The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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arjun

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Post06 Dec 2007

Quoted from the BK section for record purpose:

50.

"Bhaarat Parampita Parmatma kee birth place hai. Bhaarat may Bhagwaan aaya hai. Jaroor swarg sthaapan kiya hoga. Shiv jayanti bhi manaai jaati hai. Tum likh bhi saktey ho - ham falaanaa birth day manaa rahey hain. 1937 may sthaapnaa hui thi. Ab 70 varsh (2007 may) poorey huay. Toh manushya wonder khaayengey, yah kya kahtey hain? Badhaai bhi doh. Bataao ham patit-paavan, sadgati daataa Parampita Parmatma Shiv kee jayanti manaa rahey hain. Us din bahut shaadmaanaa karnaa chaahiye. Sarva kay sadgati daataa kee jayanti kam baat hai kya? Aeroplane dwara parchey badey-badey shahron may giraaney chaahiye. Toh akhbaaron may bhi padega. Bahut sundar-sundar card banaaney chaahiye. Most beloved Baap kee bahut mahima likhnee chaahiye. Bhaarat ko fir say swarg banaaney aaya hai. Vahee Baap Rajyog sikhlaa rahey hain. Varsa bhi vahee detey hain. Bahut bhabhkey kay Shiv Jayanti kay card chapaaney chaahiye. Plastic par bhi chap saktey hain." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 19.10.07, pg 2)

"Bhaarat (India) is the birth place of the Supreme Father Supreme Soul. God has come in India. Certainly He must have established heaven. Shiv Jayanti (Birthday of Shiv) is also celebrated. You can even write - we are celebrating such and such birthday. It was established in 1937. Now, 70 years have been completed (in 2007). Then people would wonder - what are these people telling? You also congratulate them. Tell (them) - We are celebrating the birthday of the purifier of the sinful ones, bestower of the true salvation, the Supreme Father, Supreme Soul Shiv. One should celebrate a lot that day. The birthday of the bestower of true salvation upon everyone is not a small matter. One should drop pamphlets on the big cities through aeroplanes. Then it will be published in the newspapers also. Very beautiful cards should be prepared. The glory of the most beloved Father should be written. He has come to make India heaven once again. The same Father is teaching Rajyog. It is He only who gives the inheritance. Very impressive cards of Shivjayanti should be got printed. They can be printed on plastic also." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.10.07, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

Omshanti. It is obvious that the above-mentioned underlined sentences might not have been in the original Sakar Murli in the same form as they appear above. I also doubt if ShivBaba (through Brahma Baba) had actually mentioned the year 1937 as the year of establishment of the Yagya in the original Murli narrated before 1969.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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bansy

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Post06 Dec 2007

Dear Arjunbhai

Thanks for noticing this point.

I mentioned this to some BKs who produced the following official English version is :

"We are now celebrating 50th or 60th birthday. The establishment of this took place in 1937. It is now the year 2007 so it is 70 years since it started."
Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.10.07, pg 2 published by BKs in English.

The daily Sakar Murlis spoken each morning at the BK centres worldwide are thus not entirely from the original words of God but edited (human) versions. .

It will be up to students of Raja Yoga to decide how much of these versions are of the true original words of God. To remind all folks, a Sakar Murli is that spoken by Father Shiva via the Chariot of Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) prior to the passing of Lekhraj Kirpalani in 1969. Thus the Sakar Murlis spoken daily from Monday to Saturdays at BK centres worldwide, are all The Knowledge Gyan and Yoga points and events contained up to 18 January 1969.

Unless the BKWSU issues the original versions of the Sakar Murlis with the original dates of each Murli on each copy, it can therefore not be ascertainable whether the current daily Murlis are the true words of God or simply edited versions made by humans and thus prone to errors, faults and manipulation.

There are many in the the BKWSU who will now need to prove it has not defamed the Yagya themselves and all the thousands of souls since 1969 to the present day.

By all means continue to churn some of the useful elements of the teachings offered in these Murlis. However, their credibility is now at stake and you can consider your search for truth via the BKWSU somehow tarnished with the current teachings of the BKWSU.
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sparkal

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edited by humans ?

Post06 Dec 2007

The editing of the Sakar Murli is one thing, but saying that it has been done by "humans" is going a bit far Bansy. :lol:
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bansy

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Post06 Dec 2007

There aren't any dieties yet, so I guess we are all still humans. There are the subtle angels but that's also just a dream for now. The "human" is the human soul of the Confluence Age in the body of a physical human being.

There is one possible way out in which the Murlis could have been edited and be accepted and that would have been for Father Shiva to have entered the body of the soul or souls who edits the Murlis in the Murli team. :roll:

But the real puzzle of the Raja Yoga saga is there seems to be definitely original Murlis held by certain parties, maybe even amongst some members on this forum, who could afford to put a just a few of these on the forum to illustrate any alterations and edits, or there being none at all, but it has not been done yet. The power of truth really is very powerful. It can either make one open one's own eyes, or it can make one own eyes blind, without even realising it.
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arjun

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Post07 Dec 2007

Sister Bansy wrote:I mentioned this to some BKs who produced the following official English version is :

Omshanti and thanks for quoting the official BK version of the extracts of the Murli quoted by me. For the convenience of comparing the official Hindi version with the official BK translation and PBK translation I am producing the following lines:

"Tum likh bhi saktey ho - ham falaanaa birth day manaa rahey hain. 1937 may sthaapnaa hui thi. Ab 70 varsh (2007 may) poorey huay."

"We are now celebrating 50th or 60th birthday. The establishment of this took place in 1937. It is now the year 2007 so it is 70 years since it started."

"You can even write - we are celebrating such and such birthday. It was established in 1937. Now, 70 years have been completed (in 2007)."


From the above it is clear that the official BK translation is not correct except the second sentence. There is no mention of 50th or 60th birthday in the official Hindi version. Apart from this, the year 2007 has been mentioned in the Hindi version within brackets, which indicates that it has been added by the Editor for the convenience of understanding. But in the official English version of the BKs, the year 2007 has not been mentioned within brackets, which means that it was spoken by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba, which is not at all possible since the Murlis were spoken before 1969.

So, the above comparison of official BK English version with the official BK Hindi version shows that those who cannot read Hindi are being taken for a ride :wink: . But everyone knows who is paying for the ride!!! :lol:
But the real puzzle of the Raja Yoga saga is there seems to be definitely original Murlis held by certain parties, maybe even amongst some members on this forum, who could afford to put a just a few of these on the forum to illustrate any alterations and edits, or there being none at all, but it has not been done yet.

I have only a few pages of scanned original Murlis, which I will try to upload. Meanwhile if any other PBK has scanned copies of some of the complete (i.e.3-4 pages long) original Murlis, they can post a sample here. But I suppose scanned copies will occupy more space of the forum/website. So, Admin may kindly advise whether it is OK to upload scanned copies of original Hindi Sakar Murlis available with the PBKs.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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john

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Post07 Dec 2007

arjun wrote:I have only a few pages of scanned original Murlis, which I will try to upload. Meanwhile if any other PBK has scanned copies of some of the complete (i.e.3-4 pages long) original Murlis, they can post a sample here. But I suppose scanned copies will occupy more space of the forum/website. So, Admin. may kindly advise whether it is OK to upload scanned copies of original Hindi Sakar Murlis available with the PBKs.

It would be fantastic to have at least one original Murli and it's later version on this website/forum for comparison. Highlighting all the missing, altered or added pieces would be very useful.
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arjun

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Post08 Dec 2007

Omshanti.

While speaking to the Religious wing, Social Service wing, and transport wing in the latest Avyakt Vani dated 30.11.07 Avyakt BapDada has asked BKs to remain in touch with the souls whom they serve through various programmes. He lauded the Call of Time programme where whoever comes to attend the programme likes it and their interest is awakened. They are kept in connection and an email is sent to them every week to keep them in relationship. He asked the BKs to send something or the other (referring to Godly knowledge/message) to their address every week to keep them sustained. He said that even a tree cannot grow without sustenance.

When BapDada is speaking about sustaining the new souls (who are not even BKs) by sending them Godly knowledge every week, will he object to sustaining His own thirsty children (the BKs) living in remote corners of the world by uploading Murlis (and not something or the other like 'classes') to them everyday or at least all the Avyakat Vanis????

Regards,
On Godly Service,
Arjun
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bansy

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Post08 Dec 2007

When BapDada is speaking about sustaining the new souls (who are not even BKs) by sending them Godly knowledge every week, will he object to sustaining His own thirsty children (the BKs) living in remote corners of the world by uploading Murlis (and not something or the other like 'classes') to them everyday or at least all the Avyakat Vanis???

BKs and folks are asking about this in the BK Oz forum too.

BK Oz Forum, Avyakt BapDada meeting of November 30 2007
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sparkal

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human being

Post08 Dec 2007

bansy wrote:There aren't any dieties yet, so I guess we are all still humans.

My understanding is that the "HUMAN" is the body and the "BEING" is the soul.
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arjun

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Post21 Dec 2007

John wrote:It would be fantastic to have at least one original Murli and it's later version on this website/forum for comparison. Highlighting all the missing, altered or added pieces would be very useful.

Omshanti. Here is an original Sakar Murli dated 24.02.68 consisting of four long pages, published by BKs in that year:
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The above scanned copy has been provided to me by ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) on request through email for being uploaded on this site.

The present day revised Murlis published by BKs are not even half of the above Murli in terms of the number of words.

Regards,
On Godly Service,
Arjun
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john

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Post21 Dec 2007

Thank you ArjunBhai
The present day revised Murlis published by BKs are not even half of the above Murli in terms of the number of words.

That is quite incredible. Is it possible to upload the modern day version of this particular Murli?
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arjun

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Post22 Dec 2007

John wrote:Is it possible to upload the modern day version of this particular Murli?

I think it will be very difficult to upload the revised version of this particular Murli, but even then I will try to keep track of the Murlis. If anyone wants I can upload a scanned copy of the modern day revised Murli published by BKs to show the changes that the structure of the Murli has undergone over the years.

I would also like to state that the Murli uploaded above is not clear because in those days the quality of the paper did not used to be so good and the Murli used to be cyclostyled on both sides of the paper and hence the impressions of the words printed on the backside can be seen on the front side also.

The initial lines of the Murli uploaded above talks about the 32nd Shivjayanti being celebrated. Since the Murli was narrated/printed in 1968, i.e. when Brahma Baba was alive, it should mean that the Yagya began in 1936.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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sparkal

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open source?

Post05 Jan 2008

Not sure where to put this or if it merely repeats what has been said, otherwise ... Within BKWSU there is a format. Indeed, within any educational system, there is usually a format. Because there is a format for doing things does not mean that the format should never be changed.

On the other hand, it may well be that, even in the coming age of enlightenment, education will remain an evolutionary process throughout our life. It is said that we are at our most enlightened in this "Confluence Age" period of time. We can see the beginning, the middle and the end in other words perhaps.

With regards to giving the Murli out as an open source teaching to anyone, BKWSU may therefore see this as being like giving the end of a story first, which does not work generally speaking, though some film makers use of it.

It could be argued that it is OK for those who have taken the primary teachings, then Murli, to ask for the Murli to be made accessible to all when in reality, such a thing may have to be a login type thing for various reasons.
    1) To preserve the teaching format which is largely to protect the student from knowledge/understanding overdose. Walk before learning to run.
    2) This holding back of the Murli may be used to bring people back to the centre. It may be said that, when Brahmins come together and meditate, something special happens and it may be difficult to debate with that one. It may be one of the few methods BKWSU hold to bring us all back together, other than the crumbling of society structures or self/within structures.
    3) There is the question of finance. The Murli is sold in book form. One book for each season. While this aspect may have become stronger over the years, I personally don't think it is the reason that the Murli is not open source. They definitely want people to go to the centres for the vibrational aspect, though people also put money into the box at the centre.
These are two different things, the money thing, or those with their eye on money, may use the more honest reasons, though I can here accusations of "love bombing". Love bombing is OK, in my opinion, if there are no ties. It is the hidden agenda's that need to be dealt with. An honest heart will have none. Love bombing and making money, owning souls, taking credit for etc.

It could be said that a new student would not understand the Murli without the primary course. It is thought that as time goes on, students will experience in a second etc. Perhaps (?), but it won't be from the Murli, it will be from vibrations and the time. So it is important that we don't put to much emphasis on knowledge, which only exists to bring about the experience and realisation remember.

So rather than take new students straight to The Knowledge, it could be said that the aim is/will be to take them straight to the experience. The question of what took souls away in the first place is an on going discussion. If one or two souls can bring us all together, then it may only take one or two souls to pull us apart.

peace
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arjun

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Post05 Jan 2008

sparkal wrote:1) To preserve the teaching format which is largely to protect the student from knowledge/ understanding overdose. Walk before learning to run.
2) This holding back of the Murli may be used to bring people back to the centre. It may be said that, when Brahmins come together and meditate, something special happens and it may be difficult to debate with that one. It may be one of the few methods BKWSU hold to bring us all back together, other than the crumbling of society structures or self/ within structures.
3) There is the question of finance. The Murli is sold in book form. One book for each season. While this aspect may have become stronger over the years, I personally don't think it is the reason that the Murli is not open source. They definitely want people to go to the centres for the vibrational aspect, though, people also put money into the box at the centre.

Whatever the reason, in today's fast moving and fast changing world, one cannot hide anything.

So, the Murlis are also bound to be liberated for the benefit of thirsty souls one day or the other. Who knows, some Murlis may be walking free from their jails straight to this site!!!!! :D
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bkti-pit

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Re: open source?

Post07 Jan 2008

sparkal wrote:They definitely want people to go to the centres for the vibrational aspect

If vibrations were pure, benevolent and elevated as they are meant to be, if there was an atmosphere of true spirituality, humility and open heartedness, everyone would come running to the center every morning.

But if they are not, depriving souls from the right to access the Murli will not fill up the morning class.
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