A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post28 Jul 2013


Mr. Vicente Fox and Mr. Bush jr


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A letter to the President 2 [President Fox]

Post28 Jul 2013

Admin wrote:From: A letter to the President

A letter to the President 2

About politics :

This post is about politics so if you don't like that, I advise you not to read it.

Thank you ex-l for your answer. I admire the song. Pink is a great artist. This song remembers me of a simular one I listened to when I was a child. It is about the same question how a president can sleep quietly at night, doing what he does.

You're right about the remark what kind of mentality is in it. I posted the letter as an example of how far people can go to advertise their beliefs and for those that are still in or exiting the BK an eye-opener.

I am a bit surprised that still these kind of letters are send to high officials etc. The BK teacher in our center said these tactics were common in the 1970s and 1980s but were abandonned because it proved to be ineffective and gave outsiders a weird impression about the organisation.

But what is weird ? And what is normal? I agree on ex-l's last remark. High officials etc probably receive thousands of these kind of "fanmail" and it leaves them unmoved. What came to my mind is that of course there are "weird" people running around in this world.

However, if you consider Shiv Baba as the Supreme Soul and our Father, as this soul advertises itself, why does it uses foul language and wicked idea's to promote his ideology. Why does this soul uses the power that it regretfully and undeniably has over people to delude them and sort of brainwash them ? This letter is not but could just as well have been written by Shiv Baba itself ...

What kind of so called "Father" would feed it's children these kind of sick idea's. No wonder you get distorted, society-hostile individuals. And we all know that children in the BK also get victimized by the doctrine ...

Mr. Vicente Fox :

Mr. Vicete Fox is another story, weird but I got to hear a part of it. One day there was a discussion about the results of the organisation as far as growing in numbers. Then they came up with Mr. Fox (what about nomen is omen). Anyway, the teacher told me about an Oxford programme. It was set up by a professor who had travelled Latin America and Asia to find answers for reoccurring and similar theological and or cutural phenomena or something like that.

However, during his travel this professor had come across the BKs in India (probably the headquaters) and had been enculted. He then set up a programme in Oxford (not the SML-training (*1)). Brief BK teaching was one of the subjects being talked about, but not the only one. No meditating was involved but, of course, one could follow a real course later on ... It was packed in an official subject of the study program any Oxford student could choose for.

Later on (probably) Mr. Bacon had joined them, they talked about a very billiant student in both ways.

This professor had met Vicente Fox at an airport briefly a few years before, when he was still working in the Coca Cola company and wanted to increase his efficiency. He encouredged him to come to Oxford to do some study. In Oxford, the professor approached Mr. Fox and started talking about BK-ism. Got him to become an adherent. It turned out that Vincente Fox wanted to become president of Mexico. And, of course, the professor wanted to promote BK-ism. So probably an unspoken deal came out of it.

The second time Mr Fox met this professor, the professor had convinced Mr. Fox to promote BK-ism in Mexico and Mr. Fox wanted to turn Mexico into a BK-state, his "Foxilandia". That's why they set up this huge program later on ... which I think is false because you cannot mingle with people's free choice. I questioned them about this step and said that, in my view, people needed to be informed about in what they were being trained and what BK-ism finally is.

The teacher said that as long as there was no meditating involved, people were not automatically being part of the BK. But if you read the astrix(*2) at the end of this post you see they were being enculted later on in a following course ... According to the BK teacher, however, the employees and high officials still were not adherents in strict sense. It would all start when they first meditated, that would "ignite" them ... And then they would still have the choice to go on with it or leave it for what it was.

The strange thing is that (Mr. Fox wanted that) all the officials had to be taught simultaneously, as in one stroke. (Was that to minimize opposition and critics ??)

As I was in with the BK, I met this professor. He had brought along one of his favorite students. The student wanted to follow a few subjects abroad and the professor had chosen to join him. Both were BK-adherents. Of course, they were visiting BK-centers as well. That's when our teacher told me that the professor was quite effective in aproaching people and making connections, networking.

As we started talking he told me that he and Mr. Fox, and probably also Mr. Bacon that ex-l mentioned, wanted to "do" the same thing for the US. I told them that no way one could get close to the president of the US. That a person of that rank and position is shielded off from the world. But this professor told me he already had met Mr. Bush senoir when he was still in the oil business and that he also knew his son. He told me this son had ambitions to become president as well and they were targeting him.

As Mr. Fox in the future would be close to Mr. Bush jr., they could "do" the same thing for the US as Mr. Fox was planning to do for Mexico. Then they were hoping (conspiring) to do the endgame. I opposed but they said Destruction had to be. Mr. Bush and "the American connection" were just a way of getting the job done ... It was then for the first time I came to see the more sinister side of the movement but my perception was blurred by the meditation and the probability of events in the future that, according to me, were unlikely to take place. It seemed all highly hypothetical they said ...

The teacher said that maybe this was the way to get the end-job finally done, after so many failures, since the 1950s and 60s. When I asked what the teacher meant by this sentence she said that the BK had been trying to work towards Destruction since that time. So far in vain.

I replied that I thought "transformation" was a self-generated proces. The teacher then said it wasn't and that the BK actually had to destroy the world. The old world wouldn't go all by itself. She showed me her sinister traits when I opposed. I was so perplexed. All I could say is that I did not like the concept. It still gives me shivers if I think back to it ...

The teacher said that maybe this time their efforts would lead to Destruction after so many failed predictions by Shiv Baba, who each time gave them a new opportunity to do so ... And that it was because the adherents did not work hard enough that Destruction hadn't come about so far.

I replied that it was not sure that either Mr. Fox or Mr. Bush, Jr would become president but they reminded me of The Cycle. The BK teacher said it had all happened before. The BK teacher respected the professor a lot because he had himself found Madhuban. According to them, he had found evidence that The Cycle was true. (I doubted that, even at the time).

A difficult part :

The teacher told me the professor had already "concluded The Cycle himself". She said he knew about all the events that would happen and had put them in order. He had then sort of travelled back to do other things. I asked the teacher why he did not stay in Madhuban and spent the rest of his life there. She replied that here was nothing to learn there for him anymore. He already knew everything. He had already encountered all the difficulties the soul comes across on its way to the (BK)-God.

I am sorry to tell that up till today I still don't know what exactly they meant by all these enigmatic words. To me, at the time, it seemed as if he or they knew about the future, or future events and tried to influence them to a negative, destructive outcome. It was and still is one step too far for me to take. I only know that it did not seem right to me the way they carried on and that I felt objected by it from the heart.

The fact is, according to them, that Mr. Fox wanted to become president and had made a personal deal with Shiv Baba. They told me about this. And that they had asked Shiv Baba in person, when he was in Madhuban, if Mr. Fox would become president of Mexico and that Shiv Baba said that it would be so. Confirmed it. Unfortunately, I cannot tell if this meeting actually happened because I wasn't around at Madhuban to check it at the time. In fact, according to them, very few people were there witnessing it and they made it to be that way.

The professor told, Mr. Fox had even himself been once to Madhuban to confirm his deal with Shiv Baba face to face and had received assertion of his roleplaying. This was because the professor had insisted on Mr. Fox that he would at least meet Shiv Baba once, face to face, after he had made the deal with Shiv in private.

However, Mr. Fox did not want to spend too much time in Madhuban, did not wanted to go through the whole seasonal program and surely did not want to be publicly recognized there (because of his remarkable tall appearance) so, according to the professor, they sort of "let him in through the backdoor" so that he could meet Shiv Baba quietly alone. He also did not want to go to Madhuban when he was close to, or running for, his desired presidency, so he visited the place in the early years of his acquaintance with BK-ism.

I discussed with them the reason why Mr. Fox wanted to become president in the first place. The teacher told me it was Mr. Fox' personal wish/deal and that a child of Baba could become anything he or she wanted. I objected to it and argued that the world would probably be better off if Mr. Fox. served humanity in a different way instead of becoming a worldly ruler. "Why not become a true spiritual man?", I asked. They objected and were very pleased with Mr. Fox' halfway transformation. The teacher said to me, "If he wants to do so, let him be; he serves us well."

Now again, I know that this sounds very unbelievable. When we discussed it, it was spring 1991. Mr. Fox was elected president in 2000 and Mr. Bush jr was elected president in 2001.

To continue :

However, "they couldn't get close enough to Bush jr". I don't know exactly what they meant by that. But "something" seemed not to work. There were too many people around him, standing in the way. His drinking seemed to be a problem too. They said this was maybe the reason why he was not susceptible for the doctrine. The professor made a remark that he wondered if Mr. Bush jr would make it to the presidential elections anyway. Not only if he would get this far for running presidential candidate, but also if he would survive his drinking habit all together.

They were telling about another way to get to Mr Bush via Asia. I remember Malaysia being mentioned. I asked them what on earth Malaysia had to do with it? The teacher than replied they were a very powerful organisation, spread over the whole world, and that they had adherents everywhere, in every country. It puzzled me, but I think they were trying to impress me. BK-ism is not spread over the whole world right now. It surely wasn't back then. (I checked that when I was asking about centers in another part of the world and there weren't in this country).

The professor then declared that this Malaysian student, their "contact person", was a son of a high official, something like a consul or ambassador. I don't exacly remember that though.

Funnily, shortly afterwards, BK adherents from Malaysia and Indonesia blew their silent diplomacy by writing similar letters as the one listed above to Mr. Bush senoir. The professor was highly irritated because the person in Malaysia who wrote first was a very respected and calm person. The professor had told this student in Malaysia about his plans and asked if he would cooperate but when it took too long, or at first glance did not seem to work out, this Malaysian student at the time had reacted in this way. The professor had not expected this person to act so extreme.

Personally, I think it was a good advertisement for a bizarre cult ...

They told me Mr. Fox was even financially supported (by his friends). I guess that was not for him to make it able to enrich himself later on during his presidency by enlarging his ranch (for which he was criticized officially --- besides is not it strange that a BK supporter believing in the end of times builds his own "mansion" ...). Later on, it became a political scandal that Mr. Fox took money from foreign financers (The so called "Amigos de Fox" or "Friends of Mr. Fox-Fund") (*3).

In Mexico, it is forbidden to accept money from foreigners during a presidential campaign. This was said by the professor. But it wasn't forbidden to accept money from friends and so this elaborative construction was set up. It was made un-transparent on purpose. The professor was quite triumphantly about it. It wouldn't surprise me if the BK was directly financing part of Mr. Fox' campaign ... The professor at least made a double remark about that. Told "they" were directly involved.

The BK teacher than raised the question who those friends of Mr. Fox were because they could be anyone and have any kind of intention. The professor responded softly, "The Brahma Kumaris". This was one of the matters discussed at the time.

The professor declared that the construction of the 'Amigos de Fox'-fund wouldn't be too difficult because he also knew a close friend of Mr. Fox, also working at the Coca Cola company. This man had already shown his interest in BK-ism when he told him about it. The professor would make his effort to get him at least more interested and, if not so, sympathetic to BK-ism. The professor was quite confident that it would work, maybe with the extra additional help of Mr. Fox.

To me, it felt like dishonesty to use the money collected from adherents (as they then explained to me for the first time), to organize trainings later on for government employees who were unaware of the BK teachings and intentions (let alone to finance his campaign directly ...), but the teacher answered that, to her, it was a correct way of using the money. It would win new adherents. There was no better purpose ...

At the time, I discussed with them that a person running for president would have to be married in order to be public acceptable/feasible. They told me that, in fact, Mr. Fox was. A few years before becoming president, Mr. Fox divorced and re-married.

I guess the BK and Shiv Baba pardoned him for being twice married because of the "great" work he did afterwards. And maybe he was "only" a BK supporter and not a strict adherent. It was said that Mr. Fox did not wanted to abandon his Roman Catholic belief, so his spirituals were mixed. Anyway, he was taking the best of both worlds ... at the expensive of his own people.

That's the story I came across. They rest is history. Mr. Fox became president of Mexico and Mr. Bush jr. became president of the US and they became friends. Mr. Fox did his job, Mr. Bush (probably) remaining untouched by BK-ism, did not.

According to them however his "being untouched" was relatively and a matter of time. They said that Mr. Bush jr. was influenced at sanskara-level and that these sanskaras would led him to become and play a role in favour of the BKWSO in his next incarnation.

To conclude :

Of course there are many more factors playing a role in this complex process. But it shows how the BK is targetting for high officials or worldly renowned or famous persons. How they even surpass the rules of common moral behaviour in many, many ways.

I think it also shows what a creepy organisation the BK is, up till the very top, with (probably) Shiv Baba included.


Additional information :


For more insight in the SML program see : http://www.brahmakumaris.com/courses/122.html

As you can see it promotes BK-ism. But at first glance one wouldn't say so.

(*2)This comes from Wikipedia, topic BKWSO
Concluding that "doctrinal assertions are socially divisive and thus counterproductive to their primary goal" the Brahma Kumaris have starting building coalitions and leading conglomerated networks of cooperation. One such example, with the support of Vicente Fox, was carried out under the guise of a commercial enterprise introducing Brahma Kumari teachings and practises to the Government of Mexico through the "Self Management Leadership" course which grew out of Brahma Kumaris beliefs and is the backbone of Brahma Kumaris management philosophy. 90 trained facilitators ran programs through which 25,000 people at the top level of government have passed.

As additional information Wikipedia said :
Musselwhite, Richard (Sep 2009). "Possessing knowledge : organizational boundaries among the Brahma Kumaris". University of North Carolina : pages 141, 163–164, 174. " "The problem was that up until that time, my relationship with him had been through the Brahma Kumaris ; but now he was President, and he wanted to use ... not only Self Management Leadership, but the whole strategic focusing thing and his party was the center-right, Catholic party. They're sufficiently fundamentalist for them to have a fit about Brahma Kumaris" "So we went there, but it had to be done within the context of a commercial enterprise. So, we set up a branch of a consulting company there. But the fact of the matter is, most of his senior people have...been to Oxford for the Brahma Kumaris program. Many have been here to Madhuban.... So the Brahma Kumaris have had a huge influence in the reform process there [in Mexico]... We have trained 90 facilitators from the government who are running these programs, 25,000 people, all the top level of government throughout the entire country have been through the course.", " a management training program called Self Management Leadership, which has become the backbone of Brahma Kumaris management philosophy""


Additional information of Amigos de Fox-fund from Wikipedia
Amigos de Fox ("Friends of Fox") was a non-profit fund-raising group established by Denise Montaño that was instrumental in getting Vicente Fox elected President of Mexico. The phrase was also used as a campaign slogan referring to the millions of people supporting Fox in the 2000 presidential elections.

In 2003, money-laundering charges were lodged against the fund-raising group, but were dropped shortly before the July 2003 mid-term elections.

Amigos de Fox, created in 1999 by the late José Luis González González (a.k.a. "El Bigotón", Spanish: "Big-mustached"), a businessman friend of Fox, and former employee of Coca-Cola-Mexico, like Fox.

After the election and during the government of Vicete Fox (2000–2006) different groups have expressed concern on the management of the funds that the organization gathered. Lino Korrodi, financial manager, and Carlota Robinson were accused of triangulation of funds to the organization. After a citizen requested the Specialized Attorney for the Attention of Electoral Crimes (FEPADE) of the office of the Attorney General (PGR) this was denied. The PGR declare it would reserve the information for 12 years because releasing it would jeopardize the life, security and health of the people involved with the organization.


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Re: A letter to the President

Post28 Jul 2013

A letter to the President 3

Concerning the information under asterix (*2)
Concluding that "doctrinal assertions are ... at the top level of government have passed.

and :
as additional information wikipedia said : ... "the backbone of Brahma Kumaris management philosophy"


From the Wikipedia, and as quoted in the former post, I would like to say a few things.

At the time, when it was discussed, the professor spoke of a logistical problem. It was a problem how to get a SML-training and subsequent training to be done in Mexico. There were a few problems.
    1. How to get enough trainers to give the course to 25,000 people, as mentioned above, in one stroke.

    The professor told me they couldn't get enough BK-sisters to do the job because if they did so, then the centers where those Sisters worked would have to be left neglected for some time. However, the political party of Vincente Fox was closely related to the roman Catholic faith. So that's why priests were chosen to carry out the BK-religion after firstly being taught briefly about it by (high) Maduban Sisters.

    At least that was the plan at the time (Spring 1991).

    2. The professor told us that mexican officials probably wouldn't allow another belief, certainly not a millenary BK-belief, to be introduced to them and accepted by them. According to him, this is also because the Roman Catholic religion is still deeply anchored in Mexican society.

    To avoid this problem the BK-course was packed in a business training, the SML.

    I think it was probaby given by Mexicans, (maybe) priest-facilitators.

    3. A lot of suspicion would arise if a foreign company would give the SML training to Mexican officials.

    To avoid this problem the company training for the officials would be set up in Mexico itself to promote identification and would be branded as "Mexican"-styled.

    Strict secrecy would be needed.


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Re: A letter to the President

Post28 Jul 2013

A letter to the president 4

From wikipedia again quoted (as part of listed under asterix (*2)):
So, we set up a branch of a consulting company there. But the fact of the matter is, most of his senior people have...been to Oxford for the Brahma Kumaris program. Many have been here to Madhuban.... So the Brahma Kumaris have had a huge influence in the reform process there [in Mexico]...

At the time the professor told us that Mr. Vincente Fox, probably after being influenced by BK-ism, had encouraged quite a few of his friends to go to Oxford firstly and do the SML course there and, subsequently (and immediately after that), to even make the trip to Madhuban.

His basis in Mexico and his connection with BK-ism was multi-layered and quite strong and all these friends were very loyal to him, the professor explained.

Many of them were influential and wealthy too.


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Re: A letter to the President

Post28 Jul 2013

A letter to the President 5

As listed partially under asterix (*3):
"After the election and during the government of Vicente Fox (2000–2006) different groups have expressed concern on the management of the funds that the organization gathered. Lino Korrodi, financial manager, and Carlota Robinson were accused of triangulation of funds to the organization. After a citizen requested the Specialized Attorney for the Attention of Electoral Crimes (FEPADE) of the office of the Attorney General (PGR) this was denied.

The PGR declare it would reserve the information for 12 years because releasing it would jeopardize the life, security and health of the people involved with the organization."

I am not suggesting here that the threat to PGR comes directly from the BKWSO solely, there may be other factors involved as well, nor the threat may not be BKWSO-related.

However, according to the information I got at the time, the BKWSO was involved with and had a clear and good relation with Mr. Fox.
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post28 Jul 2013

This is by far one of the most bizarre yet sinister reports of the activities of the Brahma Kumaris I have read so far but yet not only is it believable, I suspect it is only a fraction of the weirdness that goes on ... and that in India it must be 10 times worst.

We're way on the outside looking in ... even most BKs don't get to know about all this.

Can or will you name the "professor"?

This is the most absolutely twisted thing about the BKs ... I seen more than one of their "corporate coach" type BK boast they have "served" Coke, and here we have the head Coke honcho of Latin America (and the coke-head honcho from United States of America :D ) ... yet 30 seconds searching about Coca Cola's corruption and exploitation bring us 100s of hits;
... and the Brahma Kumaris are all over them too!?! And, no, it's not sattvic either. It's evil tooth and gut rot, a serving of diabetes in a tin can.

George W. Bush? ... Now, apart from all the usual right wing, oil industry, super elite, world domination stuff ... did they read *anything* about the guy's past!?!

(Talking of which, J.J. Cale just died, see Bush link above).
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post29 Jul 2013

A very important report there Misty, worth reading.

My first response to this report from Misty was to do a quick search for - Vicente Fox Brahma Kumaris Abu - and found some links but nothing to show he'd been to Mt Abu himself. Has he really? ... Or just Oxford?

The SLM thing with BBacon appears in Wikipedia as shown and also the paper by Richard Musselwhite; here, which includes this program (search within it for "Fox" or go to page 153).

But my instinctive response is to see it all as BKs big-ticketing themselves. Yes, they got 'in the door" and did their thing, so what? As most people who have ever worked in the corporate world know, they go through fashions and phases and have all kinds of "positive thinking/ethical ruthlessness" types come through to give their spiel.

Any lessons learnt through such workshops and events fade away and are replaced by the 'next big thing" which also fades, the inertia and culture of such large bureaucracies are not easy to affect. And remember Bacon's contribution to Gyan was to bring corporate-speak & corporate-think to BKism, so he is only giving back what they probably would have got elsewhere. (I sat through some of his workshops in Madhuban and elsewhere - it was predictable stuff. As someone said recently, "managers are those people who need to interrupt real work to keep their own jobs" :shock:.

It's all hype, and hype makes their world (BKs and corporates and politicos) go round; name dropping, mutual backscratching; exaggerating successes and associations, playing down failures and undesirable relationships ...

The BK Sister's scenario about inspiring Fox to inspire Destruction via Bush, besides being superseded by events (once again showing how BKs love to build up self-serving scenarios to bolster their own agendas - and change them when they fail to eventuate), it is also superfluous because Bush was already that way inclined, surrounded as he was by fundamentalist Christian lobbyists who believe the re-establishment of Israel in 1948 is a sign of the End of Times and were already fitting Middel East wars into their 'Armageddon" scenarios.

The reason BKs would never have got close to Bush is that such right-wing Christians would never deal with the devil, i.e. any other religion (see associated thread about Yoga in U.S.schools).

And finally - what of this 'professor"?
She replied that here was nothing to learn [by staying in Mt Abu] for him anymore. He already knew everything.

Oh yes? And someone who knows everything wants the world to know it I assume, he wants his place in history at the right hand of God.

Catholicism will keep Mexico safe from the BKs. They are very wary of false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing (white wool shawls!) attacking their flock.

Although wolves do sometimes pick off strays at the edges of large flock, and what are the BKs if not fringe dwellers & strays from the mainstream. I have faith in the collective intelligence/stupidity of the masses. Both qualities keep them safe as they huddle toward the middle for safety.

Yes, let's find out more about this arrogant professor, "who would hurt all mankind just to save his own"- (Curtis Mayfield's "People Get Ready").
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post29 Jul 2013

Pink Panther wrote:The BK Sister's scenario about inspiring Fox to inspire Destruction via Bush, besides being superseded by events (once again showing how BKs love to build up self-serving scenarios to bolster their own agendas - and change them when they fail to eventuate)

I pick up on this ... I noticed a tendency of BK Sisters, even very senior Sisters, to become quite excited ... even infatuated ... with their VIP conquests especially if and where they validated BK beliefs.

Partly, I suspect one could argue it was because it exaggerated their own sense of importance (especially in front of their followers) and gave meaningfulness to all their work. BK life became hellishly boring and repetive and any VIP connection resulted in a flurry of excitement and seriousness ... it was "proof" that all the nonsense was real.

It was amazing how much they wound invest into the hunt ... and, at that time, I had no idea to question how much money and resources they were investing into it. A single picture with the Pope was worth flying Jayanti and Janki off to Rome to stand in a crowd just to pass a BK picture to him. The same pattern of activity was replicated all the way down the centre hierarch to increasingly less and less important individuals.

(For the VIPs, they were probably just another faceless or eccentric bunch to be "glad-handed" for a photo op ... or often run away from!!! I remember the story of them chasing after Bob Geldof calling out to him that "... he could become an instrument of god too!!!" ).

Partly, I wonder how much of this is Sindi social climbing sanskars ... and how much of it is aroused by the Sisters not being allow to have normal relationships, e.g. explaining their infatuation with power men like "Mr President"?

I don't know how things have changed in the past decade. Surely, although it all must be trilling for new BKs and junior center-in-charge, the leaders must be over it? In many of the videos or photos, they look as bored to tears as conveyor belt workers ... "another day, another IP or VIP".

(As a footnote ... as long ago as the 1980s, the BK leaders were already begging (albeit asking nicely), government representative for property or land overseas).


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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post02 Aug 2013

Thank you ex-l and Pink Panther for your replies.

Responding to the questions asked (by ex-l):
ex-l wrote:"Can you tell the name of the obscure professor ? "

Unfortunately not. But I guess if one undertakes a bit of effort of asking a few minor questions at the University of Oxford it shouldn't be to difficult to find out. I think he is well-known there even though he may probably not be working there anymore. I have given details of the subject before. I think it was a program for second year students and BK-introduction was one of the subjects briefly introduced. It had something to do with religious theories. The professor was a feverish (Asia)-traveller. This all, provided they (the BKs) were not setting up a play to delude me, but I don't think that was the case. I found some evidence of what was discussed at the time, in different sources. And I heard too many details at the time that later seemed to fit reality.

Responding to Pink Panther's question:
Pink Panther wrote:"Was Mr. Vincente Fox actually at Madhuban ?

I think so. Like I said, he feared of being recognised because of his remarkable traits. I asked the professor why and he explained that the man was quite tall and fair skinned. He would undoubtedly be noticed in a crowd amongst mostly Asiatic people that were usually not that fair skinned and much less tall. Mr. Fox feared the connection being made with him visiting Madhuban and him running for president, or actually being president. That's why he wanted to do the "thing" well before himself becoming a presidential candidate. Years before.

But still that wasn't enough. Mr. Fox feared that even if he did visit Maduban, years before his candidacy, he would still be remembered in some way; especially if he stayed there for several days. So he wanted to stay there as short as possible. He was definite about that, so they sort of made a special program for him. Condensed things. Packed them together. Maybe even to one single day. The professor made some vague remark about that.

One problem was that the professor (and probably the senior leading BKs too) wanted him to be eye to eye with Baba at least once. At first Mr. Fox did not wanted this to do, but he succumbed. Still he then feared of being recognised. That's why they agreed that Mr. Fox would visit Baba at night. The professor explained that one could visit Baba face to face twice a day (at the time). The opportunity to do that after the evening dinner was usually less crowded, he explained. Besides, then it would be dusk and the professor had assured him that chances of being recognised, for Mr. Fox, were at a minimal risk.

The professor explained all this. This is more or less a copy of what he said. I, myself, have never been to Madhuban, so I don't know if the described situation is correct.

Mr. Fox asked his burning question and Baba responded that it would be. He would become president. This all, according to what he professor narrated.

Thank you, Pink Panther, for uploading the report. I have, myself, in vain been searching for it.

Personally, I am inclined to think the actions of Mr Fox weren't that innocent regarding the training they did. Excuse me for being maybe superficial. I have not yet read the report and, not being a native speaker, it will take a while.

I will respond to this further in some time.
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post02 Aug 2013

All very strange. I am not doubting you in any of this. What year are we speaking of? Vicente Fox served as President of Mexico from 2000 to 2006 and remains the co-president of the Centrist Democrat International, an international organization of Christian democratic political parties.

It might be worth contacting them for more information.

Fox has also emerged as a seemingly very mature advocate for legalizing marijuana and other indigenous psycho-active herbs (more than 70,000 people are estimated to have been killed since Fox's successor, Felipe Calderon, increased a USA controlled "war on drug" campaign).

Where does that fit in with the Brahma Kumari world domination plans?

Fox has also established an "academic forum" of other world leaders called "The Vicente Fox Forum of World Leaders" at the Texas Christian University and arranges a similar forum in Guanajuato, Mexico at "Centro Fox", a state-of-the-art presidential library and learning center that is Fox’s life project. The focus of the Forums is to facilitate connections between former world leaders and college and high school students in order to encourage leadership development among youth. The other leaders include; the former Prime Minister of Spain, Jose Maria Aznar; former Prime Minister of Canada, Jean Chretien; former President of Poland, Lech Walesa; and former President and Prime Minister of Israel, Shimon Peres.

It's seems there is a buzz around "leadership skills" in many circles and it is seems the BKs have just climbed on and are surfing the trend.

In 2007, the President of India Pratibha Patil, cause a little stir when she told the press, "The Late Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) spoke to me ... He also made me very lucky". She claimed the late Baba spoke to her indicating that she should be prepared to shoulder greater responsibility. "I had a pleasant experience," Patil told a TV channel about her meeting in Mount Abu with Hridaymohini (the medium of the Brahma Kumari god, called "Dadi Gulzar").


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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post01 Nov 2013

Thank you ex-l and Pink Panther for your reactions and critical comments. I cannot answer to all the issues raised but
I will respond as well as I can, from The Knowledge I got, at the time. The best way to do so, is by continuing telling the next chapters of the story. I think most questions will be dealt with, more of less along the way. Also I will add some quotes from the Musselwhite report. It tells what I cannot but what they (the BKs) do or are striving for. At least that is my opion.

What I would like to mention is that according to my observation the story gets darker and more obscure and sinister gradually. It is not light-business that they (the BK) carried out ...
ex-l wrote:"Fox has also emerged as a seemingly very mature advocate for legalizing marijuana and other indigenous psycho-active herbs ...". "Where does that fit in with the Brahma Kumari world domination plans ?"

That's an interesting remark, ex-l. To answer it I have to tell a bit more about the 'Amigos de Fox Fund'.

After the professor had developed the idea to create a fund to support the candidacy of Mr. Fox, he set energetically forward to do this. But to minimize his involvement, he used a stooge. This stooge was one of Mr. Fox's own friends, also working at the Coca-Cola company, at the time. This friend had already expressed his interest for the BK doctrine, so it was more or less a piece of cake to get him in doing the job. Besides that, Mr. Fox had quite a few influential - and or intellectual friends, willing to support him. (And many of them, at the time, had already been to Madhuban or were planning to do so very soon).

Among those friends supporting the fund were (most probably) the BKs and other foreign friends, as well as Mexican friends. To avoid the Mexican law, forbidding foreign fundraising for presidential candidates, they set up the 'Amigo's the Fox Fund', as narrated before.

However, the professor grew a bit curious as the list of contributors of the "Amigos the Fox Fund' grew. He wanted to see his brainchild. I guess he was a little idle to see the results of his efforts, so he asked if he could view the list just for a while, to sort of satisfy his appetite. And so happened. However, it gave him very little information for the list was only composed of numbers (indicating persons that had donated) and the amount of money given by them and not of their names.

This was done to safeguard anonymity, a condition needed not only to surpass the Mexican law, but that was also highly appreciated by certain individuals. It was said it "widened the possibilities" ... As the professor had overlooked the list, he noticed that one individual in particular, had been very, very generous, as he explained. He gleamed.

The professor, however, had to stick to his own rules, not to inform about the identity of this person. But he made a few remarks about it at the time, indicating that they (the BK) were very interested who this person was, because this person could finance the BKWSO well. (He even discussed this fact with the Seniors).

However, as the amount of money donated by the unknown individual was quite, let's say overwelming as the professor narrated, the question arose within him whether this money came from a "pure" (legal) source. In fact, the professors' concern was raised whether it wasn't money from a criminal source; in fact, from drugs ... as there is a lot of illicit drug trade going on in Mexico.

The professor thought about informing Mr. Fox, who wasn't concerned in the least as he was an advocate for legalising marijuana ... already at the time. Mr. Fox, being the beneficiary of the fund, could indeed survey the complete list extensively with clear indication who were the donators (the complete names) ... but Mr. Fox wasn't at all interested where the money came from. He did not wanted to know ... The professor, however, narrated that he knew that some of Mr. Fox's friends came from the drugs dealing scene. He was doubtful whether they hadn't also contributed in the fundraising.

Mr. Fox assured the professor those friends were not involved. But, on the other hand, absolutely wouldn't want to know where the funds were raised either ... And Mr. Fox had announced publicly, promised beforehand, before even running for president, that during his would-be presidency the drug-issue wouldn't be touched ... a deal so to say ... for which he was granted ... by the flock of much more fund supporters. In fact, from that moment, the business really started spinning off ...

The heart of the matter, in fact, was that a lot of Mr. Fox' friends really wanted to support him but saw an 'open list' as a great obstacle ... and really urged Mr. Fox to make it into an anonymous list. And then the professors' idea, his intervention came as a gift from heaven ...

So there was a short discussion at the time at the center when I was there, whether or not this was drugs money ... (and maybe overall mafia-money/criminal whitewash as well) ... the professor said it probably was, although he could not prove it. He feared seaching for further information, told it would be to hazardous ... feared he would risk his life ... But at the conclusion of the limited discussion the teacher declared cheerfully that, "as they did not know for sure where the money came from, they wouldn't have to worry", even though the professor showed some concern and had second thoughts (about proceeding the whole plan). Second thoughts that even the Seniors weren't able to lift from his mind as he consulted them at the time, concerning this matter. The only hint they gave him was whether he could not find out who this prosperous financier was ... They were really interested in that person ...

It seems like --- as long as it benefits the BKWSO, it is not so much of the of a problem where the money comes from.

However, the professor showed some anxiety. His concern was ... that if the anonymity of the list of the financiers of the 'Amigos de Fox Fund' would be broken, the veil lifted, and it turned out that some of the money came from an illegal source, it would be linked to the BKWSO, also being one of the participants of the fund. As being one of the main contributors of the fund (by numbers of BK-related members of the limited list of contributors but not by amount of donated money), it might damage the BKWSO also. (*)

So it did not matter (to him) where the money came from, as long as the identity wouln't be lifted of the participants. He explained this in plain words.

Or, in other words, as long as no one knows, or would find out where the money came from, it was alright (to the professor).

    (*) In fact, although anonymous, it was clear to the professor that at least some of the financiers of the 'Amigos de Fox Fund' had to be BKs. He had tried to approach two individuals. But, although being so, instead of donating directly to the BKWSO, they preferred to donate anonymously to the Fox Fund ... The teacher however declared cheerfully again that, in the long term, their donations were gifts to the organisation none the less. She only regretted that the money wasn't given directly to the BKWSO ...

ex-l wrote:"Fox has also established an "academic forum" of other world leaders called "The Vicente Fox Forum of World Leaders" at the Texas Christian University and arranges a similar forum in Guanajuato, Mexico
at "Centro Fox" ...

This idea, as I know it, was born in the mind of the professor. He wanted to consolidate the work and efforts he had done so far. What he told me is that from the (semi-enculting) experience of Mr. Fox, new rising world leaders could learn a lot. He also told me that the best way to approach new world leaders was to approach them just before they rose to power because as once they were in the business they were usually quite busy, as well as guarded extensively and shielded off from the world. Mr. Fox would play a major role in this process. Yet another way to approach worldleaders was after they had resigned.

I see it as in this way the BK cream (off) the success of world renowned political leaders (and other VIPs) by linking their name and fame to that of the BK.
"The focus of the Forum is to facilitate connections between former world leaders and college and high school students in order to encourage leadership development among youth."

That's exactly as the professor foresaw it at the time ('90-'92) when I met him. This was his aim. I can add to this that the professor told me that, at the time, it was common that world leaders and high officials were non-BK members but that he hoped to make a contribution to the situation where it would be absolutely normal if a powerful leader would be a BK-member/adherent. That it would be a part of their status.
"The other leaders include ; the former Prime Minister of Spain, Jose Maria Aznar ; former Prime Minister of Canada, Jean Chretien ; former President of Poland, Lech Walesa ; and former President and Prime Minister of Israel, Shimon Peres."

Mr. Lech Walesa, the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, while willing to become presidential candidate and attending an open conference in Poland, was approached by a fresh BK adherent (that had not even been through the introduction course himself) who was joining the conference coincidentally. This adherent stimulated Mr. Walesa to follow the introduction course. At first, Mr. Walesa refused and was only willing to receive some information of the organisation. But, later on, he was nevertheless convinced of following the complete introduction course. The argument that made him "surrender" was that even though it would cost him some time to get to know the doctrine, he wouldn't have to spend that time while being president, when he would probably be even more busy.

Mr. Jean Chretien: I don't know if this was the individual Mr. Fox approached but he did approach a would-be high ranking politician that at the time was not in the parliament while attending a conference of North American diplomats (and for those interested in diplomacy). But the data seem to match very well. It happened in the same period, around 1990, before Mr. Fox was president.

The professor told this man was a crook that was stealing a lot of money from the Canadian government. For that, he used a stooge of his party, as he wasn't in the government himself yet (in 1992). While reforming their economy, millions got lost (referring to the later sponsorship scandal). The professor said that the man reformed his own bank account alongside. I asked him where the money went, the professor replied it just vanished. He had tried to find out but had no clue. It did not go to the BKWSO though, at least as far as the professor knew. He sort of regretted that.

Mr. Jose Maria Aznar: At the meeting I attended, it was told that Mr. Fox had approached the minister of culture at a celebration of cultural bonds between Mexico and Spain and, via this individual, the BK had made a pass to the head of an autonomous region, which was an easy move as the two were already friends. Mr. Fox only made the connection to the minister of culture.The minister of culture carried out the rest of the job.

Mr. Peres: they told me that he was long before approached. However, it needs to be: President of Israel and former Prime Minister. At the time, they told me Mr. Peres wanted to become president, which he did. He had tried himself in vain to do so but with the help of spirituality it would work, the teacher told me. I replied that Mr. Peres had already attained a considerable age at the time and wondered if he would make it altogether. Wasn't it time for his retirement? But they had less doubt and told me that he would remain very active up till a very high age.

I would like to add one other person. She was striving to become ambassador in South Africa around 1990-1992. Had been enculted shortly before. I have seen an interview in a NGO magazine about her, but cannot remember her name. Later on she did become ambassador though, also with "help of spirituality", as they claimed. However, via this woman Zambia was enlisted, they told me. She formed the Zambia connection. It might not surprise me if she was still in the game as well and moving around in the same circles.

To me, it looks like men and women (not to say boys and girls) that have their desires and fantasies of money, fame and power ... The BK god spirit indeed fulfils their fantasies, grants their wishes, realizes their dreams and meanwhile buys their souls ... buys the souls ... It seems everything has a price, which makes me remind of Goethe's Faust.
"In 2007, the President of India Pratibha Patil, cause a little stir when she told the press, "The Late Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) spoke to me ... He also made me very lucky". She claimed the late Baba spoke to her
indicating that she should be prepared to shoulder greater responsibility"

At the time, I made a remark that the BK had already reached the level of world leaders. They had approached him and made Mr. Fox an adherent (but not in strict sense). They were working their way towards Mr. George H Bush (sr) and Mr. George W Bush (jr).

The teacher and the professor agreed with this. But they disagreed with the fact that the BK had already reached the highest level attainable. They told me that the BK had to climb up till the presidential level of India. They told me over there the strongest governmental power within political leaders, the highest sovereingnty was to be established.

At the time, they had not yet reached that level, although they were working on that goal. Moving up bit by bit. From the quote of ex-l, I learned that by approaching Mrs. Pratihba Patil they have reached that goal.

However, at the time, they told me that even if they BK was to pervade and saturate that level, it wasn't enough yet. At the time they told me the BKWSO had to wait until India would become ungovernable. Then, starting from the chaos that would break out, they would take over the power (government) and make the steps towards the imminent Destruction.

I don't like conspiracy theories at all. However, I cannot help but noticing that the BKWSO are moving exactly in the direction their god-spirit tells them, and has been telling them for decades, following the path to the imminent Destruction their god-spirit tells them to follow and part of which was written down by the obsure BK-adherent-writer quoted in the first post: A letter to the President [President George W Bush].

For me, seeing this pattern, I regard the BKWSO as being an even more disgusting and disrespectful movement.

Last point I would like to add, is that Mrs. Pratibha Patil resigned from being the President of India in July 2012. During her regency no major cataclysmic events took place.


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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post01 Nov 2013

Quotes from the Musselwhite report

From the Musselwhite report (page 153) comes the following quote :

" but already it should be apparent that the Self Management Leadership program begins with the assumption that the world is undergoing traumatic transformations whereby the old, outdated models of how to succeed must be
jettisoned in favor of new approaches that, not incidentally, only the Brahma Kumaris are in a position to provide."

I think that's probably the way they sell their formula, their marketing method, their con-strategy.


From the Musselwhite report (page 159) comes the following quote :

" Working with Fox demanded that the Brahma Kumaris setup new logistical arrangements to ensure that Mexico’s Catholic majorities would not be alarmed by their influence on Fox’s government, but this presented little difficulty for the Brahma Kumaris."

They got past it. The trick used was the fact that Mr. Fox' right wing party was closey related to the Roman Catholic faith ; they used that cover.

However following a course and becoming an BK adherent are to different things. The BK teacher gave this comment to me.

From the Musselwhite report (page 159/ 160) comes the following quote :

" In Mexico, it’s a funny kind of situation…. How it happened in Mexico is that Vicente Fox, when he was Governor in the state of Guanajuato, [had] a member of his inner team and cabinet, [who] had good talent but…was dysfunctional. I mean, he was so bloody clever. He was too clever, and his nature was that he wasn’t a team player. He wasn’t really able to gel. He was arrogant. He was one of these young guys who thinks so fast and further ahead than anybody else and gets incredibly impatient when people are not at the same speed as him. Fox recognized his talent,
but that talent would only be realized if he was able to modify his nature.

" [Fox] had heard about this Self Management Leadership course, [and] Brother Ray [29] and I had been invited to Guanajuato to give a talk at the Innovation Congress there. We gave our own respective talks [which covered] ideas in the Self Management Leadership program, and that’s how [the state officials of Guanajuato]
heard about the Course.

Then the Governor [that is Vicente Fox,] sent this guy to the Oxford program. [30] It had a huge affect on him. I mean, he really changed completely his whole nature. He had many realizations, which is common. It happens a lot with people. His performance, his nature, people recognized so much positive change in him. So they
sent three more, and the same kind of story [ensued]. Then [Fox’s staff] invited us over to work with his cabinet, and…when he became elected President of Mexico, he asked me to come in and work with his cabinet…. [31] "

[29] A pseudonym.
[30] Brother Graham is here referring to the Self Management Leadership program as “the Oxford Program”
because the program is administered by a separately chartered nonprofit organization called the
Oxford Academy.
. The Oxford Academy is headquartered in London, England.
[31] : Recorded interview, March 18, 2003.

As the professor had met Mr. Fox and told him about the BK-doctrine, Mr. Fox was interested. However, before completely being turned over, he first wanted to see some proof. That's why the professor advised him to sent one of his employés, with the approval of this person. After the first positive result, still not being completely convinced, Mr. Fox demanded for a second test. This was the consented sending of the three employés. After this second positive testingresult Mr. Fox was convinced ... started following the course himself ... and lateron, being President, organised a trainingcourse for all topgovernment employés in the country.


From the Musselwhite report (page 161) comes the following quote :

" What is in their control, however, is their capacity to govern the purest souls in the Golden Age that will follow the global transformation, and it is only the concrete experience of actual influence over world leaders that can indicate to the Brahma Kumaris that they are, indeed, achieving the mastery the seek."

From my experience at the BK that's the reason, I think, why they are so keen on approaching and mixing with diplomats, and ambassadors and presidents and leading individuals of big companies. Not only does it buys them influence but also it's sort of a test of their governability over those leading people and an actual test of how far their spiritual power has grown. At least that's how they see it and it has been whispered to them by their conman in charge, Shiv Baba himself.


From the Musselwhite report (page 165) comes the following quote :

" They would prefer to be counted among the most valued, as assessed by leaders of global businesses, governments, and non-governmental organizations. The Brahma Kumaris seek to attain that status by serving as consultants and advisors to the most powerful persons and organizations they can reach ; and their reach has grown far into the governments of [Australia] Mexico [and five departments of the United Nations] "

They don't rely on large numbers of adherents but on influence over people at influential positions. The top layer. Just as Brahma Kumarism always concentrates on only the top of everything, including the world religions and their twisted way of telling "the story". If it's the top, then BK-ism is there, or in the vicinity. In this way they are willing to avoid shallowness but the swallownes is within themselves.

Concerning their place at the UN, at this moment, that is exaggerated as they can only attend meetings. They have no speaking right and also cannot put intems on the agenda.

From the Musselwhite report (page 167) comes the following quote :

" It is world rulership that the Brahma Kumaris seek primarily, not social bonding or meditative transcendence."

I do agree with that. And meanwhile not having achieved that goal yet, the top layer of Seniors is out to enrich themselves.

From the Musselwhite report (page 167) comes the following quote :

" This dissertation’s concern with power and its administrative exercise reveals how Godly knowledge motivates the Brahma Kumaris to integrate their organization into the world and civil society in both secular and religious ways."

I think the SML-course is just another excellent tool for them to do so.

From the musselwhite report (page 167) comes the following quote :

" The Brahma Kumaris, as a successful new religious movement with global reach, suggest that worldly power is becoming more difficult to identify as either secular or religious in its expression."

A good mix for the BK to florish.

From the musselwhite report (page 167) comes the following quote :

As souls improve their self-mastery, they improve their mastery over the world.

The central philosophy.

From the Musselwhite report (page 168) comes the following quote :

" At centre-level, God’s teachings are viewed as directive, not dictatorial."

I wonder if most BK's regard the doctrine this way and even more so if it is governed this way by the leading senior BK's. Personally I think it is for them more close to the-absolute ever-changing-truth, as strange as this may seem, that has to be followed strictly. If the BK-God say : "Go left", you go left and if God says : "Go right" you go right. "Act as the God orders you to do"


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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post01 Nov 2013

Pink Panther wrote : " I have faith in the collective intelligence/ stupidity of the masses. Both qualities keep them safe as they huddle toward the middle for safety "

Having read this comment it does two things to me. On the one hand it sounds comforting and I hope you're right. On the other hand though, I find it nevertheless alarming. Without losing the prespective of respecting your opinion I would like to say the following :

Using the same metaphor : BK-ism can harm individuals deeply and totally disrupt their lives if they have left the herd. But standing beside every new BK adherent there are al least another few individuals hurt deeply, as no one is an island. And BK-ism leaps from one island to another.

In the Mexican situation it were the herdsmen (roman Catholic priests) themselves that led the wolves in sheepclothes (BK) to the sheep (government employees). In fact the very people and their religion (roman catholicism) we are now "relying on" to keep Mexico save from BK's, are the very ones that led the wolves there in the first place. To say that the average damage to the flock won't be so high is a saddening reality of an undesirable situation in my view.

In my opion, here at this forum, we are only just vaguely starting to begin to understand the dynamics behind Brahma Kumaris and Raya Yoga meditation. To say that a course designed to lead people to BK-ism is relatively harmless is quite reckless in my point of view, as people can remain enculted for decades or even the rest of their lives. In all those cases it all started with one first encounter with the cult's doctrine ...

Another thing that I would like to stress is that these people did not do the course on their own account. It was a course presented to them as a part of their jobs. They did not have free choice. Most of us here at the forum were deluded, they were led into delusion.

Besides that I regard the SML course as designed to lead people to BK-ism. I myself have not followed that course but I can imagine that once you are in Madhuban it may seem like a mild version of BK-ism. On the contrary, for those employees it was the first steppingstone towards enchantment. I can only hope that they did not move further along that path ...

I am glad that I don't live in a country where the whole of the topgovernment employees have been through a BK training (no matter how harmless it may seem). The first thing they would probably do is to install a BK-tax.

But serious, BK-ism is not out to decorate the world with flowers, although in their view they may think they are. The BKWSO is not a charity organisation that takes care of the vulnerable individuals of society. It is not there to shelter the homeless, neither to feed the hungry or help comfort the poor.

It is a millenary cult set out to destroy the present civilisation and create a so called utopic society for a handful of very loyal, obedient, brainwashed adherents and to be led by a few authoritarian individuals. The rest of the world population need to be discarded off, in order to achieve that goal.

In the last century BK-ism started with a few individuals in India that disrupted the Baibund society and were led to court and trials and public protest. Roughly 70 years later the former president of that country sits at the leap of BapDada and tells the world she is sooooo happy. That's disturbing and alarming in my view. Who knows what another 70 years will bring us ??

It may be that BapDada won't stop preaching untill no one listens anymore, or untill we (besides the 9,000,0000) are done. For BK's the two possibilities will fuse ...

ex-l wrote : "Partly, I suspect one could argue it was because it exaggerated their own sense of importance (especially in front of their followers) and gave meaningfulness to all their work"

Apart from the BK's striving to get close to and actually "conquer" wordly leaders in order to gain world dominance, it is interesting what BapDada himself tells about this attude :

Avyakt BapDada 30/11/2
"BapDada had asked for a list of how many VIP's are in contact with each of the wings. So BapDada has received the list from the child. He has given a list. You may applaud. It is good. Baba saw the list. It is good. However, you have to follow it up. They should not just remain VIP's.

You have brought them to the first stage. However, the second stage is that, from time to time, they become cooperative and loving in every task, and after that, they become companions of the Brahmin family and they consider themselves to belong to this family. In some places, the VIP's have moved forward. BapDada is congratulating them.

However, much service has taken place from the time that Gyan Sarovar began, however many wings have been created, according to the time and service that has taken place from the beginning, the VIP's should now have become homely. As soon as you phone them, they should come to you. They should say "Ha ji, ha ji" and at least become your companions.

Now, each wing should keep the aim of making them into co-operative souls easily. It should not be that they only come when you give them regard or a special seat. Make them a little homely. For instance, if they are not able to come to Abu, then invite them to the big centres in your own zone.

Continue to meet them every three to six months and continue to make them feel homely. So, when the situations change, then, at least they will prove to be helpful at that time. So, those of all the wings are hearing this.

" It's seems there is a buzz around "leadership skills" in many circles and it is seems the BKs have just climbed on and are surfing the trend."

Regarding the things quoted from the Musselwhite report I think there is more going on. I hope though I am wrong.


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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post01 Nov 2013

Pink panther wrote : " it is also superfluous because Bush was already that way inclined, surrounded as he was by fundamentalist Christian lobbyists who believe the re-establishment of Israel in 1948 is a sign of the End of Times and were already fitting Middel East wars into their 'Armageddon" scenarios."

Well, I would like to tell the story a little bit different, not to say the absolute truth but more or less from the professors' perspective, added with some facts told by himself, at the time, and blended with the cultdoctrine and predictions of the BK-godspirit to make a "wonderful sweet BK mix".

Mr. Aznar whose cover wasn't blown by the untimely letterwriting, as the professor told, could continue approaching Mr. Bush (jr). In fact he was standing very close to Mr. Bush (jr), the teacher told me. Even closer than Mr. Fox ever could. Wherever Mr. Bush went, so did Mr. Aznar, making sure he was always in his neighbourhood, following him like a shadow. And Mr. Aznar played poker with his cards held close to his chest. One of his objectives and roleplaying was to promote and exploit Bush (jr)' sentiments to go into war.To help him make the decisive step, like a David supporting Goliath in a matter of speaking (a metaphor they used at the time).

According to them Mr. Aznar even supported Mr. Bush (jr) in the proces of going to war when there were very few countries supporting the US in the United Nations Security Council ... even though Mr. Aznar did not like his position amongst the allies at all and did not wanted it to be so ... because it was a bleeding to the already weak spanish economy. But he persevered as it was to show his dedication and not to uplift his mask and the BK's at the meeting all felt very cheerfull for this wonderful success. But this was 1992 and that event would not take place before
2002-2003 ...

But off course being good friends and being something close to soulmates required being truly dedicated (not just a show of words) and lending services as well ...

They described it as really being love between the two of them, were lyrical about it.
According to them, Mr. Aznar actually loved Mr. W Bush (as this was requied for the job and BapDada had told him so) but even Mr. Bush (jr)' emotions were high, according to them.

But reality plays no games. So when Mr. Bush (jr) was cowboying himself into Irak there were at first only two other coutries shouldering his decision and those where England, the natural ally and not surprisingly ... Spain. To be real close friends requires some obligations ... sometimes




(Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton-- Islands in the stream)

I have added the version with the lyrics as a real marvellous addition to this tale of peace, love, sincerety and dedication ...

Islands in the stream,
that is what we are,
no one in between,
how can we be wrong,
sail away with me,
to another world,
and we rely on each other,
from one lover to another



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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post01 Nov 2013

When I asked how the BK was able to spot and contact promising, potential high-raking new diplomats and existing, high-ranking politicians the teacher told me that the management of the BKWSO had access to a sort of "encyclopedia" in which they could search for coming important events, concerning the possibilities to get into contact with VIP's, as mentioned above.

I asked them how they did this.The teacher told me that, once one knew how to access the information needed, it was quite simple to retrieve the information needed. She told me it was easy to do so.

Whenever someone needed important information they consulted this "encyclopedia" and subsequently send a BK adherent to the event, to contact the VIP, approach this VIP and then persuade the VIP to become a BK adherent, with remarkable success and great effect. I then asked how this was made possible. They told me that information was written down, when and where these VIP's attended "public" meetings, seminars and conferences and when the result to inform them was best, regarding successfullness.

They gave an example of how Shiv Baba gave adherents all kind of very pratical advices, for instance when to buy or sell a property, at which particlar day and at which particular price. The same thing was done regarding VIP's and important events. The teacher told me that this information was even more valuable than the Murli's because it was more or less something like a "manual of future events".

However I still hadn't had a clear answer. I asked the teacher where this source of information was, imagining that it was something virtual, reciding in the spiritual world. It turned out not to be so. They told me that at the end of the murli-speaking sessions Baba always gave practical advices, at moments only attended by the Seniors. Then the godspirit gave very precise information at future events that would take place, regarding the opportunity to promote BK-ism. These instructions were written down and together formed sort of an "encyclopedia", that could be consulted. It was a written version which was kept in Madhuban and it gave precise information that, unlike the other preditions was very accurate.

This gave them insight in who would become president or prominent, when, where and by which way ... They used and probably are still using this information to go forward.

According to them this encyclopedia was in Madhuban but the facts were randomly, unorderly recited even scattered over the years. In fact they regretted that Shiv Baba gave the facts so disordely. Nevertheless it was considered as a great source of knowledge. It was not allowed to make copies of the "encyclopedia" or to take it out of Madhuban. And also it was not allowed to actually study this "artwork" or read through it. To avoid people doing so, to sort of limit peoples access, one could only consult it for about one hour and one had to have a clear, good idea about which subject, or VIP or event the information was needed. Then the adjoining pages could be studied as they were showed by the Seniors. But most of the time the messages were either hard to find or understand, sometimes both and then BapDada was consulted or asked for additional explanation. In fact BapDada was there most of the time when someone consulted the "encyclopedia" to help them along the way.

The preditions were only a few years in advance and told year by year, in a non chronological order and dispersed over the years but they are very acurate, according to the prominent adherents joining the meeting at the time (the professor and the teacher) unlike the preditions over a longer period of time (concerning destruction). However, the teacher said if adherents would follow the indications year by year destruction in the end had to follow, as this was the endgoal.

At the time the vision was so blurred and it seemed so hypothetical all they said and, concerning the VIP's, so unreal. Most things still had to happen and were very unlikely to ever take place. However, if you note strange timeleaps in the posts it is due to the predictions made by them in 1992, spanning periods of time sometimes as long as 10 years (as far as I know).

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