The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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aimée

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The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of

Post21 May 2006

Dear John, we all have some Murlis from the BK time. It could be a good idea to join what we have on this web site. However, the BK authorities consider the Murlis to be their "property" somehow (Godly knowledge!) and I don't know if they would legally want to do something ...

This is very nice to read Baba's messages in the website, it feels like he is in our company, maybe a safeguard for us to measure and deepen our thoughts, and to make sure this website continues with this nice friendly mood ...

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atma

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Post21 May 2006

Bhai, my understanding of the Avyakt Vanis is that it is not compeletly Baba's message but Brahma's Message in rememberance of Shiva (Baba).

atma
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arjun

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Post22 May 2006

Sister Bansy,
Omshanti. The points that have been quoted on this forum are from Avyakt Vanis that we PBKs believe have been narrated by the soul of Brahma Baba through the body of Gulzar Dadi, but with the inspiration from Father Shiv.

The PBKs have almost the complete set of 5 years' Murlis published by the BKs in Hindi. But that is available in printed format and not as soft copies. As intimated above we are ready to share with anyone the soft copies of whatever English Murlis/Avyakt Vanis that are available with us. Many PBKs have a fairly good collection of the yearwise books of Avyakt Vanis published by the BKs. But, I have not come across the original Avyakt Vanis published by BKs in English.

We have a fairly good collection of the soft copies of English Avyakt Vanis circulated by the BKs through internet. But they pertain to the recent years. If you wish to obtain these you can contact any of the PBKs on this forum. I think Bro. Andrey can help you in this regard. If other members of this forum can also pool in their share of the soft copies of revised Murlis or Avyakt Vanis published or circualted by BKs, then it can make a good collection for the benefit of the mankind.

I am also concerned about the legal aspect of pooling/ circulation of Murlis/Avyakt Vanis published by the BKs. For many years BKs avoided preparing the copyrights of the Avyakt Vanis. But in recent years they have started doing that also.

In the revised Sakar Murlis published by the BKs, Baba has told that in future the Murlis would be published in lakhs. How can that be possible if BKs are so secretive about the Murlis? Moreover if they believe that their knowledge is a Godly knowledge, then there should not be so much secrecy in it, leave alone the question of copyrighting. How can God or Godly knowledge be copyrighted?

I agree that Avyakt Vanis are versions spoken by the soul of Brahma Baba through the body of Gulzar Dadiji in the remembrance of ShivBaba.

With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun
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aimée

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Post22 May 2006

Dear Arjunbhai,
I recollect a conversation we had with some PBK on this matter. We were wondering if it could have been a good idea to distribute and use the Murlis and Vanis, and let the BK authorities intent a trial against us, if they dare. then it would be a way to have a public BK/PBK "sharing", that could be very interesting...
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admin

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Note from forum Admin

Post22 May 2006

Aimée wrote:We were wondering if it could have been a good idea to distribute and use the Murlis and Vanis, and let the BK authorities intent a trial against us, if they dare. then it would be a way to have a public BK/PBK "sharing", that could be very interesting ...

Excuse me interrupting a private discussion but we would be happy to host all and any available Murlis as a " neutral " party between both positions. Already we have been donated some. It would be entirely possible for individuals to donate them anonymously.

Our only request is that they be as correctly labelled as possible with original and, if applicable, revised dates with clear sources, i.e. BapDada via Gulzar or ShivBaba via VD Dixit. The site currently has in develop a facility for just this.

Please contact us " off forum " if anyone is interested.
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atma

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Post22 May 2006

Bhai's,

the idea of sharing the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis would be a great idea then those who are interested and courageous enough will then come to there own conclusions on which is correct or not. As the respectful Admin has said it would be nice to have the source. I find it interesting to see that no BK will call Dadi Gulzar ShivBaba if they are claiming that Shiva enters her.

ShivBaba - Corporeal and Incorporeal merged.

atma
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arjun

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Post22 May 2006

Sister Aimee,

Omshanti. Many among the BKs may be fuming at our idea of sharing the Murlis/Avyakt Vanis, but I do not think that they will take any legal step on their own against us for the time being. They will have to think hundred times before doing so. They will have to first ask themselves how they could initiate contempt proceedings for the infringement of copyrights of Godly knowledge when they say that it is a 'UNIVERSAL KNOWLEDGE' and God Shiv is the Father of all the souls.

When the so-called Sanskrit Gita and its translations, which are considered to contain very little truth in it (equal to a pinch of salt in wheat floor used for preparing a dough) are available freely on the web, then why hide the true Gita, i.e. Murlis from the world, especially their own Brothers and Sisters.

With regards,
on Godly service,
Arjun
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john

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Post22 May 2006

But doesn't copyright belong to the author :wink:
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ex-l

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Publish and find salvation

Post23 May 2006

John wrote:But doesn't copyright belong to the author :wink:

I love it ... Yes, we will insist on calling Shiva as a witness to court to identify what are and are not his and insist on proof from the BKWSU that he signed over his rights to them !

Additionally, we will call on the incarnation of Krishna to separate which versions are his.

If they will not come, then we can insist that the BKWSU does provide contact details for the author or a sworn affidavit from the human authors that wrote them. Friends, you are free from worry. What lawyer in the world would defend the case?

Normally they say "publish and be damned". In this case it is, "publish and find salvation".
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atma

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Post23 May 2006

It is rather comical indeed. Copywriting The Knowledge that is. Some BK actions are starting to be so revealing. May they continue to do so.

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bansy

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Post18 Jun 2006

Aimee, I agree with your suggestion of sharing.

One of the things I am learning from spirituality, not just from BK/PBK knowledge, is "Freedom". I am a soul. You are a soul. We are souls, children of the Supreme Soul, who we often conveniently refer to as God universally. But as soon as we seemingly have this freedom, we put up the barrier of labelling BK, PBK, ex-BK, Christian, Muslim, etc. Yes, even this drama of the Confluence Age of 40 or 100 years is no different then the drama of 5000 years, broad or subtle, or even the lakhs of years in Hindusim.

One of the restrictions in freedom comes with the inability for allow our minds itself to be free. It is already under control the moment we place a label in front of our name. God doesn't call himself BK God, or PBK God or ex-BK God. He conveniently calls Himself Shiva for us simple humans to associate with. So let's accept that and move on. So we do. And now to His words. There are many ways in which God is/has spoken to us, whether Murlis, commandments, scriptures. Our freedom is restricted the moment we, simple human souls, control His words. If His words are allowed to be freely around with his children of the world, then the children will tune in.

Forget the course basic or advance, that is second. If we do not have the Murlis and Vanis sorted out, collected, clarified, then we are not able to become free, in our minds. If someone was to make a dictionary and it was incomplete up to the letter "T" say, would you buy it ?

So are BKs and PBKs willing to share their knowledge (Advance Course, basic course, Vanis, Murlis) to the world ? How free are PBKs ? How free are BKs ? If there is no fear, then there is nothing to hide. The internet, conveniently in this Confluence Age, is probably the tool for sharing. Science and spirituality.

If a Muslim came over to my house and asked for a copy of the Bible, I'll give it to her. If a Buddhist asked for the Koran, that too. And now, better still, you can even have it all on the internet, and study it in the office or on a park bench or on an airplane. All except the Murlis/Vanis/basic course/Advance Course/ etc. That is the price of freedom ? World Benefactors ?? Master Almighty Authorities ? ?
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atma

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Post19 Jun 2006

Bansy,

Yes freedom is important and that is what is wonderful about this we have the freedom to chose but at the same time there are results coming from our actions. I feel that many souls (PBK) are willing to share but the challenge can be using this medium at times. Many things are being done right now however it takes some time for accurate translations etc.

You can see what has happened already through the years with certain BK's ommitting and changing things. So from my experience this not from a lack of courage. I believe Bhai Arjun is helping very much with posting many points and it would be nice if he and others continue to share.
There are many ways in which God is/has spoken to us, whether Murlis, commandments, scriptures.

Bansy Do you honestly believe that God has spoken in the scriptures, commandments? The point comes up again how did we learn about we are a soul and Shiva is a soul? The importance in any knowledge is understanding where is this coming from and who is speaking such things? because understanding this is important also.

When I listen to the VCD*'s or read them I am simply amazed on what is being clarified.

atma
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bansy

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Post19 Jun 2006

Bansy wrote: Do you honestly believe that God has spoken in the scriptures, commandments?

I do. But it cannot be proven. Everything, physical or metaphysical, is inclusive of all that is within His sphere. Hence He is unlimited. Again, it is our (human soul) interpretation which defeats us. I would hazard a guess that the God to us human souls is the same as the God to the trees, bugs, etc. 5 elements. One God. Hence when I mean scriptures, commandments, I also mean that everything of a physical and metaphysical nature comes under Him, and all little bits of the drama are slipped in. I would even say evolution and dinosaurs and all the human unknowns are even part of His doing.

A Father would often check out the family, say a few things of assurance, go on a trip, bring back some things to play, say another few words, go off again on his business. Now and again, he'll return, makes sure everything is okay, and off he goes again. (Where does he go, well, that's another question !?). I think God, our spiritual Father, is no different. He's come this time in the Confluence Age to stay a bit longer to really sort things out, things have gone astray with His bunch. When it is over, He'll take a rest, but pop back now and again to tell His favourite children (souls) to do some work to realign things as much as possible, maybe even set up a few religions. Some of His children nobly note down what He has said because of our limited capabilities. Finally, a bit of nature will smoothen things out.

We humble human souls cannot prove anything, we accept and bounded to our limited knowledge of faith and truth. Thus God has told us to surrender and give Him all our burdens, in a way "it's His fault for the mess". Yet, we somehow still need Him, because He's been with us all along, through thick and thin, yet it is us who let Him down each time. I guess He needs us more than ever ? This time, He asks us to go for the unlimited. Aren't we lucky, He's even going to give us an inheritance plus sweet fruits for many years to come, or are we going to let Him down again. :shock: :D

A key to that path of knowledge is the feeling and self realisation. How much does one need to study to be intoxicated with "I love God".

So back in the lokik world, this is an opportunity for us to all share what we understand, and move forward, rather than stagnate. The system Admin have been generous to allow the information to be uploaded here, it is not easy task, but pooling our limited minds together will extend it. It takes one second, to become a BK, to become a PBK, to know God, to score a World cup goal. How much do we really understand I am a soul and He is a soul ?
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john

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Post19 Jun 2006

Atma Bhai

Do you read Sakar Murlis? Some of the points between Sakar Murlis and Murli clarifications turn completely the opposite way.

What confuses me is, if Shiva is God, God is truth, truth is one, why have some things considered right(Sakar Murlis) are now said to be false(Murli clarifications) and visa-versa. I am not pointing a finger in any direction to say anyone is wrong I am just saying a big WHY has this happened?
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arjun

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Post24 Jun 2006

Dear John Bhai, Omshanti.

Nothing that has been narrated in the Sakar Murlis (through Lekhraj Kirpalani), Avyakt Vanis (through DG) and Clarification Murlis (through Veerendra Dev Dixit) is false. It is only our understanding of the true meaning of the versions that is not correct many a times. Whatever was not clear in the Sakar Murlis and AVs is being clarified by ShivBaba through the clarification Murlis being spoken through Shankar (Veerendra Dev Dixit). And whatever is still not clear in the clarification Murlis can be got clarified by ShivBaba who is practically present to clarify through Murlis/ emails/ letters/phone calls/personal meetings, as the case may be.

But accepting those clarifications/explanations depends on the individual souls. Everyone is free to have his/her own opinion.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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