Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

Post26 Jul 2013

From: Cults: The Drug Analogy * (Lapsed means, "having ceased to be active in practice, membership, or belief").
Pink Panther wrote:From my experience, most ex-BKs don't leave, they simply drift away over time, and often maintain a kind of 'fond affection' for their time there, and even continue to consider God and spirituality in BK terms, i.e. they are not really ex-BK, more like "lapsed BK", like non-church going Christians who don't go to church because they are lazy or maybe they disagree with church policy or they feel unacknowledged, believing their own understanding of Christianity is superior to the official church (usually over some fine point of nonsense) ... or they dislike other parishioners ... etc

Even if someone does not attend the centre anymore, or even doesn't read Murlis or sit to meditate, if they still arrange all other aspects of their lives according to BK paradigms, e.g. thinking in terms of soul consciousness versus body consciousness, or (BK) Karma philosophy, or keep remembering Baba when situations arise, or think of God as Shiva -point of light, or are awaiting Destruction, or they interpret whatever they experience in Gyan terms.

Essentially, such people are still "addicted" in my view - although it may be more benignly said that they are "scarred" or "damaged". (Some are more than damaged however, they are permanently broken mentally and emotionally, like someone I know).

Not so strangely, I think biggest problems we have had is with lapsed BKs. Individuals who have stopped going to the center but are still holding onto some aspects of BK.

Perhaps it makes their otherwise normal life feel more special?

You mentioned something else connected earlier, how for many BK is becoming their first contact point with spiritual ideas and, hence, becomes their first love affair with the god concept or religion. I suspect then to question or challenge their "first love" is highly challenging for them for purely emotional reasons. I suspect the BKs also know ... the first cut is the deepest.

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Pink Panther

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Re: Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

Post26 Jul 2013

To be honest for myself, I was "lapsing" - attending less and less regularly - was not happy with the BK culture that had developed but still considered myself BK (though I was never enamoured of being "labelled").

I began to explore various new paths of investigation - or rather - I took up where I'd left off when I'd become a BK. These investigations revealed for me, not just rationally but in a number of ways , the psycho-emotional dynamics by which I had let myself get drawn in to the point of it taking over my life for so many years.

So, the lapsing created "space" (time) in which I could analyse (break down and examine) what I'd been through, reflect, and synthesise (bring together from constituent parts) a new whole, a new paradigm.

Many others I knew, long term BKs, were also lapsed or lapsing at this time. Many however, have never made it all the way out. Like Lot's wife they looked back, and even today they seem stopped in no-man's land, in a half way limbo, petrified.

Some "pillars of salt' appear more "vital" than others. They seem to have managed the art of compartmentalising themselves. They are comfortable when amongst BKs, even enjoying being considered respectable "senior" (by years) BKs. When they are with other (nonBK but spiritual) like-minded people, they're "alternative", cool, fringe, New Age ecumenical types, for whom BKism is first among equals (religion-wise).

Or, when among their real peers, other less-than-pukka BKs, they're ready enough to gossip or disparage the superficial shortcomings of BKs & BKism, but they seem to consciously avoid grappling with the philosophical contradictions or implications of what they are doing or believing.
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Mr Green

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Re: Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

Post26 Jul 2013

I am ex for sure, I was almost forced into it! But it tortured me to drop my belief!

I had a dream with Janki in the other night! Maybe I'll be back in soon!
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ex-l

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Re: Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

Post26 Jul 2013

Pink Panther wrote:Many others I knew, long term BKs, were also lapsed or lapsing at this time. Many however, have never made it all the way out. Like Lot's wife they looked back, and even today they seem stopped in no-man's land, in a half way limbo, petrified.

Considering our other discussion about cults, addiction and brain reformation ...

For me, even though I clearly "left" physically, it took many, many years before I escaped internally. Even though I stopped going to the center and, logically, I could certainly not believe in all their ridiculous bollocks about 5000 Year Cycles, making babies by the power of the mind, and being 108 Kings and Queen of the Golden Age etc ... or especially that "Shiva Baba" could possibly be god ... there was a large part of my core being that was hook or reformed around BK culture or "being a BK".

I was certainly hooked far beyond a conscious level and even my own desire or control. BKs might see this as evidence it was "the truth", I see it as evidence of how influence the sub-conscious effects of all the thought reform, enculting or brainwashing is.
(No, no ... it's all true ... the I *REALLY* am going to become one of the 108 now because the mighty *I* have discovered the *REAL* truth of the BKWSU!!! :shock: - joke! ).

Obviously, for me at that time, I was somewhat trapped by Destruction which their god said in the Murlis was going to happen in 1986, or 1986 to 1996. I suppose I was religiously covering my bases "just in case" or "what if" it was all or partly true ... hooked by deeper superstitious beliefs in karma etc.

I had no idea about all the false predictions of Destruction in WWII, 1950, 1976 before them ... nor that the BKWSU leaders were re-writing the Murlis to keep us all hooked to the degree they were. Therefore even discovering about the degree of the hidden history revision 30 years later was a further liberation. Real validation of their true nature and level of consciousness. "The truth will set you free" is a great truisms ... no wonder the BKWSUs go to such extents to keep it buried. New BKs are still told nothing about those now but when they do start to look and question, it will be a lot easier for them to find the truth. We did not have the internet to help us back then.

"Lot's Wife" is a good analogy for exiting a cult ... the symbolism may not be perfect or clear but it is very close. I am not sure entirely about the benefits of "Looking back in anger" (listen below) but I certainly think 'looking back in contempt and disrespect' is a good practise ... really seeing them for what they are.

Obviously, it's a also bit of a pain in the ass having invested time and energy into all those friendships/relationships with BKs and then having *nothing* else after you leave. I can understand how many stay "in" just because of the them ... if you become involved when you are young and still forming social networks, or follow what they say and cut everyone off, what are you left with when you leave? Regrets ...
Two angels arrived in the corrupt city of Sodom and were invited to spend the night at the good man Lot's home.

As dawn was breaking, the angels urged him to get his family and flee, so as to avoid being caught in the impending disaster the city was about to suffer. Lot delayed, so the angels took hold of his hand, his wife's hand and his daughters and led them out of the city.

The command was given, "Flee for your life! Do not look behind you, nor stop anywhere in the Plain; flee to the hills, lest you be swept away." Traveling behind her husband, Lot's wife looked back, and turned into a pillar of salt. The idea being that by looking back at the "evil cities" she betrayed a secret longing for that way of life and was deemed unworthy to be saved.

How to free yourself from those seemingly uncontrollable recurring thoughts and patterns?

Personally, I spent a lot of time on my own reforming my mind by sleeping it out ... a sort of self-hypnosis to stop those thoughts and "blank the tape", e.g. if it all gets too much, and you can afford to do so, go home, lie down and put a pillow over your head to blank all the noises out, watch the thoughts arise but just refuse them, focus on your breathing and relaxing your body.

I suspect giving the brain more time to re-process it all in dreams etc might be useful ... and that there might also be more healthy, productive ways to do it ... but I could afford any therapy at that time.

From time to time I mourned and lamented the loss of the person I was before the BKs and could have been ... and all the time I wasted dancing around as one of their impotent and idiotic courtiers ... (even thought I was a lot less impotent and idiotic and less courteous than most BKs!). But as the years go on, the memories fade and the futility of doing so diminishes. It's best to replace those feelings with new and better memories.

The worst times were of being what I can only described as "mugged" by the memories and impressions of some of the incredibly embarrassing things I did in the name of their god! Thankfully, I was a pretty honest and straightforward BK, was never involved in all the money reaping business, and never entirely lost my own sense of values, so I don't have that much to regret ... but I'd hate to be one of the scheming insane leaders when their day of reckoning comes.

dany

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Re: Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

Post26 Jul 2013

Breaking loose from a cult or addiction takes more than a strong will and determination ...

I came across a study published by a regional prison . The percentage of returning prisoners after serving their terms and freed was quite alarming . Upon investigation, it was discovered that the same group of returning prisoners intentionally committ minor law offences, in order to retun to the prison.

Despite rehabilitation, they feel that they do not belong to the outside world and its people, having spent many years in an enclosed cocoon type environment.
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ex-l

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Re: Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

Post27 Jul 2013

The person who gave me the first clues to start my work investigating BK corruption was a lapsing (in and out) BK.

When he was out of the BKWSU, he slipped back into drug use and emotional crises. He thought he could not control himself. Hanging around the BKs stopped him ... I suppose partly out of group shame (he could not turn up wasted) and partly by offering him some "clean" company.

But when it came down to it, his first loyalty was to the Brahma Kumaris. He held back information and stabbed me in the back, despite my having been a friend to him. Again, very similar to what I would expect of having a drug addict as an acquaintance ... feeding and protecting the addiction comes first. Everyone else becomes dispensable.

Despite knowing far more than me, and clearly not believing in the BK big picture, he would go and help the BKs, but not help here.

I made a big mistake trying to help him.

It made me think only to try and help those who clearly want out because, unless they do, they will always put the BKs first, and even attack back if they are not ready.

Like the AA or Al-Anon ... the first step is sobriety.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

Post27 Jul 2013

dany wrote:The percentage of returning prisoners after serving their terms and freed was quite alarming . Upon investigation, it was discovered that the same group of returning prisoners intentionally committ minor law offences, in order to retun to the prison. Despite rehabilitation, they feel that they do not belong to the outside world and its people, having spent many years in an enclosed cocoon type environment.

Recent surveys here show the same and the most recent one, announced this week, focused on the mental health aspect. Many said they felt they were at their best inside, they could not cope as well outside. The survey showed that repeat offenders ranked their times in prison as the times they felt most content, able to relate to people with whom they had things in common, had regular contact with, least stressed and least troubled. Mental health services are provided free there and the structures & rules of prison help them feel secure. Outside they had trouble relating, were often lonely, poor, felt inferior and less worthy etc.

The researchers were using the findings to argue the need for providing low cost mental health and other support services in society generally, that this saved more money than it cost to keep prisoners, and that the high rate of recidivism amongst such prisoners proved the need for such services.

I agree with what Dany and ex-l are saying. It may be a choice between feeling alienated or belonging, or between being in familiar environment where imposed order & hierarchies of authority let's you know where you stand versus being 'outside' where life is far more complicated, competitive and where self-reliance is required, or even where one's very mental state is the barometer.

Maybe those who are regularly relapsing are like prisoners who are allowed (or allow themselves) to go on day release 'outside', they're able to go and do things which those stuck inside cannot, but they are still secure about where they will sleep and get their meals from, have long term relationships, have seniority etc.
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ex-l

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Re: Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

Post27 Jul 2013

Pink Panther wrote:The researchers were using the findings to argue the need for providing low cost mental health and other support services in society generally, that this saved more money than it cost to keep prisoners

Yes, this is basically what the Brahma Kumaris leaders are doing *at best* ... providing low cost "care in the community" - under the guise of a sort of lightweight Hindu liberation theology for individuals who are clearly a little challenged or broken. Or good individuals who are experiencing a challenging period or have been damaged.

But is it genuinely healing and developing ... or is it a prison inside which they exploit the prisoners as low or no paid servants (slaves)?

I think to look at the BKWSU / PBKIVV as a prison service might be a good model to start understanding it. A prison in which the bars and keys are mental rather than physical.

The Brahma Kumari World Spiritual Penitentiary ... the Prison of the Brahma Kumaris Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalaya (PBKIVV).

I fully support the idea of ashram systems. I think the idea of ashrams is wonderful ... safe places where people can go to retreat from their families or society, to work out their issues and heal. I think for a long time I defended the cultic nuttiness of BKism as that. That is to say, that all the beliefs are immaterial and not the point ... they are just an efficient mental device to hold and entrap ... and "being a BK" is just a facade, a ready made mask, which individuals can hide behind whilst making breaking personal relationships and making personal changes that they think or feel necessary.

Their BK identity is not their real identity, nor is the BK "carrot" ... the illusion of a perfect deity self. (In short, the history and philosophy of the BKs is a fairy story and just as I think the BKs vision of their heaven on earth is of a very practical heaven on earth they have now, their vision of their deity selves and deity courts are the best they can become in the here and now).

In theory ... gurus and ashram have exercises that are beneficial for challenged or damaged individuals. Different gurus and different exercises for different individuals and different conditions a key device of which appears to be the illusion that they are special and unique and their treatment is special and unique.

However, fat flocks attract hungry wolves as sure as unsecured wealth attract thieves.

I used to for a long time but no longer believe that the BKWSU is a good and safe place. It's not. It's lost its way. *If* there ever was a shepherd he has long been replaced at the top by wolves or thieves.

* (Work in progress: ideas which need further development).

dany

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Re: Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

Post27 Jul 2013

pink panther wrote:It may be a choice between feeling alienated or belonging.

Exactly, sense of belonging is what keeps cultists longing to go back to their cult centers, and be surrounded with undestanding and supporting friends.

Similarly, certain freed prisoners would commit offences in purpose, just to be back to where they feel they belong, even behind bars .

ckivell

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Re: Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

Post10 Aug 2013

I think you are all exaggerating.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Are you an ex-BK or a lapsed BK?

Post11 Aug 2013

ckivell wrote:I think you are all exaggerating.

And with that statement, without any explanation of your gross generalisation, you're not?

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