Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post20 Feb 2012

I have read this thread with some dismay, and wish to offer an alternative point of view. Please forgive any clumsiness in tone or prose, but realise it is from the heart.

I have received personal and couples counselling through Reach at various times over the past 8 years, always through my own volition and choice. Indeed, the couple's counselling myself and my partner received was with Easton himself, and though difficult was nurturing and enlightening and helped us maintain our relationship through a period of great turmoil.

I find it difficult to associate the comments above with the organisation which has helped me so much. I knew nothing of the Brahma Kumaris until I read this thread, an act which was only prompted by my curiosity over an impassioned rebuttal to it on the Reach website itself. If, as the thread states, Reach is a "BK related con", why have I not been indoctrinated to at least the teachings or writings of the BK? I have been through the stages of counselling which are detailed, including the darkroom work, which forum member alanna feels to be "brainwashing", and can only relate that my experience has been entirely different, and overwhelmingly positive. I am an atheist, and my feelings and any "lack" of faith are not frowned upon, derided or challenged by the Reach approach, they have been embraced, and on no occasion has my view been altered, either subtly or unsubtly.

Without sounding like a cheerleader, or some sort of cult based sycophant, I do find Easton to be a remarkable man. He has helped me come to terms with my own masculinity, and also to contextualise it within a loving relationship, which at one point he helped nurture and maintain as our therapist. If, as is stated, such relationships are "taboo" within the BK, why would he do that? Wouldn't he have taken the opportunity to undermine that relationship and convert us? My Reach counsellor I also view as a remarkable woman, she has been fundamental at times to my mental health, and at no time have I felt challenged, indoctrinated, or pushed down a path I was unsure of. Apart from the money which I have paid my counsellor for regular sessions, I have not donated, or been asked to donate to Reach. They do not have a fee structure, and instead rely on an "honesty box" approach, you pay what you feel you can afford, indeed, as stated above, many pay nothing for this help.

I am sure there will be some who will read these words with disdain, but this is an honest account.

If anyone wishes to engage in further discussion I am more than happy to respond.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post20 Feb 2012

Bright Spark wrote:If, as the thread states, Reach is a "BK related con", why have I not been indoctrinated to at least the teachings or writings of the BK?

Did Enigma send you the link or ask you to post here ... have you communicated about this topic?

(The topic 'questions' not 'states' and, for the record, I did not write that title. I don't know Mike26 or Alanna and hope they are OK too.)
If, as is stated, such relationships are "taboo" within the BK, why would he do that?


That's a good question only he can answer and I hope he does ... we don't know if he still is in the BKWSU.

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post20 Feb 2012

I have not communicated with Easton about this, no links were sent or requested. I google searched "criticism of the Reach Approach" and this thread was in the top couple of answers.

The topic thread title does indeed question, not state. But the line between questioning and stating is crossed at times by various posters.

starchild

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post20 Feb 2012

The fact that Enigma came on the site to make his statement, whilst including that he would not be engaging any further, is almost putting anyone who wants to make critical comment into a role of unfairness towards him.

Nevertheless, I would like to make comment.

I understand that an anti-bk stance can seen a bit harsh, given that we have all met very nice people through our experience with the BKs.

I find it deeply concerning that a person who seems to have the care and well being of vulnerable people (looking, as he puts it, for relief) has no criticism whatsoever of the BK organization. He seems happy to send these vulnerable persons (most people who go to therapies of this sort are vulnerable in one way or another), to retreat centres where there certainly is a focus on presenting the god of, and the beliefs and notions of BKism.

He does not seem at all concerned about the horror stories that have been related on this forum although he goes to trouble to portray himself as a very caring individual. I do not know how anyone can make a statement that all experience is valuable, given the recounting on this forum of experiences of child abuse, childhoods lost, and adults experiencing long term damage, even suicides (where is the value there?).

He speaks of his "past allegiance to the Brahma Kumaris" but does not want to discuss his involvement with them, as being not relevant.


I suspect that this person still has a strong attachment (whether it be emotional or mental) to the BKs. I notice that the further on I move away from the BKs in myself, the less concerned I am at the most scathing of criticism. I still know that I met very nice people there, some I still know, but I can be much more honest now about the reality of my experience and what I perceive to be the modus operandi of the organization. I would still consider most of them to be victims although, as has been pointed out on this forum, if individuals do not cop on at a certain stage, and move on ... although clearly the lifestyle suits some people, one wonders how honest they could possibly be with themselves.

I do not really know anything about Reach, I have no agenda to be destructive towards it in any way. My concern is that those who cannot criticize the very real dangers for vulnerable individuals to be exposed to bkism may be either deluded, or in some way under an unwise or unhealthy influence.

It simply is not good enough to dismiss peoples recounting of their experiences as being anti-BK or randomly defamatory. Yes, there are some members who are very angry, and some are anti-BK. Many also are not. It does not negate the facts that there has occurred in this organization; lack of care, neglect, huge refusal of taking responsibility by the BK "Seniors" and outright abuse on all sorts of levels.

Certainly it is absolutely the entitlement of those affected to be concerned for other vulnerable individuals, as it is also their right, and some would perhaps consider it a responsibility, to voice their concerns.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post21 Feb 2012

Thank you for your comment 'starchild'. I thought it raised reasonable issues. I was concerned by Enigma's harshness towards ex-patients.

Any company will have failures but does it really help them to call critics "damaged"?

I invite Enigma to join us to clarify matters regarding his involvement with the BKWSU and referring patients to them, and to discuss BK matters from a therapeutic point of view.
Bright Spark wrote:I google searched "criticism of the Reach Approach" and this thread was in the top couple of answers.

Funny co-incidence that. I just did a Google search, for "criticism of the Reach Approach" and could not find anything about this website in the first 20 pages.

Then I tried another one for "criticism of the Reach Approach on brahmakumaris.info". It came up with two pages but no mention again ... although it did come up with various topics on Destruction and BK controversies including a BK being found dead in a center which kind of support the points you were making.

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post21 Feb 2012

You don't have to believe me ex-l. I have not been approached by enigma or anyone at reach to post here. Your clumsy insinuation is not really worthy of debate.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post22 Feb 2012

You must have used a different search then because I've tried many and still come up with none. I found Enigma's rebuttal here, Misconceptions About Reach. To who does the "dripping tap" refer? Criticisms from within the BKWSU? Certain not us, we have not been around for 20 years.

Certainly, if Easton is promoting sexual relationships as healthy or desirable, that would be in absolute opposition to Brahma Kumarism.

    Why won't he clarify his involvement with them?
Bright Spark wrote:I do find Easton to be a remarkable man. He has helped me come to terms with my own masculinity, and also to contextualise it within a loving relationship, which at one point he helped nurture and maintain as our therapist. If, as is stated, such relationships are "taboo" within the BK, why would he do that?

There is every possibility that Easton is a remarkable person but until his relationship with the BKWSU is confirmed, my question would be the same as yours.

    Sexual emotional relationships are definitely "taboo" within the BK, so why would a BK do that?

Even if it was just for the sake of good business, I think it would raise criticisms from the BKs. Lust is the root of all evil according to the BKs. If Easton was passing essentially vulnerable people on to the BKWSU via retreat centers, as has been reported, then I would find that genuinely concerning and consider it a breach of professional ethics.

The Brahma Kumari leadership is a concertedly dishonest and manipulative cult which for decades has conned followers out of millions by changing its predictions, re-writing its philosophies to suit and - in essence - robbing other religions of their terminology and ideas.

To understand the sort of pressures the Brahma Kumari leadership places upon adherents, many of whom are already in committed relationships, and many of whom are teenagers and as such will be denied such relationships for life, read this forum. A few that come to mind immediately ...

    "The Sword of Lust" ... "The Ocean of Poison" ... "Worse than murder" (spiritual death of two people) ... "Lusty demons" or "dogs" ... "the Pathway to hell" etc
The BKs have gone out of their way, all over the world, to divide partnerships of old or young even advising partners how to do so specifically break apart to the point of assisting in divorces (and, of course, taking property). In one case I witnessed, the woman was even washing her clothes if ever the husband accidentally touch her and dressing up in full pajamas and gloves in case she or her husband should accidentally touch at night in bed. Two kids lost their parents and home. In another they advised a young woman to have an abortion because the end of the world was coming soon and having a child would distract from her ability to meditate in preparation of it. Its leaders even demand of teenagers to scour their dreams of "impure thoughts" and confess the likes to them.

So, to answer Enigma's question, what is my/our intention here?

People come here out of their own interest to discuss the BKWSU. No one tells them what to do. From my own point of view, I am interested how a BK ... if that is the case ... can separate two parts of themself; one part to believe in BKism, the other to promote sex and relationships. From a BK point of view only, there is a small matter of principle over BKs doing business with each other. Strictly speaking it is also against the Maryadas.

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post22 Feb 2012

I don't mean this to sound blunt ex-l, but have you thought about maybe contacting easton directly about this instead of asking endless questions and throwing down gauntlets which will never be picked up in a forum like this. I am sure if you spoke to him he may feel more able to fully engage in this forum without the perhaps unfounded fear that he is being defamed. His contact details are transparent and i very much doubt he would fail to engage with you.

It is not really incumbent upon him to address this forum, yet you obviously crave clarification, so why not follow it up directly? His email and telephone are clearly on the reach website. Otherwise this whole debate turns into a huge passive aggressive stand off!

truckers

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post22 Feb 2012

I havent got time to reply in full right now.

Bright spark - I think free speech is still allowed and encouraged in this country and this is the only place I have seen on the internet where this can be discussed. This website is important, just as much as Reach have rights to have their website.

Propaganda - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda - Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position.

Both Reach's website and this website could be construed as such.

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post22 Feb 2012

If you think free speech is free to include personal attacks, accusations and defamation then i'd agree with you trucker. This thread contains all of those things and takes the standpoint that reach is a front for BKs. I disagree with that point of view. The tone is accusatory and, i believe, unfair.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post22 Feb 2012

Bright Spark wrote:This thread contains all of those things and takes the standpoint that reach is a front for BKs. I disagree with that point of view. The tone is accusatory and, i believe, unfair.


If you don't know Brahma Kumarism and the BKWSU, how would you know?

This forum is primarily for people who have had direct contact with the BKWSU and as such our critique is from that point of view. THing which might appear quite innocent or acceptable to a "worldly person" might actually be highly contentious from a BK point of view.

Like this issue of relationships.

That is why it is important to know whether Enigma is a BK or not.

Please note the other individuals have had direct contact with the Reach Approach and so as speaking from their own experience, e.g. if he is using BK trigger words and concepts, you would not notice whereas they and we would. From a BK point of view, it's not good to take The Knowledge and resell it.

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post22 Feb 2012

Strangely enough I have eyes, a brain and a memory. I have read around the BK in the last couple of days, realised that I find the movement really quite bizarre and abhorrent, and related it to my experiences with Reach. The two simply don't tally. Full stop.

I understand that I am not welcome here, I am simply not paranoid enough to belong. Sorry that I am not part of your club.
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Mr Green

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post22 Feb 2012

Very odd all this.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post23 Feb 2012

I understand that I am not welcome here, I am simply not paranoid enough to belong. Sorry that I am not part of your club.

There is no question of you "not being welcome here". It is just that if you are not a BK or have not been in the BKs, a lot of what we discuss will make little sense to you.

What would help the most would be if Engima was to come forward, engage with us honestly, add his insight to the ongoing discussion, and his general observations about the Brahma Kumaris. I'd see the ability to do so as a sign of maturity and a good state of mind, or "stage" as the BKs call it.

Part of that might be to clarify his involvement and his company's policy on referrals to the BKWSU. All he needs to do is confirm he does not use his business to draw people into the BKWSU.

Of course, if he is 'still involved' in the BKs, but has spoken above about his "past involvement", already he may be starting to tangle himself up and be starting to feel defensive.

It is a shame but, unfortunately, the Brahma Kumaris have a history of disguises, working through people or fronts and a very strange grasp on adherent's minds that, in all honesty, would have to be seen as contrary to the better principles of therapy.

BTW, the BKs say the soul is a shinning spark of light. A bright spark to those who can see it.

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post24 Feb 2012

Wow, paranoia alert. I am an electrician, it's a business name.
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