The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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bansy

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Post30 Aug 2006

John wrote:I have found some hard copy Murlis dated 1978, if I see a revised later copy of the same Murli I will be able to check, to see if anything has changed.

John, what are the first few lines like ? Is there the "Essence", " Question" ,"Answer", "Song" section before the main body ? If not, anyone know when these sections were added (including an "Essence for dharna" , "Blessing" and "Slogan" sections) ?
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john

reforming BK

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Post31 Aug 2006

Bansy,

It varies from all four to just song. I would say most of them are just the song that is being played before Shiva(or Brahma starts) arrives for the Murli. I have some from 1985 and they all have Essence, Question, Answer, Song at the start. There are no blessings slogans on the end of any of them.

I will be making endeavours to get them into electronic form, .pdf, or .doc.
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howiemac

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Post31 Aug 2006

John wrote:I will be making endeavours to get them into electronic form, .pdf, or .doc.

John - please don't use pdf - it is a format designed for printing and viewing only and doesn't store the characters in a way that is useful for other digital uses (eg publishing on a website). To convert pdf files into normal text requires a character recognition process that will generally produce inaccuracies in the resulting text, which then requires careful manual checking and fixing.

.doc or (preferably) .rtf or .txt is fine. :)
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john

reforming BK

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Post01 Sep 2006

.doc or (preferably) .rtf or .txt is fine.

Okey dokey :)
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admin

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Published Murlis etc

Post03 Sep 2006

Sakar Murlis are now being published, here ;

http://www.brahmakumaris.info/w/index.p ... akar#Links
http://www.brahmakumaris.info/w/index.p ... akar_Murli

Avyakt Murlis are now being published, here ;

http://www.brahmakumaris.info/w/index.p ... yakt_Murli
http://www.brahmakumaris.info/w/index.p ... yakt_Murli

New items are going up in the Encyclopedia and have a look at it, e.g. BK teachers training manual ;

http://www.brahmakumaris.info/w/index.p ... ing_Manual

* And images, here ;

http://www.brahmakumaris.info/w/index.p ... :Newimages

With your cooperation, this resource will grow faster, any individuals can contribute directly to the Encyclopedia, although PBKs, please make note that your contribution is from the PBK point of view.

Documents and images can also be uploaded, here ;

http://www.brahmakumaris.info/indexw.html - using the "Anonymous login" option.

bansy

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Murlis : In the Present tense or in the Past tense format

Post13 Sep 2006

As a student of English language has prompted this topic:

Do Sakar Murlis (revised ones of pre-69) that are read each morning Monday to Saturdays at BK centres, are they to be listened and read in the past tense, or in the present tense ?

If the Murlis are set in the past tense scenario, then what the BKs say seem correct. If in the present tense, then the PBKs seem correct. E.g. there are statements such as "Prajapita Brahma exists in this world", but it does not have the given time. And there are also many statements of "This Baba" and "That one", etc which depending on the time setting of the Murli can be either more aligned to BK or to PBK.

Another BK in another thread mentioned that since Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) is now in avaykt form, there is "little need" of the daily Murlis, only the Avyakt Murlis are important, as they are post-69. But this raises another question, if only Avyakt Murlis are needed, does that imply all The Knowledge is complete in the Sakar Murlis ?

Your views please.
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howiemac

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Re: Murlis : In the Present tense or in the Past tense forma

Post14 Sep 2006

if only Avyakt Murlis are needed, does that imply all The Knowledge is complete in the Sakar Murlis ?

That is BapDada's line - in the early Avyakt Murlis he says that the Sakar Murlis contain the full course, and the avyakts are only for conversation (or some such thing)... but personally i have found the avyakts more elevated, more helpful, and more reliable than the sakars, albeit both have copious quantities of nonsense, and many contradictions, much of which may well be due to difficulties or deficiencies in translation.. :?
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arjun

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Post19 Sep 2006

Sister Bansy,
Omshanti. You have raised an important issue and this is the issue which leads many a BKs to become PBKs because although the reading of Sakar Murlis in the BK center would make sense only if it is read in the past sense, but all the BK teachers read the Sakar Murlis in the present tense and whenever there is any reference to God Shiv or Prajapita Brahma being present in this world, they point out either to the picture of the incorporeal Shiv or the picture of Brahma Baba. And I had written with proofs in the xbkchat that how the BKs spend lakhs of rupees in publishing advertisements of various sizes on the occassion of Shivjayanti prominently mentioning that God Shiv has come on this Earth in the body of Prajapita Brahma when they and the entire world is aware that the person whom they consider to be Prajapita Brahma is no more in this world.

As regards the importance of Avyakt Vanis vis-a-vis Sakar Murlis are concerned, I feel the Sakar Murlis to be more important as they contain knowledge on more diverse topics (like Trimurti, World Cycle, the World Tree, etc.) than the Avyakt Vanis which concentrate almost entirely on dharna (inculcation of virtues). The Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Vanis are like the poetry and prose of the Brahmin family. Some like prose and some like poetry. But poetry is more likely to be popular as it is in a simple language. The Avyakt Vanis are more interesting for the intellectuals.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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john

reforming BK

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Post19 Sep 2006

Another point to bear in mind is the Sakar Murlis are only from 1951 that are in the five year cycle. If I am correct in this assumption, then it would have been after the 14 year secluded period and the start of service. Before Madhuban/Mount Abu, the Sisters were not sent out to do service. Therefore all these Sakar Murlis would have a strong 'do service' theme, which I believe would be absent from previous Murlis.

It would be very interesting to see the pre-1951 Murlis and see how The Knowledge progressed. Maybe they weren't Murlis transcribed as we know them, but I do remember reading that Brahma Baba used to write the Murlis initially as opposed to them being spoken out loud.

bansy

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Post02 Oct 2006

Letter to God :

Dad,
The problems seems to be that we are on a moving target with the Murlis, the editing and narration of them are done over time, each of us students is given a piece of a jigsaw each day but the jigsaw pieces do not fit together to the previous piece, since they are being changed.

If the complete map of Gyan is done in 1969, then why cannot the student each have their own complete set of this puzzle, an original set, of course. In a real and proper family, I am sure Brothers and Sisters play the same game together, and when they have finished with it, they'll pass it to those who haven't played the game without taking any peices away, wouldn't that be naughty ?

So God, can we have a complete set of the jigsaw (Murlis) again ? Otherwise no-one is going to play the game when they realise the missing peices. The way things are going, we keep passing "Go and collecting $200" and the number of times I've "Gone to Jail". So my treasures are accumulating, and sometimes Ravan plays to, but we just seems to be going round and round the bend, I mean, board.

Hold on, was a complete set done by 1969 ?

Anyway, waiting for you reply. You know where I am.

Om Shanti.
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john

reforming BK

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Post09 Oct 2006

Mitra wrote:I personnaly feel that everyone should learn from their mistakes!

Do you consider deliberate altering of ShivaBaba's Murli as a mistake?
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ex-l

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Post09 Oct 2006

John wrote:Do you consider deliberate altering of ShivaBaba's Murli as a mistake?

In the early days in the West, all the Murlis came in Hindi and the sisters-in-charge would have to edit them on the hoof.

This, of course, caused problems because some Sisters were better at translating than other Sisters and some Sisters used to get anything from embarrassed to upset if they felt challenged about the quality of their translation. It became an issue of "respect" if they were doubted. They would sit on the throne in silence reading and then start to paraphrase "what Baba was saying", instead of "what Baba had said". I suppose this would good enough for India where the ShivShakti is 'unchallengeable mighthouse'. But it used to upset the more intellectual white students.

One has to wonder what was written out of Gyan at that period including, of course, all the stuff about 1976 and Destruction.

So editing and re-writing are nothing new. The BKWSU might have had its peak of intellectual honesty in the early 1980s - minus 1976 which was still too fresh - but the milk has all been homogenized, pasteurized and sanitized since then.

The Senior Sisters know all this. It is written in their eyes. I suppose they just all thought the world would end and they would not get caught out ...
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john

reforming BK

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Post15 Oct 2006

ex-l wrote:In the early days in the West, all the Murlis came in Hindi and the Sisters-in-charge would have to edit them on the hoof.

Then it is possible that the whole set of original Murlis are in London?

Or were the ones sent in Hindi revised before they were sent....
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ex-l

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More BKWSU Murli re-writes?

Post17 Oct 2006

OK.

Every one knows I am not a PBK and I found these of my own accord. But there are dates and so they are checkable. If you can find an original un-edited version. Why has this all been written out of BK history?

"At the beginning of the yagna there were two female children who used to even direct Mama and Baba (Om Radhe & Dada Lekhraj), used to be teacher and used to play superb part. They left their mortal coils." (Murlis dated: 15 June 1969 & 28 May 1969, 2 June 1975 & 28 May 1974).

"The (male) person who was with him for 10 years, she (the female) used to go in trance, used to drill Baba (Dada Lekhraj) also. Entering into them Father (ShivBaba) used to give direction. How much status did they have! Today they were no more. (Because) at that time there was not so much of knowledge." (Murli: 23 July 1969)

"If you want to take number then do make up. Any one can do now. No seat has been fixed. Except Brahma, Baap and Jagadamba the rest seats are vacant. Any one can take. Even a one year child can take". (Avyakt Murli: 25 November 1995).

Does anyone have the original Hindi of the last one? Was Brahma and Baap definitely two separate individuals and not referring to Shiva's role? Just asking from the linguistic point of view.

Funny thing is, I don't think all the new BKs care about this stuff. It seems that they are happy with the myths and busy looking after business. I was speaking to someone the other day who thought the new BKs were all Copper Age souls, bhagats of Brahma or the Dadis ... I had never thought of that before.
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Mr Green

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Post27 Nov 2006

How do you know the Sakars are from 1951? That is different to what I was told. I was told that the last 5 years were recorded!
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