Cold detachment

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
  • Message
  • Author

clearernow

Re: Cold detachment

Post11 Jan 2013

Patzcuaro

Agreed with your observation - Essence is what matters whether it comes from BKism or something else doesn't matter

Clearernow
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Cold detachment

Post12 Jan 2013

Therefore, you are basically saying it's OK to fool people into believing something even if it is not true, or misrepresenting yourself, as long as it has a good effect at the end?

Do you agree that Patzcuaro is representing the teachings of the BKWSU accurately, e.g. the "gradual" transformation?
User avatar

howiemac

ex-BK

  • Posts: 215
  • Joined: 08 Apr 2006
  • Location: Scotland

Re: Cold detachment

Post12 Jan 2013

This is partly why it instruct its adherents to develop "cold detachment" from all human beings, not just family and friends.

Do they instruct this? Certainly they practice cold detachment (many of them, not all), and accordingly it will no doubt be part of the nonsensical dogma that they preach to each other these days. However, BapDada does not preach cold detachment. "Be detached and loving" is the teaching. The love has been lost along the way.

I know that this is nitpicking, but I just like to keep highlighting how they do not even understand nor follow their own teachings (ie those of BapDada). The teachings of BapDada are themselves flawed, but they are very elevated compared to the dogma that is now prevalent amongst the BKs, and which causes great oppression and suffering within their ranks.

clearernow

Re: Cold detachment

Post12 Jan 2013

Regarding the above two posts

1. I did agree that there is a lot to BKWSU teachings that works well when the focus is on essence- like soul consciousness, meditation, living in the present, power of silence and the need for self development. For me like Patzcuaro, essence matters more than detail. In the end, its part of transformation of consciousness and at a collective consciousness level it will have a lot of power but its happening gradually. Personally I do not think its limited to BKs- as sufferings in the world increase, it will force people to transform at a collective level but the paths they adopt may be different.

2. Regarding cold detachment, like many of other BapDada teachings- its upto how we implement in daily life- Some BKs get it wrong and forget the loving part of the detachment but rather than looking at the flaws of their implementation again my focus is on the essence "detached and loving" -for me it has always worked beautifully in life and never hurt my relationships and so is true for many others- BKs and non BKs. Are BKs imperfect? Yes ofcourse but they are on the journey of gradual transformation and alteast trying! What is the end result of attachment in the end ? Sorrow and grief which can become traumatic in instances where relations break, someone or something close to us leaves us or even death of someone close. Therefore practice of detachment to me is core to many of spiritual practices (Entire theme of the main scripture of India- Gita is on detachment) and its again not a properitary of BKs.

I think there is a natural tendency for human ego to project our beliefs onto others and prove others wrong- Some BKs may have got it wrong but Many BKs do it because they firmly believe on their teachings and BapDada not because they want to mislead others and destroy families- members of this forum believe BKWSU is destructive for families /only believe in destruction and trying to only pose those aspects to others. For example some people believe they have been benefitted immensely by BKs and will continue to believe so despite so much coercion on this forum to make them believe they have actually been brainwashed. To me both sides are trying to project their beliefs onto others which is natural in the current world.

-Clearernow
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Cold detachment

Post12 Jan 2013

I don't know how much contact you have with the friends and family of BKs but I get to see a constant stream of hurt, damaged and time wasted individuals/families from all over the world. However, I am sure it is only a tiny fraction of all cases and the tip of the iceberg that the BK Seniors deal with.

The questions to ask are,
    a) Are the alleged benefits worth the very real costs?

    b) Could the alleged benefits be possible to achieve without the very real costs?

    For example, a bit of light exercise, some breathing, and a meditation which did not involve extraordinary beliefs, adherence to an End of World cult, and separating from one's family and community. My guess is, "yes".
Personally, I knew two of the suicide cases and if asked, "was the entire of the BKWSU's history worth more than their lives?", I would have to say, "no". Nothing the Brahma Kumaris have done is worth more than just those two lives alone.

Any ethical person, in charge of an organization which starts to cause individuals to commit suicide, would shut the organization down and re-think what they were doing.

Unfortunately, the Brahma Kumaris have not evolve sufficient to start consider what "ethics" are. They are too bothered by achieve financial wealth and the political power it can buy.

I don't see that the BKs have produced anything extraordinary good. They are just middle ranking Indian politicians playing the religion business.
howiemac wrote:Do they instruct this? Certainly they practice cold detachment ... The love has been lost along the way.

I think that is a fair comment but I think that the original teachings are a little bit schizophrenic in this department.

If we think about the BKWSU in the West, political ambition has certain overtaken any idea of "love" and the chosen leaders can be *exceptionally* cold hearted and cut off.

Would that also be fair to say?
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Cold detachment

Post12 Jan 2013

The only thing the BKs have refined to the level of a fine art is keeping up a facade or lying.

bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

  • Posts: 509
  • Joined: 14 Jun 2007

Re: Cold detachment

Post12 Jan 2013

Hi Wonieka!

Thanks for your contribution to the forum. I read all your posts and can relate to most of what you say.

Howiemac rightly pointed out that BapDada has been teaching about being "detached and loving". BapDada however also underlines that one should have love "for the Father and none other", which I think is enough to confuse many.

I chose to be loving first and never allow myself to suppress my feelings of love out of fear of attachment. I'd rather be loving and attached than detached and cold. It has been my experience however, like others here, that the overall atmosphere within BK ranks often was one of fear, suppression and control.

I have been involved with the BKs for almost 30 years and I remained a faithful adherent for 22 years. It is the experience of what I then believed to be God's limitless love, during my early experiments with BK meditation, that aroused my interest for the BK teachings and eventually pulled me to join the organization, despite the noticeable flaws.

I did have many positive experiences during my BK years and have gained a lot from it. With time however it became increasingly difficult for me to deal with the discrepancy between my inner experiences and ideals of unlimited love and the environment of lies, duplicity, secrecy, control, exclusion and power struggles within the institution.

When I encountered this forum I was already seriously questioning my deep involvement with the BK movement. What I found here helped me to steer free from the BK restrictive environment and its dampening effect on me. It enriched my life in numerous ways and I am forever grateful to the creators, the maintainers and the supporters of this site.

Patzcuaro

BK supporter

  • Posts: 34
  • Joined: 03 Jan 2013

Re: Cold detachment

Post13 Jan 2013

Dear Ex-I.

I do not know to whom in BK you have talked about definitions of Destruction or Transformation, but I did talk about it with many of the most experienced members of the Indian, British, NY , Canadian, Mexican or Latin-American members, and they always used these concepts only to refer to other concepts as inner change or the need to consider this as unique historical moment to bring together everyone's energy to visualize a different world.

Well, as I respect your vison, I also respect theirs.

Love
Patzcuaro
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Cold detachment

Post13 Jan 2013

When did you enter Gyan, after the year 2000? Did you give the BKs any money or work for them for free?

Are you denying that the Brahma Kumaris use the word "Destruction" to refer to the death of 7 billion human beings except BKs, the sinking of all continents except India, and the final Nuclear war ... and that it is only Brahma Kumari adherents will inherit the heaven on earth *after* Destruction?

Your honest answer, please.

This website reflect direct experiences of the Brahma Kumari cult from all over the world and over a period of 35 years.
User avatar

howiemac

ex-BK

  • Posts: 215
  • Joined: 08 Apr 2006
  • Location: Scotland

Re: Cold detachment

Post14 Jan 2013

ex-l wrote:If we think about the BKWSU in the West, political ambition has certain overtaken any idea of "love" and the chosen leaders can be *exceptionally* cold hearted and cut off.

Would that also be fair to say?
I think so, yes.


I don't know what alternative BK planet Patzcuaro was on - certainly not the BKWSU I was part of! Destruction was very much central to the agenda - I preferred to think in terms of transformation, or destruction of vices, and that is their tack for outside consumption, but for BK "students" it was DESTRUCTION in a physical sense, and it was always to be happening very soon (usually "in the next few months"), a rolling forecast of doom that was never revised in the light of the experience of their forecasts being repeatedly wrong. They were obsessed with it, and most seemed to cling onto the idea of imminent destruction as a release from the burden of BK life. That was certainly my impression.

bkti-pit: I always had reservations about the "love for the Father and none other" instruction, even in the height of my indoctrination. I always felt - and still do, in fact I feel absolutely sure about this - that true love (spiritual love) is universal and unconditional, and is for all of life, all beings.

bktipit wrote:I did have many positive experiences during my BK years and have gained a lot from it. With time however it became increasingly difficult for me to deal with the discrepancy between my inner experiences and ideals of unlimited love and the environment of lies, duplicity, secrecy, control, exclusion and power struggles within the institution.

When I encountered this forum I was already seriously questioning my deep involvement with the BK movement. What I found here helped me to steer free from the BK restrictive environment and its dampening effect on me. It enriched my life in numerous ways and I am forever grateful to the creators, the maintainers and the supporters of this site.

Me too - all of the above.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Cold detachment

Post14 Jan 2013

Patzcuaro wrote:... as I respect your vison, I also respect theirs.

Please note and answer the questions I asked above, Patzcuaro. I hope you also answer the others too.

I'd be concerned that non-BKs were fooled by the idea there were was any 'subjectivism' within the Brahma Kumaris religion ... or even moral relativism. That is to say, that the BKs truly believe 'another opinion is equal to theirs' or all visions are equally respected.

Although the BKs have learnt many such mental devices (yuktis) to create and sustain their appearance to outsiders, and avoid direct conflicts of opinion, there is no equality of vision or opinion within the BKWSU. It is absolutely hierarchical; Baba's ... if in doubt the Seniors ... then everyone else's ... then untouchable outsiders. It's a conceptual caste system.

They've built up this facade primarily within multi-faith type environments and first and foremost in the West, as such environments were, for a long time and in many places, the only environments open to them. They sought to do so in order to establish their legitimacy as an equally acceptable religion. However, it does not reflect the truth of their teachings which is absolutely supremacism; they are the top knot and the only true messengers of god, all others are ignorance and deluded.

Although they talk of detachment, in fact they create many subtle threads and attachments binding people to them in a very feminine way. Real "yogi souls" might question these.

Patzcuaro

BK supporter

  • Posts: 34
  • Joined: 03 Jan 2013

Re: Cold detachment

Post14 Jan 2013

Dear Ex-I

I was in BK from 1992 to 1999

I do not deny I listened to the word "Destruction" many times during my BK time talking about a physical transformation of the earth that implied thousands of dead people.

All I am saying is that, for some reason, and because I was enjoying my silence experience so much, the message I kept when I heard that it was that we were in front of a unique historical moment to visualize, and here I mean "create" a different world.

And after more than 12 years after leaving BK I value this "non-literal idea of Destruction" more than ever, especially because it has allowed me to prove, in daily life, that I am perfectly capable of creating a new world every second, and it works. It is working.

I can see now, in meditation, how the powerful energy of thousands of souls (BK and non BK) is gradually making the world change it's trajectory, and nothing will stop this from happening, and you know why? Because this energy is our natural energy. You and every single human being will end up recognizing their selves in front of this energy.

Now you can call it Destruction or Construction, it does not really matter.

bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

  • Posts: 509
  • Joined: 14 Jun 2007

Re: Cold detachment

Post14 Jan 2013

howiemac wrote:bkti-pit: I always had reservations about the "love for the Father and none other" instruction, even in the height of my indoctrination. I always felt - and still do, in fact I feel absolutely sure about this - that true love (spiritual love) is universal and unconditional, and is for all of life, all beings.

I totally agree with you but I think that many understood it in a very narrow minded way and were adversely affected by it and it would often manifest as cold detachment.

My point is that the Murlis could be confusing, saying one thing and then something else that somehow contradicted it. How often did we hear "Be detached and loving" and how often did we hear "Break your attachment with everyone, have love for no one but the one Father"? Even the loving part was interpreted as "loving for the one Father and detached from everyone else". I chose to stick with the loving side but I cannot say that those who stuck to the other side were not following the instructions.

Similarly it would sometime say that BK Raja Yoga was not a question of blind faith but something that needed to be understood whilst on the other hand it would tell us that we shouldn't use our own mind and intellect but surrender them to Baba and that in doubt we should take advice from the Seniors and follow it blindly Don't worry if it does not feel right. It will not be your karma, Baba will take responsibility...

It was stated that as souls we are all Brothers and as human beings we area all Brothers and Sisters which for me was very inclusive. Yet, on the other hand we were constantly being taught that we were best and they were less, that we were pure, knowledgeful and elevated whilst everyone else was impure, devilish and ignorant, that God has special love for the special children, that he only has love for the obedient and serviceable ones... which is very divisive and generates exclusion.

Who is to blame for the institutionalized flaws within BKism, individual BKs' misinterpretation or the BK God's own words?

Yes, it is possible for a BK to pick only the pearls and have wonderful meditation experiences but one would have to remain on the fringe or be blind and deaf, or in denial, to not acknowledge that this site offers a fair presentation of the true nature of the BKWSU.

If any independent enquirer wish to have a look at the true teachings of the BKs, just click on "Encyclopedia" on the top of this page and select any Sakar Murlis or Avyakt Murlis. Those are what BKs believed to be the very own and only words of God. Have a look! If you have any question one of us here will be glad to help you.
Previous

Return to Commonroom

cron