The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of

The comparison between the actual English translation of the Hindi text and the English translation provided by the BKs would be presented in the next post.

The official BK translation of the complete paragraph of an Avyakt Vani dated 12.12.83:

"The new ones as well as the Maharathis are sitting here. Both are in front. Gujarat is the nearest amongst all is not it? Along with that, being near it is co-operative as well. In cooperation Gujarat is ahead of Rajasthan. (Nirwair Bhai said Abu is in Rajasthan therefore Gujarat is helping Rajasthan). Does Abu belong to Rajasthan only? (No). Abu belongs to the whole world. One day the kings of Rajasthan will be awakened, they will come into the open. Gujarat is sitting in front so therefore it is praise of Gujarat. But do you know how Gujarat was born? Gujarat was given help. The seed has been watered with the help of co-operation, then what will the fruit be like? Won't it also be first in the fruit of co-operation. It was watered by the direct help of BapDada's thoughts. (BapDada had a thought to start service in Ahmedabad and sent Janki Dadi and Sarla bahen directly). Do you know just how lucky Gujarat is? It was BapDada's inspiration that led to the opening of a center. The founder is here (Sarla bahen). It was not opened by a Gujarat resident. This is why Gujarat will always achieve the fruit because the seed has been sown directly by BapDada Himself, therefore no efforts necessary. You can go ahead with an open heart. The land is very very fertile it will give maximum fruit."

And here is an English translation of the Hindi paragraph done by a PBK.

"The new ones as well as the Maharathis are sitting here. Both are in front. Gujarat is the nearest amongst all, is not it? In addition to being near, the residents of Gujarat are co-operative as well. In the matter of cooperation Gujarat is ahead of Rajasthan. Is Abu Rajasthan? As such, Rajasthan is close, isn’t it? If the kings of Rajasthan also get awakened, then they will work wonders. Now they are incognito. Then it would get revealed. Do you know how Gujarat was born? Gujarat was initially given help. The seed has been sown with the water of co-operation. So the fruits that emerge would also be fruits of co-operation, isn’t it? Gujarat received the water of cooperation of the thoughts of BapDada directly. That is why it is the fruits of cooperation only that emerge. Did you realize just how lucky the residents of Gujarat are! It was BapDada who opened a center in Gujarat. Gujarat has not opened. This is why the fruits of cooperation would always keep emerging automatically and easily. You will not have to make efforts. You will not have to make efforts in any task. The land is one that produces fruits of cooperation."

The sentences marked in bold letters in the official BK English version are the ones that are not available in the original Hindi text.

The sentences marked in bold letters in the PBK English version are the ones that are available in the original Hindi text, but were omitted in the official BK English version.

My only request to the members/readers is to certify that the original BK Hindi & English versions that I have reproduced are the same as they appear in the official books published by the BKs in Hindi and English. I think BK Mitra can do the certification of the Hindi version while any of the souls who have a copy of the compilation of the Avyakt Vanis of the 1984-84 season in English published by the BKs can certify the official English BK version that I have reproduced. I am making this request because in India we PBKs have a common experience that while explaining to BKs with the help of photocopies of the Murlis/Avyakt Vanis we hear comments that the PBKs have cooked up their own versions.

This little help would go a long way in establishing the authenticity of such analysis.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

This little help would go a long way in establishing the authenticity of such analysis.

And what a lottery it is depending on the BKWSU machine for a straight and honest translation ... never mind the stuff they are cutting out. Yet they still insist it is God's verbatim words.

I have read a sort of arrogance or supercilliousness from even a Western BK about the PBK and Murlis, and so it proves the Indian Senior Sisters are using their networks to speak badly about the PBKs with such standard answers.

But your attention to detail proves them wrong yet again.

I don't condemn the junior BK in question for such a Bland response because I am quite sure he knows what is going on and was just acting defensively so as not to rock the Godly boat ... but I am very happy not to have to be defending the like any more.

And what a lottery it is depending on the BKWSU machine for a straight and honest translation ... never mind the stuff they are cutting out. Yet they still insist it is God's verbatim words.

Avyakt BapDada knows what his children are doing to his words. That is why he had advised way back in 1984 to his children to learn Hindi. But his children cut those words of advice also. See for yourself:

ORIGINAL Hindi TEXT PUBLISHED BY THE BKs:

"Abhi Hindi kay akshar Yaad kar lo – thodo-thoda toh Hindi seekhengey na. Jab yahaan thodey bahut sanskar daalengey tab toh Satyug may bhi bol sakengey. Vahaan toh yah aapki gitpit kee bhaasha hogi nahee. Hindi na samajhney kaaran direct toh Baap ka nahee suntey ho na. Agar seekh jaayengey toh direct sunengey. BapDada samajhtey hain- bachhey direct sunein, direct sun-ney say aur mazaa aayega." [/i[i]](Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit Avyakt Vani, dinaank 1.3.84, pg 184, German group say baat kartey huay)

ORIGINAL English TRANSLATION OF THE ABOVE LINES BY THE BKs:

“Learn some Hindi words. By learning a little Hindi, you create these sanskars here, then you will be able to speak it there. There you won’t have any complicated languages. It will be natural. BapDada understands that children enjoy hearing Baba directly.” (Avyakt Vani dated 1.3.84, pg 142 published by BKs in English, while speaking to German group)

English TRANSLATION OF THE ABOVE Hindi LINES RENDERED BY A PBK:

“Now remember (some of) the words of Hindi – you would learn a little Hindi, won’t you? Only when you imbibe little bit of this sanskar here, will you be able to speak in the Golden Age also. There won’t be your complicated languages there. Because of not being able to understand Hindi, you are not listening to the Father directly, isn’t it? If you learn (to speak Hindi) then you would listen directly. BapDada feels that – the children should listen directly; you would enjoy more by listening directly.” (English translation of the above mentioned extracts of Avyakt Vani dated 1.3.84 in Hindi rendered by PBKs)

Kindly note that almost half of BapDada's words have been omitted in the original English translation published by the BKs. The words marked in bold letters in the BK version are those which are not available in the original Hindi text at all. The words marked in bold letters in the PBK version are those which have been omitted in the official BK English version.

May be the BK administration did not/does not want the foreigners to learn Hindi. May be they feared/fear that they would know the truth.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Really?

Omshanti.
I am not sure if I can post this piece of information on this forum or not.

A discussion on the subject of 'access to Murlis' is going on in the discussion forum of BKs' Aussie forum. An Admin. member named 'Mitra' of that forum had once written that Murlis cannot be made available online and that one should visit the BK center to have Murlis. But after other members put forth their arguements 'Mitra' has intimated that he has written to Madhuban on this issue and that he is awaiting a response.

Madhuban's official response would be interesting for the members of this forum too, I suppose!

If this post is not permitted the Admin. may kindly delete it.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

If you, or anyone reading this, feel a desire to democratize the whole delivery of the Murlis and open them up to the world, please drop us off you passwords or a copy of them.

Do you think the BK IT team keep track of the IP addresses of those who log into the Murli website?

If the team do keep track of IP addresses, it would know that a certain BK who disclosed his/her userid and password, would have downloaded the Murlis several times a week at different locations.

If BKs have an objective of not having the Murli fall into the hands of the public or specially the PBK, then, I would supposed they monitor the incoming IP addresses logging in the Murli encrypted website. Or maybe, they have no time to do all this kind of monitoring thing because their intellect is becoming divine.

Do you think the BK IT team keep track of the IP addresses of those who log into the Murli website. If the team do keep track of IP addresses, it would know that a certain BK who disclosed his/her userid and password, would have downloaded the Murlis several times a week at different locations. If BKs have an objective of not having the Murli fall into the hands of the public or specially the PBK, then, I would supposed they monitor the incoming IP addresses logging in the Murli encrypted website.

It is very much possible.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Omshanti.
Recently I happened to purchase (through a friend) the compilation of 'Avyakt BapDada's Murlis-1970-January to December' published in English by BKs.

The page before the 'contents' page says:

Printed Shantivan, Talathi, Mount Abu, Rajasthan, India

Translated and Edited by
Brahma Kumaris Information Services Ltd.
Global Co-operation House
65 Pound Lane, London NW102HH

Copyright-2001 BrahmaKumaris I.V.V
Mount Abu

Copyright notice:
No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, manual, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording or otherwise without the prior written permission of the copyright owner. All rights reserved.

When did ShivBaba (through Brahma Baba) or Avyakt BapDada (through Gulzar Dadiji) direct the BK Administration to set up a public limited company named "Brahma Kumaris Information Services Ltd." publish Godly versions? I was thinking all the way that Baba belongs to everyone, irrespective of caste, creed, nationality, language, colour barriers. But the above Copyright notice means that before uttering/writing 'My Baba' I would have to obtain written permission from a commercial Company? Would I have to buy stocks of this Company to reserve a palace in heaven?

Since the Book has been translated and Edited by the above company based in London, I suppose the Copyright was also obtained from the Copyrights Department/Office of the UK Government. If so can the London based members please extract any more information regarding the details of this Copyright, namely whether BKWSU has mentioned anywhere in the Copyrights documents whether the versions published in the book are Godly versions or the versions of BK Gulzar Dadi? In case they say that these versions are Godly versions then it would be safe for anyone to reproduce extracts from the Book on this forum because even if the matter of Copyrights violation went to Court one could argue that how can Godly version be copyrighted when the versions of his children/messengers like Abraham, Buddha, Christ, Mohammad, Moses, Shankaracharya, Guru Nanak, Dayanand Saraswati, etc. have not been copyrighted so far although they have been in existence since a long time on this Earth.

The above book does not anywhere mention as to the author/narrator of the versions published in the book. In fact there is no Introduction page. There is just the 'Contents' page plus a page titled 'Editorial' with mentions about Typographical Conventions used in this edition, Quotation Marks, Non-English words, English words used by BapDada.

In the absence of any mention of the author/narrator of the versions, the BKWSU is at an advantage if the matter goes to Court. They can turn the case in their favour by simply telling that the versions have been spoken by BK Gulzar Dadiji. The book is also conspicuous by the absence of any photograph of Avyakt BapDada along with the photo of Brahma Baba in the background which is compulsorily found in all the Copyrighted Hindi versions of the Avyakt Vanis published by the BKs.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Would I have to buy stocks of this Company to reserve a palace in heaven?

No, but you would have to be a Sindhi. And its a limited private company not a 'Public Unlimited Company'.

Since the Book has been translated and Edited by the above company based in London, I suppose the Copyright was also obtained from the Copyrights Department/Office of the UK Government. If so can the London based members please extract any more information regarding the details of this Copyright, namely whether BKWSU has mentioned anywhere in the Copyrights documents whether the versions published in the book are Godly versions or the versions of BK Gulzar Dadi?

Thank you for this Arjun. It breaks my heart to. It is so sick.

Copyright in the UK is basically automatic. You do not have to obtain it, you just have to claim it and defend it. The English Legal system is adversarial. You have to fight for your rights.

The funny thing is ... if the copyright is owned by a limited company, then it means that it is owned by the human beings that are the directors and secretary of that company not God or Gulzar.

Business as usual ...

The book is also conspicuous by the absence of any photograph of Avyakt BapDada along with the photo of Brahma Baba in the background which is compulsorily found in all the Copyrighted Hindi versions of the Avyakt Vanis published by the BKs.

Yes, BapDada is too Indian, and freaky, for the Western market and so they keep them in the background.

Arjun, can you tell me are the Hindi version of the Avyakt Vanis published by the BKs generally available? I mean, can a member of the public just walk into a BK center and buy some?

Do they have book numbers or are they private publications that only BKs can buy after a certain time? Are they given away to members of the public and do they have copyright notes? Have they been re-written as usual?

The early ones in the UK were copyright free.

Dear All,
Omshanti. The cutting of Murlis used to happen even at the time of Brahma Baba when the Murlis used to be handwritten and sent to BKs all over India by post. This cutting of Murli points during those days has been acknowledged by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba in one of the Murlis narrated during those days, a revised version of which has been published by BKs on 12.3.07.

• “Murli likhna bahut achhi service hai, sabhi khush hongey, aasheervaad karengey. Baba akshar bahut achhey hain. Nahee toh likhtey hain akshar achhey nahee. Baba hamko Vani cut karke bhej detey hain. Hamaarey ratnon kee chori ho jaati hai. Baba ham adhikaari hain – jo aapkey mukhh say ratna nikaltey hain vah sab hamaarey paas aaney chaahiye. Yah kahengey vahee jo ananya hongey. Murli kee seva bahut achhi reeti karnee chaahiye. Sabhi bhashaen seekhnee chaahiye. Marathi, Gujrati aadi...Jaisey Baba rahamdil hai bachhon ko bhi rahamdil ban-na hai.” (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 12.03.07, pg.3)

• “Writing Murlis is a very good service; everyone would feel happy; they would give blessings. Baba the writing (akshar or letters) is very good. Otherwise they write that the writing is not good. Baba, they cut and send the Vanis to us. Our gems are stolen. Baba we are entitled that – all the gems that emerge from your mouth should reach us. These words would be spoken only by those who are ananya (in literal sense it means unique, but could also mean ‘dear ones’). The service of Murlis should be done very nicely. One must learn all the languages. Marathi, Gujarati, etc... Just as Baba is merciful, the children must also become merciful.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 12.03.07, pg.3 published by BKs)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Note: The translation has been done by a PBK and the words appearing within brackets have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning of the Hindi word)

• Writing Murlis is a very good service; everyone would feel happy; they would give blessings. Baba the writing (akshar or letters) is very good. Otherwise they write that the writing is not good. Baba, they cut and send the Vanis to us. Our gems are stolen. Baba we are entitled that – all the gems that emerge from your mouth should reach us. These words would be spoken only by those who are ananya (in literal sense it means unique, but could also mean ‘dear ones’).

Does this mean the ones who are asking for the full gems (all Murlis) are the unique or dear ones?

If so that makes us pretty special and probably 99% of practicing BKs not so special (or dumb asses)

Arjun, can you tell me are the Hindi version of the Avyakt Vanis published by the BKs generally available? I mean, can a member of the public just walk into a BK center and buy some? Do they have book numbers or are they private publications that only BKs can buy after a certain time? Are they given away to members of the public and do they have copyright notes? Have they been re-written as usual?

Dear ex-l,

Sorry for the delayed reply. Actually, I had not seen your querry until I made the last post in this thread. The Hindi versions of the Avyakt Vanis are available to all the BKs at the literature department of BKWSU at Mount Abu/Shantivan, Taleti. But I do not know if they sell it even to non-BKs or not.

No, they do not bear any book numbers (even the copyrighted ones). When I checked up my record of Hindi Avyakt Vani books, I found that first compilation of Avyakt Vanis to be copyrighted pertained to the year 1995-96. The compilation of the previous year, i.e. 1994-95 contains just a warning that 'no part of this book may be printed without the permission of the publisher." Again the compilation pertaining to the years 1996-1998 does not bear any copyright notice. But after that almost all the compilations have copyright notice. Further, the compilations of Avyakt Vanis pertaining to the period from 1969 to 1994, which were earlier published without copyrights have now been reprinted with copyright notice. I don't know if that means that those who have the non-copyrighted versions of the above period can quote those Avyakt Vanis or not?

So, the conclusion is that as on date all the so-called Godly versions spoken through BK Gulzar Dadiji have been copyrighted and none of God's children on Earth can propagate the Godly versions without the legal permission from the 'Guardians of God'. May God save Himself from His Guardians.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

It is all acting anyhow, this is the next truth that will break IMHO. That there is no spirit 'entering her' (oooer) at all, she has a rough script to work to. Have you not noticed how nothing of consequence is ever said in the new Avyakt Murlis??????

It is one page if your lucky about how your not ready yet and not to be a bad person and that BapDada can clap and make it happen at any time but is not going to because it's not in the drama ... blah blah blah blah ... then you get 5 pages of her saying hello to all the groups ... what a drag

Like John, I, too, am with you Mr. Green. This God is so elementary and superficial. For how long is he or she going to continue to repeat the same things? What a drag it is alright!!! It all sounds hollow.

Like John, I, too, am with you Mr. Green. This God is so elementary and superficial. For how long is he or she going to continue to repeat the same things? What a drag it is alright!!! It all sounds hollow.

In the ears of the beholder, methinks. Musicians continue to reuse the same idioms, whatever their genre. The Sakar Murlis also had a particular idiom, such that many of us could fake them if necessary, for example in a cultural program. So some BKs had the same complaint about the Sakar Murlis.

Good home-cooked food can be seen as familiar and nourishing, or boring and repetitive depending on whether the partaker is an adult, or a child going through her vegetable-hating stage or other rebellion.