An imaginary dialogue with BK god

Lekhraj Kirpalani (BK god) dressed in white outfit looked pretty much the same like his photo, except he seemed happier and was smiling.

Questions (Q) and Lekhraj Kirpalani (BK god) replies ...

Q : You appear cheerful and displaying a big smile, which makes you look more human and real ..!!

BK god : That is what sweetheart "Radhi" used to tell me, I really miss her ... You know during the times of
Madhuban, a smile on the face would not reflect a serious god image ..

Q : Why did you start Brahma Kumaris ..?

BK god : I got what I wanted from life, but it is always in man's mind and dreams to become immortal and be
remembered after his death, that is the only reason.

Q : You could have pretended to be a prophet or something, but to become god that is huge and unheard of ..?

BK god : What you are suggesting was tried many times in the ancient times, but nowadays people are smarter and
may not buy it. In order to thrill potential followers, you need to be innovative.

Q : Just one last question, which has been nagging me for long, why did you exclusively choose women to
promote BK and take over after you ..?

BK god : Ah, that is something I learned from the days when I was a jewellery merchant. Women are nicer than men
to start with, and are easier to convince. They always paid the price I asked for without bargaining, but
when they come with their husbands it was completely different story.

BK god : I want to ask you for a small favour. This medium and connection stuff, "Gulzar" pretends to be doing with
me is an obvious hoax, please tell her to stop it, because it will be discovered, and destroy all what I have
worked for ..!!

The BKs used to have this cartoon character called "Mr Wise" who used to ask all these types of question and, of course, be given BK answers ... or be shown up for not knowing BK answers (I cannot remember which). Your script reminded me of it, is it a very Indian thing?

I, personally, think Lekhraj Kirpalani first used the women as a front to protect him and his wealth/property from the legal action of their husbands and fathers as he knew/guessed the males of the families would not sue their females. Beyond that, I agree with what you say.

I also think he was far more inspired by what was around him at the time than the BKs let on, e.g. Sadhu Vaswani had a school for girls and was "uplifting women" and so he had to have one but his be better. Gandhi was doing his thing and so LKs had to be better (... and, boy, did he accuse Gandhi an Congress of being a disloyal traitors to the King of England after he turned the invitation to come and join them down).

Despite whatever else was going on at the time and since, he really had gone quite mad.

During my visit to Madhuban, I was told that husbands and fathers were so angry and mad at Lekhraj Kirpalani (BK god), for taking their wives and daughters from homes and spending most of their time in his company and attending teachings, to the extent they tried to kill him but failed, yet they managed to put his residence on fire few other times.

How could a self proclaimed "God", who is supposed to be super soul and super pure, to super-impose his selfish desires on others ... to achieve personal goals and false immortality ..??!

How could a self proclaimed "God", who is supposed to be super soul and super pure, to super-impose his selfish desires on others ... to achieve personal goals and false immortality ..??!

I don't think it is as simple as that, and certainly not as conscious, Dany. I don't think such a criticism fits nor would it be a successful criticism of Lekhraj Kirpalani and the BKs.

The early period of the BKWSU was fairly extraordinary. Lekhraj Kirpalani and the Om Mandli were swept along by a tide of very weird and wonderful "psychic" events that whilst not being utterly unique, were outstanding. Mass trances, instant visions, mediumship. intense seances, thrilling reactions from the local community who were, to be fair on them, the victims in the first place not the abusers as the BKs like to portray them.

Although they say his family at first thought he was having some kind of mental illness, I don't think even that model fits fully either. There was something going on (although I don't accept the BKs version of it). Even in my own experience, nearly 50 years later and 1,000 of miles away, I saw, experienced and heard of similar such extraordinary happenings.

I think it you want to deconstruct BKism, protect others or help people get out, you have to dig in deeper and not use the normal, simple criticisms of religions.

From memory, I think during one peace march against the BKs some boys threw something burning on one of the buildings but they never "burnt the building down". You know what crowds in India can be like. They say someone hired some bandit to go and kill Lekhraj Kirpalani but who knows what the truth is. I'd say the truth is that the whole reaction against the Om Mandli was pretty lame. Exciting for the women of the time but of no real significance.

One of the problems with discussing these matters with BKs is that BKs have no idea of the truth of what was really going on at that time. They have a completely false story of that makes Lekhraj Kirpalani appear like some religious martyr. A hagiograph we call them in English ... the usual exaggerated "story of a saint's lifetime" type of book.

The BKs have been told Shiva incarnated into Lekhraj Kirpalani in 1936 and that the devilish local community reacted God. In fact, there was no god at all. I don't mean that from an interpretational point of view, I mean from a historical point of view. There was no mention of any God Shiva in the BKWSU until sometime after 1950. The BKs have not told their new followers how crazy the early seances were, with women screaming and hollering and going into trances. The leadership has portrayed the BKs as all silent and holy, and innocent victims.

The question I think we should be asking is how to reinvigorate BK adherent's critical faculties ... how to use tiny grains of the salt of truth to wake them back up again. It is easy, entertaining and even healthy therapy for ex-BKs to make fun of them but I think that just makes BKs retreat deeper into their faith, and will drive your friend away from you.

But coming up with absolute truths about them that proves the leadership has lied to and manipulated the following or focusing on ethical abuses and inconsistencies might work better. Unfortunately, that means you have to study the religion a bit and commit to "serving" it and humanity by doing things like writing letter of concern etc.

I do think the BK leadership and their "god spirits" are a little parasitical evil on this world and so it is worth investing a little time doing so. However, they are probably not the worst evil. We just don't need any more evil in this world ... however you might understand that word.

Certain if not most of the so-called "Great Souls", appear to be great only on the surface ...

The Father of the nation, Mr Gandhi, was in his sixties when he had an intimate relationship with the daughter of his niece, so why would any Father trust BK god (who at the time was Gandhi age) to kiss and seat his daughter in his lab and bedside ..??

I have learned to judge things from their end results and if the end results, like in BK cult, are surrounded with negativities and evil outcome, why wasting time and energy in studying them in depth and detail ..??

On the subject of trances, I have witnessed and seen religious and non-religious trances, and people falling deeply into them, screaming and even fainting, and I was not impressed at all and never considered them divine nor supernatural, because I know what induce them.

Lastly, attempting to kill BK god and burn his house in Madhuban was conveyed to me by an authorized person in his late sixties, who appeared honest and have witnessed these events ..!!

I have learned to Judge things from their end results, and if the end results, like in BK cult, are surrounded with negativities and evil outcome, why wasting time and energy in studying them in depth and detail ..??

Many people are looking for way to protect people from them, or triggers to get them out. Sometimes only a slow, methodical point by point refutation makes people think. Usually you have to go beyond a surface level criticism ... but not by that much.

on the subject of Trances, I have witnessed and seen religious and non religious trances ... I know what induce them.

Pray tell us what induces them. Are all trances of the same nature? Have you fallen into a trance yourself or seen visions? (Honest questions).

Lastly, attempting to kill BK god and burn his house in Madhuban was conveyed to me by an authorized person in his late sixties, who appeared honest and have witnessed these events ..!!

If he was in in his late sixties, the events he was talking about happened 10 years before he was born ... and you've just learnt to doubt the BK sincerity, or recognise their deception one step deeper.

I am not sure Gandhi actually had sex with young girls if that is what you meant by "intimate relationships. I understood that he only slept between two of them in order to "test his powers of celibacy". A weird and unacceptable habit by today's standards just as Lekhraj Kirpalani behaviour was by his communities standards.

I, personally, have never accused Lekhraj Kirpalani of any sexual impropriety. I don't think he crossed that line ... but collecting a harem of 200 women, including other men's wives and daughters, and enjoying them as if he was Krishna surrounded by his gopis, was just plain wrong.

If had started his cult today, he would have been banned and shut down.

We also know now that when he started he was only in his early 50s ... not the 60 year grandfather the BKs like to portray him as. If he was 54 in 1938, and the cult was started 4 years beforehand, that means he was only 50 when it started. Actually, I think it started in 1932 which made him 48 and probably still sexually active. Om Radhe, in court, says his young child was 10 years old in 1938.

I do not really believe it is my field nor speciality to research and dig deep into religions and cults ideoligies and history and criticize them on that basis. There are specilist researchers and scholars who can undertake such tasks and accomplish them in a professional manner.

I could only judge people behaviours and relations, which are influenced by these religions and cults teachings, and form a personal opinion.

Many traditions and rituals employ "trance", which has function in religion and mystical experience. Trance may be accessed or induced by various modalities and is a way of accessing the unconscious mind. It is typically termed "hypnosis" . With this definition, meditation, hypnosis, addiction and charisma are unified trance states or attempts to cause a trance.

There are interpretations, which often include statements about contact with supernatural or spiritual beings, about receiving new information as revelation (as in the case of Gulzar), also religion related explanations of subsequent change of values, attitudes and behaviours.

"Great Soul, Mahatma Gandhi struggle with India" by Joseph Lelyveld, released last year, is basically a biography of Gandhi's life, which also sheds the light on what is claimed, the darker side of Gandhi life, especially his years in South Africa and his bi-sexual life and relationship with a Jewish architect of German origin, and also the sexual relationship with his 17 year old niece daughter and other women, at a later stage.

May be one day we will read some revelation news about the BK god's extra sexual life, especially with that big crowd of "Hareem" around him ..!!

As for my conversation with the Guide in Madhuban, concerning attempts to kill and burn BK god house, this was about 7 years back, and may be the guide looked some years younger than his true age, as to me he sounded a credible witness.

"Great Soul, Mahatma Gandhi struggle with India" by Joseph Lelyveld, released last year, is basically a biography of Gandhi's life, which also sheds the light on what is claimed, the darker side of Gandhi life, especially his years in South Africa and his bi-sexual life and relationship with a Jewish architect of German origin, and also the sexual relationship with his 17 year old niece daughter and other women, at a later stage.

The response from the people is expectable, a similar response as you might imagine from BKs regarding any criticism Lekhraj Kirpalani might receive. Typically in India the book is accused of being "perverse" rather than Gandhi. How can that be is that?

What is this need to have a perfect god-man in one's life and where does it come from? I suppose there might be a simple psychological root, e.g. the infantile need for a perfect Father? I don't know. In fairness to Gandhi, I don't think the 70 year old had sex with the teenager, he maintains he was testing his powers of celibacy (and failing nightly by becoming aroused). It makes one ask if his "celibacy" was celibacy, or like that of a repressed homosexual priest. Not having sex with your wife does not really count as a big thing if you were really gay and liked men.

The book also highlights similarities between Gandhi and Lekhraj Kirpalani when it comes to the treatment of their child bearing wives. I've always wondered why the "feminist" Brahma Kumaris never stop to think about the treatment of Lekhraj Kirpalani's wife and how she must have felt to be downgraded to a Sister when Lekhraj Kirpalani took his teenage "goddess" to be his eternal Empress of the Golden Age, the chubby, precocious Om Radhe we read of elsewhere.

Are we really to believe Lekhraj Kirpalani's wife had no feelings about that? How did it happen and come about? If there was no God Shiva speaking to the religion, who pointed Om Radhe out as being number two soul, Radhe or Lakmshi in her next life?

Like Gandhi, there is so much the BKs have hidden or destroyed.

"This is a non-issue," said Bidyut Chakrabarty, resident scholar at The Gandhi Center for Global Non-Violence. "In India, especially, they tend to think the mahatma is perfect. Mahatma means great soul and they put him on a pedestal, thinking he cannot be human, he's a god."

The new book has been banned in one Western India state, Gujarat ... Its top state politician, Chief Minister Narendra Modi, called the book "perverse". ... Politicians in the state of Maharashtra, home to India's financial capital Mumbai, have asked the central government to bar publication nationwide.

Gandhi left his wife, "Ba," -- an arranged marriage -- in 1908 for Kallenbach, a lifelong bachelor, according to the book. In letters, Gandhi wrote to Kallenbach, "How completely you have taken possession of my body. This is slavery with a vengeance." "Your portrait (the only one) stands on my mantelpiece in the bedroom," he writes. "The mantelpiece is opposite the bed."

In Levyveld's book, the lovers' nicknames to each other were "Upper House" and "Lower House," suggesting one may have been in a stronger position of power ... The author discovers that Gandhi "made Lower House promise not to look lustfully upon any woman," and the pair swore to each other "'more love, and yet more love ... such love as they hope the world has not yet seen."

"They were a couple," said Tridip Suhrud, a Gandhi scholar who met Lelyveld in India ... Gandhi implored Kallenbach not to "look lustfully upon any woman" and cautioned, "I cannot imagine a thing as ugly as the intercourse of men and women."

But it seems the Indian leader also liked women. In his 70s, Gandhi was also alleged to have had naked "nightly cuddlies" with 17-year-old great niece Manu.

At one point he forced Manu to walk through a part of the jungle where women risked sexual attacks just to get him a pumice stone to clean his feet. When she came back crying, Gandhi "cackled" and purportedly said: "If some ruffian had carried you off and you had met your death courageously, my heart would have danced with joy," according to the book.

Ever since the book was published with the revelation of Mahatma Gandhi bi-sexuality, and his relationship with his German lover, the Indian Government was trying very hard to find the whereabout of the love letters which Gandhi wrote to his German friend.

Finally, the 13 love letters ended up in famous London's "Sotheby's", and were scheduled to be auctioned tomorrow Tuesday, for a price estimated between 500,000 to 700,000 pounds, so the Indian Government rushed and paid the highest estimated price before the auction takes place, and got custody of the love letters.

In one of the letters, Gandhi wrote to his German lover, "You have completely possessed my body, which is the ultimate status of bondage "..!!

Are great souls really as great as they appear on the surface ..??

I was reading that what is called The "Advance Party", an organization predominanetly made up of disaffected ex-members of BKWSU, claim the original medium was Lekhraj’s business partner Sevak Ram, who was also a co-founder of the movement.

According to this theory, the supreme being (Shiva) manifested himself through Sevak Ram, and not Lekhraj.

Sevak left the organization in 1942, and the two lady members appointed by him to manage the organization expired soon after. Lekhraj gained complete control of the organization only in 1945.

This is a typical scenario of "revolutions" or "military coups", where the original leader/ commander gets ousted and removed, and another one from the second row emerges and take the leadership ..!!