Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK ones

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Patzcuaro

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post18 Jan 2013

ex.Brahma wrote:It is sad to notice the dishonesty of few BK "souls" writting in this forum , who claim in their profiles to be ex-BK, while in fact the cult teachings are deeply rooted in the marrow of their bones

Again you are disqualyfing and insulting. I am perfectly honest when I say I am an ex BK, because I left Gyan more than 15 years ago. That does not mean I do not keep those teachings as a truly important part of my path.

Or are you saying that just by been an ex BK means you have to be against it? Well, then this forum is absolutely partial and useless and it is only a wastebasket for you to throw all your anger.

Ex Brahma and Ex-I:

You should allow yourselves to heal before messing people with your clearly confused hearts
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ex-l

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post18 Jan 2013

... And you should develop a moral backbone and have some consideration for the victims of the BKWSU, and remove the condescension within your mind.
ex.Brahma wrote:It is sad to notice the dishonesty of few BK "souls" writting in this forum, who claim in their profiles to be ex-BK, while in fact the cult teachings are deeply rooted in the marrow of their bones.

From personal experience, I would confidently say that the Brahma Kumaris cult is extremely insensitive to human issues and even hypocritical, when it comes to dealing with life daily issues ..!!

I agree entirely. You can take the individual out of the cult, but can you take the cult out of the individual?

To "heal" does not mean to accept the BKs philosophical and organization corruption.

To truly "heal" would be to have the strength to ...
    Question that which should be questioned, and
    Condemn that which is worthy of condemnation.
We all know what the BKWSU is really about. Some cultures have the habit of looking up to authority and seniority, other cultures have the habit of questioning authority and looking to what is right whatever the cause. Some people physically leave the BKWSU but it remains within them. Others work to remove it.

What I see in Patzcuaro's conduct are similarities to what I saw in the BKWSU where certain leading individuals would look to seed doubts in others minds with negativity, without being specific what they were saying.

How on earth are we "confused" just because we have seen through the BKs charade?

For the record, I have on this forum and elsewhere defended cults in the past. Some people, during periods of transition or to escape unhealthy relationships, need somewhere to go and a group to going to sort themselves out. Being a member of a cult gives them a temporary personality that they can wear ... which a happy, smiley, Om Shanti face ... until they do that changing and leave, like you did. This is how ashrams should be.

I just believe those cults should be honest and ethical and where they are not, as with the BKs, they should be made to be honest and ethical. Societies should protect vulnerable individuals, not exploit them as the BKs do.

But the BKs are a kind of business cult. You join them to find peace and then 3 or 6 months later, however long it takes them, you are back out working for them for free, giving them money, running a business front for them and so on.

Naive Westerners are gullible to them because they don't know the Sindhi/Hindi culture ... but it's really nothing new.

Now please keep on topic.

Patzcuaro

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post18 Jan 2013

ex-l wrote:... We all know what the BKWSU is really about.

When you say "we all" of how many ex Brahmins are you talking?

Because I only see a very few of them posting comments against BK. And, on the contrary, I see the work of BK extending to millions all over the world and I am not saying there is nothing to change, but the attitude that will achieve those changes is definitely not that of yours.

If you deeply change your view to a more accurate and respectfull critic position you might have more impact on trying to change what you do not agree with. There can not be the slightest trace of rage in any of your contributions.
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ex-l

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post18 Jan 2013

Actually, if you speak to leading BKs, they will admit that this website *has* made them have to think and change, and they are still working on having to change because of the agenda *we* have set.

Look into the background to the "Global Function" episode and their latest historical revision project.

So you are talking caca* on many levels, and you are in no position to tell me or anyone else on this forum how to speak. Who is "raging"? I can write like this when I am 'utterly Om Shanti, Bhai', I just have a potty mouth. It's part of the honesty of my culture, and I like it.

The Brahma Kumaris have been outed for being deficient in ethics and a mind control, End of the World cult. Sure, millions flock to cults every year to try and find answers to questions; very few to the BKs ... and most people leave them or never go back. Just because a virus spreads, does not make it good and ...
    Bigger numbers don't mean better (... that is a typical BK game).
(* n.b. I had to write "caca" because if I wrote ****, the forum would censor it! No ******* swearing is allowed here).

ex.brahma

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post18 Jan 2013

patzcuaro

Ex-partner ... Ex-wife ... Ex-husband ... any Ex-, definitely indicates PARTING WAYS ...

The damage, the Brahma Kumaris cult teachings did to families, individuals and souls I personally know is irreparable, and has led many lovely married couples calling each other, "he/she is my ... EX" ...!!
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ex-l

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post18 Jan 2013

Thank you ex.Brahma for your simple honesty. I am sorry to hear of all the couples and families needlessly broken apart because of the harebrained 'End of the World' cult run by some old, uneducated women who have always lived off other people's money.
Patzcuaro wrote:I am not saying there is nothing to change ...

OK.

Well, if you want some respect around here, you'd better start by suggesting what needs to change and suggesting how.

If you want even more respect, try telling us what you have done to reform the BKs and how successful it was.

We are not running a cult living off other people's money here. We have no stolen or destroyed 1,000s of people's lives with our madness. We have no caused anyone to throwaway their life ...
    You need to start by correcting your sense of proportions.
But let's keep 'on topic' and start other discussions in other topics. If you have recommendations, Patzcuaro, start another topic or add them to another already existing one, e.g. "Effective strategies for reforming the BKWSU" or "What needs reformed & how it should be done".

clearernow

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post18 Jan 2013

ex-l wrote: Well, if you want some respect around here, you'd better start by suggesting what needs to change and suggesting how.

ex-l: And did I understand correctly that you meant constant non-constructive criticism and accusations while totally overlooking the positive side is what is needed to gain respect???

You are enough to change the BKWSU - Who else is needed? It's visible from the skewed representations of facts. In any case this topic was meant for experiences sharing and whenever there is anyone who is sharing positive experiences from BKs on this forum, all you single handedly try to do is to keep the focus away from those so that the website is full of manipulated representation & accusations towards BKs only. And for that, of course, anything positive about BKs will need to be suppressed, condescended whatever it takes.

I must admit you are quite smart at this - like in the above posts, you call someone sharing such beautiful and positive experiences from BKs honestly - a moron.

And someone who helps build the accusation list (in honesty again) very honest - how smatr and manipulative that is!

This is how propaganda for aimless missions are carried out which result in nothing while there is a delusion about it in the people leading such propaganda. This is so that misrepresentation continues and they achieve some mission and ego gratification. If you have made BKWSU change which you claim, congratulations - that will only make them even more revered organization no matter how much condescending you can be about them. If I have learnt the most basic but sound principle about change from BKs, that is to focus on changing myself which has its effect on changes that you want to see in others.

bkti-pit

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post19 Jan 2013

To see how easy it can be to fool someone into believing they have had a "God" experience watch this:

bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post19 Jan 2013

Dr Mario Beauregard, Ph D Neuroscience, author of 'The Spiritual Brain', on mystical states:

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ex-l

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post19 Jan 2013

Look, I have asked you twice now to keep 'on topic'. You're spoiling this topic.

This topic is for intelligent discussion of 'Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK ones'. If you want to discuss me or my conduct, find the other topic on just that, and complain there.

clearernow wrote:If I have learnt the most basic but sound principle about change from BKs, that is to focus on changing myself ...

It is also a highly useful device within a group for disempowering political change and I would argue, based on my own and others experiences, that the BKWSU leaders are extremely skilled in using it to disempower any positive and political change within the BKWSU that would question their status. A position that they live off.

Really what you are saying to me is "know your position" and don't question your superiors. Well, I don't believe the Brahma Kumaris are a higher caste and I don't believe they are beyond questioning.
... you call someone sharing such beautiful and positive experiences from BKs honestly - a moron.

No, don't twist my words.

I called Patzcuaro a " heartless, brainless and facetious cult moron" for claiming that to be told one is "immortal, subtle and divine beings" alone causes serious mental breakdowns, that it is "normal" (as in acceptable, nothing to worry about, nothing to examine or change), "the best of news ... which can never be be turned into something negative.", and for having no compassion for the families of individuals, or the suicide victims.

I did *not* call him a moron for discussing his experiences of God or questioning the different between BK and non-BK experiences (he already admitted the BKs were cult). If he had done so seriously, instead of writing a silly advert for the BKs, I would not have done so. Our standards are higher here. We demand deeper and more thoughtful contributions. I would say losing a child or two is a fairly negative experience.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't hear you sympathising for the victims either.

And I am sorry, far from a "skewed representations of facts", pretty much everyone in the BK movement who counts right now knows that we have change the game as far as 'factual representation' and 'historical accuracy'. If you don't believe me, go and ask them.

Patzcuaro

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post19 Jan 2013

ex-l wrote:So you are talking caca* on many levels, .

And you talk about spoiling this topic?

Sorry to tell you ex-I but you spoiled your own 6500 posts with only these few words, and you did it twice, in just two days.

But as I agree that, at the end of the road, this blog does make BK better and stronger, I'll try to forget your anger lapsus of confusion and I'll go back to sharing my thoughts and experience.

Love Patzcuaro
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ex-l

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post19 Jan 2013

If someone says they are not angry, why do you repeat that they are "angry"?

If someone is patiently answering various points of view logically, why do you repeat they are "confused"?


"Confused" from a BK merely means that the other person they are addressing does not accept what the BKs tell them to believe. No, I am very clear mind and well informed about the BKWSU.
    I am not a BK.
    I am not bound by their ridiculous, infantile standards of behaviour.
    I have no interest in pretending to be "royal" or behave like a cherub now (I use "cherubs" to mean baby angels because grown up angels certainly have more cojones than any male BK).
You're both just insulting me in an attempt to provoke a response ... whilst still ignoring the serious issue of your attitude towards the victims of the BKWSU ... and that is not very elevated nor divine behaviour. And then you sign your self off "love"? What silly things to suggest.

For god's sake ... both of you ... sober up, sort yourselves, be mature and start make some sense. Or clear out of here.

Add something worthwhile, or go.

kumar53

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post19 Jan 2013

I think, if anyone can attain God state or balanced/harmonious state, he can experience HIM.

clearernow

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post19 Jan 2013

ex-l wrote:For god's sake ... both of you ... sober up, sort yourselves, be mature and start make some sense. Or clear out of here.

Add something worthwhile, or go.

Which God did you mention here ex-l as you don't seem to believe any notion of God as such (out of curiosity)?

Majority of the posts on this forum are from you which I call a one man show with most repeating the same stuff 1,000s of times like destruction, end of the world, same accusations, exaggeration and magnification of negative aspects of BKs from your perception with lot of ridicule and so on ... only some of it makes sense to me and, of course, BKs need to work on their flaws to improve further. I do appreciate you being direct at times but most of it really is false propaganda and "not worthwhile" to me but yet they are to me just your opinions so you can keep repeating it.

You ask us to go which is not unexpected because you do not want anyone to talk anything positive about BKs - right?
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ex-l

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post19 Jan 2013

clearernow wrote:Which God did you mention here ex-l ... You ask us to go which is not unexpected because you do not want anyone to talk anything positive about BKs - right?

Which ever god you wish, and can put up a good argument for. BTW, I mean "argument" in the logical or philosophical sense of the word ... that is what this topic is about. You can try a deductive argument to prove BK god is the god of all religions, an inductive argument, or any kind of approach you want as long as it stays 'on topic'.
    But, please be aware, the quality and intent of your reasoning will also be examined.
... anything positive about BKs

Overall, is there anything positive about the BKs? There was another topic for that too.

Again, largely, it comes down to the quality of your argument. If it is just PR, sugar coating or "Bhakti", then no. There's no point. The BKs own websites are full of that and we have higher standards here. We will question and examine what you are saying, not just accept it on the basis of repetition.

We're about making public the other stuff and what need to be changed and done. The stuff the BKs cannot, have not or generally suppress people talking about. Discuss that sincerely and earnestly and we will respect and support you.

But if you're just looking to add to the cover up of all the historical revisions, the key element of Destruction and so on, you won't last long.

You're already losing brownie points fast due to your intention of spoiling this topic. You may not care about this forum, we do.
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