Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post11 Mar 2012

It is simple Paula.

    If you were a company and had a product which was killing people, you would pull it off the shelf, would not you?

    You would not sell it and you would not advertise it.

    If it was exceptionally valuable, like a drug, you might research why it was not working and killing people. You would remove the element that was, alert professionals, and put up warnings ... would not you?

    Of course you would.

Well, that is pretty much how we feel about what the Brahma Kumaris are doing. For us, the BK suicide is yet more evidence of what we are talking about ... and what is Easton position? Seemingly to ignore it, and increase his threats. I don't even see how we have criticised his work. All we have criticized is his promotion of the Brahma Kumaris without adequate warnings.


The state of mind the Brahma Kumaris have been putting people in is exceptional. Fear of a perpetually imminent 'End of the World' called "Destruction", eternal damnation or failure if one is unwilling or unable to conform to their demands, and the separation of individuals from their families.

It is beyond the ordinary pressures that we all experience in life, at some point or another. And, on top of this, we have discovered that they have been involved in numerous and significant cover ups about their past.

When that world view fails, and the ex-BK individual comes to question what they have been doing, they are taken into a very, very dark place with few to no avenues of support ... except, of course, one being this forum.

We here, and this site, have acted to change the BKWSU through our open discussing and documentation. They have had to change because we have uncovered their deception and their failures of duty of care, such as the child abuse.

I am afraid that until you know Brahma Kumarism better, you will not understand fully our feelings. Personally, I don't think in your state you should be following this forum because the issues involve are too emotional for you.
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jann

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post12 Mar 2012

I agree.

An organization with so much hidden tragic should first of all be stripped to the bone to see what is going on and how teachings can effect people. They have proven to not even care, and nobody else cares (... only when it is your child, your mother, father or friend who is completely messed up). Cults like Brahma Kumaris should be on probation by law at all time and should not be recommended by people who do not know the real story, for a cult always looks good from the outside.

If Reach Approach recommend BK to clients then I wonder why.
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Enigma

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post12 Mar 2012

OF COURSE YOU AGREE JANN ... I KNOW WHO YOU ARE TOO!

BY THE WAY JANN???? YOU NEED TO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT, BECAUSE WE DO NOT ‘RECOMMEND’ BKs, THEIR RETREATS OR FOR THAT MATTER ANY OTHER SUCH ORGANISATION. UNLIKE IN THIS FORUM, PEOPLE ARE LEFT TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS. IT’S CLEAR YOU’VE NOT READ THE RETREATS INTRODUCTION. IN FACT IT’S CLEAR NONE OF YOU HAVE READ THE MANY DISCLAIMERS ON OUR SITE BUT PLEASE DO KEEP ADDING YOUR MISREPRESENTATIONS AND LIES BECAUSE MY CASE AGAINST YOU ALL IS MADE STRONGER WITH EACH POSTING.


What has been proven in this witch hunt is despite all your protestations, none of you are interested in the truth. You’re so obsessed with your point of view that you’ll go to any lengths to try and win the argument. Your willingness to pursue this debate is going to cost this forum dearly, all because of the ego of your leader and guru, ex-l/Amin and all the other aliases s/he operates under. But now the decision has been made not to remove the thread, all will soon be revealed.

It’s interesting to note that ex-l has avoided all my questions about his/her duplicity and deceit and yet s/he and his/her followers are very keen to continue asking questions of me (which by the way I’ve answered). But the time for questions to me is over. So ex-l/Admin et al, who are you? And why are you running this forum like the cult you’re so busy despising? Shame on the members of this forum who’ve not had the courage and integrity to stop this mindless abuse. This thread has done a lot of damage and you are all culpable through your silence and I will not stop until these injurous claims are quashed and ex-l in particular is unveiled (as it is s/he almost single-handedly who has driven the direction and tone of this thread).

GIVEN THAT I’M GOING TO SEE JUSTICE DONE UNDER THE HARASSMENT AND LIBEL LEGISLATIONS, THE ANONYMITY OF ALL INVOLVED WILL SOON BE REVEALED SO YOU WON’T BE ABLE TO CONTINUE USING THIS AS YOUR SHIELD WHILST YOU THROW YOUR STONES OF ACCUSATIONS AND ABUSE. THIS HAS NOW BECOME A CRIMINAL MATTER SO BE PREPARED TO BE INVESTIGATED AS I WILL BE MAKING MY VISIT TO THE POLICE LATER TODAY. YOU KEEP SAYING I’M THREATENING TO TAKE ACTION ... I’VE THREATENED NOTHING – THIS IS A PROMISE!

Please do keep chatting amongst yourselves, because with each posting you continue to make my case stronger.

p.s. the only concession you have made has not in fact completely been honoured. ‘Is the Reach Approach A BK Related Con?’ is still featured in the search engine, Google and as that question has long been discredited and you've begun a new witch hunt, you need to change it, otherwise you should note you’re continuing to walk a very dangerous line having that as your tag ... I suggest you change that today because that question has been proven to have no legitimacy (maybe not in your kangaroo court but in the only court that really matters).

THE NEXT TIME YOU HEAR FROM ME THE INVESTIGATIONS AGAINST YOU ALL WILL HAVE BEGUN!

Easton Hamilton
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post12 Mar 2012

How would you know who Jann was if it was not via BK connections, or you just trying to frighten people? I am getting a very angry vibration off you (... and the funny thing is, even I don't know who Jann is).

I think it would be useful for you to reflect upon Maria's post "But they did good things ..." at this time.


Our interests are only with in the Brahma Kumaris but, given the current situation, if I have to defend myself I will take a look at some of the other individuals you are recommending, or perhaps using to substantiate your theories, along with "expert" Brahma Kumari Jayanti Kripalani.

Given your professional responsibilities, as a way of resolving matters, I think it would be better to remove the connections to the Brahma Kumaris from your website/business.

* As you know, Jayanti dropped out of her university degree to go off and become a psychic medium in India. She has been party to the BKWSU's undue influence of individuals since the late 70s. Specifically, for decades, she encouraged people to believe that the "End of the world" will be in 2 to 3 years and in the mid-1980/90s. In my time, she never warned us once that the god spirit of the Brahma Kumaris had made numerous false predictions of Destruction.

It seems a number of the "experts" you recommend have dubious credentials, e.g. diploma mills type degrees. I think you should be more careful.
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Mr Green

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post12 Mar 2012

Dear Enigma/Eastern

Your starting to sound a bit paranoid, it's a bit unfair to be so agressive toward Jann, she is a very sweet individual who has really been through difficult times. I really don't think she means you any harm and I know for a fact she has no connection with ex-l.

You know I am not in the business of controlling others and am not interested in 'changing' others and that includes ex-l, he/she is welcome to free speech in my opinion, many people over the years have found his/her style of communication difficult, I have in the past defended him/her and attacked him/her but I respect others individuality and I can see where he/she is coming from, even if I don't agree

It's also a bit unfair to talk badly about all the members of this forum, we really in general are nice people. I mean I am sure I've mentioned twice in this thread that I've heard good things about Reach and I personally know people who have been there, but anyway I still wish you all the best

MrGreen (by the way, I would like to remain annonymous to the general public and as I have said I will converse openly in private if you so wish)
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Enigma

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post12 Mar 2012

Dear Mr. Green

THE ONLY REASON I’M RESPONDING TO WHAT YOU’VE SAID IS BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON I’VE FOUND TO BE CONSISTENT AND REASONABLE THROUGHOUT.

However, on this occasion your opening line is not reasonable. If you mean I’m being paranoid by quoting facts, then I am paranoid and happy to be so, because everything I’ve said has been truthful, whether the parties here want to believe me or not is no longer my concern. I’m speaking to the unfortunate ones being poisoned by this thread.

As far as Jann is concerned I did not say she had any connection with ex-l.... that was not the point I was making. It’s interesting I should be accused of trying to frighten people when I have no interest in this toxic dialogue at all. If fear is being generated because I’m speaking from the information I’ve now gathered, then that has nothing to do with me as I have no interest in conflict. That is the responsibility of those who are fuelling this matter.... I’m merely defending myself and Reach’s good name. ex-l doesn’t seem to care who he hurts or offends so it’s time he was revealed.

Anyway, Mr. Green, I have no issue with you and do not seek to establish one. Everything I have said in my most recent postings has been fact, given to me by parties concerned about the injustice they have been witnessing in this forum over recent days and weeks. None of these are BKs by the way, as was again insinuated. You see, good will and conscience are now floating to the top. So those coming to my aid are ex BKs and others who can see that the interests of truth are not being served here. So we’ll be able to test the hypothesis of whether I’m indeed paranoid or not in the fullness of time.

I have no problem with free speech or opinions, what I have a problem with is the relentless, arrogant, insinuations developed on the back of rumour and hearsay. This is not opinion, it is hurtful and destructive and I keep hearing that this site is concerned with the innocent and yet it doesn’t seem to mind who it hurts in the process.

Interestingly we share the same values as I have no interest in controlling others, which is what the work of Reach is all about, but you say you respect others’ individuality, so respect mine. You are not the one being accused of things you are not guilty of. And so it’s quite easy to take up the position you’ve adopted when you are not the object of bullying. You made some reference to ex-l’s style of communicating. If you and others have been prepared to tolerate that over the years, this is your business and your choice. Now I know who he is and that his position has not been one of integrity, no amount of further smoke-screens will distract me from my task of unveiling this façade. How is it by the way that you’re not interested in picking up ex-l on his dismissive attacks on Maria44 and Paula when both have shared experiences that members of this forum can relate to and understand? Yet what they said was cast aside. He has in fact attacked everyone at some point and yet I am accused of aggression because I’m defending myself. There are too many double standards here.

This forum needs to decide what it is really all about as ex-l says its interest is with the BKWSU. If that is really the case, leave me alone, get rid of this thread and get on with your real objective. From what I’ve seen thus far and from the history of this forum ex-l is not qualified to talk about integrity and conscience.... he needs to go and sort out his own issues first, before sitting in judgment of others. It’s one thing to have a cause; it’s a completely different thing to bludgeon others in your pursuit of it.

I would love to speak with you privately but I certainly won’t do it through this forum because I know that the private messaging system is not private at all. Call me paranoid if you wish but the evidence that I have in front of me tells me otherwise. If you do want to talk, you have my email address and you can contact me that way or ring me should you choose to.

As for the issue of anonymity, that right has been foregone by ex-l/Admin because he’s used his anonymity as a sword against me and Reach’s reputation. If he wants to retain that then he knows what he needs to do. And as for ex-l’s threat that in the defence of himself he will go and look at what else we are recommending (none of you appear to be interested but we do not recommend... we in fact only have 2 ‘recommended’ categories on our site!) he can waste his time trying to discredit us if he wishes. We are not afraid of this as our good work will continue regardless.... so he’s the one who needs to be careful.

As for you, I again say I have no issue with you. It’s obvious you’re a nice man Mr. Green and I wish you well but it’s time to start applying the standards you obviously have equally.

As promised, I’ve started the ball rolling today because I’m not prepared to stand by being accused of all the connections between Reach and BKWSU when no such connections exist.

Easton
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Mr Green

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post12 Mar 2012

Just wanted to say thanks Easton, it was my mis-understanding you thought wrongly of Jann, that's what I meant by paranoid, I did not mean in general. Jann is a lovely lady.

Thanks for you offer of email or phone, I may well take you up on that

Thanks
Mr Green
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post12 Mar 2012

    "The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks".

No concern over the latest BK suicide, Easton? No suggestions on how they could improve their 'Duty of Care'? No desire to have a normal discussion about your own BK experiences in the past and where you stand on it all now, e.g. what led you to leave?

I just don't get it. If the BKs are good enough to be recommended as "experts" or as a good retreat, what could bad about having those connections to them?

How can it be considered libellous!?! I am sorry but the whole thing feels schizophrenic to me.

    What really is your beef?
Is it that these ex-clients have questioned your authority ... or that you want to hide your (collective) reactions to it now?

If I was to play psycho-analyst over it, I would have to make assumptions along the lines that you obviously still have high regard for the BKs, or the BK connections we have mentioned above (enough to recommend them on your website), and you think you are going to be some kind of hero for them by having a go at us here.

I think you need to think very careful about what you are getting yourself into, and retract your threats.
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jann

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post13 Mar 2012

Excuse me for living Easton!

I Think you misunderstood my post. Here it is again:
An organization with so much hidden tragic should first of all be stripped to the bone to see what is going on and how teachings can effect people. They have proven to not even care, and nobody else cares (... only when it is your child, your mother, Father or friend who is completely messed up). Cults like Brahma Kumaris should be on probation by law at all time and should not be recommended by people who do not know the real story, for a cult always looks good from the outside.

If Reach Approach recommend BK to clients then I wonder why.

The organization I am talking about is Brahma Kumaris, NOT yours and should indeed be striped to the bone. 'An IF Reach approach" etc ... Does not mean you ARE!

I understand you are upset. And for I do not know the truth, and have not seen any proof, I am (still) neutral. But I still have my opinion (in general) and that is, that no organization like yours should be in anyway connected with ANY cult, only for the fact that it will harm your credibility. Thats all.
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jann

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post13 Mar 2012

And by the way ...
... I KNOW WHO YOU ARE TOO!

If you do, you would be happy to know me and not threaten me in any way.
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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post13 Mar 2012

Dear Mr. Green

Thank you for your reasonable and balanced response. If you choose to contact me at any point I’d be happy to communicate further with you.

Thank you for your respect.

Easton
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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post13 Mar 2012

WHAT IS REALLY MY BEEF!!

YOU MEAN THIS FORUM OPENING UP A DEBATE ABOUT ME WHICH NO ONE EVER HAD THE COURTESY OR DECENCY TO CONTACT ME ABOUT FOR MY POINT OF VIEW BEFORE A VERDICT WAS ANNOUNCED; PERPETUATING SPECUALATION AND SLANDER, TARNSIHING MY NAME AND THE REPUTATION OF REACH, ENGAGING IN LIBELOUS STATEMENTS AND NOW SYSTEMATICALLY HARASSING ME?

EVERYONE WHO’S BEEN FOLLOWING THIS SOAP OPERA CAN SEE THAT WHAT THIS THREAD CLAIMED TO BE ABOUT AT THE BEGINNING BEARS NO RESEMBLANCE TO THE EVER-CHANGING DAILY ATTACKS ON ME. IT’S AS IF ONCE I PROVIDE YOU WITH AN ANSWER YOU GO DIGGING FOR SOMETHING ELSE AND KEEP CHANGING THE AGENDA. THIS IS ACTUALLY WHY THIS HAS BECOME AN HARASSMENT ISSUE ... SO IS THIS A SERIOUS QUESTION?

As for your psychoanalyst skills, they need quite a bit of work because if you’d really bothered to read my very first posting this witch-hunt, masquerading as a debate, would have gone no further. Your latest taunt is that I have ambitions to be a ‘BK hero’ (another laugh-out-loud moment). Let me see if this point can register on this occasion. I doubt it but it’s worth a try.

ON THE ONE HAND BKWSU CASTS DOUBT ON MY METHODS AND APPROACH AND IN MANY INSTANCES CASTS ASPERSIONS ON WHAT I DO BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH YOU DON’T SEEM TO HAVE NOTICED I TACKLE TOPICS THAT BKs ACTIVELY DISMISS AS IRRELEVANT AND FROWN UPON. WHICH IS WHY THERE ARE MANY ON THAT SIDE OF THE FENCE WHO (LIKE YOU) LOOK DOWN ON WHAT I DO AND HAVE DIMINISHED ITS VALUE. THEN ON THE ANTI BK SIDE I’M ACCUSED OF BEING ONE OF THEIR ‘SLEEPING’ REPRESENTATIVES, OUT IN THE WORLD, PERFORMING WORKS ACCORDING TO THEIR MISSION.

THIS IS WHAT HAS MADE THIS WHOLE THREAD RIDICULOUS. I’M BEING ACCUSED OF BEING SOME DOUBLE AGENT WHEN THE TRUTH IS I HAVE NO INTEREST IN EITHER SIDE. IT SEEMS TO ME YOU BOTH HAVE MORE IN COMMON BECAUSE YOU’RE BOTH GUILTY OF CRICTICISING SOMETHING YOU DON’T REALLY UNDERSTAND.

Isn’t it interesting that no on has squared this particular circle ... because they can’t. I’m choosing to walk my own path and even this has become a reason for offence.

So, ex-l, as I really do know who you are and everyone knows who I am, why don’t you stop pursuing your own agenda and either meet me in person in a neutral place or contact me by email or phone and resolve this matter like mature adults. That way I will not take any further action and you can resolve whatever personal beef you have with me and this forum can get on with its real job.

Easton Hamilton
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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post13 Mar 2012

Dear Jann

Just for the record, I have no issue with you. In fact, I have no issue with this forum whatsoever. I wish you no harm and I applaud what you are all trying to do.

However, this thread has lost its way because it appears that because I don’t share your point of view I must be condemned. I cannot make it any clearer that I and Reach recommend very little. We certainly do not recommend BKWSU or any equivalent organization. Are we actually saying that when a book is on a library shelf it is a recommendation of that library? This debate needs start being realistic. I’ve got lots of things in the Reach library that I don’t fully subscribe to or agree with and yet they are there for people to make their own judgments. This is what the pursuit of autonomy looks like ... leaving people to make their own choices.

It should be pointed out that our website makes no money. The products that are sold do not cover the costs of running the website itself. As a private practice with a conscience driven approach we offer it specifically for those who don’t have any other resources available to them. Here we leave people to make up their own minds. Reach has never had any association, alliance, relationship and whatever other adjectives refer to union, whatsoever with the BKWSU. The few things that are genuinely recommended on our site include: therapists and reading material. And I should make it clear that those things are based on the repeated feedback we get from clients and users of those services or products ... nothing more, nothing less. No hidden agenda, no desire to control people’s thinking. I believe in autonomy. People must find what works for them. That is what I am about.

So I ask to be left alone to get on with my task and for you to continue with yours. I have no desire to take this further but my hand keeps being forced. Mr. Green says you’re a lovely lady and I believe what he says.

Best wishes to you

Easton
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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post14 Mar 2012

ex-l

I have now offered to meet with you or speak/email if you prefer, to end what has turned into a fiasco, dressed up as justice ... but I’ve heard nothing. Because of the damage being done every day to people who need help, I brought forward the meeting with my lawyer. I’ve been told there are at least 6 breaches of harassment legislation in this thread and the libellous statements are in double figures. If you do not respond to this last ditch attempt to achieve a resolution, and remove the thread today as well as all other derogatory statements about me and Reach that have rippled through this forum, then you will receive notification of these breaches in writing which will put the whole forum, not just this thread, in jeopardy ... which is not what I want!


I have been honest throughout this thread and defended myself and Reach’s reputation in the best way I have known how, against the repeated misrepresentations and untruths, and even though it’s been me under attack I’ve said consistently that I do not wish to harm the forum. This remains my position. But equally I have no intention of standing by, allowing others to be harmed. So as you ex-l have been the main perpetrator throughout, I call on you to apply reason and common sense, otherwise you alone, are jeopardizing the whole forum. If the thread is removed today, no further action will ensue as this matter is now also in the hands of the police who’ve encouraged me to seek an amicable solution if possible before continuing with my pursuit of the case (which I’ve been told there is an harassment case to answer). So here I am doing just that.

I’m prepared to come and meet with you on your own terms and to even come and meet with you at your home if you wish, as I now have your address. Equally you are welcome to meet with me at my home. Please let me know what you want to do. I hope common sense and justice will prevail.

Easton Hamilton
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post14 Mar 2012

Unfortunately, if we are to believe you entirely Enigma, we have to call Mike26, Alanna and their associates "liars" ... and I am not willing to do so. I have every reason to believe that they are sincere and telling the truth. Private message me if you want to speak 'off forum'.

It all boils down to 'word play' really. OK, they are talking about something that happened in the past. You might be making an assertion it has stopped in the present. I could accept that.

But what do you even mean by "the Reach Approach". When I write "the Reach Approach", I mean 'the website' ... which still has recommendations to the Brahma Kumaris and their retreats. You might mean your general approach to "Personal Development" work ... because you certain go beyond simple counselling. We have no idea what RA is, because we cannot find any record of a "Reach Approach" existing.

It is all a bit like the idea of the "Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University" in that. An idea which 'exists but does not exist' (no such thing as the "Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University" actually exists). For me, what is "Reach Approach" and what is 'just you' seems blurred and confused together.

You cannot deny your Brahma Kumari experience any more than I can. As you are more positive about it than I am, presumably you "took benefit" and learned something from it?

Lastly, bear it in mind, if you are going to go sue anyone, you will be suing Mike26, Alanna and their friends for their comments ... not me. Consider serious the implications on your business of being seen to sue ex-patients for speaking out because, sure as hell, I will defend them.

Your portrayal of us as being "anti-BK" and having an "agenda", whatever it is suppose to be, is exactly how some elements of the BKWSU have responded and portrayed us ... whereas what I would call the mature, responsible elements of the BKWSU - which whom I have reasonable good relationships - respect what we have done and think we are good for the BKWSU as a whole.

I'd like to give you the same advice I would have given BK Hansa Raval before she tried to sue this site ...

    a) Be careful who you climb into bed with in the BK world (... metaphorically speaking, of course).
    b) Get over it, stop acting in a menacing fashion, and speak to us in a normal fashion.

    You're over and out of the BKWSU now ... so you say ... please help others get over it by speaking of your experiences and how you overcame them.

(* I did find the trademark but that is only for "Reach" and for the following classes and emphasising "mental health". As you know, as with religion, 'undue influence' is a much more serious matter for mental health practitioners than it is with ordinary individuals because of their trusted and influential position.)
Class 09:

    Computer hardware and firmware for use in relation to the provision of mental health and personal development services; computer software (including software downloadable from the Internet) for use in relation to the provision of mental health and personal development services; compact discs; digital music downloadable from the Internet; downloadable electronic publications containing information about mental health and personal development.

Class 16:

    Paper, cardboard and goods made from these materials, printed matter, book binding material, photographs, stationery, instructional and teaching material, plastic materials for packaging, printed publications; all the aforesaid goods being for use in relation to the provision of mental health and personal development services.

Class 41:

    Education and the provision of training, entertainment, sporting and cultural activities, the provision of on line electronic publications and digital music (not downloadable) from the Internet; all the aforesaid services being in relation to the provision of mental health and personal development services.
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