Message to BK Simon Blandford, Learningspirit & others

Please excuse the silliness of me having to communicate in this mannager but ... this is a Message to to Mr Blandford ... as I am banned from posting on the BKs' "Open" forum and was banned from privating messaging before that (ho hum) ... re: I am in the news today, oh boy! (Facebook and bkinfo site)

No, Matrimony for BK Followers is nothing to do with us here. If you have any queries about it, contact the clever and courageous organizer, Shweta Arora.

a) I have no idea who they are nor who is behind it
b) I was not and am not involved in setting it up or running
c) As far as I know, no one here was or is involved in setting it up. Certainly no one asked me about it.

For all intents and purposes, I believe Matrimony for BK Followers to be a genuine venture which is entirely independent of this forum which,

i) I think is wonderful and should be supported,
ii) Which asks some very good questions (who ever is behind it is way ahead of my curve as far as inside information goes)
iii) Should not be spoilt by your habitually nasty insinuations and false representations (that's a terrible sanskar you developed further during your Wikipedia days)
iv) I hope you are your BK wife do speak out about your experience, now it is in the public domain

For your information, there is no "bkinfo crew" here.

• Basically, there is no 'off forum' communication or collusion, and
• no 'off forum' conspiracy (that I know of)

What you see is what you get, and what you see 'off Brahma Kumaris Info' are other independent individuals acting in accordance with their own consciencess for whatever their own reasons are ... of which I know nothing because I don't ask or get involved. I just don't have the time to do so ... and herding ex-BK is a bit like herding feral cats.

For you and other readers information:

• Here at Brahma Kumaris Info we have attempted to establish and keep open channels of information to individual BKs and the leadership of BKWSU, even suggested that it was in their best interests to have one in order to resolve issues such as this.

We have been refused, rebuffed, had doors closed, being condescended to and insulted at pretty much every level.

• Out of respect for Simon's privacy, despite the efforts he and the IT team invested against us (including willing collusion with Dr BK Hansa Raval's private legal action and persistent efforts to discredit me and fudge the truth of the BKWSU on the Wikipedia), we previously anonymised all references to him.

As you are now back making false and damaging statements against us and out work, Simon, we'll have to remove that in order to communicate in this rather silly and very public manner.

I would like to suggest more mature ways of dealing with such situations if you and the BKWSU are interested.

I am, of course, interested from the point of view of documenting the development of the BKWSU, how you might develop a relationship and marry and still call yourself a BK. I am interested in the internal psychological negotiation that goes in such cases, how the current generations of BKs view such contradictions and how the leadership is handling them. As you see, my interests are all perfectly reasonable.

Given your extensive role in the unethical legal action and elsewhere, I do think there is are a number of 'public interest' factors relating to the nature of Brahma Kumarism.

Personally, I do respect private individuals' privacy, whereas I will take the liberty to comment on 'public figures' who have used or incorporated BKism and promote themselves where I believe there is a valid public interest ... and until the Brahma Kumari leaders sort out their **** and stop wrecking other families and robbing family wealthy on the basis of their End of the World beliefs, I think there is a valid public interest in all this.

In the case of you and your wife, the matter has reported elsewhere in public and so I am able to discuss that. You certainly had kept it from me in our private communication (... yes, no wonder!).

Perhaps now, instead of taking sides with the BKs and over-exciting them to more nastiness and negativity, you might join with us to resolve matters?

• Yes, the inequality of opportunity and manipulation of the following within the Brahma Kumari movement and its unwritten system of privileges concerns me.
• Yes, the lack of transparency and openness within the Brahma Kumari movement concerns me.
• Yes, the falseness of their presentation to the world, of which you willingly played a part wasting my precious time, concerns me.

And so it ... and the virtual enslavement of 1,000s of other young, perfectly attractive Indian women and the reaping of their dowries and the meddling of their minds ... should concern any other reasonable, thinking person.

I think that those of you involved with supporting the Western BKWSU Elite have an additional responsible to do something about all that. Or at least not support it.

If you would care to join us to discuss this, either please do so ... or allow me to respond on your "Open" forum.

If you stop throwing rocks at me and this forum (attempting to damage our credibility with false allegations), I'll stop delivering them back to you.

Simon, I remember having to fight against you to record in public evidenced facts that the BKWSU now, years later, is finally admitting was true all along (and only just). You were even willing to go as far as to use knowingly false arguments, in the public domain, to support what the BKWSU leaders knew was false. You had a choice to to to the BK leadership and check what we have been saying is, indeed, true. Instead you chose to invest 100s of hours trying to suppress the truth and damage or inhibit those who were promoting it ... as a representative of the BKWSU and for the benefit of the BKWSU.

Now, we discover that (without needing to go as far as discussing one's sex life) at the same time you appear to have broken Shrimat and done the unthinkable for most Brahma Kumaris ... married. I am sure even you can see the ethical problems in all that.

I suggest you withdraw your false and damaging comments, apologise, and we find some other way to resolve this.

Simon's original post ...

Simon mentions someone here who posted with a "snoopy" avatar and had long discussions with user John. I cannot remember what there were called, nor who they were. Very largely, posting on 'Brahma Kumaris Info' is anonymous and no one is required to identify themselves unless they want to. I don't ask who is who and take on trust their contributions. What matters is the content ... ah, it was Sweetchill.

Simon asks about the ethics of "outing" his "wife" Sanjela.

For the record, I never outed Sanjela. I did not know she existed, nor that they had married, until I read it on Facebook and all the information I have, or links given, are taken from the public domain which she herself has posted.

I did not know BKs were allowed to have girl and boyfriends these days, never mind have consensual, non-leadership accepted marriages ... whether celibate or not. I thought BKism was all about purity and non-attachment but I hope all Brahma Kumaris are able to find happiness and security in this manner and I would like to see evidence that the leadership is encouraging it.

Unfortunately, here I think you are suffering the "colour of your company" (to quote a BKism), and given Hansa's (and other high level individuals within the Brahma Kumaris record of visa marriages), it would seem fair enough to question whether the issue is more widespread.

• Do you live together then?

No, I don't have or use multi user names on Facebook to post against the Brahma Kumaris as you are suggesting. That's being nasty again ... and deliberately damaging

Ask first and shoot later ... not shoot first and then turn away.

Looks like after 5 years I've finally been outed by ex-l and crew as being married.

This is what was posted on a Facebook group called, "Matrimony for BK Followers".

Shweta Arora Quote:

Guys, we have a special person with us on this group, Sanjela Goundan. I don't know much about her but I know that she has been a part of Brahma Kumaris Family at London and 3 years ago, she married to Simon Blandford, who has also been a part of Brahma Kumaris Family at London. Simon has been a key person in Brahmakumaris IT Team and he had started the BK Forum - BrahmaKumarisForum.net, which has been very useful for all the BKs worldwide. Simon & Sanjela make a great pair together and this post is to ask Sanjela & Simon to share their wonderful experience with us, with the hope that their experience sharing would benefit & guide the BKs in this group. Please, Sanjela, we all would be so grateful to you & Simon for sharing your experience with us. Please do so! Thanks in advance!

There is also a discussion about this going on on the brahmkumaris.info forum going into all kinds of angles, speculation and depths on the matter I never thought were possible.

I never came across the BK.info crew on Facebook before and it appears they are creating a bunch of fake accounts that all pose as BKs. Once BKs have been duped into accepting them as friends then they find themselves subscribed to various groups celebrating subjects such as "Matrimony for BK Followers".

On Facebook a friend can join you to any group without your input. You can leave the group if you want and not get re-added but unless you are on top of things you could find yourself affiliated to all kinds of weird groups you had no intention of joining.

I did a bit of digging around and it seems there are quite a few fake accounts around that talk suspiciously like one or two members of the BK.info forum who I also encountered on Wikipedia. They usually pose as BKs, have in their profile that they worked and studied at the Brahma Kumaris, the banner picture may be some historical Yagya document that has been portrayed by ex-l as being controversial and there are loads of posts promoting the BK.info website. These various accounts tend to astroturf by commenting on each others posts to make it seem like everyone shares their point of view and avidly reads their website.

If you find yourself getting promotional bkinfo posts on Facebook you can report the post/user/group just by moving your mouse over the pop-up menu at the top-right corner of the item. Valid reasons for reporting an item include harassment, religious hate speech or a fake account.

Some of the aliases, such as "Shudra Das" who have replied to the post I have encountered before. He posted...

quote:

I was hoping that one of the happy couple would speak out. There could be no greater service.

The BK world needs both a little more love and a lot more honesty.

It's kind of rich for someone who never uses his real name and instead games Wikipedia and Facebook with loads of fake accounts to talk about "honesty".

Finally, I need to end some speculation,

1) No, Dadi or Jayanti Bhen did not have any part in us getting married, and certainly did not approve of it. It was me and Sanjela's choice alone.

2) Visa may have been a catalyst, as in, people who would normally be content to just have a casual relationship have to consider something more permanent if they don't want to end up on different continents. However we are still together after 5 years, so it obviously wasn't a sham.

3) No, we really don't want to "share". Frankly, we would just like to get on with our lives in peace. We are still active BKs and observe principals. What has happened has happened. Let it be.

4) I have never posted on the BK.info website. Whoever it was who had the "snoopy" avatar was someone else.

Otherwise I am happy to discuss the ethics exposing the full name of Sanjela who has never had a public role in the BK. Would you be happy if your full name and personal information was splashed all over the BK.info website in this context?

Lastly.

The issue of "outing" and multiple accounts comes up yet again, as a tool the BKs and their supporters use to discredit this site or distract from more important issues.

Firstly, Simon was part of a group of BKs who colluded with Hansa Raval to "out" whoever was behind this website in order for her to personally sue them.

Prior to that, we always respected and protected individuals anonymity and kept to ourselves. The BKs have wasted vast amounts of time speculating and accusing various individuals, and were frustrated not to know who it was because they had no angle on them. Since using her legal action as a tool to expose 'part' of who were behind it, they have invested even more energy dreaming up crap to discredit those individuals and circulating them.

As those relates to me, I am sick of their petty, low level of consciousness.

People in glasshouses, should not throw stones.

Secondly, Simon refers to the Wikipedia where a group and a constant procession of aligned and non-aligned BKs have attempted to turn the BKWSU topic page into an advert for their cult religion. Simon himself invested 100s of hours systematically documenting and using technicalities to trying to ban non-compliant individuals, and exclude non-compliant voices. Again, this was one of them.

Had the BK tag team just worked to establish the truth (internally and externally), and not invested themselves in falsifying over the decades, there would have been no need for such conflict and their dirty trick campaigns ... the details of which I wont bother you with here; except to underline how much of a waste of individuals' time and energy it was.

Simon,

I think you are being very wrong and very unfair about your "warning to other BKs that they were being duped on Facebook". As far as I can see, the BK Matrimony page is entirely genuine.

And ... as a BK who has chosen the Matrimony option* ... it's unfair for you to spoil a similar option for other BKs.

I'll confirm it to you again ...

Who ever is behind 'Matrimony for BKs' has *nothing* to do with this website and if you cannot believe that, it is because you yourself have the habit of being dishonest and cannot sense or trust when other people are being honest.

No one here knew anything about it, nor had any input into its creation. I, personally, have no idea who or where they are, nor why they are doing what they are doing. As a spiritual being, I have to trust that they are being sincere until proven otherwise.

And, why not ... if you can find love and happiness in a marriage ... why shouldn't other BKs do so?

If you go right back to the beginning of our relationship, you're the one who got involved and created the monster, you made the accusations and created the situation, you got involved with Hansa Raval, and even now you are still trying to create false monsters. Learn the lesson!

To quote BK Sister Jayanti,

"It's your karma ..."

And it's your decision whether to change it or not ... to transform the impure to pure.

One thing I will say is this ...

We don't have a "crew" here ... and what a nasty and condescending way of speaking, I must say ... but what do we have is support, and sources of information, from within the BKWSU and from without the BKWSU.

People who see, and have seen, what goes on and don't like it either ... from both a BK point of view, and a non- or ex-BK point of view. They don't like the hypocrisy and corruption ... and, trust me, we know of a lot more that we are not saying just yet.

And, yes, that includes inside Global Co-operation House too.

I don't think of you as a BK. You're just another human being. An equal. You deserve as much happiness and freedom as life can afford you. You might be a "BK follower", but this issue of a willing marriage even raises questions about that because it is clearly against Shrimat and what is written in the Murlis.

The Brahma Kumaris are the ones who have created all these problems by filling 'people-like-you's heads full of falsehood and lies for decades. Those lies and falsehoods you were fighting to make the truth in public. Fact. I use the term "Brahma Kumaris" for just the core of the movement, the Kirpalani Klan, the inner circle of which you and Sanjela are not even part of, and never will be ... they who use you to do their dirty work for free.

Lose the habit of deceiving, and of trying to make falsehood truth by repetition.

What does "Shudra Das" mean anyway? ... I think these modern BKs are just too small minded and not well enough educated in religion to understand what is being said to them half the time.

Das, from dāsa (Sanskrit: दास) means 'servant' or 'slave', but is usually used for 'a servant of God'. Is "Shudra Das" a 'Shudra servant', or a 'servant of shudras' (and we all know how the "Brahmin" BKs use the term "shudras" for non-BKs)?

(When you hear a name "... Das", generally it's a spiritual name for one surrendered to or serving God).

The BKs should be careful. They've done so much crap in their time, they don't want any more coming out.

*(Even if it is just to give another BK a Visa ... Let all BKs have the same opportunities, I say).

Ditto other Indians from Mauritius.

No wonder everyone wants to come to England. There's so much money and security to be made out of the property market.

This is mainly for 'Learningspirit', but just to keep this discussion focused and in context.

Learningspirit, you strike me as someone a little bit young and inexperienced. Tred careful before becoming involved in other people's complex issues of which you know and understand little ... Remember, "fools rush in where angels fear to tred."

Now, if you don't understand, bacchi, it's a question of ethics. Actually, there are a number questions arising. If you want me to explain them, just ask nicely. Show respect and you'll get respect back; show disrespect and ... well, you don't want to know what.

The BKs are already discussing whether to hush-hush all this up and hide it away from public and are congratulating their Brother for marrying his Sister whilst continuing to "defame" non-BKs.

Baba says – even if anyone slits your throat, you should not become impure. Children ask Baba – what should I do in this circumstance? Then Baba understands that he/she cannot tolerate. So, Baba says – go and become sinful. This depends on you. He may kill you for this one birth, but you are killing yourself for 21 births.

Revised Sakar Murli: 1 Sept 2007

The mouth born progeny of Prajapita Brahma are Brothers and Sisters, aren’t they? A Brother can never marry his Sister ... by considering yourself to be Brothers and Sisters, you become lovely children of the Father and members of Godly community.

Revised Sakar Murli: 26 June 2009

Some of you marry through Gandharvi marriage, yet, they end the drama (of purity) the very next day. Maya pulls a lot. Ravan makes you criminal.

Revised Sakar Murli dated 22 July 2009

They ask Baba, should I get married? Baba understands that he is interested in getting married. Baba will say – you are the master of yourself – you may go to hell or you may go to the abode of Vishnu.

Revised Sakar Murli: 7 Sept 2007

The world is very dirty. Dirty people come to the centers. They get entangled in name and form. Many kinds of obstacles are also created in the Yagya. Maya also creates obstacles. Then they suffer defeat ...

They obtained sustenance for so many years; then they got married and went somewhere or the other. They surprisingly run away.

Revised Sakar Murli dated 18 Dec 2007

No wonder the BKs want to hide the Murlis too ... they don't want us quoting them back to them, asking why they want us to follow them but they don't!

Technically Mr Blandford is now ex-BK!

They are either not following Shrimat or the marriage is one of convenience.

Thank you. mr green. As ever, you make me laugh.

The core of the BKWSU is a toxic place full of contradictory behaviour, unequal treatment, unwritten privileges and dark secrets ... from where innocent and naive adherents are manipulated and their good will and good intention used and abused.

Pink Panther,

You don't see the embarassment faced by Simon in this case at all!

What is embarrassing about being married?

BK's personal decisions should be respected with respect to privacy. Even if in the past someone acted on behalf of an organization, the antagonism is with the organization not the person.

Simon did not just "act on behalf of the organization". He chose to become involved in "outing" of the individuals who set up this anonymous forum for Dr BK Hansa Raval's personal benefit, in order that she could sue them for copy and pasting a journalist's opinion. He stepped outside of the organization to join her attacking this website for personal reasons.

Why have I not seen any BKs discuss the ethics of that, and why have Simon, Hansa and the BKWSO/BKWSU not apologised and resolved that?

Someone who chooses to become involved in a legally spurious endeavour to 'out' someone else for personal gain (Hansa Raval was unlawfully using the BKWSO 501[c] for her own personal benefit), they cannot complain if their ethics are then publicly questioned.

Especially when both their actions contradict the teachings of that religion.

One thing I notice is whereas we can see evidence that the Khanna's are/were obviously very happy and in love with each other, I don't see any similar photos of the Blandford's wedding.

A happily married ex-BK couple, obviously very much in love

Happily_married_ex-BK_couple.jpg (27.8 KiB) Viewed 29744 times

It doesn't mean that one needs to seek revenge in such a defamatory fashion with a person. And BK info is a more publicly viewed web-site by the people interested in BKs (because of the misleading name rather than content) rather than an isolated personal page called matrimony for BKs (which Google will not lead you to). Not many knew about that FB personal page till it was highlighted (and adding lots of typical anti-BK bits) by BKInfo

Can you prove that allegation? Can you even clarify what you mean? I don't see any "anti-BK bits" added by any "BKinfo".

Look at the nature of your language ... "anti-" ... "revenge" ... "defamation".

Firstly, 'truth' cannot be defamation. Defamation is the communication of a 'false' statement. There is nothing defamatory about discussing the ethics of a privileged inner circle of BKs being allowed to marry whilst the vast majority of young Kumaris are forbidden to and would be chucked out if they did. Nor is it defamation to discuss the hypocrisy of secret marriages and so on.

And revenge is a highly emotive and loaded word. Is righting a wrong "revenge"? Is campaigning for honesty and equality within the BKWSU "revenge"?

Methinks you are displaying the limited level of your own understanding and consciousness and it ain't very divine.

I understand your logic but am surprised you defend such acts in public forums. So you are promoting revenge by someone against other person by publishing their photos and personal information on their web-site???

If BK info really wanted to just use this FB stuff then why were the photos of other BKs who married published in the same way as Simon's info was published?

All of the photos are in the public domain already (as are details of Raval 'secret' marriage and tardy divorce within BKWSO). Simon chose to step outsides of the private realm when he chose to act on behalf of the self-promoting Brahma Kumari elite in a very public legal action against us. I never.

At the time the BKs struck, we were in the middle of establishing an NPO to manage this website. I happened to pay for the domain name, that is all. I had no wishes nor intention to run it. In fact, very specifically, I did not want to. I wanted to remain a private individual, and just sort out my feelings.

We're discussing the issue of marriage within the BKWSU/BKWSO. It is a very contentious or even taboo subject. I consider it is of great pubic interest because of the cult's policy of forbidding 1,000 of young girls marriage and encouraging them into a life of unpaid servitude. I believe in one rule for all and those rules being explicitly clear and documented. I think that one rule for the elite and one rule for the masses is wrong.

Tell me how many other center-in-charges the BKWSO/BKWSU has allowed to marry and carry on a relationship whilst holding her position and why they allowed her to do so?

If you knew a center-in-charge had married and carried out a relationship, would you support her and should she still be in a position of power and influence representing the cult?

Learningspirit,

You have a very limited and toxic view of us.

This forum grew out of xBKchat which, we were informed, Hansa Raval's BKWSO had some part in shutting down.

When we started, we chose an all inclusive, ecumenical approach and invited all parties to join us to discuss their experience and to openly document the history and knowledge of the Brahma Kumari movement with forums for BK, PBKs, ex-BKs and others.

Simon and Hansa and others colluded to threaten/damage/destroy us. You should ask Simon why, and how much he was involved ... it appears to have been a bit of a "secret operation" involving the BKWSU/BKWSO elite.

The forum promised individuals the protection of anonymity because the issues individuals wished to discuss in public where private, e.g. the problems of re-adjsting to normal society after having been in an End of the World cult.

Simon and Hansa and others colluded to 'out' those individuals in order then to sue them ... for what, I have no idea for they had done no wrong.

I know far more about the inner workings of those websites than you and, especially, what my own intentions were. I joined to discuss my experiences and work out my own feelings about the time of my life that the Brahma Kumaris wasted and how it affected me, and to help others going through the same experiences.

Do we not have the right to meet and talk in public?

The Brahma Kumaris are clandestine, Right Wing and non-democratic cult who believe in rule by divine right largely based on hereditary factors and run an international mafia-like organization which operates numerous legitimate looking fronts.

Obviously, they did not think we do and when we ... independent BKs, PBKs, ex-BKs and non-BKs ... started to openly discuss matters they wished to keep suppressed, they chose to try and hurt us, and supported one of their 'enforcers' attack us.

I appreciate that Simon probably did not know that Raval had been so "impure" and hypocritical. At the time he probably did not know the BKWSU had falsified so much of its history and changed so much of its philosophy.

But ... that raises a BK issue which I think is very important. The responsibility of each and every one of us who is or has been involved in promoting the Brahma Kumaris to ensure that what we are promoting is the truth.

Had the BKs older than me been responsible and exercised their "due care" ... and promoted only the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about the Brahma Kumaris to us ... my and 10,000s of other individuals' lives would never have been messed up by them.

In your very limited mentality, you call us "anti-BKs". Presumably you have been taught or influenced by them to think that?

I think of us as being very courageously "pro-truth" and a little bit pro-democrat reform of the BKWSU.

Please allow me to finish with this. The Brahma Kumaris love to exaggerate their connection with the United Nations.

Article 19 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948), states:

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Obvious it does not apply in the Brahma Kumari movement.

ex-l,

You complain about stones being thrown. You mean the references about this forum on bkforum. A forum is a place where everyone states his opinion. It is not all about truth. One can share emotional matters, irrational opinion or even throw stones. You ask others to see their language, but you use the same language. e.g. "You have a very limited and toxic view of us."

littleo,

The main thing here is the issues not the people.

We could remove the names ex-l and SimonB and merely say, person x and person y, and organisation Z, and discuss the ethics, contradictions, etc of the issues 'hypothetically".

But it is real people, with beating hearts involved, so emotions will sometimes run high and I think that is a good thing - up to a point, for we all need reminding that we pump the same colour blood and share the humanity of each person caught up in this alternate universe that is the BK phenomenon.

If we need to sometimes pull each other up to not fall into direct abuse of a person, that is good and the proper thing to do - the role of a friend or facilitator, but we should not deny emotions. Nor should we seek to discuss personal matters any more than needed, if it is directly related to the issue.

For example, if someone who preaches against homosexuality - is their diet relevant, or how many children they have? (Hitler was vegetarian and loved (white) children and animals ? Is that relevant to his hatred of homosexuals, especially Jewish or black ones?)

But what if it was found that the public homophobe crusader was themselves homosexual, is that personal detail still irrelevant?

For example, if someone who preaches against homosexuality - is their diet relevant, or how many children they have? (Hitler was vegetarian and loved (white) children and animals ? Is that relevant to his hatred of homosexuals, especially Jewish or black ones?)

But what if it was found that the public homophobe crusader was themselves homosexual, is that personal detail still irrelevant?

I take your valid point but, please, Hitler wasn't a vegetarian. He was promoted as being such to increase the idea of him as an esoteric aesthete but his diet has been well documented and, in between all the “Panzerschokolade” ('tank-chocolate, or methamphetamine) it contained many animal products, including sausages and bulls' testicles injections.

Having said that, these always struck me as strangely tender photographs proving what the Buddha said was true ... there's love, goodness and compassion within everyone.

Deer Hitler

As far as I know, when ex-l was fighting for the wikipedia, he also said it wasn't him. Is this not true? Someone correct me if I am wrong.

I am not making any accusation, I am just saying, if that is true about wikipedia, it says something about how much ex-l's affirmations can be trusted. I think it's good to make those things clear, rather then pretending they don't exist. The people have the right to be informed.

I have my own recollection of the Wikipedia episode. If you're interested in hearing my side of the story, just ask nicely. I only ever wanted to have one account to edit with. Simon attempted to manipulate for this benefit of the BKWSU rolling one accusation on top of the next because he (approx), "did not want me editing on the website at all".

In an unsual decision, an IP address, not me, was banned for a year for suggesting Avyakt7 was committing a crime by using a workplace computer to promote his religion during working hours. It's fairly easily to "win" at the Wikipedia if you're willing to invest a lot of time into making up snitch reports against others ... but you mustn't misunderstand what an "indefinite ban" is. It's just an undefined ban ... it does not mean for the rest of the Kalpa, and every Kalpa afterwards.

I am pretty sure that original ban is over now.

Unlike the BKWSU leaders, ex-l doesn't run a multi-million dollar 'End of the World' religion enculting 1,000s of virgins, encouraging people to break their families apart, and hand over their wealth and property, on the basis of impossible promises and a series of failed predictions.

There is quite a large scale of differences involved. I am a private individual who, I think it is fair to say, has never sought to promote themselves in public for any personal gain and is very unlikely to encult even one virgin. I've never advertised myself. It was only Simon and Hansa who ever tried to make me into something I was not against my will.

Talking about the Wikipedia, is not it logical to suggest that someone who was bending or breaking Shrimat would be more likely to try and present the BKWSU as something more vague and tolerant than it is, in order to accommodate the liberties they were taking?

Whereas someone who values truth and accuracy, and whose nature it is to follow Shrimat religiously, would be more inclined to portray the BKWSU as it is?

Two BKs choosing to marry themselves was unthinkable in my time and, I suspect, still is for most of the movement. I'd like to know how it works and if all BKs now have that option. If I was still a BK, I'd much prefer to live with a nice smelling, attractive and talented Sister; than in a virtual 'gay celibate marriage' with a BK Brother.

It strikes me there is more than a movement to rebrand the Brahma Kumaris, there is a movement to redefine it from the bottom up.

I take your valid point but, please, Hitler wasn't a vegetarian.

Umm, I wrote in a "?" - maybe a little cryptic or under-written, but it (the question mark) meant "it may've been true or not; it may've been PR" - but, in the light of his actions, whether true or not, it is a personal detail that is irrelevant. But what if he really was black and gay? Then that would be a relevant!

Two BKs choosing to marry themselves was unthinkable

It only takes one BK to "marry" themselves! I am sure most do (when they turn out the light) but they have to report it, or 'tell Baba" and not do it again for 6 months before they go to Madhuban .

Surely you mean "one BK to mar themselves" ... or mar their chart? (nb for non-English readers: 'mar' means spoil).

Yes, that is true. You are talking about masturbation and, again, in the old days, a single act or even a wet dream would be enough to do as you say ... '6 months or one year with no Madhuban'. Yes, I heard a simple foreign BK Brother in Shanti Bhavan repent for just that, and be be similarly punished (... or perhaps he was repent from having confessed it to a Senior Sister. Apparently it's more widespread than I realised! ). I never thought to ask ... nor asked for details.

Choose the wrong time of year to 'exercise your free will', and it might end up being 14 months because Baba used to come but once a year. Now some BK can freely marry and still go ... amazing.

Does anyone *really* believe all those teenagers are going to make it to adulthood without having an 'accident', or is it just a system designed to always make you a failure and keep you down in some department or another?

Has anyone here fallen in love with a BK Sister or Brother and, how was it for you? Any stories? Do any of you regret you were not able to marry them/one?

I am still hoping for some real discussion of the issue from the BKs side. I see Simon has not removed his allegations.

To Simon and the BKs.

May I also add to what I wrote above ... I see there are a number of individuals who cross-post topics from here to Facebook but, again, I have no idea who they are, what their no doubt valid and personal motivation is, nor do I have any connection to them.

There is no "crew". We don't sit down and have "service meetings" about how to crush other websites off Google like you guys do nor work out to plans of how to do so. You can tell that to the Kirpalani Klan, and your SEO experts.

I accept no responsibility for others, so please remove your allegation ... but I am grateful more truth about the Klan is spreading. More open discussion about the BKWSUA is always welcome. Indeed, those individuals are independent sources and doing their own research which I have started to report on here. Good for them.

The BKWSU is so full of it, it is more work than one person can ever hope, humanly, to pick up on.

I quickly scanned the BKs' forum and they are demanding my attention regarding something ... please excuse me whilst I send some semaphore signals over their castle walls.

You BKs really need to consider some kind of more mature and confidential messaging system ... and get someone of a higher rank involved before you screw up on the BKWSU.

Learningspirit ... is this a message for you? I cannot tell. You BKs all seem to think and read the same to me. But listen ... "defaming Baba" is not some non-BK criticising the BKWSU. "Defaming Baba" is a BK breaking the Maryadas.

Firstly, before you provoke me or the situation in anyway ... please take Shrimat.

I mean that very seriously. You are headed way out of your depth.

Go to Jayanti or whoever your Senior Sister is, contact the Global Functioning people ... speak to someone who is more responsible than you and tell them something like, "I've got a really good idea, let's rattle ex-l's cage and provoke the people at Brahma Kumaris Info" ... and see what they say.

Then come back and tell us afterwards.

Are you trying to prove the criticisms we are making to the world are true? All you will do is makes people who read this forum more disgusted and more determined to protect others against the Brahma Kumaris.

The BKWSU is like a vast, corporation run oil tanker, cruising in the sea. It is no longer capable of stopping, turning around or maneuvering quickly ... even when it should. We are like the Greenpeace activists trying to stop it pollute the environment, crush other small boats, and exploit its workers as it plies its trade.

Or, to use a different metaphor ... if the BKWSU wants to play Colonels in US Army, we are the Viet Cong.

Look what happens ... the BKs start threatening us again, and Sheikh Abdul Aziz bin Ali Al Nuaimi gets a number of emails warning him about the BKWSU. Thanks guys.

Like it or not ... and you obviously don't ... we're changing the course of BKWSU and for the better; making it more honest, more open and having to think about itself. Other more enlightened BKs have the wisdom to see that and have admitted it. Where the BK is failing is where it is turning to even more deceits instead.

You may be uncomfortable with that, and our methods. I have no idea why. It is not your business. The BKs are only using you. You're not even part of them. Indeed, you're probably even dispensable to them ... so what motivates you to get involved? Ego or pride of association? They're not very spiritual qualities.

If you cannot understand the ethical issues we are raising, and why they are valid, then I suggest you take some classes in ethics.

I've had a look on there and I cannot believe the simplicity of these people's reasoning! High school politicians! HAHAHa The funny thing is, why is BkSimonB embarrassed about being married??? As usual it's all very odd.

As for the other people getting all worked up (BK nobodies), it reminds me of every time something is revealed. Like that guy running that retreat centre who advertised the BKs on his site, suddenly we were swamped by angry supporters who had nothing to contribute except bile ...

People, my advice is leave Gyan and get a life ... get married, for example.

When I was a BK, I was told off by Maureen Goodman for walking to the park with a Sister! How things have changed.