BK attitudes to Education / University

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Minesh

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BK attitudes to Education / University

Post01 Jul 2013

ex-l wrote: I accept this has changed for some but I am not sure of how widely. Of course, it would be a better thing if they were really educating and committing to educate all their followers. By feeling was that our minds were actually beaten down, made smaller and more stupider to fit the size and shape of theirs (they being the old original BKs/leaders).

I know one younger BK who did go to university with the full intention of being a great example and even proving Gyan via science (approx) but who had a very difficult and unhappy time being a square Brahmin peg in the round hole of university life.

The BKs discouraged me from attending University but that's the one point I did not move on. They were generally pushing me to 'surrender' and devote all my time to the organisation and service. University was seen as the home of Maya where boys and girls mixed freely and had fun, and the BKs feared I would be dragged into such a world.

Thank God I listened to my inner voice and did what I thought was right. How can anyone discourage anyone from learning? To be able to think for yourself, question, reason and critically evaluate things ... all skills that education should give you! Logic would dictate that the more educated and learned BK followers are then, all other things being equal, it may help them in recruitment but that doesn't seem to be their thinking. The less you know about the world the better, as you will question less and be a better BK!

I knew a few bright, intelligent BKs, however, did not pursue University as it was not encouraged ... Destruction was just round the corner, so why waste time in learning something that will be of no use? I am sure inside their heart they had wanted to. I feel especially sad for the people who were told this in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

I think these days there is not the same pressure but I could be wrong as I am no longer a 16 year old so cannot comment on what they are telling young people these days - anyone have any experiences to share?

On a related point, it also seems there are also less 'hardcore' young BKs now - that era in which Hindu parents became BKs and expected the same from the children has gone which could mean that the pressure to surrender etc is probably not a big issue.

Any thoughts?
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enlightened

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post01 Jul 2013

Minesh wrote:The BKs were discouraging me from attending University but that's the one point I did not move on. They were generally pushing me to 'surrender' and devote all my time to the organisation and service ... Thank God I listened to my inner voice and did what I thought was right.

Good on you, Minesh!! You really made a wise decision. My education was affected from the time I was exposed to the Brahma Kumaris (under the age of 10). I really couldn't even focus on education and I think it had a lot to do with the brainwashing and dogma. I think I was quite intelligent when I was younger, however, it all got crushed by the time I was 10 years old or thereabouts. There was such conflicting information being given to me from everywhere ... and, unfortunately, I was very very vulnerable and fell for all the stupidity that the Brahma Kumaris drummed into my psyche.

I was one of those youngsters who was discouraged from further education. I started work at the age of 18. I was even stupid enough to go to work in all white at the age of 18 every day of the week. That's how badly it affected me ... I feel so stupid for having done that now ... but I wasn't to know.
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Oliver

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post01 Jul 2013

In my opinion, there are most likely less hardcore young BKs now as the rules have been relaxed, the destruction theory and much more is not fed to the young BKs. Such a sad loss for the people you mentioned for the 70s, 80s and 90s. What a waste of a life.

The BKs call themselves a University, does it carry any form of qualification?
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ex-l

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post02 Jul 2013

Minesh wrote:On a related point, it also seems there are also less 'hardcore' young BKs now - that era in which Hindu parents became BKs and expected the same from the children has gone which could mean that the pressure to surrender etc is probably not a big issue. Any thoughts?

I cannot speak for India, and that is the big missing components in our understanding, but guess the majority of Indian parents in the Western BKWSU back then had much less in life, including education themselves. They had just arrived in the UK, some with very little. They were mostly of the lower castes. The BKs provided some kind of new, improved Hinduism Lite™ for them ... I think the BKs have specifically targeted Sindi ex-pats and emigrant Hindu communities ... what would they know?

My impression is that they were mainly a Gujerati and trusted what the Sindis told them God's word was. How were they to know it had be revised many times? I suppose it was just exploiting their natural instinct to want the best for their child and for their child to get ahead ... and if ahead led to Golden Palaces and high status in the Golden Age, which was benefit their "karma", then push their daughters into surrendering they would.

Oliver, you raise a good point about the absolute audacity and insult of the Brahma Kumaris calling themselves a "University", the translation they chose for "Vishwa Vidyalaya". "Oh, we're not a university, we're a "Spiritual University" they say ... what does that mean? Just because it is a "Spiritual University", does it exempt it from doing all the things a university does? No, it just sounds expansively impressive.

I remember it was said in the Murlis by Lekhraj Kirpalani, "call yourself a University then no one will complain" ... it has worked for them. They have gotten away with it despite the law in most countries requiring any "university" to be formally recognised. Interestingly, what I did not know back then was that they had widely been accused of being a cult based on hypnosis before then.

A question for both of you ... how can BK kids be brought up and *not* be told about Destruction?

Minesh, you also mentioned earlier you were grateful for their introduction of concepts such as virtues and values. Of course, we would have to discuss which virtues and values and how they interpreted them. Couldn't a dictionary, and perhaps some classic literature, given you just as good an introduction to them without any of the additional overheads?

How was the real university for you? Did you have fun or did you stick it out, and stick out, as a BK and serve them instead? I know others for whom it was difficult.


Yes, I was of a generation who were encouraged to get a low paid, demeaning and brain dead job, and gave up further education/university. I am suffering from it until now. I was actually in a first year when I encountered the BKs and it became obvious that I could not follow the career/professional that I wanted and be a BK at the same time. At that time they did not take many surrender individuals at all ... they needed income more and so you were pressed to work.

They not only encouraged individuals out of educations but also encouraged them away from enterprise/business ... and, of course, at that time (unlike now it seems) BKs were not allow to discuss or develop business ideas together.

Looking back, I have no idea what they thought we were meant to be doing. As I often pick up, their system was and still is hugely abstract and unequal. Someone in business was allow to do business but someone not in business was not allow to start it. No BK was allow to help another BK up. If you had a profession or were an "-ologist", you were some kind of super star and used for VIP service ... but if you did not have one you were not allow to become one even if you were perfectly capable of doing so thereby excluding you from the cushy "service" jobs.

I've been reading about you Enlightened ... now I am thinking of my own experience, how bizarre their environment was and how much I lost.

We were also not allowed to be on the dole either which really should have been none of their business if one was or was not, according to whether one could find work or not ... or whether one was using that time to work out one's mental and emotional issues.

I am a great believer that young people straight out of school or university should take a "gap year" or two, travel, unwind, widen their perspectives ... see a bit of the rest of the world away from their crazy families and to do as Enlightened is doing now ... find out who they are and what they want to do. An utterly alien idea to our the BK overlords.

They even owned, as En wrote, what we wore, how we moved, how we spoke, when we cut our hair, what belongings we had etc ... any alternative hobbies or interests were out. Even health and exercise. It was a total invasion if you let them ... and the teachings absolutely encouraged you to do so.

What makes it more bizarre was they they were ruled by an educationally stunted, Janki Kirpalani, who had only two years of school or something (basic arithmetic) and never held a job, and a university drop out called Jayanti Kripalani who only did a couple of terms as pharmacy school (correct details if required).

Jayanti Kripalani is obviously gifted intellectually. With her memory, she could have achieved greatness. In her biography, she blames her dropping out on British Universities for being racist and sexist ... but there has to be more than that. I think it is a politically correct sounding pose. If I remember right, her grades were not good enough to get in to London University ... but she could have re-sat or tried to get into a different university.

I suspect Jayanti just really did not want to do either medicine or pharmacy and her BK mother and Father would not let her leave their home or do/find what she really wanted to do in life. As Liz Hodgkinson wrote, "her natural bent was not to sciences but arts" and what she had was a "burning desire" to be financially independent and have status. Her mother had been a BK since 1957 when she was 8 years old ... possible before there was even a god Shiva in their religion.

Sudesh was another non-starter in the education department. Not stupid by any means (well, OK, stupid enough to stare at the Sun until it blinded one eye) but not developed either.

Given their degree of influence in shaping the Western BKWSU, might it be worth discussing them within this context?
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Minesh

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post06 Jul 2013

Some good points there.

Life at uni was awkward and, yes, I did stick out like a sore thumb. I did not have the social skills to mix with others yet I wanted to feel free, develop, experience new things but felt bounded by my own thoughts and a fear of what bad karma I may be doing. I did not realise that if I was honest with myself and was not harming anyone then I was doing nothing wrong.

The BKs like the association with highly educated & distinguished people but yet do not encourage their followers to strive to become that themselves. I would like to see BKs encourage their followers to also pursue outside goals and interests.
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prosheen

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post06 Jul 2013

"Jayanti Kripalani is obviously gifted intellectually"

I am sorry but I don't find her that much intellectual. I have observed she often gets stuck in replying to questions and what follows then is same repetitive quotations, examples without an iota of understanding the cause of the question in the person asking it (she cannot feel the nabz or pulse of person in BK language).
"Sudesh was another non-starter in the education department. Not stupid by any means (well, OK, stupid enough to stare at the Sun until it blinded one eye) but not developed either."

I have heard her twice and to me she looks honest, listens to person and is also ready to learn unlike Jayanthi who cannot stand a better intellect. ex-l what was this staring at Sun incident?

By the way, hello to everyone, this is prosheen and my first contribution.
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ex-l

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post08 Jul 2013

prosheen wrote:I am sorry but I don't find her that much intellectual. I have observed she often gets stuck in replying to questions and what follows then is same repetitive quotations, examples without an iota of understanding the cause of the question in the person asking it (she cannot feel the nabz or pulse of person in BK language) ..

Fair comment. Perhaps I should correct myself and say "... with her memory".

Of course, one can also be intelligent but lack integrity. Or be intelligent and manipulative. Or be intelligent and be trapped within a system ... but I would have thought with a memory and translating skills like that, she could had a good career if she had applied herself to education instead of being distracted by a spiritualist cult she became a medium for.

Perhaps she never had a chance what with her mother being a BK.

She must know much more than she says or lets on. I mean, we know a tiny bit of what she does and does not say but there must be much, much more.

Sudesh is blind in one eye. It often used to water a lot. That was from when she sat starring at the sun in some Bhakti ritual before become a Brahma Kumari ... or at least that is the story she used to tell.
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Oliver

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post08 Jul 2013

Minesh wrote:Some good points there. The BKs like the association with highly educated & distinguished people but yet do not encourage their followers to strive to become that themselves. I would like to see BKs encourage their followers to also pursue outside goals and interests.

This is a good point, however, frankly speaking, I cannot see BKs encouraging their followers to pursue outside goals, as who would offer free labour if you're busy living your own life?
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Pink Panther

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post12 May 2015

So, it seems that the Brahma Kumaris Spiritual University is a real University of the highest standards after all
(although it seems the Principal needs to go back to primary school ... ”certifity”?).

BK Certificate Godstralia.jpg
BK Certificate Godstralia.jpg (49.98 KiB) Viewed 5406 times
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ex-l

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post12 May 2015

This is for real!?! A BKWSU certificate?

It has the official BK trademark.

I've never heard of "Godaustralia". As usual, the BKs' fail in the subjects of punctuation and grammar (the highest respect?).

I am sorry but ... God hates Australia. It's official ...



Say what you like about the religion, but what would comedians tell jokes about if it was not for all the material religionists give them.
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Free Speech

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post12 May 2015

hahaha... :D

Is there an end to BKs s*** & stupidity?

Now, there is a "certifiticate" also. What's next ... Gold & silver medals from god, tournaments & trophies from God? People would laugh on that certifi'ti'cate. Wait a minute..I made two spelling mistakes. Following Gods spelling made me wrong. This is what happens when you follow BKs GOD. BK God does not even know the spelling of "certificate". Well BKWSU can check it here or google it.

Endless stupidity is going on in BKWSU. BKs ... stop that madness or you would be considered a joke everywhere. So, does the certificate mean that this person is one of the 108 or 16,000 ... or whatever figures they use? If it is so, I think all BKs must line up to get one for themselves.

BTW, how much has to be paid to get it? Advice for BKs - In case, if you don't get one from BKWSU, print it yourself - it will also work in same way.
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ex-l

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post12 May 2015

Only two? ... Your spelling and grammar was so bad, now I think you are a BK in disguise.

The BK school/university doesn't teach spelling and grammar. It's below them. They don't follow other people's rules/advice; it's manmat.

Bad spelling and grammar is Shrimat.

God's ... BKs' ...

Being serious for a moment, the Brahma Kumaris destroyed a lot of young people's education and career by encourage an anti-education world view. It's still there is the Murlis ... "other universities only off limited benefits, this university offers unlimited benefits ... this is the highest education ... the Godly university" etc etc etc.

Higher education was a waste of time and energy because the world was going to be destroyed and it was a "pull on the intellect", a distraction.

I know as I was one.

In truth, looking back, I think the main reason was they did not want adherents to be other by other influences, encouraged to think and question etc.

They are anti-intellectual. They talk about "understanding" but they have no idea what understanding means ... they mean just "accept". Acceptance of unrealistic and illogical beliefs via constant repetition ... or brainwash. You cannot call them "facts" or "knowledge" although, conceitedly, that is what they call them. I don't even know the word for what you might call their nonsense.
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Free Speech

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post13 May 2015

You cannot call them "facts" or "knowledge" although, conceitedly, that is what they call them. I don't even know the word for what you might call their nonsense.

In Hindi, there is a word for that - kapat which means deceiving others by means of intellect, mind & twirling/twisting words to fool others in order to achieve one's evil motives. If Brahmakumaris come out with all their lies & accept all allegations made here, it will hinder their business. Where will they go? To hide one lie, they have spoken another millions lies.

When a person with somewhat developed intellect fools other person with relatively less developed intellect, it is called 'kapat' which is an intrinsic nature of all teacher of BKWSU including other Seniors.
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ex-l

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post13 May 2015

In other word, kapat makes your brain kaput. It's a German or Yiddish word meaning something that's broken or not functioning anymore.

I am glad there is common sense and real understanding within HInduism. When I became sucked into the Brahma Kumaris so called "Spiritual University", I really believed that we would be studying and learning all such things and esoteric practises as a real "University" might. I was even sucked in under the guise that somewhere, deeper in, such things happened within the BKWSU matrix. I was encouraged in this way.

It was true. What you see is what you get, it's all pretty much as the same stupefied level (don't think, don't question) except for all the attention to inventing new guiles and chasing new VIPs.

Recently the BKs have actually started to encourage followers to purse education because they have woken up not to the education or intellectually value, but the PR and publicity value of it. I've read their papers and they are appalling. Basically just knowingly recycled BK service in another guise and following the party line.

It's the same as with health. Many BKs used to have bad health. They were pasty, overweight, commonly suffered from hypertension, diabetes and heart disease (all diet, lifestyle and lack of exercise related).
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Free Speech

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Re: BK attitudes to Education / University

Post13 May 2015

Actually, people with 'kapat' brains are more active then others. Yes, you are right that it is perhaps broken in a way & thus, howsoever hard they try, the outcome is always a bad one, not at all helpful to others.

The simple common sense - why would God need to run a school or university or business/corporate or hold conferences? Does that not sound too materialistic? If it would be in the BKs' way, where is the line that demarcates worldly life and a spiritual system? It is nothing but nonsense going on in BKWSO as far as I see. Whenever a BK tell me, "Baba is coming & has directed to organise a conference in so n so organisation", I laugh out loud. All of these propagandas appear very senseless.
It's the same as with health. Many BKs used to have bad health.

A BK, whom I know personally, was getting fatter ever since he joined BKism and now other problems have also started. So, Didis have advised him to join gym as it would improve health. Now, what is this? If you are a Yoga teacher, how could you say that? When he is ill, they ask him to consult doctor. What is role of their RajYoga if it cannot help them on health related issues?

This could be another way of tricking BKs. After joining gym & working out, they may get in shape & using medicine (generally, BKs are told to take Ayurveidc Patanjali products of Baba Ramdev) they may get cured, then BK teachers would tell them - "Behold Sweet children of Baba how your diseases were taken by your beloved Baba & how he has made you healthy and hearty".

Proabably, this is how it can be as their RajYoga is not able to cure any disease of their Dadis (who are considered to have most powerful RajYoga with imaginary Baba) or other fat BK ladies.
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