Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post07 Mar 2012

Maria ...

Lucky you. Unfortunately others were not so lucky ... which is why we are seeking clarification which we have not yet received.

Did he have a Shiv Baba trance light on the wall when you attended the therapy rooms?

I am sorry but, as far as I am concerned, no end of highly emotional, lengthy testimonies will distract from the need for simple clarification.

No one is saying Enigma is a "evil". Most BKs come across like perfectly kind and reason people most of the time ... but there's no smoke without fire and I tend to believe the reports of Mike26 and others.

They seem perfectly reasonable too.
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starchild

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post07 Mar 2012

Easton clearly has a lot of loyalty from his colleagues and clients which probably means that he is a nice, good person, possibly charismatic too. But, as ex-l points out, unfortunately we do not only need love, we need truth and justice too.

I would expect the clients to be emotional, (which they are), but would have expected the professional colleagues, especially those who have no involvement with BK's to be a bit more impartial and level headed.

THE FACTS ARE: SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS OF ABUSE HAVE BEEN MADE AGAINST THE BRAHMA KUMARIS ORGANISATION.

WE KNOW THAT REACH ARE AWARE OF THIS.

IN THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS FOR RETREAT CENTERS THEY CONTINUE TO INCLUDE BK RETREAT CENTERS WITHOUT WARNING ABOUT THESE ALLEGATIONS OR ASSURANCES THAT THESE ALLEGATIONS HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATED.

ALLEGATIONS OF CHILD SEX ABUSE HAVE BEEN BROUGHT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE BK LEADERSHIP BUT WERE NEVER REPORTED TO ANY CIVIL AUTHORITIES. (I suspect that is a crime).

I do not believe any organization that is offering services to the public can afford to ignore allegations of abuse. As Reach continues to promote BK retreats (among others), they have to be able to stand over what they publish on their own website. And we have every right to question services that are put out on the public domain.

As I am sure any good legal advisor will point out.
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Mr Green

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post07 Mar 2012

There are no slanderous statements made here at all, just questions which aren't answered.

Reach may well be fantastic, whatever it is ... principally a business as far as I can see.

But the BKs are a cult and if Reach enables people to walk the path of bkism then they should be aware of what they are potentionally letting other in for.

I was suicidal when I found the BKs and they grabbed me with open arms. I was loved and 'helped' and once the Honeymoon Period (an actual BK term) had worn off, I found I had lost my family friends and all my worldly possessions as well as the ability to interact normally with other human beings. I managed not to take my life upon exiting, despite being slandered by the BKs, and I still am as far as I am aware.

The BKs are dangerous and people should be warned against going there, not given casual links and recomendations to help them go there.

Please wake up.

Questions are not statements!

If you feel for me then help us stop it happening to others, get us some straight answers.
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paula

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post07 Mar 2012

ABUSE OF ANY KIND IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN. BUT CHILD ABUSE IS THE MOST EVIL OF ALL CRIMES,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And it really sickens me to the stomach, that BK headquarters have known about it and yet never officially reported it, so starchild I am 100% with you on that.

But slandering the reputation of Easton and Reach, just is not the way to help anyone ... you're not protecting people, all you're doing is risking those who are desperately dealing with the effects of abuse from coming forward and receiving the help that Reach would so openly give.

Also by continuing with the defamation of Easton's character and Reach's integrity and ethics, you're risking legal action and this site being closed down, doesn't that go against the very core of what your original intention was ... which from what I understood was to help make the public aware of the dangers of the BKs, or was it ????

The only reason for my posting is, I am struggling immensely my self at present, and my therapist, who is a member of Reach, is of unbelievable support, without which I could so easily become another Ranjana Patel or her Brother or my Brother ... there are people out their in desperate need of help. I've shared this in the hope that you can see the importance of the work they do, for which I am truly grateful ...

So please just let be, allow Reach to help those who so desperately need it, and stop the consistent harassment, and use this forum to help the general public to have a better and more truthful insight and understanding of what BKs are really about.

Again I just feel so deeply for those who have been abused, and that's where my thoughts are, theres been too much damage done.

As I've said in previous posts, love is the only thing that ever really heals, the only way forward is through love and respect. I hope you can look in your heart and find that.

Maria, I just want to say I felt humbled and privileged to read your post, and I am so glad you came through the other side.

Love and respect to all. mr green, I really understand and respect your concerns, but I can only speak of my own experience, with love.
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Enigma

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post07 Mar 2012

Dear Admin

Thank you for responding so promptly. My request was for this thread to be removed rather than renamed because the idea that Reach is a front for the BKs is totally and utterly inaccurate and is of itself slanderous and defamatory. And despite my attempts to answer the questions as honestly as I can, it has become clear that this is a personal crusade against me and the work of Reach. And no amount of clarification seems to suffice.

The original question posted by ex-l at the beginning of this thread may have carried some on-going legitimacy if I hadn’t made it clear time and time again that I AM NOT PART OF THE BK MOVEMENT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. AND REACH IS NOT AFFILIATED TO BKWSU IN ANY FORM EITHER. IN FACT, I’VE NOT BEEN TO A BK CENTRE IN THE LAST 10 YEARS (not that that actually has anything to do with anyone).

The issue of the logo is a lame one, given that I can provide you with many logos with a similar presentation. So what does that prove? It was cited in an earlier posting that BP has a star-like logo; there’s a large insurance company as well; there’s a prominent Baptist Church too and there is also a network of old people’s homes with something similar. Are all these organizations to be considered dubious in their activities because the logos bear some resemblance to Shiv Baba? So, if it hadn’t been made clear that the logo was designed by a child (as indeed the name Reach also came from an 11 year old child and was picked as our preferred option), then I could understand this insistence of making a connection between the two logos where none actually exists. So there is no case to answer.

The issue of allegations of abuse carried out by the BKWSU has nothing to do with me and this organization and if I were to act on every allegation I’d heard I would be disassociating myself from other organizations and disciplines where such crimes have allegedly happened, including counselling and psychotherapy because there have been some horrendous examples of abuse in this field too. However it’s important that we deal in evidence and facts and I would suggest where you have evidence of such abuse you report it to the appropriate authorities. Because if I had such evidence I would certainly be reporting it to the appropriate authorities... but I would not be doing that on allegations alone because that’s the same as what’s being done here to me. Where it has been proven that the alleged crimes have taken place, I’m more than happy to act on that. But just as this feels like it has turned into a witch-hunt of me, I’m not joining any witch-hunt in relation to anyone else.

The idea that there’s no smoke without fire is a really unhelpful reference because history is littered with literally thousands of individuals who’ve been hung, burnt and crucified for crimes they didn’t commit. So such remarks are unhelpful because if something is considered to be a fact because it’s repeated often enough then such miscarriages of justice will continue.

I should point out that I’m not discrediting this forum or what it is doing however because of 2 or 3 examples (which actually have nothing to do with me) the last 22 years of work are being dragged through the mud and I’m certainly not going to stand by and let that happen.

And so, dear Admin, I respectfully ask that this thread be removed and the contributors take their evidence to the appropriate authorities. I would be more than happy to support anyone in pursuing justice where injustice can be proven but I won’t be bullied into doing something because 2 or 3 people are ‘convinced’ I’m guilty of something that I’m not. I’m certainly not going to be tried in this court for something I’ve not done.... would you?

As for Mike26’s posting, I said in my very first entry that I have never once done what was suggested nor has anything like this ever taken place in my house (as was insinuated). But since he says he has the names of those people who have, please ask Mike26 to forward those names to me. Because where such transgressions have occurred I can assure you those individuals’ connections with Reach would be terminated with immediate effect and their unethical practices reported to BACP. I do not believe in the promotion of any single ideology or philosophy. Experience has taught me that the truth is found in a multitude of places and that synergy is the answer. So, if Mike26 wants to contact me directly I would be happy to deal with his original posting.

As for your own constitution and rules, I’m happy if necessary to itemize the slanderous and defamatory remarks that have consistently been made through this thread that have no basis in fact.... which is why I’m asking for this thread to be removed on the basis that it contravenes your own terms and conditions for posting. I think I have gone way beyond what is required of anyone to demonstrate my position so I hope my request will be honoured.

Kind regards

Easton Hamilton
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paula

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post08 Mar 2012

Dear Admin

I feel Easton's response is completely sincere and genuine, he's once again answered all the questions that have been put his way, he's stated quite clearly that those who do have evidence of such abuse should REPORT it to the relevant authorities, also stating that if he had such evidence he would definitely report it ... and I, personally, have never doubted that being his truth. He also stated he would be happy to support anyone seeking justice where injustice as been proven, which shows the compassion, and genuineness of his heart. However, he does state very clearly that he wont be doing it on allegations alone, and only deals in evidence and facts ... something I myself strongly agree with. As for Mike 26's postings, Easton as stated clearly that if he contacts him directly, with the details of those dealing in such transgressions, he will make sure that there connections with Reach are terminated, and their unethical practices are reported to the B.A.C.P.

I really hope the people involved in this, who have such evidence, information etc are able to contact Easton directly, and between all, can move forward in a way that benefits and helps those who most need it.

You see what I haven't shared is, it's been through my work with Reach that I HAVEN'T fallen into the arms of the BK family. As Mr Green, I too have been desperately low and close to the edge, especially since the loss of my Brother, and could have so easily taken off and surrenderd myself to the BKs. So I fully understand where your coming from. They could of filled the emptiness and lonliness in me that so despatley wanted to belong and be loved !!!

However, it's through the ongoing work with my therapist, who I have to say, is the most genuine person I have ever met, and whom if it hadn't been for, I wouldn't be here now, and I am not saying there haven't been a couple of other people who have significantly helped me because there have, but she has been there throughout, never giving up on me, showing me nothing but a genuine love warmth and respect, and allways, allways helping me to find my own way, ITS BEEN THROUGH MY WORK WITH MY THERAPIST, that i have been able , to look at things, and find the courage to stand alone an start being true to myself and my own believes....

before i finish i have to say, ime not anti b,k ,ime not anti anything or anyone, never have been never will be , as i very strongley believe theres good and bad in all, and in Eastons words i too deal in evidence and facts, i from what time i have spent with b,ks which as been relatively short, have learnt mostly positive things around meditation etc and met some very spiritual people who i believe are looking for the same peace we all look for , however i have chosen to STAND ALONE SO TOO SPEAK and find my own path, as i feel at this time its the safest way for me '' i thank you for this forum because it has helped me to get a more informed perspective on everything to do with b,ks both good and bad, it as also given me the opertunitey to speak my truth about Easton and the reach approach,

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SUFFERD ABUSE OF ANY KIND, THOSE WHO ARE LOST OR THOSE WHO JUST NEED SOME SUPPORT THE THERAPIST I FOUND IN REACH HAS HELPED ME AND CONTINUES TO HELP ME IN WAYS THAT GOES BEYOND WORDS.

love and respect to all, Mr Green, i hope Eastons answers have helped you, and ime so glad you didnt take your own life, i really am, i wish you well with love
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Mr Green

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post08 Mar 2012

Thanks for your post Easton,

As for the matter of reporting abuse to the authorities, it would be disrespectful of us to talk directly to the authorities without direct involvement of the victims, who might not want to go through the ordeal of the legal process, our thoughts are with their plight rather than witch hunting anyone.

The only issue left that I am concerned about are the links and references to the BKWSU on the Reach Approach website, surely you wouldn't want someone to end up in a surrendered role in the Yagya through your website.

Paula, obviously you have had some contact with the BKs, they are the most loving helpful kind informative people when you come into contact with you. They will feed you, help you, advise you, whatever you want they will try to give it to you, anything to get you to a center where you are stamped ... I know, I was a surrendered member and fully involved in planning and carrying out service or seva.

I really hope Easton can understand we are trying to protect others here and are not frightened to get at the truth, which seems to be happening now, believe me I have absolutely no interest in the reach approach whatsoever, I just want to protect people from the BKs

It really is not slanderous to pose the question of whether Reach is a BK front or not, you see there are many such front organisations which are truly deceitful, if we made claims and statements to that effect they could be termed as slander, but not asking questions.

At least everyone is starting to calm down a bit now

MrGreen (by the way, I don't need anyone's sympathy, I am way past that now and living a decent fulfilling life, but I do appreciate your sentiments, what is important to me is that no-one else should have to spend the 10 years recovering that I have).
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maria

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post08 Mar 2012

Well said.
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paula

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post08 Mar 2012

Mr Green Thankyou, i understand and respect your concerns for others.

i wont be posting again, i feel ive said my peace and all that i can, and at times shared things that are still very painfull and raw, in a desprate hope that it would help in some way.

for me the only way ime able to live my life, is to really look into my heart an ask myself if my motives and intentions are pure an good, and if they are and they bring no harm to another, and have the qualities of unconditional love, kindness, respect and peace, then i walk the path ive chosen to walk, helping others where i can.....i think thats all that anyone can do, and as been my sincere intention throughout my posts..... i finish with a sincere love and respect for all.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post08 Mar 2012

Paula, Orbit and so on.

Please stop and for one moment see this from a therapist's point of view. If Easton was your client, what advice would you be giving him right now?

    My bet is the first advice would be ... "try talking things through".

I thought that was a far better response from him and I hope true 'discussion' continues. The bottomline is, they say "any press is good press". A case such as this is an excellent way in which to promote one's business ... if it is handled well. The threats, the denial of the connections of the past, the unwillingness to enter into intelligent discussion, and the attacks of his partners/supporters ... and so some degree the exhaustingly long recommendations ... have only made matters worse.

I, personally, could not promote any religion which believes in the imminent and painful death of 7,000,000,000 human beings in order that they (the BKs) alone will inherit a heaven on earth and I wonder how he can justify that?

Like the others have said Paula, think about it logically. Here you are going through all the hell you are, now what the Brahma Kumaris believe is that ...

    a) You will go through exactly the same hell and lose your Brother again in 5,000 years time,
    and
    b) Any minute now the world ... and all your family ... is going to be destroyed by nuclear war and natural disasters so, in essence, your therapy is a waste of time and money.

What the BKs believe is that only by surrendering to Brahma Kumarism can you be saved and earn a spiritual fortune for the next Cycle of Time. Ask Easton if that is true.

In the last few years there has been a tendency for Western BKs to take skills and insights that they learned in the BKWSU and develop such business as "corporate coaches" and so on. For some, it has been a way to recoup careers they lost by being sucked into the BKWSU. For others, it is a way to express themselves in a way that the BKWSU does not allow for the lack of positions to promote gifted BKs to. For Easton, it may well be an expression of genuine compassion for others that he was not able to express within the BK mould.

I suspect, to some degree, it represents the questioning or rejection of the Brahma Kumaris and their beliefs. This is why these are valid questions to raise and a dialogue which Easton has far more to gain from engaging with rather then threatening to destroy.

My advice to him would be to get off his high horse, share his experiences, and speak to us like equals.

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Enigma

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post08 Mar 2012

To All Those Concerned:

Thanks Mr. Green for your post.... I appreciated the balanced tone of your comments. It’s a shame this thread did not begin in this way. I am totally in agreement with you about instances of abuse. They can only ever be reported if those who have been abused are willing to take that journey and having been a survivor of many abuses myself I wouldn’t take anyone down any path they are not ready and willing to take. This is why the allegations made here have been so negative, counterproductive and in some instances hurtful.

The evidence of whether slanderous and defamatory comments have been made is in this thread for all to see. For those who can go back and look objectively, it’s there. I had said to Admin if it was necessary for the removal of this thread for me to itemize them, then I’m happy to do so. I did not make my most recent posting to re-visit all this... my only interest now is to see this thread removed as all issues have been addressed and I went further than this and said if you have names of practitioners guilty of the allegations initially made then please present me with them and I will personally deal with those matters.

As for those of you concerned about links to BKWSU from the Reach website.... I am not anti BK, I’m not anti Christian, anti Buddhist, anti Muslim, anti Hindhu etc. There is not a single religion, school of thought, discipline or tradition that I know of that hasn’t been guilty of terrible crimes and abuses. Every day someone comes through my door having been wounded or damaged by their faiths and beliefs and even by my profession... which is meant to be helping them!

On that basis I could easily be anti everything. My concern is that people make their own decisions and choices, whether they be BKs or not. If you are anti BKs then it’s your job to do what you need to about that (but this is not what I am about) but even you need to do that reasonably. Otherwise the importance of your message will get lost.

We say on the first page of our website to use this resource as a library and every library I know of or have used has things from the most innocent of children’s stories to the most despicable characters in history – people who’ve been responsible for mass culling of life. And so as a library we are presenting information as options that others may want to take.... that is in no way a promotion.

I’m not going to pretend that every BK is mad, negative or unhappy. They have the same problems I’ve seen everywhere else I’ve been. So I’m not, by having a handful of links amongst thousands of resources, sitting here promoting them.

In fact, I could be accused of actually promoting other things that are featured far more frequently on our site such as the role and importance of water, diet and nutrition, epigenetics, kindness and mindfulness to name a few. I’ve openly declared that this is a library and as such it quite rightly contains diversity and that is not going to please everyone... which is true of every other library. I’m not telling anyone here what they should or shouldn’t be doing. Is a library guilty of how a user of its services/resources goes on to behave?

I know BKs who are happy and unhappy. For some it’s clearly a path they wish to take and that is their prerogative and for others like yourselves you have a different experience and point of view, which I totally respect. And what I’m looking for is for the truth of my position to be respected also. What we don’t do is promote any path or denomination.

Anyway I don’t want to reconstruct this discussion because I’ve been accused of not speaking to you like equals, and being on my high horse, which I think is completely unfair when all I’ve done is refuted what’s been laid at my door. I wonder how those making these comments would feel if unfounded allegations were being reported as fact about them ... and put in a public forum for others to sit in judgment on without all the information having been sought.

So let me make this point ... had I at any stage been approached to have an open and mature discussion about these things I’d have been happy and willing but the discussion about me and these events took place in my absence and it would have been easy to approach me to ‘talk it through’. It feels like this has been done back to front ... once the harm has been done, now the discussion is being encouraged.

So please carry on and do your good work and let me carry on and do mine. I never entered this discussion to share my experiences so I do not understand why that question is now even being asked. It seems that every time I answer what’s required of me, a different question is posed. And anyway I wouldn’t do that in this forum when I and my work have been repeatedly been put down without all the facts being gathered first? It’s hardly an invitation I think any reasonable person would seek to take up.

So dear Admin, I hope you will read my previous post and honour my request to remove this thread because the proposition – is Reach a front for the BKs – has well and truly been buried ... it is not, never has been and never will be!

Finally, let me deal with the thing of taking BKism and making it a business ...

I first came into contact with the BKs in the early 80s. I was already a therapist several years before that so I did not ‘steal the silverware’ to make good on it for myself and if you look at the breadth of mine and Reach’s work, it bears witness to my diversity and beliefs because as I said in my very first posting, I’m involved in things that many BKs would ridicule and say have no place at the ‘table of truth’.

So I respectfully await your reply Admin and anticipate your co-operation in this matter.

Kind regards

Easton Hamilton
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admin

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post08 Mar 2012

The site is contacting all parties involved for their comments on the events. The offer still stands to change the title to something more acceptable.

Given the clear evidence of there being continued connections, if no other alternatives are proposed, a neutral title such as "The Reach Approach and the BKWSU" will be used.
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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post08 Mar 2012

The site is contacting all parties involved for their comments on the events. The offer still stands to change the title to something more acceptable.

Given the clear evidence of there being continued connections, if no other alternatives are proposed, a neutral title such as "The Reach Approach and the BKWSU" will be used.

Admin, that seems a pretty unfair solution to me. There's a book about the BKWSU at my local library, can I start a thread titled "Is my local library a BK related con?". Can I furthermore then begin to question the motives of my local librarian, and moot whether the reading groups there are trying to brainwash me? Can I proceed to badmouth the librarian, not listen to his protests, continue to question his motives in a most unpleasant way and then tell him to "get off his high horse" when all the loose talk threatens his livelihood and good reputation?

I think the thread should probably be removed, because it threatens the good work and genuine goodwill of the board. I've done quite a lot of reading round this since I last posted, and its obvious that the board is an invaluable resource to ex members. Please don't jeopardize that through some misplaced witch hunt.
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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post08 Mar 2012

ex-l

please show me the same respect I've shown you. Please do not use my brother's death as a way to score points. The only reason I mentioned it was to show others I understood the pain that such a tragic loss brings, ie Rajana Patel and her brother. I still desperately miss him, so please refrain from using my loss as a way of getting your point across. As I've said, I wont be posting again.

I finish with love.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post09 Mar 2012

Paula,

I am sorry to say this but I find your posts emotionally manipulative and I am not moved by them. All this projection of "love", "pain" and "tragedy" ... it does not work on me and, as a therapist, you should know better.

I am only interested in the facts. And the fact is Easton/Reach promotes Brahma Kumarism to potentially vulnerable people*.

Like it or not, I am pointing out to you the realities of Brahma Kumarism to help you understand why we take such a hardline with them. Perhaps, if you are a therapist, you can dry out a bit and really listen to what we are saying.

There is no negotiation nor interpretation with the Brahma Kumaris. Their "Knowledge" and their purpose is as it is. There is deception and PR ... but their core remains the same.

If you support or promote the Brahma Kumaris, you are promoting a cult that believes it is responsible from bringing about the imminent "End of this World" and death of 7,000,000,000 people so that they alone can rule the world for 2,500 years. You are promoting a cult that has lied to its followers, split families and taken multi-millions of dollars off its followers for decades. One that still lies to and manipulates its followers.

And why have not I been sued for saying that? Because it is verifiably true.

    Do you as a therapist consider that to be a healthy type of organization?
    Would you as a therapist recommend vulnerable clients to such individuals?

Please. Go back to Easton. Ask him if what we say about the BK philosophy is true and if he thinks it is healthy. Ask him why he promotes it and then come back and tell us.

* I write "potentially vulnerable people" because of individuals in need coming seeking counselling. Obviously if others are just seeking "personal growth" perhaps they would not fit that category but they may still be gullible enough to be misled.
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