The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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arjun

PBK

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Post06 Feb 2007

Khormozian wrote:The name on the compilations is Avyakt BapDada in English.

Thanks for the information.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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arjun

PBK

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Post06 Feb 2007

Mr.Green wrote:I still have an old Avyakt book from before BK publications was set up as an independent business from the BKs. On these books and tapes it clearly stated that these can be copied and distributed free to anyone ... oh, the days of Shrimat!

Mr.Green.

This is a very important information. If you could scan the concerned page and upload it on this site it would be prove useful, in case the BKs decide to use the shield of copyright against the seekers of knowledge.

It is also requested to preserve the same.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

bansy

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Post06 Feb 2007

As you know anything from this world is made up of the elements, and that includes our beautiful hairy bodies right down to the previous Avyakt books. So any ownership of books is ownership of old world elements. So if there is no attachment to these Murlis/Vanis, such as copyrights, then these Murlis and Vanis can go back and belong back to the world in which they originated from. So why would the BKWSU be concerned about having Murlis/Vanis shown to the public at large ? Even the ink is from the old world.
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john

reforming BK

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Post06 Feb 2007

Mr Green wrote:I still have an old Avyakt book from before BK publications was set up as an independent business from the BKs. On these books and tapes it clearly stated that these can be copied and distributed free to anyone ... oh, the days of Shrimat!

That would definitely be useful to have on the site, well done Mr Sherlock Green!
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ex-l

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Post06 Feb 2007

Mr Green wrote:I still have an old Avyakt book from before BK publications was set up as an independent business from the BKs. On these books and tapes it clearly stated that these can be copied and distributed free to anyone ... oh, the days of Shrimat!

In short ... the BKWSU are absolutely bollocked then. At the very least on the Murlis/Vanis that they realised at that time. And it would seriously weaken their claim on any others. Once copyrights are released, they cannot be taken back easily or at all.

Yes, a list of dates of the books and Murlis at the very least would be all that is required.
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john

reforming BK

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Obtaining Murlis

Post07 Feb 2007

In what ways is it now possible to get Murlis? Can they be posted?

I am talking about any and every possible way now prescribed by BKs under any circumstances.
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arjun

PBK

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Post07 Feb 2007

In what ways is it now possible to get Murlis?

If you are a BK (preferably a pukka BK) you can get photocopies (xerox copies) of the Murlis for your record/study.
Can they be posted?

Are you talking about obtaining the Murlis by post? If yes, then I suppose it is only the official centers and sub-centers of BKWSU which receive it by post. I don't know if any old and/or influential BKs also receive it by post.

But I have heard that many BK students receive Murlis from the BK headquarters through email. I recently met an old BK friend who fathered a son last year and he told me that he receives Murlis through email. So he does not need to attend the daily classes at center. He can read the same from the comforts of the office. When a not-so-regular BK like him can receive Murlis by email, then I suppose there must be hundreds of other regular/devoted/influential BKs who might be receiving Murlis through email daily.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

bansy

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Post07 Feb 2007

old BK friend who fathered a son last year and he told me that he receives Murlis

Gosh, what is the BKWSU coming to nowadays.

Well, John, and for the rest of you big boys out there, now you know how you can get the Murlis ! Quick matas and patas, lock up your daughters ... :roll:
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john

reforming BK

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Post07 Feb 2007

• In what year were the Murlis first available in written form?
• Can anyone say, yes I have seen a Murli dated from the 1940's, 50's or 60's?
• In what year were the first recordings made of BrahmaBaba speaking Murli?
• When was the first English translated Murli?
• If no one knows the answers on this forum then who would know?

shivsena

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Post08 Feb 2007

John wrote:• In what year were the Murlis first available in written form?
• Can anyone say, yes I have seen a Murli dated from the 1940's, 50's or 60's?
• In what year were the first recordings made of BrahmaBaba speaking Murli?
• When was the first English translated Murli?
• If no one knows the answers on this forum then who would know?

Dear john Bhai.
You have raised very valid queries and the answers can be got only from the senior BKs;
I feel that only the Murlis recited after the demise of Mama Saraswati are available to the BKs and PBKs ;i guess the Murlis before that period were never printed(only recorded) and hence they are not in circulation; also i feel that all the secrets of knowledge was given by Shivbap in a code form, only after the demise of Mama in june 1965 (till jan 1969) ; proof in the first avaykt Vani dated 21-1-69 which clearly says "now the time for study is approaching very near and this has been hinted in each Murli after Mama has gone" ; this statement clearly indicates that only after the demise of Mama in 1965, that Shivbap started revealing the secrets of knowledge in code form and before that period, the stress was layed only on dharna and meditation; also i feel that the word "Ramshivbaba" was never uttered in any Murli before june 1965 and also the points refering to 'Advance Party' were also never mentioned even once in those Murlis before 1965; the reason for this is very easy to understand; because Shivbap knew that Mama(Goddess of knowledge) was very intelligent and she would have recogised the need of another Chariot and another party in future; hence the secrets of knowledge were kept hidden by Shivbap till the demise of Mama and they were revealed only after she had gone. So in essence, it is the Murlis of these 3 1/2 years (from june 1965 to jan 1969) which are very important and which have to be churned intensely to know the secrets of knowledge.
Shivsena
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Mr Green

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Post08 Feb 2007

The Murli batches are still sent out by post but only to centres or 'oked' individuals,

Postal distribution is discouraged these days and everyone is encouraged to download them from an official Murli website. Anyone can access the site but you need a password to get to the Murli downloads themselves.

They are downloaded in an encoded format using PGP software, so once downloaded the files have to be decoded before thay can be printed etc

This system has always been abused, especially by the Hindi community, who seem to (quite rightly) take the fear of disobedience with a a grain of salt. They share their passwords so many people just download them at home. I used to download the Murlis for the centre and you could get batches up to 3 weeks in advance of the reading date.

Also, you would receive the Murli noticeboard that sometimes would contain semi-sensitive info for the eyes of centrewasis only.
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sparkal

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Post10 Feb 2007

The best way to get the Murli is to go to your local centre and catch the live broadcast.

I bumped into a Sister recently who invited me to the last Murli. I did not go in the end, but may do at some point in future. It is our "birthright" after all. Whether it should be made available to a wider circle whose birthright it is also? Perhaps that time is approaching.
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sparkal

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Post13 Feb 2007

For the last/ recent Murli, the Seniors were called to Madhuban(?), is there any news for us Murli dodgers of what was said to the would be presidents? Don't say I am going to have to go through the black market again just to here what the old boy is saying. It is costing me dearly in stockings this you know.
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arjun

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Post21 Feb 2007

Omshanti.

I don't remember the exact thread, but I remember that Sister Bansy or someone else had once asked whether the BKs make any changes in the Avyakt Vanis in Hindi or in English. I remember having replied that the BKs might not be making changes in the English translation of Avyakt Vanis, but I have been proved wrong by the following extract from an Avyakt Vani dated 12.12.83:

"Naye bhi baithey hai aur Maharathi bhi baithey hain. Dono saamney hain. Sabsey zyada sameep Gujarat hai na. Sameep kay saath sahyogi bhi Gujarat vaaley hain. Sahyog may Gujarat ka number Rajasthan say aagey hai. Abu Rajasthan hai? Vaisey Rajasthan nazdeek hai na. Rajasthan kay raajey bhi jaagein toh kamaal karengey. Abhi gupt hain. Fir pratyaksh ho jayega. Gujarat ka janma kaisey hua, pataa hai? Gujarat ko pehley sahyog diya gaya. Sahyog kay jal say beej padaa hua hai. Toh fal bhi sahyog ka hee niklega na. Gujarat ko direct BapDada kay sankalp kay sahyog ka paani milaa hai. Isliye fal bhi sahyog ka hee nikaltaa hai. Samjha! Gujarat vaaley kitney bhaagyavaan ho! Gujarat may BapDada nay center khola hai. Gujarat nay nahee khola hai. Isliye na chaahtey huay bhi sahaj hee sahyog ka fal nikaltaa hee rahega. Aapko mehnat nahee karnee padegi. Kisi bhi kaarya may aapko mehnat nahee karnee padegi. Dharani sahyog kay fal kee hai." (page 44 & 45 of the Hindi version of the compilation of Avyakt Vanis, 1983-84)

"The new ones as well as the Maharathis are sitting here. Both are in front. Gujarat is the nearest amongst all is not it? Along with that, being near it is co-operative as well. In cooperation Gujarat is ahead of Rajasthan. (Nirwair Bhai said Abu is in Rajasthan therefore Gujarat is helping Rajasthan). Does Abu belong to Rajasthan only? (No). Abu belongs to the whole world. One day the kings of Rajasthan will be awakened, they will come into the open. Gujarat is sitting in front so therefore it is praise of Gujarat. But do you know how Gujarat was born? Gujarat was given help. The seed has been watered with the help of co-operation, then what will the fruit be like? Won't it also be first in the fruit of co-operation. It was watered by the direct help of BapDada's thoughts. (BapDada had a thought to start service in Ahmedabad and sent Janki Dadi and Sarla bahen directly). Do you know just how lucky Gujarat is? It was BapDada's inspiration that led to the opening of a center. The founder is here (Sarla bahen). It was not opened by a Gujarat resident. This is why Gujarat will always achieve the fruit because the seed has been sown directly by BapDada Himself, therefore no efforts necessary. You can go ahead with an open heart. The land is very very fertile it will give maximum fruit."

It may kindly be noted that both the Hindi and English versions of the above Avyakt Vani are the official BK versions. The English version of the same has been quoted from a compilation of Avyakt Vanis from 1983-84 season titled "Avyakt BapDada - 1983-84". The second page of the book says "Translated and adapted for print by students of London Center" (page 24 & 25 of the English version of the compilation of Avyakt Vanis, 1983-84)

The above quotation can be taken as an example of the changes/manipulations that the BKs make while translating the Avyakt Vanis from Hindi to English. Whatever is written within brackets in English (marked in blue colour) is not available in the original Hindi text. Although there are changes in most of the sentences, the sentences which have more changes, or which have been added anew in the English text have been marked in bold letters.
The following sentences (apart from whatever has been written within brackets) which appear in the English text are not available in the Hindi text at all:
    1. Abu belongs to the whole world.
    2. Gujarat is sitting in front so therefore it is praise of Gujarat.
    3. The founder is here.
    4. because the seed has been sown directly by BapDada Himself
    5. You can go ahead with an open heart.
    6. it will give maximum fruit.
Apart from this some sentences which are available in the Hindi text have not been translated into English. Such sentences have been marked with bold letters in the Hindi text.

The comparison between the actual English translation of the Hindi text and the English translation provided by the BKs would be presented in the next post.

Has the matter that appears within brackets in the English text added to please some souls whose names appear in the above text. Ditto for the deletions/additions made in the English text.

This post does not aim to criticize the BKs, but to bring to the notice of non-Hindi speaking the glaring changes that have been made in the English translation of the Hindi text which is considered to be Godly versions by the BKs. I don't think such major changes are made in the translation of texts belonging to any other religion.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

freefall

ex-BK

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Post21 Feb 2007

ex-l wrote:In India, did the Government keep official records of births and deaths back in the 1890s? I would have thought that the British brought that in and it would have been a simple matter of public records.

Official records were kept only for the births in hospital. Even now in India less than one fifth births are in hospital. Majority of the births are in home. I am told that I was also born in our home. There is no official record of my birth anywhere. So if tomorrow Shiva decides to use my body as channel, you guys will end up bickering about "freefall" Baba's true age :)

Nowadays it is mandated by government that people apply for birth certificate as soon as their is an addition in family. However, a government office in India is synonymous with corruption and most of the people don't have any use for the scrap of paper called birth certificate, so they simply forgo the hassle of applying for it.

I am sure the record keeping wouldn't have been any better in Dada Lekhraj's time.
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