone people who are helping people with emotional and mental difficulties, can ignore the testimonies here ... even if their opinion is that the people already had the problems before involvement with the BKs.

It took me a long time to be able to look at the BKs with an honest and objective criticism. I believe that was due to fear. It is after all part of their teachings that those who "fail" will "defame" and "do disservice" and, of course, those who become deeply involved with the BKs have to unravel that sense of failure among all the other things they are left with.

Enigma came to this site to defend Reach, which is fair enough, given it is his life's work. I do not believe anyone on this site would not be happy that troubled individuals have a place to go to help them along their way.

The main concern I have is that their is no reference or comment on the allegations (whether they are true or unfounded) of abuses raised here. After all that is what this site is about.

The denial and dismissal of abuse by institutions and organizations is the first and protracted response that individuals and groups have to deal with when questions of abuse are raised to be redressed. I am commenting on the BK organization here, not Reach.

It appears that many BKs in recent times, have taken what they imbibed during their time with the BKs and used it in various ways to make a living and career from it. Again I am not saying that is the case here, merely that that may be why the questions have arisen.

And I, personally, would like to know what is Reach's approach to Institutional Abuse. Would they be open to helping clients whose lives are damaged in this way?

smiley50

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post29 Feb 2012

I am really pleased that Enigma has chosen to not engage in debate but again make very good points which are again being ignored, and yet again a selective response is being used to create a debate of those firing accusations choosing, although I notice a milder tone in some cases and very slightest signs of back tracking (which I am sure will be denied).
The main concern I have is that their is no reference or comment on the allegations (whether they are true or unfounded) of abuses raised here. After all that is what this site is about.

The denial and dismissal of abuse by institutions and organizations is the first and protracted response that individuals and groups have to deal with when questions of abuse are raised to be redressed. I am commenting on the BK organization here, not Reach.

I have the urge, altho I have said will no longer spend time on this debate, to make a very simple but important point which will without doubt be the last time I even look at this thread never mind comment.

Reference to abuse(s) is being made and a demand for a response from Reach, when it been made clear Reach and the BKs are not affiliated, so there for your calling one organisation to discuss alleged abuse carried out by another unrelated organisation.


Why should Enigma or anyone at Reach defend or criticise any organisation to WHEN IT IS CLEARLY STATED THERE IS NO AFFILIATION? (for ex-l to comprehend I understand this to mean ... connection, link, dealings, association, calibration unless the meaning of the word has changed???)

There are more than enough people IN THIS THREAD casting aspersions without another joining in, and there is such arrogance in some quarters they do not warrant a response as clearly they are right and those who have had in-depth interactions over several years with both the man and organisation are wrong.

Hopefully this personal crusade by the small minded few will cease (sadly unlikely) and not affect anyone who needs the kind of help I did and found in the form of Reach.

ex-l my final words are saved just for you, I think your nappy may need changing or it could be the stink coming from that which I am reading. Your childish retorts are both great entertainment and the downfall of your position. Your argument has the depth of a puddle and your defence is like tissue paper and the silhouette of the small, shallow, narrow minded and arrogant individual is clear for all to see. Continue your good work because I don't the "the guru's" followers, as you so wittily describe us, need to do much more with your good self commenting so intelligently ;)

P.S How was the phone call??

Dee

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post29 Feb 2012

I have been reading some of the comments posted on your site and in my humble opinion this site is so anti BK that you are willing to destroy the livelihood of anyone who you think is slightly related to BK.

Whereas I have no experience with BK, I must admit that I have some experience with Easton Hamilton and The Reach Approach, and I found this organisation to be very helpful. There was no mention of BK to me whilst I was being helped by them, as to money, I did not pay for most of the time I was there (two years) because I had some financial difficulty, and yet the service I receive was next to none.

Personally, I think the energy that is being wasted on putting these people and their good work down could be better spent trying to set up your own organisation to help others. Hurt is hurt no matter how you dress it up ... I suspect that most people who are posting those negative comments are hurting and it is easier to attack others than to look at ourselves as we are afraid of what we might see ... this I know as I am speaking from experience ... In any case, I wish you all peace and as to Easton Hamilton and the Reach Approach, I hope they will continue the fantastic work they are doing ... My family and I will remain truly grateful for the support we have received from Easton Hamilton and the Reach Approach.

Deniese Wilson

smiley50

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post29 Feb 2012

I feel in the last paragraph of my previous post I lowered myself to the level of the very person my comment was made at and although I meant what I said I regret the way it came across.

It is difficult at times to maintain ones composure in the face of such disrespect of a persons personal experience and opinion. The continued dismissal of what those coming to Enigma's defence have to say in such a condescending manner evokes very strong emotion. You must bear in mind we have been through life changing and harrowing moments and have been helped through the other side of these by the organisation to which we have jumped to the defense of.

When someone saves your life, you are willing to come to their defence and will do so robustly if required when such inaccurate and damaging attacks land at their door.
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Mr Green

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post29 Feb 2012

Dearest Reach members

The important issue here is whether Reach ever encourages people to attend BK events or premises. If this ever happens are the Reach members made aware that the BKs are a cult and a very dangerous one?

Some of us here are victims of abuse carried out by members of the BKs, and have been deeply hurt, and taken many years of recovery to be where we are now.

The main purpose of this site is to help people become aware of what the BKs are really about despite their carefully constructed public persona and to hopefully help others not to get sucked in.

No-one here is interested in attacking individuals or organisations but what you need to understand is there are many (countless) front organisations that are disguised so innocent members of the public are unaware that BKs are trying to suck them in. The BKs believe they are doing this for others own good. They think it is necessary to increase their membership so when they have enough members this old Iron Aged world can be destroyed through nuclear war, famine disease and natural disaster. That is their ultimate aim and objective, and their reward for this is to become human-god like creatures that don't have to share the world with lesser humans.

If Enigma has been accused for 20 years of being a front for the BKs and is not then I am not surprised he is angry, but this website is not really very old at all and upsetting him is certainly not part of our agenda.

Like I have said in a previous post in this thread, I have heard good things about his organisation. Someone I know who is a BK has attended his centre and told me it was all very healthy.

This website is the enemy of no-one, it is a place of healing for those that have been deeply wounded and it is a place that hopefully has saved others from suffering such pain.

Love to all
MrGreen

(I do not post my name in a public domain like this for various reasons, but if anyone wants to know who I am contact me by pm and I will happily converse with you).

paula

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post29 Feb 2012

First of all, it saddens me that the core feelings and concerns of every one on this site is in looking out for the most vulnerable people and helping to protect support and empower them, and yet from what I can see through, each individuals own pain. There just seems to be an ongoing war of words.

I have been through a BK meditation course also been on a weekend retreat. I met some very spiritual people, and some not so nice, I've also experienced the secrecy around the Murlis and selection processes with certain retreats. I am the kind of person who questions everything, I've gained a lot from the meditation and, thankfully, have always had my own deep belief in God which no on or nothing could alter. I believe there are some very genuine and sincere people who are full BKs doing a lot of good.

I also believe there's a lot of damage done and because of my own strong morals and ethics in my own life, I am not someone who can turn a blind eye, so I've decided to stand alone and follow my own path. As far as the abuse goes, and proof of suicides, my heart goes out to all those who have been affected, it truly does, and my thoughts of healing go out to all.

I also can understand the concerns as to why the retreat centre is mentioned on the reach web site, as the people who seek personal therapy are in vulnerable positions, and could be taken in if as members have said it is a cult (those are not my views, as I still very much search for my own truth).

However, abuse has gone on in all religions, i.e. the Catholic religion. Only yesterday I was sat in a hospital chapel two seats up from where a nun was seated, I felt tremendous peace, the same peace I felt when I was sat at a Brahma kamaris centre. For me, I came to the conclusion it's not the spiritual or religious group we belong to that matters, it's the spirit inside each individual that counts, There's good and bad in all. I know that from personal experience, we all have to find our own beleifs.

As Easton has said their website covers a vast amount of knowledge for individuals to find their own way and make up their own mind as to what fits with them.

I don't think it's any one's business to question his own views as to where he stands with the BK, that's his own personal and private life. As for the retreat being on his web site, that's also down to his own discretion.

What I will say is I have had personal therapy with Reach for over 3 years now, and never once has BK stuff ever been mentoned in any way shape or form. I came across it from a mind, body and spirit show. Being a qualified counsellor myself, I know about ethics and I can absolutely say the therapist I have seen has always been ethical throughout and helped me in times of great distress, and when I have had questions about my own concerns with my BK involvement, she as certanly helped me to understand it from all angles like any problem I have taken, never once guiding me in that direction.

As for Easton, I have met I am once and spoke with him several times by phone. He has given me support around my health, given me supplements free of charge and always shown me genuine warmth and kindness, which is so lacking in this world. So any indication that he is just about money is certainly not justified in any way.

So I ask you all, if we are all looking out for the most vulnerable, the abused the lonely, if we want to protect the most vulnerable, then let's stop the conflict. Let's use the only thing that can ever really help any one, let's use the words of love, let's not harass a man who is working from his heart, but let's join him and, in our own way, we can each touch another vulnerable person in a way that helps them. We all have it in us.

To finish off, I lost my Brother tragically a year in March. He took his own life. He never judged anyone ever, because he knew what it was to be judged by others ... please, I ask you, it seems your concerns are with the BKs, not Reach. Look into your hearts and use LOVE to help others. Let Reach do their work. I know you have it in you all. I know deep down your core concern is for others and the only thing that can help them is LOVE, LOVE AND MORE LOVE.

I WISH YOU ALL MY LOVE ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN DEEPLY HURT X

smiley50

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post29 Feb 2012

Thank you Mr Green, finally a balanced voice of reason.

Lets hope the tide can now turn from here and others follow your example.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post01 Mar 2012

paula wrote:... please, I ask you, it seems your concerns are with the BKs, not Reach. Look into your hearts and use LOVE to help others. Let Reach do their work. I know you have it in you all. I know deep down your core concern is for others and the only thing that can help them is LOVE, LOVE AND MORE LOVE.

I WISH YOU ALL MY LOVE ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN DEEPLY HURT X

Thank you for your very sincerely post, Paula. It is the sort of post I would very much have hoped for from Enigma or anyone benefitting from therapy work. Yes, you are absolutely correct. It is the Brahma Kumaris we are concerned about, not Reach. More particularly, the Brahma Kumari leadership ... not the following.

As I think I said in this topic, and if not certainly elsewhere, I think the idea of a support mechanism, counselling, therapy WITHIN the BK movement would be a very good thing.

The needless suicide of the very beautiful and talented Ranjana Patel and her Brother, both BKs/ex-BKs, was a very key inspiration to this support forum and so I understand where you are coming from. If you knew anything of that history, you would understand immediate why we are here ... and seeking to expose the inner workings of the BKWSU at every chance.


One of the things we do like to do here is show to BK followers that there are other options. That life does not stop after BK. That they can free themselves from the chains the BK leaderships put around them ... and that leaving or further developing themselves beyond the constraints of the BK movement does not mean 'death' ... which is how it is portrayed within the core of BKism.

I am absolutely sure that Enigma has suffered contempt, criticism and even just simple envy and jealous within the BK movement for going it on his and investing in himself ... as we would advise ... rather than investing all his mind, body and wealth into the Brahma Kumaris business, and parroting everything they say and do. I wish he would talk honest and positively of that, and of the way HE found his way out.

Or if he is not completely out, then at least beyond. There is no shame to being a BK if at least you are open and honest about it.

As a rule, we would be perfect sympathetic, understanding and appreciative of that. We would offer our positive support and help. It is important for the world to know the whole truth of the BKs ... and it is an important example for BKs to see people talking out and getting on with their lives after BK.

Unless you have experienced being in on the inside of BKism, you will not understand the full extent of their mind and milieu control ... and the importance of sites like this.

Arguably, 'we' have done more to encourage reform within the BKWSU than anyone inside has managed particularly because we do speak honestly and are not bowed by fear of them.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post01 Mar 2012

Mr Green wrote:If Enigma has been accused for 20 years of being a front for the BKs and is not then I am not surprised he is angry, but this website is not really very old at all and upsetting him is certainly not part of our agenda.

Thank you too ...

Yes, I think there are a number of threads all twisted together here. I think Enigma is saying that for the last 20 years *within* the BKWSU, individuals from *within* the BKWSU have been accusing him. I don't think he has been accused of being a 'BK front' for 20 years.

I understand his ire was that ... excusing my language ...

    a) Having taken sh*t from BKs for 20 years for ... 'not being BK enough'.

He was now

    b) P*ssed at taking sh*t from ex-BKs for ... 'being too BK'!

I'd be p*ssed at that too.

Actually, people HAVE tried to attack me on the basis that I was once in the cult ... which made me laugh as the BKs probably think I am the third most evil "devil" in the world after Virendra Dev Dixit and the leader of the Anti-Party.

But that does underline his involvement in the BKWSU which I have no problem with ... if he is a good and enlightened BK.

I mean, mostly it is silly to pretend. Our sources within the BK and ex-BK communities are so good there is little point in hiding anything.


Personally, I would LOVE to see Dadi Janki and Jayanti Kirpalani pulled into an English court of law at some point or another. On the basis of the material we have now ... no amount of "United Nations affiliations" would save them. And they know it too. They lied and deceived to build their business empire ... no court of law can save them from that truth.

There are far too many victims lying behind the BK Juggernaut already and what I call upon Enigma to do, is not to fight us ... but put a stop to that.

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post01 Mar 2012

This website is the enemy of no-one, it is a place of healing for those that have been deeply wounded and it is a place that hopefully has saved others from suffering such pain

Mr. Green, no offence - but really? The enemy of no-one? I cannot imagine how Easton would have ever felt his organisation threatened by such non-judgemental, higher-functioning debate.
It has recently come to my attention that members of the BKWU are offering psychological therapy services in the West Midlands areas
I have looked at the web-site for one of these counsellors and it definitely looks BK to me.
Have a look at the website and see what you think. This appears to be a private business run by members of BKWU.
People are not being told when they go for counselling that these are BKWU.
one would have just put the individual down as "some Brother with a massive amount of manmat (his own opinions)". Possibly even that worst of insults, "still doing Bhakti". But what is the inside story? A frustrated healer therapist who gave away too many of their years to the BKWSU trying to get back on track again?
This REACH set up is definitely BK. The director is Easton Hamilton, still a BK as I understand it since the early 1980s.
One of the major aspects of the site that strikes me are the dozens of testimonials from people claiming to have been helped by this bunch. I wonder how this volume of aduration toward Mr Hamilton and co fits in with the Yogi quality of humility? Seems more like a personality cult to me given the level of almost worship-like praise heaped on them. Given the status of his ego, would you want him as your counsellor?
From the accounts I've received they are trying to subtley influence clients toward BK teachings under the guise of delivering counselling. This seems a rather deceitful process to me and if there approach to therapy is creating confusion and distress in their clients (as was the case for my colleague) this is potentially dangerous.
Perhaps he is a bit of a BK zealot that the Seniors are happy to allow some rope as he still brings in new sacrifices (new BK adherents) to them.
Well, at least I have brought this issue to the attention of this forum and I would encourage all members of this forum to advise anyone you know looking for therapy not to visit this organisation. Spread the word please for everyone's sake.
Yes, that's him. I think he did a variety of jobs before taking up all the therapy stuff. A black guy with a stocky built. A positive personality, and genuinely caring guy, despite the delusions.
I get this sense of whooshy expansiveness which is great for conning people with ... a grand theory of everything ... and a whole lot of verbiage that really does not mean anything. I am damned sure would not pass peer review if ever it was presented. I mean, OK, what does he really know about any of the traditions he is talking about? A "few" ... !?! You mean there are more??? Like plumbing, electrical engineering and a bit of DIY too? He must really be the Master Ocean of Knowledge.
I looked at the site again and am becoming more critical of its amateurishness, commercialism ... and subtle dishonesty re BK experience
But now that we are pretty sure this organisation is a front for BK work, what can we do beyond discussing it on this site to protect people - to protect the public?
Just out of interest ... if the End of the World is coming, why has he bought an expensive home?
He could add to everyone's understanding of the BKWSU giving us his insights ... if he cared.

Shame on you all. Debate is one thing, selective defamation is another. If this is a healing place, ask yourselves whether your tone of debate is worthy of that title. Free speech is one thing but this is simply glib, ill-informed and cruel.

paula

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post01 Mar 2012

ex-l and all

thank you for your response. I absolutely understand why this forum was set up, the death of Ranjana Patel and her Brother, well I can only empathise with the pain, grieve and loss of those precious lives, that I am sure is still felt today.

I do agree that the world should know more about the BKs. I feel I have as much understanding as I need too, and I stand by my truth and feel that if there's any chance of abuse occurring in any organisation then it's in everyone's interest to bring it to light ... but this needs to be done in the correct way without damaging the lives of others.

So I fully understand why you set up this forum to help others. You need to follow your heart but, as you said yourself, the problem lies at the BK headquarters. If you really want to make the world aware, try an change things from there ... I am not anti BK, then I am not anti Catholic, and believe you me I have every reason to be. In fact, Im not against anything, because I believe deep down there is goodness in all.

Easton and the Reach Approach do excellent work. They help the most vulnerable from all walks of life. I have been greatly helped and am still in the process of being helped, especially around my own Brothers death ... without them I don't know where I'd be.

Whether Easton is BK or non-existing BK, it bears no relevance to his work, or the work you are trying to do with this forum ... it's irrelevant, each and every one of us have our own beliefs. We all need to respect each others freedom of choice, and whether we choose to share our beliefs, is up to each individual.

There's been a lot of damage done in a lot of religions and spiritual organisations, and I think it should always be brought to light when its seen.

But I ask you again from my heart, if your heart feels it needs to make the world aware of what the BKs are really about, to protect the vulnerable, then please do it in a just and fair way. I believe everyone should follow their heart even if that means standing alone ...

But allow 'Reach' to do their work, except their truth that their not in any way a front for luring people into the BKs.

It seems to me you care deeply about those who have been hurt ... by continuously questioning Easton's and Reach's motives you are, risking preventing those who desperately need help from seeking it.

As I said previously I am a qualified counsellor, fully aware of ethical guidelines, and I can absolutely say they are an organisation, that I would recommend to anyone in need of help.

There are so many Rajana, her Brother and my Brother out there desperate for help. I can vouch for that. let Reach do their work, and let's do all we can in our own way with LOVE.

I WISH YOU LOVE AND I FEEL YOUR PAIN TOO, please follow your heart, even if it means standing alone x

Orbit

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post01 Mar 2012

This forum is something I’ve watched with interest from afar for some time now, having had it pointed out to me about 6 months ago. I had decided up until now that I was not going to get embroiled in something where I couldn’t be sure that I’d be helping Easton or the reputation of Reach. However, 2 things have now pushed me to make a comment....

The first of these is the final remark in ex-l’s recent posting, which reads:
ex-l wrote:There are far too many victims lying behind the BK Juggernaut already and what I call upon Enigma to do, is not to fight us ... but put a stop to that.

This for me was the straw that broke camel's back because when I look through the correspondence all I can see is that it is Enigma who is the only one being attacked (I’m not sure why you refer to him as Enigma as Easton has not hidden his identity). And even though I perceive a slightly more conciliatory tone emerging from his attackers it seems ridiculous to call on him to stop fighting you when he has simply and clearly stated his position and attacked no one. From what I can tell, far from attacking you, Easton didn’t make any response to the forum at all for many months. I wonder if you’d have been able to hold out that long with others condemning you in such an unjust way?

The second thing which prompted me to post my thoughts and feelings is the courage of Bright Spark, who seemed to be the first person to really take on the criticism aimed at Easton and Reach ... although I’ve noticed that others have now also spoken out ... and this has given me the courage to make my own thoughts known. I dislike confrontation and from everything I’ve read here, these have been very confrontational exchanges with those individuals describing themselves as ex BKs seeming to legitimise their accusations and abuse because they too have been treated badly ... but my question is ... how can it ever be right to condemn the innocent in this way ... in the name of any cause?

I run a training organisation and I’ve worked with Easton and Reach in this context for over 15 years - using their organisation to run training and to offer counselling and supervision. Over that time literally hundreds of our service users have gone through Reach’s doors. And the reason that our contract and relationship with Reach has had such longevity is that there has never been anything but praise in the feedback for the services that they offer. There has never, ever been a reference to being ‘persuaded’ to pursue any path, BK or otherwise.

There’s been much talk on this forum about qualifications and although Easton has spoken very eloquently about his own position he’s not from what I can see got entangled in that particular debate. What I can tell you is that our organisation clearly needed to verify the credentials of Easton and his colleagues and it’s not difficult to ascertain that Easton and his associates are all accredited members of The British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy (BACP). In Easton's case he’s a Senior Registered Practitioner and so are a number of the colleagues we most intensively work with. And this accreditation is the benchmark that all other professional bodies such as the NHS, The Probation and Social Services and training organisations like ours, use when looking to ensure the necessary competence, experience, skills and ethics are possessed by such individuals.

So if what you have been claiming is true then surely after 15 years, given that Easton and Reach have had a steady stream of potential ‘brainwashees’ to ‘convert’, this complaint would have regularly come to my attention, especially as we do our own evaluations and audits of the work - so this is not something they could manipulate or fudge, to conceal their activities.

I’ve felt compelled to say something because the more I've read the more this has felt like a witch hunt ... especially the way things are quoted ... much like the way politicians do, where they are almost always quoting things out of context which then changes the meaning to suit their agenda. I think you actually need to be careful, if indeed you do have a valid message worth hearing pertaining to the activities of the BKs, that you don’t end up discrediting that very message because the more you spread inaccurate information and ill will, the less you yourselves will be heard.

One of the most ridiculous comments I’ve found as I’ve read through the content of this forum is the repeated reference to Easton as a guru. This is someone who despite all that he has done for others and all the people he continues to help, actively avoids the lime light wherever he can. For example, there is no picture of him to be found on the Reach website and neither his picture nor even his name is on any of the literature/materials such as handouts, CDs etc. All the gurus I’m familiar with self-promote shamelessly ... their names are plastered everywhere and their pictures the same. They are taking wealth and other possessions from others in order to fund their own self-promoting activities. They use what charisma they have to manipulate and control others ... the list goes on. Easton is someone who I can say as a consequence of actually knowing him and his work over a long period of time, has never done any of these things. So it's obvious he’s not someone who's trying to generate a following in the way you suggest.

I think it’s exactly because he isn’t this way that he’s so appreciated and trusted.

As I said, I wouldn’t normally contribute to on-line ‘discussions’ in this way (I use the term discussion loosely as this has not been a discussion in the real sense) but the reason I got on board is because of the hostility embodied in so many of the contributions. I couldn’t stand by and watch those who clearly have no accurate knowledge of either the man or the organisation appoint themselves judge and jury in this way. I notice that Easton hasn’t hidden himself away, which I think is courageous given the degree of hostility and unsubstantiated accusation he’s being subjected to. I’m so glad to see that others who are actually informed by their own experience have also had the courage to contribute to these pages and can only hope the tide of vitriol and misinformation is stemmed.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post01 Mar 2012

Bright Spark wrote:Shame on you all. Debate is one thing, selective defamation is another. If this is a healing place, ask yourselves whether your tone of debate is worthy of that title. Free speech is one thing but this is simply glib, ill-informed and cruel.

Bright Spark,

You've taken a lot of quotes from different people having a conversation about something. Two of which have either had direct experience of Reach Approach. Or at least one having direct experience and another with direct knowledge of it. I suspect an ex-BK from the same BK center as Enigma.

I will be honest and up front with you.

    a) There is nothing to be ashamed of in the conversation.
    b) There are a number of valid concerns being raise and highly accurate observations.
    c) And you ... not knowing anything of the Brahma Kumari culture and mode of operation, language, and use of concepts like guru, Bhakti, manmat and the Maryadas (principles) nor, I suspect, being uptodate the science/pseudoscience debate ... really don't understand what is being said.

Even amongst what you've quote are actually comments sympathetic to Enigma's situation and pre-supposing what Enigma himself confirm ... that he would be taking a whole load of cr*p from within the Brahma Kumari movement. Some of those quotes were mine ... what I was doing their was expressing what I guess the attitude of those within the BKWSU would be towards him, e.g.

    "Brother's Maya" (Maya = delusion) is/was a common put down of any BK male follower having ideas of his own and stepping outside of the role the female BK leadership and doing their own thing rather than acting as driver/cleaner/full-time evangelist.
To be honest, your aggressive defence of Engima, although understandable, is not a great advertisement for it. You would need to understand more about the BKs and how they work before you could even understand what we are talking about. We would be happy to explain.
paula wrote:So I fully understand why you set up this forum to help others. You need to follow your heart but, as you said yourself, the problem lies at the BK headquarters. If you really want to make the world aware, try an change things from there.

There's been a lot of damage done in a lot of religions and spiritual organisations, and I think it should always be brought to light when its seen.

Thank you. We know that. Most people here will have tried to change things from within, left, and then tried to change things without. The leadership have erected a high brickwall and gone out of their way to poison the waters around us. In the past we have approached many high profile BKs and BKs involved in the transformation of the religion from a purely Hindu-istic, spiritualist cult to one offering business consulting and counselling services.

The Brahma Kumaris have used many such disguises and encourage followers to do so ... to present themselves in these ways rather than what they really are ... loyal to their spiritualist/millenarianist roots (end of the world cult) and their 'spirit entity' called BapDada who claims to be the God of all religions speaking through an old lady in India.

The BKWSU responded to this site by starting legal action against us to try and intimidate us into shutting it down as, apparently, they did to the previous ex-BK support forum. They lost and by doing so they exposed themselves for being even bigger hypocrites. The individual "celibate" BK center-in-charge who started the action turned out to have had a secret sexual relationship and marriage, damaging two families having left her own infant child with her first husband to join the cult and encouraging her second husband to leave his child ... absolute forbidden taboos within the BKs ... and be involved in all sort of attempted or actual visa frauds and dubious tax/property related business.

They know that we know their operation very well because we collectively have been very close to the heart of in the past, and we are openly discussing and challenging everything at all levels, both positively * and negatively.

The Brahma Kumaris leaders work so secretively, and are such control freaks, the only thing I can liken them to is a Mafia.

(* By "positively", I mean the Brahma Kumaris are exceptionally controlling and secretive of their real teachings, the spirit medium messages not even allowing adherents to take copies home or email to each other. For many years we were the only public source in the world of them, allowing the world to see what the BKs *really* taught and said of others. We support individual BKs the right to have access to their religious teachings whereas the leadership of the cult deny them).
But allow 'Reach' to do their work, except their truth that their not in any way a front for luring people into the BKs.

Well, of course, we have done nothing to disallow Reach from doing their work. We are just discussing it, trying to work out what is going on.

If you are a counsellor, you will understand the next part of what I am going to write whereas Bright Spark might not.

As with Enigma above, we find that when we approach such high profile or public BKs ... or those Western BKs that have expanded beyond the traditional boundaries of BK activities ... they just clam up and won't speak to us. Look, Enigma won't even admit in public he is a BK or an ex-BK.

In truth, I think that:

    a) they are having, or have had, a hard time reconciling perfectly normal, healthy activities ... like developing a personal business and other interests outside of the BKWSU and its philosophies ... and will have had a hard time within the BK system about doing so, and
    b) partly, we 'bring up the the issues' attached to that up for them and, partly, we or the exposure frightens them a little because, naturally, it could threaten their facade, business and income (it is unlikely to do so, ordinary people don't read this forum).

It could be that these issues are issue that are unresolved for them, e.g. we have examined other cases and it turned out the individual was essentially enslave to the BKWSU and was just at the point of breaking away and taking back their own life ... which we, like you, encourage and support.

Just to give you a quick snapshot of the BKWSU, traditionally and still for the core BKs:

    Only they are pure, enlightened and "saved", all others in this world are ignorant, impure and delude
    There is only benefit from BK philosophy and practise, all other religions/faiths/practises/therapies are "degrading"
    Charity is bad as it binds you to other people karmically
    Your own ideas and opinions (manmat) and the opinions and ideas of non-BKs (parmat) are bad things of no value and not to be trusted
    You must surrender your mind, body and wealth to them, as the End of the World is coming there is no point in amassing wealth, property etc ... (by giving it to them, you receive the highest reward)
    BKs are, essentially, forbidden to discuss business together and setting up businesses together as it is a distraction for the mind and away for doing service for their Baba.

And, until recently, they were very forbidden from using any thing taken from the religion to make money for themselves (we are still trying to examine how this has changed recently).

Therefore, appreciating the BK leaders' self-proclaimed status and worldview (they claim their are the most spiritual advanced individuals in the world, twice as spiritual as Buddha, Christ who must come to them now to seek liberation and enlightenment etc) ... and their tendency to manipulate it and deviant from it to suit themselves and financial and political interests ... you can start to understand the framework from which we must see any BK activity.

Personally, I think the best thing Engima could do is leave the BKWSU and cut any connection with them ... get on with his own life, his own business, his own learning and helping his own people in his own way ... but it takes everyone their own time to come to that conclusion.

(The issue of using "What the Bleep do we know?" and 'New Thought Movement' type ideas is a minor and separate issue and beyond the remit of this forum. A lot of it depends on what is called "false confidences" or pseudoscience. Although it may give people inspiration, I would say it is risky ground to get into at a therapeutical/business level, e.g. Masaru Emoto is criticized most not because of the unscientific claims he makes and claim to be a "Doctor" ... but because he has turned them into a business selling magical water as medicine for which there is not enough scientific evidence yet to support.

His photos and ideas are attractive enough as art alone but not science as we know it.
)
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ex-l

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Re: Is the Reach Approach a BK related con?

Post01 Mar 2012

Orbit wrote:I run a training organisation and I’ve worked with Easton and Reach in this context for over 15 years - using their organisation to run training and to offer counselling and supervision.

Welcome to the forum Orbit.

Am I correct to understand from your comments that;

    a) You are not a BK and have no knowledge of the BKWSU?
    b) You are in business with Enigma, that is to say making money together out of all this?

Can I please caution you that at least one of the individuals who has posted comment on this forum was an ex-client of Reach/Enigma's and who considered hurt, threatened or damaged by it, and to remind you that our purposes are

    a) to help BKs, ex-BKs their family and friends
    b) protect non-BKs from negative BKWSU experiences
    c) strictly non-profit

Before you now gang up with ex-Reachies to attack them and their experience further ... may I just remind you that whatever you do will be a reflection on your own professional attitude and abilities as a therapist, and suggest that the best starting point might be to show a little bit of care and consideration for them first?
Orbit wrote:... although Easton has spoken very eloquently about his own position he’s not from what I can see got entangled in that particular debate.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you on that. Enigma waffled at great length - and attacked an ex-client on a public forum - but avoided answering the simplest of questions at all costs ...

    Is he a Brahma Kumari adherent or an ex-Brahma Kumari adherent, and if so for how long?

That is our starting point for discussion.

If there is nothing wrong with Brahma Kumarism, why would he be secretive about it or ashamed to do so?

If Reach does not, I say it would be a good thing to publish their professional accreditation. I did not see it. And I still say his logo is a direct reference or adoption of the Brahma Kumari logo which represents to them their spirit guide 'Shiva Baba' who BKs believe to be the God of all religions.
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