Transparency

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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jann

friends or family of a BK

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Transparency

Post03 Jul 2013

Dear friends IT IS TIME!

Time to open up and let the world know WHO we are! There is nothing to be ashamed of, there is nothing to hide! If we keep hiding behind anonymity no will take it seriously, and we just keep on doing what we do without any progress. It is only by speaking up for real any cult can be seriously be exposed (Scientology is a good example).

The BKs will always use the fact that we are anonymous and not to be taken seriously. We are serious, right?

There is a battle going on with all kinds of new BK websites. Let's not waste our time! Transparency will only encourage others.
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ex-l

ex-BK

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Re: Transparency

Post03 Jul 2013

I'll pick up on this issue of anonymity/transparence as it has arisen (again) in another topic, here. Please read to the end because although I am largely dismissing the idea, or writing why not, I am willing to considering it.

Firstly, we need to consider the root of this accusation within the BKWSU and I can give you specific evidence of where it has arisen from and why. Here I am not saying that Vasanti Patel is the actual source of the question, but that she is typical of the inner circle of the BKWSU who sets thoughts for the rest of the cult to follow, "talking to someone who is anonymous. In most places any complaints made by anonymous people are ignored - they have no real value".

Now, firstly, she is very, very wrong. There are now laws to protect whistleblowers and protecting their anonymity is central to them. Many companies and organizations have "anonymous" complaint or suggest boxes where individuals can post their concerns without any fear of reprisals from abusive individuals. Ombudspersons (ombudsman services) will accept complaints/concerns and handled them anonymously for the individual in question. I could give many other examples.
    And, let's not fool ourselves nor allow the Brahma Kumaris to fool the world ... within the Brahma Kumari movement, there are nasty, imbalanced and abusive individuals that will pick on individuals or individual's families to get at them.
We have come to provide that defence for those individuals. From our point of view, what matters are the 'issues' ... not who said them, e.g. in my case, often people will approach ex-l with their experiences and information and ask that ex-l to post them. That is part of who ex-l is.

Secondly, you are being fool if you believe the Brahma Kumaris will respond in any other way *if* you were to post in your own name. They won't. All they are doing here is trying to find any weakness to exploit to discredit accurate revelations about their cult. It's just a distraction.

Would I post in my own name if I thought it would make the BKs change? Probably. Do I think they will change if I do? Not one bit. Consequently, I see no benefit to appeasing them and every benefit in individuals getting up their nose.

I also reject that we should in any way allow them to set the agenda, control and modify our behaviour here. Why on earth should we allow them to tell us how we should act? Do they listen to us?

We offer individuals the right to post anonymously because they are coming out of a very destructive and manipulative cult. They are often in a vulnerable state, unsure and insecure. I have no desire to turn them into targets for the Brahma Kumaris machine. For example, say someone was on the verge of exiting and posted here ... you can rest assured that within 24 hours they would have a special invitation to meet Dadi, be offered some treat or privileges. I know this to be true because they even tried it on me!

The BKs want to know who is who so they can work out ways of discrediting those individuals, think up accusations against them, use some dirt they know against them, pressurise them via their families and so on. To spread nasty gossip. I am sorry to say this but there are some real idiots in the BKWSU and, for all their claims of divinity, they love gossip ... (the rest of their life is so uninspiring and they lack intellectual satisfaction).

That is why they were even willing to spend probably thousands of dollars on lawyers to crack open our privacy here.

Thirdly, my defence of our privacy is that I still believe in the virtues of altruism and egoless. I have never sought thanks, credit or status for the work I have done and I don't want it. I am not a BK. I don't want to be a guru on the "world stage" and "worshipped" or have "servants". I am not so full of myself. I would prefer to be unnamed, unknown and invisible.

I don't believe "being spiritual" means it's OK to have a Mercedes like the BKs (who appear to have a Rolls Royce now)! It's a joke because the Murlis used to teach against "name and fame" ... well, what the hell are the BKs playing at!?! They teach that is OK to chase "name and fame" and big houses in the country ... but just to be detached from it.

OK, on the other hand ... what is the benefit to being "visible", and where? Answers please.

So three, four, five of us puts our face on the website ... what does it achieve? Honest question. My feeling is absolutely nothing ... except a load of BKs sneering, accusing or hating you.

Lastly, let me just repeat. This is just a discussion forum. That is all. When it started there was no intention (mens rea) "to be anonymous" (the act or 'actus reus'). Therefore there is no guilt. Actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea ... "an act does not make a person guilty unless their mind is also guilty".

It's just what everyone does when they join a discussion forum ... they uses a short nickname or handle. It's no big deal. The BKs use cover names for all their leaders. Try researching their real names!

If I am going to write a formal letter to some figure of authority then, of course, I will put my name on etc ... but if I am just having a chat with my friends, they are going to call me by my nickname, and why not? I've had many nicknames at different ages of my life.

Therefore to conclude. I am not against the idea but I would have to understand why and what benefit there would be. To take the discussion to a deeper level, what I would see *more* benefit in is establishing a form NGO to take responsibility of the website and act on its and the victims of the BKs behalf. That is what we were setting up when the BKs legally attacked us, and the problems they caused did delay it.
BK Vasanti Patel wrote:Om Shanti,

Agree with Simon, but also one other major things is to do with talking to someone who is anonymous. In most places any complaints made by anonymous people are ignored - they have no real value and so we want to make thing real and work with real people.

But even putting this aside, our next response, if there is going to be one, has to make it clear that we are not interested in anything else except a personal meeting. As we can see on the forum they are having masses of discussion about this. They want us to continue with emails if not forum - but we cannot play ball with that one I don’t think.

Anyway, just some thoughts from me.
IBY
BK Vasanti Patel - 7 August 2007

to: Jayanti Kirpalani, Simon Blandford <simon@bkinfo.net>, Alka Patel <Alka.Patel@uk.BKWSU.org>
cc: Miami Brahma Kumaris <Miami@us.BKWSU.org>, Maureen Goodman <Maureen.Goodman@uk.BKWSU.org>, Neville Hodgkinson <neville.hodgkinson@uk.BKWSU.org>, judyrodgers@gmail.com, Gayatri@us.BKWSU.org
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enlightened

ex-BK

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Re: Transparency

Post03 Jul 2013

ex-l wrote:I also reject that we should in any way allow them to set the agenda, control and modify our behaviour here. Why on earth should we allow them to tell us how we should act? Do they listen to us?

Thirdly, my defence of our privacy is that I still believe in the virtues of altruism and egoless. I have never sought thanks, credit or status for the work I have done and I don't want it. I am not a BK. I don't want to be a guru on the "world stage" and "worshipped" or have "servants". I am not so full of myself. I would prefer to be unnamed, unknown and invisible.

That is very humbling indeed, Ex-I.

I have to agree with you in that if we reveal our identity, it wont make any difference whatsoever to the Brahma Kumaris management, however, yes, I remember all those Brahma Kumaris and their interest in hot gossip ... very divine indeed and spiritual indeed!

They will certainly try and make your life hell if our identity is revealed ...

I also have to agree that many people on this website may be vulnerable as they are still trying to make sense of what the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University has done to them; and coming to terms with the damage it has done to them in almost every aspect of their lives; healing and empowering themselves all at the same time ... Many of ex-bks have very little or no emotional support to help them through the pain they are going through during this transition ... many of these ex-bks are left without any money to help them along their journey of recovery.

One day, when we have come through this transition period, then there will be nothing stopping us ... we will prove to ourselves that we can pull through this and make something of our lives. However, we don't need to reveal our identity in order to prove anything ... because we are genuine, honest and down to earth people.

We are the real people trying to remove the pseudo identity that was imposed on us ... trying to remove the masks that the Brahma Kumaris wear and made us wear.

I also remember how Dadi Janki used to humiliate many BKs in front of the whole Murli class by revealing their names and "so called weaknesses"; she also revealed things about us if we did not comply with the organisations rigid indoctrination, lifestyle and Shrimat

I feel that was total humiliation for those BKs who were humiliated in front of large public gatherings.

So the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University cannot complain about names being revealed on here when their own guru Dadi Janki does the same thing in front of large public gatherings.

Did anyone else experience this kind of humiliation by other members of the Brahma Kumaris? It would be interesting to know as this would be classed as intimidation, harassment and humiliation as well as violating human rights.

enlightened

Oliver

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Re: Transparency

Post04 Jul 2013

[quote="enlightened"][quote="ex-l"]I also reject that we should in any way allow them to set the agenda, control and modify our behaviour here. Why on earth should we allow them to tell us how we should act? Do they listen to us?



I agree with enlightened, that they the BKs will certainly try and make your life hell if our identity is revealed, and you can be certain you see, that they monitor what we write, why they do this is that they like to suppress and control us.

I remember that BKs are not even aware of humiliating or violating human rights, as all they will say its your karma. We as victims have a right to be anonymous.
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enlightened

ex-BK

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Re: Transparency

Post04 Jul 2013

jann wrote:Dear friends IT IS TIME! ... Time to open up and let the world know WHO we are! There is a battle going on with all kinds of new BK websites. Let's not waste our time! Transparency will only encourage others.

Dear Jann

Why are you suggesting it is time to open up and let the world know who we are? What makes you think that no one will take us seriously unless we reveal our identity?

raistlin

ex-BK

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Re: Transparency

Post04 Jul 2013

Jann, I must admit I had the idea to reveal my real identity to the public, but the next thought was to shut up and be quiet, as the anonymity is actually our power in my opinion. And our privacy and peace that many of us restored with such a difficulty are just priceless.

jann

friends or family of a BK

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Re: Transparency

Post04 Jul 2013

Yes, you are all right. Let's keep it as it is.
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ex-l

ex-BK

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Re: Transparency

Post05 Jul 2013

No need to back down so quick, Jann. I am taking your proposal seriously.

I think for newly exiting BKs anonymity is paramount and I appreciate that if one has been seriously abused it is far too much to expect to put your name to it on the internet for ever. Especially if one is trying to put it behind one.

That is where I think even the BKs would have to admit it is fair and correct.

I still think the BKs are using this accusation falsely as a way of ignoring the issues we raise. They're just looking to exaggerate something that is not an issue, as a weakness. Most of them know what we report goes on. The Brahma Kumari leaders know 100 times more and worse cases.

Personally, I've been deliberately exposed and targeted and I've lost a lot by their doing so. (If the BKs don't like who ex-l has become because of it, then they should kick those idiots' asses who did it).

What I lost because of being targeted is the ability to talk freely and openly about my issues with the few individuals who can understand them, and perhaps receive help with a little thoughtfulness, compassion and advice ... because now I know they have other idiots pouring over the forum looking for god knows what for the sake of the cult and I resent them for it.

Nothing the Brahma Kumari cult has done makes good for the damage and harm it has caused.

When I write letters to high profile individuals or organisations about the BKWSU's beliefs, I will often use my own name because it is the formal manner and I can trust most to respond in a professional manner. I could not trust the BKs to act in a professional manner.

I think to have a "board" or "trustees" etc to do so is a good thing, if they are going to carry out work like that. It would also be good to have an address and phone number so people could call us. We might catch more media request if we did.
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bindi

PBK

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Re: Transparency

Post31 Aug 2013

Whether you are known or not known, you are being take seriously and this forum is a testament to that fact, so I congratulate you all.

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