Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Orbit

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post02 Mar 2012

My response is particularly directed at ex-l (but also to those who are interested in a balanced perspective).

Your response to my entry is proof, should I have needed it, of the very things that I documented in my own post. Your approach is very politician-like because you insist on ignoring what people say and then quote from their comments out of context to try and make your point in the hope that your audience is not bright enough to see what you’re doing! I doubt this remark will be presented as a quote in your future entries.

As I said in my posting, this is clearly now just a witch-hunt. Any credibility your points have is rapidly crumbling, which I think is a shame because if your points are valid then this is not the way to get them heard. Your 2 questions about my BK knowledge/status and whether I’m in business with Easton, “making money together out of all of this” are proof of your arrogant, obsessive position. It’s now very clear for all to see that this is a personal vendetta because from what I have been observing, as more people have come forward to Reach’s and Easton’s defence, other individuals in this forum such as Mr. Green and Starchild have clearly begun to respond in more reasonable tones, as if they are giving value to the experience and points of view of Easton personally and The Reach Approach generally. You on the other hand almost out of what seems like fear that the tone of the debate may be changing, have now re-hashed all the same things again whilst you’re busy hiding behind the premise that you’re protecting the fallen and the innocent.

This is now not possible to take seriously when in the face of people’s experiences you keep diminishing what they have to say. You clearly don’t want those who’ve been hurt by the BKs to not be heard and yet you yourself are not listening to others. Proof of this is that your first response to Paula seemed as if you may be listening as your response to her was the most measured of your responses so far (which offered hope of a change in direction). But it’s clear for everyone to see that when she came back again, trying to create an atmosphere of peace and love you again selectively quoted what she was saying because you were not hearing the message you wanted to hear.

I’m not answering your questions because you’ve asked me - because the question I ask of you is ‘who are you?’ What gives you the right whilst hiding yourself away to act in such punitive and destructive ways – demanding answers from others? I’m answering these questions for those who are actually listening ... I am an academic, running a large training organization. I’m not making money in the way that you imply. I operate within the professional codes that I’m governed by. I have no relationship to the BKs; in fact I’m agnostic (not that I think that’s anybody’s business – one’s faith is a matter for the individual and their conscience).

Easton’s religious/spiritual background as it happens is a matter we have discussed but in the way that one might discuss what was in the news that morning or ‘how are the children’ ... he certainly never tried to engage me in anything. And even though you’ve described him as a guru he certainly never used all this influence and manipulation you’ve bestowed upon him with me, my team or the very vulnerable people we work with – who’d be a brilliant target audience ... because after 15 years this would undoubtedly have come to my attention many times and I would have acted accordingly. Once again, I’m sure you’ll not be quoting any of this unless you can find a way to misrepresent it. Your patterns and methods are completely transparent because like a magician you create a smoke-screen to distract everyone by telling us what your motivations are and then in your very next statement you betray those intentions.

As an educator, having worked in several colleges and universities you quickly learn that the best way to get any message across is to create an atmosphere of respect. In such an atmosphere there is mutual growth and understanding. You have done the complete opposite, which is why it now seems to me that it is really only you beating this drum in the way that you are beating it. I think those of us who have come and defended Reach’s reputation should now not bother making any further points because those who are listening will have heard what has been said and as you are now this lone voice blowing in the wind I think we should all ignore you. I think it’s quite telling that you’ve posted on this forum over 6,000 times, which tells me this is your full-time job ... because how on earth could you fit anything else in?

So I say again ‘who are you?’ Why should anybody here be answering your questions when you insist on remaining hidden?

You made reference in your last posting directed at Easton that he attacked an ex-client in a public forum and I have read back through the postings since his initial entry and could not find what you are talking about. The only thing I could find is ...

“As for those examples given where individuals have had weird experiences of someone trying to persuade them to look at a point of light and become a vegetarian I simply cannot comment, this is not something I have ever done or would ever do. Although I am the Director of Reach and proud to be so, I cannot control every conversation and interaction someone has with another, but given, as I have said, nearly all our practitioners have no knowledge of or interest in Raja Yoga, these accounts make no sense to me and if I were to find anyone engaging in such practices, their association to the organisation would be terminated; we are not interested in brain washing. “

... so I have no idea why you keep making reference to this. And the one person you make reference to complaining, once again from what I can see, didn’t have anything to do with Easton. That doesn’t mean their complaint shouldn’t be taken seriously but your repeated use of it to make a point again discredits your position because you’re not even using the example with sensitivity and compassion. You’re hurling it like a stone. No wonder Easton is refusing to enter into a dialogue here. This is a monologue, driven by you. I think Paula, Deniese Wilson, Bright Spark, Smiley50 etc. have all tried to be heard but no matter what they’ve said you’ve found a way to diminish or rubbish it.

My final message is for the reasonable members of this forum ... If you have a legitimate grievance and given some of the things I’ve read you do, then this is not the way to get your message heard. You’ll be alienating the very people who’d naturally have sympathy for you. The Reach Approach is clearly not a ‘con’ despite ex-l’s protestations. No matter what anyone else says, s/he’s going to continue pursuing his/her personal vendetta ... I hope the reasonable amongst you will fight the battles you need to fight in the arenas you need to fight them. But please do that with an attitude of peace and diplomacy so that you are actually heard. And I sincerely hope you win your battle. Let justice be done. (ex-l: If you are going to quote me, this paragraph is the most important thing I’ve said).

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post02 Mar 2012

Well said orbit. You have encapsulated everything I was going to say. Thank you for such a balanced response.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post02 Mar 2012

Balanced? ... Pass me the bottle please.

Ethically, for its own sake, I think Reach should either disassociate itself from all the cultic relationships or, at the very least, it should make them clear.

The Brahma Kumaris have a specific strategy of working through seemingly neutral or even non-BKs others and the public should be protected from this.
Orbit wrote:The Reach Approach is clearly not a ‘con’ despite ex-l’s protestations.

For the record, I did not post the title "Is the Reach Approach a BK related con?". This topic was merged from two others sometime ago.In the beginning, I asked the simple, fair question of what Enigma/Reach's relation was with the BKWSU. The question at the top of this topic is not ...

    "Is the Reach Approach a con?" - which is what I think his Defence Team are reacting against.
It was ...

    "Is the Reach Approach ... a BK related con?"

I would happily stand up in court ... and be able to prove ... how the 'Brahma Kumari Leadership' has abused their position of 'undue influence' and carried out a confidence trick on a global scale. It has benefited them financially to a vast degree. They have a habit of revision, deception, falsehood and hiding the failed predictions of the 'End of the World' their god spirit and mediums have made.

The Brahma Kumaris have stolen many lives, destroyed many careers and families, and taken years away from individuals by engaging others in their collective madness ... one which for its first 18 years had them believing their spirit medium Kripalani was actually God himself and the author of the Hindu Bible. It had the dwindling community of adherents believe the world was going to end in WWII, 1950, 1976, mid-1980s, Year 2000 ... all now hidden from newcomers.

Despite Enigma's and his Defence League's desire to bury this topic with 'style over substance' ... rather than just engage in discussion and answer simple straightforward questions ... the answers which have appear to emerged ... relative to our interest ... are that:

    a) Enigma has had a long term BK involvement ... to some degree (we don't know how much yet, he won't say)
    b) there are 3 individuals with some degree of associating to the BKWSU involved (we don't know how much yet, he won't say)
    c) they have provided therapeutic services to the Brahma Kumari community/exiting Brahma Kumaris on an either commercial or non-commercial basis
    d) there is some minor or tangential connection to his background with BKWSU ... e.g. in instances such as the logo, referrals to BK retreat centers and other BK related businesses
enigma wrote:I should point out that I am not ashamed of my past association with the Brahma Kumaris as there is much that I have learned from that path, nor do I have any anger or regrets.

To be honest, my interest in Reach is so slim that, despite accusations we are "stopping his work", I have not even been back to his e-commerce website or made any enquiries at all. If I need to know if Enigma was still a BK at a local center in the UK, all it will take is a couple telephone calls. I did not bother as it was not important. Someone else provided all the information we needed.

Who am I? The Jeremy Paxman of the Brahma Kumari world it seems ...



You see ... it seems we 'raise issues' for the BK leadership and some of their followers. They have had a history of ganging up, attacking and dumping crap on us for focusing attention of their 'shadow'. But as they have covered up child sex abuse and undoubtably led to individuals' suicides, we will continue to do so.

When we started my research project ... I provide information to academics in the field ... I was neutral to the BKs. I thought they were one of the better religions. Like every one else, I have been conned by their PR spin. The more that emerged, and the more public we were with our discussion of it, the more hostile they became. You as a therapist will understand that dynamic.

My interest in academic. I have never done a thing physically to stop the BKs nor any BK related business. If I was to look at Reach, what I would be interested in is Enigma relationship with the BKWSU leadership, how they reacted to him and it, how he reconciles his faith, or ex-faith with his non-BK understanding, and how he sees Brahma Kumarism from his new found, non-BK position.

That is all very fine and high-minded. He, and you, as psychotherapists of a sort ... allegedly ... should immediately see and understand the value of it. Although I understand it falls more into the realms of other disciplines, many individuals are negatively effected by cults and it is not a very well studied area. There is a great demand for ex-cult and post-cult therapy. Society as a whole needs to understand the cultic experience better.
Orbit wrote:You made reference in your last posting directed at Easton that he attacked an ex-client in a public forum and I have read back through the postings since his initial entry and could not find what you are talking about.

Yes, the words which I picked out and shock me were ...
Engima wrote:short-sighted ... deluded ... desperate ... damaged ... etc etc etc

Remember, I am not the ex-client.

Are there "Brahma Kumari related confidence tricks" ... heavens yes. Their god spirit and leaders encourages them to do so. They are constantly erecting what we call "service fronts", and presenting themselves as what they are not to fool non-adherents ... starting with their very name "... University".

At the time Reach came up on the radar, we had been looking at a more recent development of spin-off/BK related businesses such as Relax Kids, Relax 7 or Bliss. BKs/ex-BKs making money out the BK community and turning what they had taken from Brahma Kumarism into a business. You would not understand the significance of this because from your point of view, business is fair and good. But from within the BK paradigm, it was strictly against the rules.

Do I agree a 5/6 bedroom property is "big"? Yes, actually I do. It is highly unusual for a BK to be successful. They are encouraged to give over their properties, and all of their money, to the religion ... and damaged their personal life and professional advancement working for the religion for free.

That is why we are interested in ethical alternatives and post-BK growth.

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post02 Mar 2012

You really are a poisonous little fellow aren't You ex-l? "Pass me the bottle"? You arrogant little sod.

Several times answers have been presented to you, and each time you choose to ignore them. Label us a "defence league" if you like, I am sure it satisfies the paranoid nature of your argument. I have never met any of the others who have leapt to Easton's defence, nor have I been asked to contribute. If you are the Jeremy Paxman of the board, then perhaps you are as arrogant and full of it as he is, it certainly seems so.

Your little snidey comments about "e-commerce websites" and "5/6 bedroom houses" are just pathetic. Easton stated in a previous post that he has no connection to the BK, yet you still make overt references to him as a BK, stating that you could check with "a couple of phone calls" but did not because "it is not important". is not important? It's the entire basis of this thread, your allegations, your slander and defamation! You are utterly deluded, and change your tune to fit whatever song you wish to sing.

Grow up, listen and learn. Not everything is a front for something else, not everybody who espouses belief in a holistic approach to life, to inner light, to self reliance and personal growth is a brainwashing ex-cult member. You obviously have terrible trust issues to do with your experiences with the BK, but you are attempting to destroy the good work and reputation of a man and an organisation which does more good than you will ever do sat behind your PC spreading poison and lies. In doing so you risk undermining the recovery of hundreds of people who know nothing of the BK, who never wanted to, and don't need to.

Another thing, calling people "psychotherapists - allegedly" is crass. You belittle your own argument with such pettiness. Orbit stated the nature and accreditation of their business, and vouched for the accreditation of Easton, as have I. Again, grow up.

Oh, and for goodness sake, drop the bloody thing about the logo. Easton dealt with that in his first message, I've heard of the kid who designed it and seen the original drawing - you really are unhinged if you continue to believe it is sinister.

To other, more rational and less paranoid, members of this board, I apologise for what may be considered an aggressive tone, I know that part of ex-l's raison d'être is to cause such a rush of negative emotion as to invite conflict, and yes, I have bitten. I cannot help it I am afraid for the reasons I stated previously.

My ongoing recovery is too important to be being undermined by such a petty individual. Apologies to all.

paula

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post02 Mar 2012

This is most likely my final post, as my main concern in life is to help the most vulnerable in the best way I can, thank you orbit for being able to see that, I was "absolutely coming from a place of peace and love" ... thank you all.

This is for ex-l. It seems to me that your main concern is, 'Is the Reach Approach a BK related con?" ---- WITH ALL MY HEART I CAN TELL YOU IT is not. As I've said, I have met Easton and his sincerity to help and human kindness goes beyond words ... I am also having therapy from a female counsellor at Reach, again her sincerity to genuinely help, her warmth and the lengths she goes to to support, are only what can be described as impeccable, but what comes across from having an experience of both these people is their transparency. If you'd have had the experience of meeting these people, you would know without a shadow of a doubt the answer to your question.

I can also see from the passion and anger in some of your words, that you clearly have a lot of knowledge around the BK, and its failings, tho forgive me as failings I am sure is not a strong enough word for what you or those you speak of have injured.

I am sure there's a lot of truth in what you speak of in reference to the BKs. I, myself, have noticed things I haven't been comfortable with, but please before you quote me on that, please try and understand what I am about to say ...

I have been to BK meetings, I have been to the Catholic Church, Buddhist centres, etc etc. I have seen good and bad in all, especially issues around abuse and control and because of what I've seen and experienced. I have a lot of anger and pain that I too need to work on, so I know where your coming from.

As I've said I am a qualified counsellor tho' not practicing at present, but I ask you, would you be asking the same questions and demanding the same answers of me, as you are of Easton, if I was a practicing Catholic? Would my personal beliefs have any thing to do with the integrity of my work? After all the Catholic religion has a lot to answer for. And, by the way, I am not Catholic, not that it's anyone's business.

What I am trying to say is, "DOES IT MATTER WHAT EASTON'S PERSONAL BELIEFS ARE?", AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, "IS IT ANYONE'S BUSINESS?"

It's what we take from our experiences in life that matters. I know you're angry, I am angry and hurt too at different things but I cannot demand that someone whose working as, say, a Catholic counsellor bears their all to me, even if I felt it would bring to light terrible things that happened, need to be paid for, and put a stop too.

My Brother has gone. It is my promise to him that I will always let those I love and care about know how much they mean to me, and that I will spread as much love and peace as I can ... I wish you love and peace of mind, and if you genuinely want to help those who desperately need it, then please do it with LOVE.

FOR ALL THOSE WHO MAY FALL UPON THIS SITE, AS I DID, I CAN ONLY ASSURE YOU FROM MY HEART, THAT REACH IS A REPUTABLE ORGANISATION AND, IF IT WASN'T FOR THEM, AMONGST A COUPLE OF OTHER PEOPLE I WOULDN'T BE HERE NOW ... THAT'S HOW I KNOW.

ex-l and all, I wish nothing more than sincere love and peace. Life is too short. The only real answer to anything is love, when we step back and look in, the only answer there ever really was, was LOVE XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post03 Mar 2012

Love alone is not enough ... you need truth too.

If you have had abusive experiences with the Church, then you know the damaging culture of secrecy and denial.
paula wrote:I ask you, would you be asking the same questions and demanding the same answers of me, as you are of Easton, if I was a practicing Catholic?

    Paula, how did end up going to the Brahma Kumari meeting/retreat?

    Did someone at Reach recommend you ... a client of Reach ... to go?

(I believe Enigma did say above that they have had "good feedback" from clients recommended to the Brahma Kumaris. The BKs call it ... "planting seeds", and I can explain how it works from their point of view).

Would we be asking the same questions of Easton if he was a practicing Catholic? No. We specialize in the Brahma Kumaris. The Brahma Kumaris are of a different order than the Roman Catholics.

The Brahma Kumaris are involved in 'thought reform', hypnotic-like trance practises and unhealthy degrees of control over their followers. Where an individual is carrying on a business with vulnerable individuals in a very closely related sphere, then any crossovers between Brahma Kumarism and their professional work would concern us.

I don't believe you are angry or hateful at all, Paula, but I do think the others Reach people have been. I just wish they would stop projecting it on me. As I write, I promise you, I am sitting back comfortably on a couch, completely peaceful and relaxed.

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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post03 Mar 2012

Bright Spark wrote:Easton stated in a previous post that he has no connection to the BK

No, he did not say that.

He said "Reach is not affiliated to the BKWSU".

That is an entirely different statement. Reach is not "affiliated" to the BKWSU, but it is "related".

Enigma confirmed a 20 year plus involvement with the Brahma Kumaris, that 3 other BK/ex-BK/half-BKs work with him, his website has recommendations to other BK related businesses/fronts ... but then he refused to say whether he was still involved or believed in what they teach.

If he was smart, he would take the opportunity to do good PR for himself and his services, e.g.

    talk intelligently about his BK experience,
    the problems he has experienced within the BKWSU,
    the problems within the BKWSU and with individual's experience of the BKWSU, and
    how he would propose overcoming or resolving them.

From our knowledge of the movement, it could be possible to propose that to some degree Reach did developed out of, or benefited from, his BK involvement (parts of it have similarities to other "BK service", and there are obvious BK associations) but to say that, we would have to know more about the history of the organization.

It has obviously gone beyond what the BKs teach but it does seem to be fulfilling the purpose of BK service ... of passing souls back to the mothership to be further influenced, or sold BK related goods/services, e.g. retreats etc.

And for you to judge whether that comment is fair or not, you would have to know more about the Brahma Kumaris and how they work ... which we are happy to tell you.

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Orbit

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post03 Mar 2012

Very deep sigh ... Who are you trying to kid? You are not interested in the truth at all! The longer this goes on the more it is clear that you are an attention seeker who thrives on confrontation. You love the thrill of the cut and thrust. In fact every time it looks like this debate might turn more positive, you panic and throw more oil on the fire because you don’t want the direction of this discussion to change ... what would you do then?

You talk about some of the Reach people (as you describe them) being hateful and projecting that onto you. This is the most ludicrous of your statements so far. The person who has been the most consistently provocative and hateful in this thread is you! But because your ego is so enormous you won’t be able to see that. In fact, you can’t afford to because if you did your whole identity would fall away. You need this aggressive persona and all the things you claim to fight for have become convenient excuses behind which to hide.

You keep rehashing the same stuff again and again, creating a smokescreen of waffle and anger, dressed up as injustice, hoping no one will notice the bitterness of your position. As you’re obviously in the media, Jeremy, you will no doubt be familiar with the word ‘factoid’. This is when a rumour or an idea is said repeatedly to such an extent that people start believing it’s a fact! This is obviously your specialism and how you wear people down with your ideology. Thankfully the people who’ve come on this forum to speak of their experience with Reach clearly all have their own minds.... something you’re not used to. You are unquestionably the guru, demanding obedience from your following, not allowing opinions other than those that align themselves to yours. Which is why you’re reacting as if you’re under attack when you started the attacking!! All your accusations show who you really are. I found the courage to speak because of Bright Spark and the others who came forward but now it’s time to gracefully retreat because you are clearly looking for confrontation. Your contradictory rhetoric remains venomous. You obviously thrive on it. Your life must be sad and empty if this is what you spend your time doing. You claim to have found peace; if this is what peace looks like we all need to run for the hills!

I will not be wasting my time commenting on this drivel any more. As I said, YOU’RE NOT INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH. Despite the experiences of those who’ve shared their thoughts and feelings, you keep finding different ways to rubbish them and it’s obvious the only way that’s going to change is if we all begin to agree with you!! You are looking for compliance, not discussion as you keep stating.

I think to compare yourself with Jeremy Paxman is disingenuous. As I said previously, you’re more like the politician who selectively quotes others (sound bites) to embroider your own arguments. The only questions I asked you in my posting were deflected with lame answers and yet you demand that other people answer your questions. Who do you think you are? Why does anybody owe you an explanation? I think your obsession with your fight has given you a ‘God complex’... or is it a deity complex? Why did you use Hindu Gods to make the point that you’re peaceful and comfortable on your couch? Where there’s clearly a woman washing your feet! I’m presuming you’re the man on the couch.... very odd imagery for one who claims to be interested in truth and justice. This image alone discredits you and what you’re saying. Again your actions have unveiled you. But given your nature you aren’t going to have the humility to alter your position so I will end in the way I ended my last post ...

I had asked you to quote the most important thing in my last message but predictably you didn’t because it didn’t serve your cause. I’m going to post it myself as my parting gift ...

My final message is for the reasonable members of this forum ... If you have a legitimate grievance and given some of the things I’ve read you do, then this is not the way to get your message heard. You’ll be alienating the very people who’d naturally have sympathy for you. The Reach Approach is clearly not a ‘con’ despite ex-l’s protestations. No matter what anyone else says, s/he’s going to continue pursuing his/her personal vendetta ... I hope the reasonable amongst you will fight the battles you need to fight in the arenas you need to fight them. But please do that with an attitude of peace and diplomacy so that you are actually heard. And I sincerely hope you win your battle. Let justice be done.

Anyone who’s followed this thread I think will conclude that this is no longer about the agenda initially put forward. There is the smell of something foul, and I urge you all to avoid it! I do hope Easton maintains his silence because he certainly owes no one here an explanation and if the slanderous and defamatory comments continue, I hope he will pursue legal action.

p.s. I've just seen your inclusion of presumably the BK image against the Reach logo ... wow! unbelievable proof ... what was I thinking? I now am willing to follow you, my guru ... tell me what to think next ...
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Mr Green

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post03 Mar 2012

orbit, I must say your tone is a bit unpleasant, a little bit aggressive, and you don't need to make pleas to members of this forum. We are ex-bks, we know who we are, we don't need your guidance. Some of us were 10, 15, 20 years in Gyan. We've been in and now we're out. We've survived cultism, we collectively are very experienced. This web-site has been very effective in helping others, you should read more of it than just this little thread, the site is vast and full of experiences and information. A lot of work has gone into it and it is valuable to many people.

You might not like the way ex-l expresses himself but some points he makes seem reasonable, why doesn't Enigma answer the questions? What's the big deal?

I think you all need to calm down a bit and think about what is important and what is not

It does appear that Reach members are exposed to the BKs. I don't know if you really realise how dangerous they are. The BKs are a multi-layered organisation with inner circles inside circles. You are only exposed to deeper circles once you are deemed accepting enough, i.e. your resistance and questioning have been stiffled enough so you actually feel privileged to be there.

Love
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Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post03 Mar 2012

My god, ex-l, you're right, the logo, I cannot believe my eyes. Thank you for putting me straight with your obviously rhetorical question. Coincidence? YES!

I'll stop using BP garages as well, bit suss that sun motif they use. Oh, and I'll definitely not go to the local baptist church, they use a sun logo too, they must all be BKs, oh god - they're everywhere! WHAT AM I GOING TO DO?

What I am going to do is refrain from posting anymore. I am sure that this forum is of benefit to BKs, to their recovery and well being, but the bile being spouted here about an organisation which does not deserve it is appalling. You really are risking the future of the whole forum with this spiteful nonsense. Thanks for all the reasoned contributions, but seriously, ex-l, chilled out you may be, but I've had more coherent and well argued debates with my cat.
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Mr Green

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post03 Mar 2012

I've just looked at the Reach site, on this page is a direct link to the BKs website?

http://www.thereachapproach.co.uk/heali ... gam-italy/
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post03 Mar 2012

Yes, there are a number of direct links to the BKWSU and the logo is a direct mnemonic reference to BK Shiva Baba images.
Orbit wrote:The Reach Approach is clearly not a ‘con’ despite ex-l’s protestations.

I have never said "Reach Approach is clearly a con" (... repeat: I did not ask the initial question at the top of this topic). There are obviously parts of the operation which have other sources, but parts which definitely crossover into the BK realm.

There is an easy way resolve this. If Enigma is a reputable therapist, they will be a member of a governing, professional body.

If you tell me what it is ... I think someone did above ... I will write to them providing the evidence we have about the Brahma Kumaris and ask their advice on whether it is ethical to recommend clients to them.

Then we wait for their response and abide by it.

As Mr Green writes, the way the BKs work is 'circles within circles':

    a) You meet a BK and they "take the pulse" - that is to say, they look for signs to assess, or claim to experience a "touching" from God, regarding whether you are an likely convert or not.
    b) Then you are invited to a swish public program or impressive retreat center where you listen to some abstract topic, e.g. Relax Kids, Spirituality for Men, Tao of the Traveller etc, and are introduced to a vague level of meditation - then they or a more senior BK will "take the pulse" again.
    c) You are given a taste of their meditation not knowing what it is.
    d) Then you will invited to a more focused introductory course, e.g. Positive Thinking - and another more senior BK will "take the pulse" again. By this time you are starting to see and become comfortable at seeing people dressed in white, images of their guru and hearing their "mantra". You will experience more light trance meditation.
    e) If you pass that test, you are then invited to do what we call, "The Seven Day Course" in which the hard core elements of the religion are introduced, e.g. End of the World, 5,000 Year Cycle, their God etc. This might happen in one course or be split and a more senior BK will "take the pulse" again.
    f) If you pass that and are still keen, then you will be introduced to their *real* teachings, the channeled messages from the spirit entity they say is God of all religions.
    g) Lastly, you are then invited to their daily morning class at 6 am to study with them and be encouraged to get up at 4 am to meditated. By that point you are hooked and high ... but for most people it will only last a short time. They see through it all, and leave.
At each level, more and more people will drop away. A few might stick at one level. And these days at least they might manage to sell them some products before they quit. A couple of you would fail immediate which is why, I guess, you have not been asked and cannot see what is going on.

The Brahma Kumaris will keep some people, e.g. useful "important people" and VIPs etc, from knowing what their true beliefs and purpose are ... but keep them in association so as to act as an attractive front or to give credibility. Others they will give a position in one of their front organizations.

They are unusual for a Hinduistic group in that they are so evangelical about catching new members but, by now, they do it in a very discrete and polished manner. In my opinion, the only good thing one learns from the BKs are marketing and organization skills, the bad habit one learns is very deep lying ... lying to the point of becoming like a double agent.

You see this is many of their events where BKs might be presented as non-BKs or professionals, the audience not being told they are all part of the BK machine and in their front organizations.

    Do you think that is a fair summary, Mr Green? (again, we are talking about the BKs here).
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Mr Green

ex-BK

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post03 Mar 2012

Yes that is a very simple and clear summary of how the BKs work their recruitment

Orbit

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post03 Mar 2012

Dear Mr. Green

Sorry that you think my tone is unpleasant and a little bit aggressive. It’s a shame you’re unable to see that if I am guilty of that then this is ex-l’s position too. No one has hurled around more negativity or aggression than him/her. So I’m certainly not apologizing for standing my ground. I have no issue with the legitimacy of this forum and what it’s trying to do and as I’m not even sure if God exists I’m certainly not interested in endorsing the activities of the BKs. If as you say they are guilty of the crimes you’ve listed, then that’s where your efforts should be focused. I have looked around the rest of the forum and in no way want to undermine what’s happening here. But just as you have every right to stand up for what you’re doing, I have every right to stand up for something where I believe in its integrity and conscience.

I’m still baffled as to why what Easton's position is is so critical to all of you. That is a matter for him and his conscience. What’s it got to do with anyone else? I do not feel obligated to tell anyone about my leanings, religious, spiritual or otherwise. The reference to us all calming down, I think you’re making that to the wrong person(s). The tone of this has changed because of the relentlessness of the same point being made again and again, indicating there is actually no room for anyone else’s observation or experience.

The tenuous links being made, as I said previously, keep diminishing your real purpose. You posted a link to the Reach website and based on that premise he must have dealings with every organization listed, such as: the Skyros Retreat Centre, Greece, Corijo Romero, Spain, Ray’s Place, Tenerife, Taraloka , Welsh Border and I could go on. Some of these are of a religious denomination such as Buddhism, others have no religious leaning. So posting a link to a BK retreat facility which is outnumbered by hundreds of other links to just about everything imaginable, is proof of nothing other than a continued attempt to find a link where you can.

I am not suggesting you should endorse Reach's work; I am actually suggesting that you should leave it to do what it is doing. The more you go round the site the more you can see links to all kinds of things that relate in no way to BKism, or for that matter to any religion. In fact, there's more non-religious material on there than anything else. This is why this debate has become unnecessarily heated. Reach has declared itself on its opening page to the site, that this is a library of resources and information, clearly leaving people like any other library to go in and make up their minds what they’re interested in or not and therefore pursue those things that appeal and disregard those things that do not. Just as you are trying to protect those who have been hurt, which sounds perfectly reasonable to me, the people who’ve been brave enough to comment here are feeling hurt that they have benefited from this organization and you seek to undermine them when all the people who’ve come forward their lives have been saved or added to in some way.

I have no dispute with you and as I said in my last posting, where you have legitimate concerns I wish you well in the righting of those. Peace and love to you too.

The way ex-l describes how BKism indoctrinates individuals without them knowing, Easton has had nearly 16 years to do that not just with me personally but my team, and the often vulnerable students we work with, and none of the things listed have ever happened or been hinted at. If they had been I certainly wouldn’t have tolerated that and if they’d happened with any of the students I can assure you our organization would have taken action against Reach and terminated our contract. This is why I’ve come and expressed my feelings as passionately as I have because as Bright Spark put beautifully ... the evidence of Logos with sunrises or sparks are to be found everywhere. So what are we to believe? The BKs are behind all of that too? Please understand I wish you well with your cause but not with this one because it’s misplaced.

ex-l you said you didn’t raise the initial question Is The Reach Approach A BK related con? At the beginning of this thread and that you have not actually used those terms. If you re-read your postings, you’ve said everything but that. I accept you didn’t start it ... do you now have the ability and willingness to stop it? Because this is going nowhere. I think it’s time to call a truce?
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Mr Green

ex-BK

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post03 Mar 2012

Hi Orbit

Thanks for your reply I enjoyed reading it. Easton's position is not really important to me, I truely wish him well.

My beef is with the BKs.
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