The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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john

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Post15 Aug 2006

amaranthine wrote:I am not sure the Murli would have been written down back then, maybe she read her notes.

Very good point I was thinking that as I posted, yet I am sure I've read or heard it from way back when. Maybe in the Jagdish book of Brahma's life, I'll check.
Personally its not something that particularly apeals to me!

Living in a centre or reading Murli so many times?
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amaranthine

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Post15 Aug 2006

Both :!: :!:. I also remember this quote

I put most of that early Yagya stuff down to rose tinted spectacles mind, but then knowing Dadi that particular Yagya story is probably true.
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bansy

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Post15 Aug 2006

:D I like the honesty. I wonder how many BKs actually like reading the Murlis, even though it is food and nourishment for the soul, so surely the more you do it the better your soul? And surely the purest Murli is the best. Not one that gets things mixed or taken out (=edited) because it suits the taste of the day.

And for BKs it's better to read both Sakar and Ayavkt Murlis. If they are God's property to be given to you, why take only a slice when you can have the whole cake ? I remember being said that greed for Gyan is the only form of greed.
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john

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Post15 Aug 2006

And for BKs it's better to read both Sakar and Ayavkt Murlis, if they are God's property to be given to you, why take only a slice when you can have the whole cake ? I remember being said that greed for Gyan is the only form of greed.

Bansy is right. BKs should demand access to their scriptures!

Also if there was 18 years of Murli proper through Brahma, where is the rest? Have the 18 years Murli been condensed to 5? Actually, I am thinking I may take the BK course again! That way I can see how the course is now given and possibly get access to Murlis.

I cannot see the story in the Brahma book about D Janki, but I did find an interesting little thing at the back;
Very often, Father Shiva spoke about his special son, Christ.

I really cannot remember many references to Christ? Have these been ommited or have I missed them?
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admin

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Campaign : Free Access to Murlis

Post15 Aug 2006

The following Poll has been started to access this important issue.
    As a Brahmin Soul, do you think you should have free access to Murlis via the internet?
    Why is access to Murlis being limited and by who?
Today we start our campaign to free public access to the Murlis.
    Why are the Murlis considered to be worthy of password protection and PGP security encryption?
    Who has decided this?
    Has Baba given His Shrimat to justify this?
We ask for free and easy access to the original and re-edited Murlis.

Please see Poll at :

http://brahmakumaris.info/bb/viewtopic.php?t=800
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amaranthine

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Post15 Aug 2006

John wrote:Actually, I am thinking I may take the BK course again! That way I can see how the course is now given and possibly get access to Murlis.

Honestly! if you do be gentle with the teacher!
John wrote:Also if there was 18 years of Murli proper through Brahma, where is the rest? Have the 18 years Murli been condensed to 5?

The 5 are the last 5 years of Sakar Baba. This directive was from the first avaykt Murli if I recall. good question about the previous 18 years. I reckon most BKs would love to see these. Not so much from a deepening of knowledge frame of reference but to create an increase their fondness for the organisation, just in the same way that the old photos do. I reckon though if they were freely available they would probably confuse a lot of people.
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howiemac

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Post15 Aug 2006

amaranthine wrote:The 5 are the last 5 years of Sakar Baba. This directive was from the first avaykt Murli if I recall.

BapDada said " you will have to revise all the Murlis that have already been spoken", by "revise" meaning repeat i believe, rather than edit.... I note he said all, and not just the last five years! (see my post on http://www.brahmakumaris.info/bb/viewtopic.php?t=144&start=0 summarising that first Avyakt Murli.)
good question about the previous 18 years. I reckon most BKs would love to see these.
I was told that the older Sakar Murlis were considered too innaccurate to repeat - The Knowledge evolved through Brahma Baba's churnings, and only the last five years were considered (by who?) to be accurate enough to use.... I challenge anyone to provide any sensible support for the idea that these Murlis are "the words of God" rather than the words of Brahma Baba...as I see it they are all the fallible, and often inconsistent, ideas of Brahma Baba - they do contain, indeed, much elevated spiritual knowledge, but also misleading statements, some of which are downright dangerous when regarded as the "infallible words of God".

God doesn't speak. God is above and beyond language. The BK knowledge should still be evolving, and not frozen in time as of 1969. I believe that the BKs are so secretive about these Sakar Murlis because they fear ridicule and even retribution from the outside world were their contents more widely known. They are more open with the Avyakts - publishing them in book form, albeit for sale to BKs only. The Avyakt Murlis are not nearly so controversial - Avyakt Brahma is much more elevated and subtle than Sakar Brahma - the difference between a completely realised soul, free from corporeal ego and body, and an unrealised soul still bound to a corporeal body and still working on perfecting himself.

When the Murlis are made public, the BKWSU will have to abandon its outrageous lie that it is not a religion.

• [ Admin edit : for an archive of Murlis started after this post, see; http://www.brahmakumaris.info/w/index.php?title=Category:Sakar_Murli ]
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howiemac

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Post15 Aug 2006

I remember being told several times by BKs that the purpose of the internet in terms of drama was in order to help the BKs reveal God. So why are the Murlis not published on it? And why are the live Avyakt Murli broadcasts not available to the outside world? The BKs task is defined in the Murlis as revealing God to all souls of the world, not just to BKs!

I feel very strongly that all the BK Murlis should be available on the internet, for all souls of the world, so that they can make up their own minds whether or not these are the "words of God". The secrecy of the BKs indicates that they have things to hide. Their own teachings say they become Angels from being Brahmins. Angels would not have anything to hide.

The time for secret societies is long past. And it is long past time the BKs stopped living a lie about their true nature and role (as they see it). The Murlis have for decades been urging them to "pull back the curtain" and "reveal Baba", meaning "reveal God". Instead they give the impression that they have found God and would much rather keep him/her to themselves....
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john

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Post15 Aug 2006

Banners, placards! A demonstration! Someone chain themselves to a Dadi!

"Free the Murlis" :lol:
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ex-l

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Post16 Aug 2006

howiemac wrote:I challenge anyone to provide any sensible support for the idea that these Murlis are "the words of God" rather than the words of Brahma Baba...as I see it they are all the fallible, and often inconsistent, ideas of Brahma Baba - they do contain, indeed, much elevated spiritual knowledge, but also misleading statements, some of which are downright dangerous when regarded as the "infallible words of God".

I remember when I first started to hear the Sakar Murlis. Immediately it was clear to me that that Lekhraj was speaking at some point but when I pointed this out it was jumped upon by the Sister in Charge of the center. It was obvious but institutionally denied.

" No, no, no ... ", was the answer. I was corrected immediately, "These were Baba's words, God's words ... ". There was no second thought. Baba-Baba-Baba-Baba-Baba-Baba-Baba ...

I went along with it because I wanted to express my love and prove my faith in God. It never crosed my mind it might all be Lekhraj / Brahma's words, I always thouight that it was just Lekhraj interjecting from time to time, but looking back I think it is a crime, and it makes me angry, that such stupid people were such allowed influence over impressionable individual's minds. I am absolutely sure that if you did a poll of current BKs 99.9% would say it was "Baba's words", i.e. God's words. And, of course, it begs the question, if they are some or all of Lekhraj Kirpalani's words, why do the PBKs refer to them so religiously?

My strongest point on this thread is ;

if these are God's or Adam's [ to use the BK belief ] words ... is the BKWSU not interested and proud in them? Why is there not a intelligent study or review of the developments of Lekhraj Kirpalani's thoughts? Brahma is meant to be Number One, twice as pure and powerful as Jesus Christ or Buddha. If these were Jesus Christ's or Buddha's original thoughts and words the World would be pouring over them. I want to see the original Murlis and the notebooks; Brahma, Mama's etc ... what has happened to them? Burnt or just hidden? Who has ever asked to see them when they were in Madhuban?
    What right do the Seniors have to hold them back and edit them up?
It is time to stand up against those gentle, patronizing, rebuffs and say -
    "No, it is my birthright as much as yours ... give us The Knowledge, give us the Gyan, so that we may learn from the source too at our own speed and to our own depth ".
Why should we accept to be treated like children by these people? Little peasants kept busy on the service field. I cannot believe it when I read that they are being locked away behind Passwords and PGP security ... and even worse ...

I am sorry, but what does that say about the BKWSU? Who is doing these things!?!
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bansy

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Post16 Aug 2006

Howiemac and ex-l,

I kind of gave my view on this in the thread BK concept of Destruction.
Bansy wrote:The yayga were doing service well before the soul of Dada Lekhraj left, does that mean that the Sisters and Dadis were wrong in what they did because of what Brahma Baba was telling them was incomplete at the time ? Is the entire BKWSU founded on the sanskars of Brahma or on the 100% accurate words of God ? My churning is that the Gita is the main scripture, we don't just skip to chapter 18 when Arjun (=Brahma) gets his realisation, we start from chapter 1. The Sakar Murlis (SM) are akin to chapters1-17 and chapter18 the Avaykt Murlis (AM). Similarly, there is the Old Testament and the New Testament of the Bible, why need the know the life of Christ if everything after Easter suffices.

Many a times students would ask in class which "Baba" who said so and so.... Brahma Baba or Shiv Baba. Well, if Shiva was in Brahma Baba's (Lekhraj Kirpalani) body, then whatever He said was as pure as it can get, though it is constantly reminded that no-one was yet pure and also never to remember this (Lekhraj Kirpalani) body.

Even so, if what Brahma Baba said was incorrect at the time due to sanskar impurities, there is no need to edit them out, because you're simply editing out the TRUTH of what happened in the yayga, even if the truth hurts.

My view is only way the editing can be allowed post-1969 is for Avyakt BapDada, 100% perfect, to be instructing directly a soul to do it. Or He can do it via the live AMs.
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arjun

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Post16 Aug 2006

Omshanti.

I fully agree that Murlis should be freely available to everyone. In fact Baba has himself said in the Murlis published by BKs that in future the Murlis would be published in lakhs. When that does take place, then it would surely be available freely?

It is a paradox that while BKs are demanding access to Murlis and their administrators are not providing it and on the other side the PBKs are ready to put the videos of Murli clarifications on TV channels but because they demand money, which is against Shrimat, they are not able to do so. Actually, Baba does not want us to spend any amount to get the Murli videos to be aired on TV channels. He wants us to convince them about the Godly knowledge so that they air it free of cost. Baba has mentioned in the Murlis published by BKs that the media people would come on their own to write or show about the Godly knowledge.

While the BKs have all the resources to reveal God and the Godly knowledge to the world they are not doing so. Instead they just keep airing the classes by senior BKs on many TV channels. I don't know if they are paying any amount for this or not.

I remember an incident. The PBKs had convinced a famous Hindi newspaper of India to publish the Advanced Knowledge as a series of articles. They published a few articles, but when the BKs started pressurising them, they stopped publishing the articles without assigning any reasons. Some PBKs who had gone to the newspaper office to persuade them to start publishing the articles saw the BK Sisters in that office meeting the editor. Most of the newspapers/magazines refuse to publish any articles provided by the PBKs for the fear of upsetting the BKs who serve them lavishly, while the PBKs are not ready to spend any amount to make the media people happy.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Free the Murlis

Post16 Aug 2006

amaranthine wrote:Emailing Murlis is considered very naughty.

Can I ask the obvious, why is that and who is saying it?

It is interesting, BK life is full of these "subtle Shrimats" that are not recorded or re-written down but seem to circulate unquestioned until they build up a critical mass of their own and become unchallengeable beliefs. It may just have one one sister-in-charge having a bad stage one morning. [not that that ever happens ... oh no ... never ... could not be :shock:]
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amaranthine

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Re: Free the Murlis

Post16 Aug 2006

ex-l wrote:Can I ask the obvious, why is that and who is saying it?

It would be considered naughty (my words) as this is not the accurate 'system' for Murli distribution. This directive would have come from the 'top'

As for why that is, what do you think? (text only communication can be difficult at times - this is not an aggresive statement but one intended to develop an open discourse) Why do you think the Seniors would think this to be so necessary, to answer this I think you need to try and see things from their perspective, which would mean trying to remove yourself from any feelings of injustice, cynism or anger you may feel for how things are at present.

Again i will just add that I am not trying to change how you feel about the current situation but to see things from another perspective. Nor am I saying that I know why it is so, but I do have my opinions as to why they think it is necessary.
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howiemac

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Re: Free the Murlis

Post16 Aug 2006

amaranthine wrote: Why do you think the Seniors would think this to be so necessary, to answer this I think you need to try and see things from their perspective

I suspect it is not easy for many of us to see things from their perspective - their behaviour does not make sense to me. They appear to show fear and lack of trust, even a wish to use the distribution of Murlis to control BKs, by which i mean to "encourage" them to go to the centres to morning class, in order to hear them. Personally I cannot reconcile their behaviour, or their system, with spiritual objectives, i.e. with the revelation of God and of the divine virtues inherent in every one of us. I look for love, enlightenment, wisdom, trust, positivity, honesty, goodness, and all forms of virtue, especially in those that set themselves up as spiritual leaders or teachers. The restrictive practices of the BKWSU do not fit the picture - they seem to me to belong to the dark old copper and iron age energies of hierarchy and control, and not to the New Age of spiritual enlightenment, understanding, openness and co-operation which we are (or surely should be) preparing ourselves for.

I look at the world around us, and see it moving on, ever changing, towards increased co-operation and spirituality, while the old school power mongers - I am talking Bush and Blair and their ilk - connive in ever more ridiculous plots to bring about doom and gloom. It seems like the BKWSU have more in common with the "old school" than with the New Age. It looks to me that the BKWSU have set themselves in stone and are refusing to bend in any way, let alone change. And this from an organisation that preaches transformation! Change is the only constant - in a changing world, what doesn't bend will break.
I do have my opinions as to why they think it is necessary.

amaranthine - please tell us what your opinions are - this forum is intended for open discourse :) Why do they think it is necessary, and do you agree with them?
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