The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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arjun

PBK

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Post18 Dec 2006

Kurosh wrote:As much as I know it's not terribly soul conscious to feel this way, I am disgusted by the acceptance of doctoring of the Murli.

Dear Brother,
Omshanti. Here is another small example of how BKs make changes in Murlis casually as if they have themselves spoken it.

"Kayi 50 varsh say rahney vaaley bhi saara din ShivBaba ko Yaad bhi nahee kartey, aisey bhi hain."

"Many, who have been living since last 50 years, do not remember ShivBaba during the entire day; there are such (souls) also." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 8.6.06, pg.3 published by BKs and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; the English translation has been done by a PBK)

If the above Sakar Murli was originally narrated before 1969 (even if we suppose it was narrated on 18.1.69) the Yagya was not even 40 years old at that time. So how did the figure '50' get included in the above Murli? And if this figure has been inserted in the year 2006 then why was it not made '70' because the Yagya is '70' years old now.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

bansy

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You should be able to receive the Murli

Post18 Dec 2006

In response to some people who request for Murlis, it is mentioned in today's morning Murli (BK Sakar Murli 19 Dec 2006), page 3 :
"You can receive the Murli wherever you are. Because of having a broad and unlimited intellect, you are able to receive the points".

So if you need the Murli, they should be made available to you.
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john

reforming BK

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Re: You should be able to receive the Murli

Post19 Dec 2006

So if you need the Murli, they should be made available to you.

But if those in charge of the BKSWU will not allow this then is it possible?

As each day goes past souls are denied Godly knowledge unless they join or rejoin with the BKSWU and follow their rules.
    If Destruction is as close as they say, why is Murli not given out freely to save souls, who want to be saved?
    Does BKSWU fear it will lose it's power if souls have a choice and don't have to come to them for The Knowledge?
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john

reforming BK

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Post19 Dec 2006

khormozian wrote:I am not an official spokesperson for the BKWSU but I can tell you my personal opinion that rewriting of the Murli is not acceptable to me in the slightest. I've touched on the subject to various people at our centre (and other nearby centres), who are pretty free thinkers as BKs go, and very few of them feel as strongly as I do about it.

Your concern is very refreshing to hear.
where some suggested that the mistranslations were either unimportant or not mistranslations at all but sanctioned by Baba. However, no one had an official line on it.

For Baba to sanction it, surely that must be written down as well. Who says Baba sanctioned it and what is the proof?
They felt that getting worked up about it wasn't going to lead to a solution and that you need to find a way to work within the system.

Why work within the system? Is it because if anyone makes too much noise they will be ex-communicated or something? Is there a BK mafia system?
With the exception of a handful of people, no one else felt that there was anything insidious about the revisions.

Without knowing what the changes were, how could they know whether it is important or not?
If this is the only time we get to hear the untainted work directly from God, I cannot begin to understand how anyone can simply accept this. As much as I know it's not terribly soul conscious to feel this way, I am disgusted by the acceptance of doctoring of the Murli.

I think it is very soul conscious to feel that way. If you believe it is God's word then it should be protected and not changed.

bansy

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Post19 Dec 2006

John wrote:Without knowing what the changes were how could they know whether it is important or not?

Yes, I'd say that anything ever spoken by Father Shiva or even Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) was of the most highest of high importance, and any sort of human intervention of the orginal words, given that it has been repeatedly said that all humans are still impure, cannot tinker with these "sacred" documents. It doesn't matter if in the Murlis mentioned persons of places etc which were/are being removed due to their "insignificance" for today's crowds, unless what Father Shiva and/or BB (Lekhraj Kirpalani) ramblings on weren't true to which the BKWSU Murli team are better judges to the truth. Or maybe Father Shiva and/or BB (Lekhraj Kirpalani) spoke to the folks in the Murli team to get them removed ? :roll:
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ex-l

ex-BK

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Post19 Dec 2006

John wrote:Why work within the system? Is it because if anyone makes too much noise they will be ex-communicated or something? Is there a BK mafia system? ... I think it is very soul conscious to feel that way. If you believe it is God's word then it should be protected and not changed.

I respect the sincerity of the value and appreciation you place on these versions, John. If only they were matched by the majority of BKs, or those BKs had the courage to speak out.

My contacts tell me that, yes, there have been rumblings about "ex-communication".

I'd love to see the SS try ... It will backfire on them.

bansy

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Post20 Dec 2006

Brother Mitra

Here are some extracts of BK Sakar Murlis (morning class) yesterday and today :

19 Dec 2006: page 2
"The spiritual Father is teaching us souls. ShivBaba, who is the Father of us souls, is teaching us. We are now sitting personally in front of ShivBaba."

20 Dec 2006: page 1
"The Incorporeal One definitely needs a mouth and that is why this one is called the Lucky Chariot (Bhagarith). He would only explain with a mouth. He gives the direction: Manmanbhav. So He would definitely say this with a mouth. There can be no question of inspiration in this. The Father sits here and explains ..."

If we are to read this in the conext of pre-1969, sure, it makes sense. However, if we are to read them today, it makes no sense. Then why are BKs attending morning classes, and why bother to read the the Sakar Murlis unless the Father is speaking via the person on the gaddi each morning, simultanously aound all the centres around the world. That's a lot of chariots for Father Shiva to do at the same time.

shivsena

ex-PBK

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Post20 Dec 2006

bansy wrote:If we are to read this in the conext of pre-1969, sure, it makes sense. However, if we are to read them today, it makes no sense. Then why are BKs attending morning classes, and why bother to read the the Sakar Murlis unless the Father is speaking via the person on the gaddi each morning, simultanously aound all the centres around the world. That's a lot of chariots for Father Shiva to do at the same time.

Dear bansy Bhai.
You have raised a very apt and very logical query and if this query is to be understood clearly, then one has to understand one vital fact as to who are the souls, to whom Shivbap has spoken the Murlis in the first place.

In a couple of days i will post my churning on this very important aspect of how to read and interpret the Murlis.

shivsena.
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sparkal

BK supporter

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Post20 Dec 2006

The BKs need to consider whether they should be willing to compromise a little and work on other people's terms rather than their own, sorry, Baba's. Oh well, that's it then, we are all wrong and they are exclusively right.

Flexibility is not a virtue, domineering totalitarianism is, or would appear to be. In short, you must live a certain distance from a centre to get the Murli I think. Because we are Baba's children I presume :? (?).
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mitra

BK

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Post22 Dec 2006

bansy wrote:If we are to read this in the conext of pre-1969, sure, it makes sense. However, if we are to read them today, it makes no sense. Then why are BKs attending morning classes, and why bother to read the the Sakar Murlis unless the Father is speaking via the person on the gaddi each morning, simultanously aound all the centres around the world. That's a lot of chariots for Father Shiva to do at the same time.

Dear Bansy,

Only one reads the Sakar Murli, do one gets the complete picture of Yagya. Avyakt Murli, even though very strong, will not be easily digested especially for new BK souls.

IBHS
MITRA
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john

reforming BK

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Post22 Dec 2006

Mitra wrote:Only one reads the Sakar Murli, do one gets the complete picture of Yagya. Avyakt Murli even though very strong will not be easily digested especially for new BK souls.

What do you mean strong?

I think the Avyakt Vanis are easier to understand, the only topics are virtues and praise of service around the world. Why is ShivaBaba hardly ever mentioned in Avyakt Vanis? With peices missing from Sakar Murlis they are given a different meaning.

If you want to read something insightful, why not try the Murli Clarifications?

bansy

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Post22 Dec 2006

Mitra wrote:Avyakt Murli even though very strong will not be easily digested especially for new BK souls.

Dear Brother
Hope you are not implying that a new BK has a lower intellect than longer serving BK ?
Only one reads the Sakar Murli, do one gets the complete picture of Yagya.

OK, not sure what you mean by "complete" picture though, as Sakar Murlis then mean the Yagya from 1936 to 1969. If someone joins the BKWSU in 2006, does that mean there is no story of the Yagya from 1969 to 2006 to be spoken or discussed in the class each morning for this new BK ?

When BKs speak to Seniors and Dadis, they often talk about the "good old days" when BB (Lekhraj Kirpalani) was around, and "when I met Baba, this ... so and so ..." or "during the time when Baba was ... Baba used to ... etc". Not much is ever spoken about "modern age Yagya" from 1969.

bansy

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Post23 Dec 2006

bansy wrote:Not much is ever spoken about "modern age Yagya" from 1969.

I'll add that to know what is happening in the Yagya, the articles in World Renewal and Purity and Gyan Amrit magazines, give reports on service. However, these are not all distributed to each soul, whereas the Murli (Vani) is.
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tinydot

ex-BK

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Re: Murlis : In the Present tense or in the Past tense forma

Post25 Dec 2006

bansy wrote:Do Sakar Murlis (revised ones of pre-69) that are read each morning Monday to Saturdays at BK centres, are they to be listened and read in the past tense, or in the present tense ?

Sister Bansy,
In my opinion, the essence of the Murli is not a function of x,y,z,t (space and time in 4 dimensions) i.e. the essense is eternal. It is a function of the intellectual understanding. The "story" of the Murli though must be read and interpreted in the past tense.

Question.
    Why are Murlis being written with "Essence" on the top as invented by BKs?
    Are we sure that is "The Essence" or that is a "story"?
Anyways, have a great holiday to you and your family.

bansy

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Post25 Dec 2006

tinydot wrote:The "story" of the Murli though must be read and interpreted in the past tense.

If God wants to complete His task and has a choice, would He speak in the present tense or in the past tense ? This is the true essence of God for me. Anyway for me God needs no choice, He speaks to me today for today.

Happy holidays to you, and all too.
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