BKs use Texas University Claim Again

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jann

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BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post11 Jul 2011

What Makes Brahma Kumaris So Special? Sunday, July 10th, 2011

CHANDIGARH: Can somebody always remain calm or in a meditative state even when solving maths questions, cooking, sleeping and doing daily chores? Yes, it is possible, as the master of self, with a title of the most stable mind in the world, 96-yearold Dadi Janki was here to demonstrate. Dadi Janki is the head of the 10-lakh member strong spiritual movement Brahma Kumari, which has 9,000 branches in 170 countries.

A study was conducted on her brain waves by the Texas University only to find that she emits delta waves even at trying times, leaving examiners surprised. She attributes her mental state to Raj Yoga meditation. Sharing tips for a calm mind, she said, “We waste a lot of time criticizing others instead of focusing on ourselves.”

For her, “Negativity is wasting energy,” and she lives in this moment, worrying neither for the past nor future. She gets up at 3am and goes to bed around 10pm and conducts lectures, does meditation and meets people except for lunch break even at this age. She is often asked where does she gets her energy from, to which Dadi replies, “I receive blessings of God in abundance in the form of energy and distribute it in the same measure amongst people.”

The woman guru advises to work with purity, as it will bring peace that will usher in love; love will bring in happiness and happiness will bring power or energy. When asked, the spiritual leader said, “Baba Ramdev and civil society members approached me for lending support to fight corruption but I did not approve of the way. My focus is on reforming people through self-realisation.”

She doubts that the Lokpal Bill will be able to curtail corruption if the self-correction process is not adhered to through spiritual means.

Lets ask them http://www.ttu.edu/about/
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ex-l

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post12 Jul 2011

It was meant to have been at the "University of Texas’ Medical and Science Research Institute" in 1978 but an independent reporter researched the claims of Janki's "most stable mind in the world" and found they were not recorded anywhere at the university, the department did not exist and the event was all highly exaggerated (as usual).

Janki did go into a lab and have electrodes attached to her but it seems to have been an informal encounter. No scientist would ever make such a claim. There is no such test nor benchmark. No league table of stableness. It is a very, very silly proposition ... and one that was officially played down by BKWSU London (only to be ignored by BKWSU India who appear to be willing to say anything to anyone if it sells). All the scientists said was "the most stable they had tested".

It dates back to a time when the BKs were desperate for any kind of credibility and having a real scientist or an "-ologist" give them the time of day was a big thing for the mystic grannies.
The Gazette contacted an archivist at the University of Texas Archives who replied, “I have searched the likely places and found no mention of the experiments performed on Dadi Janki in 1978. Indeed, I did not even find any University of Texas organization called the Medical and Science Research Institute." Despite evidence that the institute that ran those experiments never existed, Dadi Janki recently described to the Indian news site www.tribuneindia.com the experiments carried out on her and repeated the claim that University of Texas scientists declared her mind the most stable in the world.
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ex-l

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post12 Jul 2011

It was meant to have been at the "University of Texas’ Medical and Science Research Institute" in 1978 but an independent reporter researched the claims of Janki's "most stable mind in the world" and found they were not recorded anywhere at the university, the department did not exist and the event was all highly exaggerated (as usual).

Janki did go into a lab and have electrodes attached to her but it seems to have been an informal encounter. No scientist would ever make such a claim. There is no such test nor benchmark. No league table of stableness. It is a very, very silly proposition ... and one that was officially played down by BKWSU London (only to be ignored by BKWSU India who appear to be willing to say anything to anyone if it sells). All the scientists said was "the most stable they had tested".

It dates back to a time when the BKs were desperate for any kind of credibility and having a real scientist or an "-ologist" give them the time of day was a big thing for the Mystic Meg grannies.
The Gazette contacted an archivist at the University of Texas Archives who replied, “I have searched the likely places and found no mention of the experiments performed on Dadi Janki in 1978. Indeed, I did not even find any University of Texas organization called the Medical and Science Research Institute." Despite evidence that the institute that ran those experiments never existed, Dadi Janki recently described to the Indian news site www.tribuneindia.com the experiments carried out on her and repeated the claim that University of Texas scientists declared her mind the most stable in the world.
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jann

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

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dids

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post19 Aug 2011

With the amount of meditation studies that have been done,anyone know if the BKs were/are involved? or is the Janki thing it?..if she is the most stable mind in the world I am sure the scientific community would have chased it up.
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Mr Green

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post19 Aug 2011

I have seen her become very unstable indeed
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bkti-pit

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post20 Aug 2011

Mr Green wrote:I have seen her become very unstable indeed

So did I.
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ex-l

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post24 Jan 2016

Criticising an 90 odd year old uneducated woman (the BKs claim 100) is hardly a brave thing to do ... but this is more about the values of the Brahma Kumaris on the whole. Values Janki Kirpalani established during her reign and values which allow her, and them, to carry on their nonsense ... part of which is sustaining her unquestionable position as "one of the 8 top souls in the world", near perfection etc.

We have discussed the BKs' claim about Dadi Janki being "the most stable mind in the world" before. It was debunked as not being true and withdrawn by the Western BKWSU. BK India, however, kept on milking it ... and the old holy cow. It seems like she did not get the message either.

From a recent class of hers on Mount Abu ... it seems that she, talking about herself in the thirdperson, still believes in it too. Even if she gets the country in which the test happened wrong (it was in Texas USA, not Canada). Her class also elucidates on the level of intellect the BKs value as "near perfect" and "deep knowledge" ... like "being scared sitting in a dark room" was a challenge of one's faith in god.

In her class, Janki also voices her desire to "live to see the birth of Shri Krishna" underlining what I always thought was primary for her ... her infatuation with Lekhraj Kirpalani. She still seems to believe that he is going to be reborn as Sri Krishna.

Actually, his rebirth is already too late for their predictions and should have happened by now. She also scrambles when it was supposed to happen ... Krishna was to be born in Kali Yuga/Confluence Age and 1.1.1 Golden Age [in 2036] was meant to have been his coronation as Emperor Narayan. All absolute garbage according to the Hinduism their ideas were borrowed.

It's pretty sad and depressing to see her at nearly 100 years old still not accepting the failure of her life's work and to watch them, the BK middle management who live off milking the likes of her, keeping this nonsense alive.

When are they going to allow her to retire and stop her filling young and uneducated people's minds with all her psychological baggage?

This is also an example of how "deep" BKism get. It's deep because they keep saying it is "deep" but at the end of the day it just boils down to the last line ... "Baba, Baba, Baba – when there is nothing else in the heart and mind the soul becomes free".

Really?
19th January 2016 – Shantivan
Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:03 am

BK Nehal

Dadi Janki - 19th January 2016 – Shantivan

When there is only Baba the soul is free. Baba is so sweet and He loves us children so much. Our effort is to only see Baba, our Father. I am a soul and my Father is the Supreme Soul. Everyone’s part is their own. No one is alike but all are renunciates and all are lovely. You are tapaswis and you follow Shrimat. We are free from following the dictates of others and the dictates of our own minds. We don’t walk according to our own will - on one side is Baba and on the other side is drama. Baba has made us belong to Him and has given us The Knowledge of the drama. This knowledge of the drama allows ustp remain detached and gives us the right to attain God’s love.

We say, ‘My Baba’ and Baba says’ My children’. In the entire cycle it is only once that Shiv Baba enters the body of Father Brahma. Baba is with us and we are with Him. We have the entire knowledge in our awareness; it is very clear in our intellects and so we have no questions about anything. You all are sitting in the Diamond Hall to become a diamond from a shell. Before we belonged to Baba our lives were not valuable. Baba enables us to experience the difference between the value of a diamond and the value of a shell. Baba tells us that this is the most valuable time. Let there not be any waste thoughts. Baba makes our intellects pure and elevated and we stop seeing defects. We all have our own specialities and everyone has their own transformation. Everyone has realised what reality is and everyone knows their own value. Yesterday Baba’s vision was on us and there was only one relationship of the children and Baba. This relationship is only at the Confluence Age and it gives so much happiness – we experience supersensuous. We remain light and receive might. We have all the powers.

All the eight powers work on the basis of knowledge. Since the day Baba established this Yagya it is our fortune that we have seen, from the how Shiv Baba made Father Brahma an instrument. He is the Innocent Lord, the Bestower of Blessings but He doesn’t come into The Cycle of birth and death and so he made Brahma Baba an instrument. He may be the corporeal medium but he is wonderful. He is so lovely, so sweet. Yesterday, when Baba came in the evening He made everyone peaceful through His drishti. There was so much peace and silence. Thousands were sitting. There was no noise. It is a wonder. There is infinite happiness when we go beyond sound. Baba teaches us this so nicely. It is not necessary to come into sound. We have to remain peaceful and loving and we are now creating the sanskars of peace and happiness. The heart is very peaceful. We don’t have other thoughts. It is such a wonder of Baba.

Baba is the Intellectual of the intellectuals. The intellect should be peaceful and have only two words of Baba’s – Manmanabhav: the body is here - where is the mind? The mind is in manmanabhav. And madyajiabhav – the inheritance, the reward in the Golden Age. Baba resides in the Supreme Abode, in the land of peace, the land of nirvana and we have to go and reside there. When we have this practise we can go to the land of happiness.

Dadi would like to live to see the birth of Shri Krishna. She wishes to see who will give birth to him. Lakshmi and Narayan will grow up and rule the kingdom but everyone loves Krishna. Brahma Baba had a vision of Shri Krishna and we also have visions of Shri Krishna. We are the children and are becoming sensible. We understand the depths of knowledge. It is very good to go into the depths of knowledge rather than knowing knowledge on a gross level.

When there are only a few human beings remaining the birth of Shri Kishna will take place. This is very deep knowledge and Baba has given this deep knowledge to us. Shri Krishna will take birth in this same world. We don’t have questions in our minds about how Krishna will take birth and how destruction will take place. We know that Krishna will take birth in the Golden Age and that the Golden Age is about to come. When there are innumerable religions Baba comes and removes unrighteousness and teaches us what is right and what is wrong; what is day and what is night; what is profit and what is loss. What is of benefit and what is of no benefit. Baba has made our intellects very good.

Dadi is said to have the most stable mind in the world. Some years ago she was tested on a machine in the UK and then travelled to Canada where she was tested again and then went to Australia where they also tested her. On all occasions her brain worked well even after a long flight to Australia. This was due to Baba. Then, on returning to India Dadi answered questions and she naturally gave the right answers. They put Dadi in a dark room to see if she got scared or not and she told them that she belongs to Baba and will not get scared.

Baba sometimes the children’s test through someone or another. He is detached and loving and makes us the same. Many wonders can happen when we are detached and loving.

Baba, Baba, Baba – when there is nothing else in the heart and mind the soul becomes free.

Om Shanti
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post20 Mar 2016

The study was conducted by specialists in psycho-physiology at the University of Texas Health Sciences Center, San Antonio, Texas (UTHSCSA). It was the late summer of 1978, August, when Janki Dadi was visiting the United States for the first time. The investigation was instigated from the service done by Dr. Errol Walcott, who spent the summer of 1978 performing service at the San Antonio Raj Yoga Center. Dr. Walcott was a veterinary student at the time and working with BK Denise and Chandru made arrangements with the physicians and scientists at UTHSCSA. Although he is a toxicologist and zoo veterinarian, Dr. Walcott has been interested in the psychophysiology of mindfulness, including scientific investigations of Raj Yoga.

In the summer of 1983, while completing a veterinary externship in San Antonio, Dr. Walcott, Simon Vivian, and Dr. Keith Hendrix revisited the scientist at UTHSCSA to corroborate the claims. The physician-scientist indicated that the electro-electroencephalographic studies from an aged yogini were scientifically unremarkable. It was not a randomized controlled study as those conducted by Benson and his team at Harvard University Medical Center. In the early 1980's Harold Bhai and BK Denise were instrumental in initiating EEG studies of BKs in San Francisco. It seems the data from the studies were not published.

There is a fundamental question that scientific medicine should ask and answer on BK Raj Yoga. How does BK Raj Yoga elicit the relaxation response and to what extent? Also, does BK Raj Yoga induce anti-inflammatory effects and counteract the cell signaling responsible cancer induction at the cell and molecular levels? Brain imaging studies, including functional magnetic resonance imaging fMRI and positron imaging transaxial tomography PET SCAN can be used to answer the above-mentioned questions.

In the spring of 1986, while completing a post-doctoral fellowship at the Carver Research Center, Tuskegee University, Dr. Walcott presented a workshop on the biophysics of meditation in which PET sans, MRI and CAT scans were discussed. An article derived from the workshop at the Interdisciplinary Luncheon Forum at Tuskegee University School of Education was submitted to Purity and was never published.
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ex-l

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post20 Mar 2016

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:There is a fundamental question that scientific medicine should ask and answer on BK Raj Yoga. How does BK Raj Yoga elicit the relaxation response and to what extent? Also, does BK Raj Yoga induce anti-inflammatory effects and counteract the cell signaling responsible cancer induction at the cell and molecular levels?


And for the BKs to ask whether is it similar or the same for practioners of other spiritual disciplines, e.g. Zen, TIbetan Buddhist, Shamans etc.

Elsewhere someone posted that the BKs have enough money "to survive 10 years without any donations". Now, putting aisde for one minute how obscene that is ... as they still encourage the poor and vulnerable to give to them on the basis of the End of the World being in two to three years ... wouldn't it be a good thing if they were to invest some of that in doing the science, instead of chasing VIPs and PR?

I would be genuinely interested to see comparative results, e.g. pitch Dadi Janki Kirpalani against a Tendai Kaihōgyō.

It would even be good "proof" for the BKs, instead of their usual wild and inaccurate claims. One could also imagine an experiment whereby the BK meditation experience was separated from The Knowledge™, e.g. testing on individuals taught the method but not the philosophy.

How did Errol get UTHSCA to do the work and who did it?

(BTW, I've been told to trust a veterinarian (and a dental surgeon) more than an MD, because their training is more thorough and demanding! BK Pathologists ... would not trust them with a corpse)
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post21 Mar 2016

In 1978, Janki Dadi had a heart attack. It seemed that her years of practicing Raj Yoga had enabled her to blunt the effects of her cardiovascular condition. She was also due to visit the USA. At that time the only Raj Yoga centers in the USA were located in San Antonio, Texas; Queens, New York; and Tuskegee, Alabama. During his summer break, Errol Bhai spent most of his vacation assisting in service at the San Antonio Center. Since the center was new and had few students, there were lots of service activities. San Antonio is one of the biomedical capitals in the USA, especially in terms of military medicine, both human and veterinary.

One of Errol's assignments was the service of the doctors and scientists in the San Antonio area. Errol also had plans to pursue a summer research fellowship in laboratory animal medicine under Dr. Young, the laboratory animal veterinarian at UTHSCA. He was introduced to Dr. Young by an Indian BK who was pursuing a PhD in nuclear medicine or radiologic health. Errol was able to contact faculty in the medicine department of UTHSCA told them of Janki Dadi's health experiences. Errol Bhai was also interested in exploring the psychophsiology of the seed form stage as practiced by BK. The physiologists and psychologists at UTHSCA were genuinely interested in conducting tests on Janki Dadi. Errol presented a proposal for the tests to Denise and Chandru. After revisions, the BK center heads presented the idea to Janki Dadi and had meetings with the medical scientists.

There were also meetings with two other smaller institutions in San Antonio who were willing to test Janki Dadi. Those were the Mind Sciences Institute and a center conducting parapsychology studies. UTHSCA was the final choice of the center heads. Errol Bhai is a theoretician and experimentalist at heart who was attracted to Raj Yoga in Guyana from the perspective of science. Being heterodox in his thinking and living, and independently spiritual, he was never liked by many in the inner BK circles, though he seemed highly favored by BapDada.
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Pink Panther

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post21 Mar 2016

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) anecdotes don’t have the authority of published work which can be peer reviewed, critiqued and if possible, replicated.
It seemed that her years of practicing Raj Yoga had enabled her to blunt the effects of her cardiovascular condition.

What the hell does that mean?

Were any of Dadi Janki's blunted effects blunted by,
    a) meditation
    b) faith
    c) diet
    d) calm demeanour
    e) inexplicable luck
as any survivor who should have been hit harder but survived might call it
    e) all of the above
    f) none of the above but something else that is unidentified?
What about the medical attention that probably prevented further, possibly fatal, episodes?

You often see people emerge from hospitals thanking God and all the people who prayed for them but ... as if the medical facility and skills they just walked out from mattered for nought!

Take two Brothers - the younger has a minor cardio-vascular condition but is quite healthy in all other ways but the first ‘event’ kills him. The older has a life-long major condition, is in and out of hospital with many episodes and fragile health for decades, but survives all of them, major and minor, to outlive his younger Brother by many years. Go figure. These two people are my Father and my uncle.

I think the BKs repeated need to "big up” (inflate) an informal, primitive brain activity test tells us more, and more conclusively, about BK culture and values than any supposed resulting measure of ”stability” from such a test.

If health and longevity has any association with ”godliness” or divinity or ”being yogi” then the most venerable person in the world is always going to be the oldest living person. Over the decades, as these people are announced in the media - so&so is the oldest in the world - they are asked ‘what is the secret to a long life?”. The answers vary considerably, often its ”a glass of wine every day” or ”good friends and lots of family” and so on. On the following list of the 100 verified oldest people, the immediate single factor that jumps out is that to be female really helps!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... est_people

Ch’an patriarch Master Xuyun aka Empty Cloud lived to 120. Given being male was a factor against long life, maybe with ”handicap” he might be considered ”more spiritual” than any woman of the same age?

Or maybe we should look at the ethnicities that have large numbers of people with longevity - the Hunza of north Pakistan, the Okinawans, the Georgians in the Caucuses. One study of the Okinawans found the only things that they did differently were that they did not ”retire” but worked the land as long as they could, even if just a little each day, and that sweet potato was a disproportionately large part of their diet! That was from before the mapping of the human genome and advances in genetics, so other things may come to light.
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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post21 Mar 2016

@ex-l,

Hello again after a while. I'd like to build on some things I've mentioned in other threads, risking to go off topic. You talked about comparing brain activities between Raj Yoga practicioners and otherwise. That would be very interesting. Playing Devil's (or maybe God's) advocate, I want to ask for your opinion on people crying when taking drishti from the two Dadis (Janki and Gulzar) or feeling like a strong current passed through their bodies. I have heard of people feeling stuff when near spiritual leaders (or in " " if you prefer) but I haven't heard of that strong experiences as with BapDada or the Dadis (even Jayanti can produce this effect to some people). I am sure there are others who feel nothing, but it's still quite impressive.

On a different topic, you have been honest about not knowing other kinds of meditations that produce the effects Raj Yoga does (or a drishti by a Raja Yoga expererienced practitioner). I was wondering if the experience people call "samadhi" is similar? I think near-death experiences come closer to Raj Yoga experiences than anything I have heard till now. I certainly don't know *everything* there is to know about spiritual experiences.
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bkti-pit

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post22 Mar 2016

I knew BKs who had more powerful experiences with non BK gurus than they had with the Dadis or BapDada.
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Pink Panther

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Re: BKs use Texas University Claim Again

Post22 Mar 2016

Friend,

If you are interested in truth you will research widely, read, study, question (everything). Do not accept what we tell you, do not accept what BKs tell you. Other people’s experiences are their experience, not yours, regardless of whether they are BK, famous gurus or yogis or celebrities, historical, current or future. You need to have your own experiences, let them range deep and wide over many areas of life, and understand them as best you can as you go along.

There is a term in Buddhism, I think it's jneya avarana or similar, whose meaning is worth keeping in mind.

Jneya avarana means being afflicted by knowledge, in the sense of how one's current knowledge can cover over or be a veil preventing deeper understanding, distorting a clearer way of seeing or greater knowledge. Any "formulation” of knowledge is to be treated with suspicion because language is a second order means of understanding or conveying truth.
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