A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Misty

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post01 Nov 2013

There is an additional thing to be told about Mr. Fox, and the others concerning the deals they made. To demonstrate that, the situation of Mr. Peres is instrumental.

When I asked (in 1992) how it was possible that Mr. Peres, a roughly 70 years old man (at the time, ie. in 1992), that was not in the government, would become president they told me that Mr. Shimon Peres had made a special kind of deal. He had traded one of his Golden Age lives in order to lead that Golden Age life in the here and now for the rest of his present life. This special deal would make it possible to achieve his desired goal : becoming the president of Israël.

And so the others like Mr. Fox, Mr. Aznar and Mr. Chretin, among a few others, had done so. They had all traded one Golden Age life to be able to achieve goals in the here and now. That's why they were having // would lead a rather undesturbed life while achieving their goals. At the end of this life they would go to the spiritual world. However as soon as the Golden Age started they would be around again.

I replied that I wondered why Mr. Peres wanted to become president anyway as he had already been prime-minister.
I asked them if that wasn't enough. But the teacher replied that Mr. Peres had any right to try and become president if he wished. He had made his deal with Baba and he could do with it whatever he wanted to. They also did not have to live a very strict BK-life with all the rules, do's and don't-s. I guess that was part of the deal as well.

I replied that I thought this was a kind of "fraud" compared to other adherents that had to work very hard to get to the Golden Age. These priviliged individuals could live an Iron Age life filled with luxuary and wealth and nevertheless live in the Golden Age, in the next birth. The teacher however told me that Mr. Peres and the others, mentioned above had given away a big gift ie. one life of 150 years of absolute happiness for lets say 20 to 30 years of Iron/ Confluence Age years in an imperfect world. Mr. Peres and the others would subsequently have one bith less in an era of absolute happiness. The teacher asked me : "Would you do that ? "

The teacher told me these individuals were running at the outermost forefront. In fact they had initiated the Golden Age. The Golden Age had started with them. However they were still in the here and now, in the Confluence Age. The teacher gave another remark to place their experiment in perspective. What she told was that it still had to be proven what they would make of their first so called "traded Golden Age-life". They were not at all ready for the Golden Age and still had their Sanskara's to overcome. She told me you could also see them making big mistakes because they were not ready for the Golden Age challenge yet. However, she also told that sofar they were doing quite well, concerning the conditions in which they lived and started with ...

Additonally the teacher told me they were "the elite among the elite". However they were not the most high, most elevated souls of the Drama because they took one birth less ... of the total of 84 births. Also they wouldn't be around when the world would end, as predicted by the BK-godspirit. Their lives here upon earth would end before that event took place. They had chosen to do so out of their own free will.

The teacher told me that looking at them one could get a glimpse of what the Golden Age would be like ... only it would be thousand times better ...

But the offset of the Golden Age had started with them, these individuas that were being publicaly renowned but yet being in cognito ... serving the BKWSO in a very special way.


To me it seemed quite unreal and not true what they said. But this was their point of view.
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Pink Panther

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post02 Nov 2013

To say that a course designed to lead people to BK-ism is relatively harmless is quite reckless in my point of view, as people can remain enculted for decades or even the rest of their lives.


Dear Misty,

I was responding to your concerns about the BKs ”infiltrating” and influencing the highest levels of power, I was not discussing the personal disaster for an individual that joining a group like the BKs can be.

Although the BKs like to think they are influencing these people they are in fact merely hanging onto the coat tails of the rich, famous or powerful, who are mutually exploiting the BKs in return to reach certain constituents or to appear ”ecumenical’ etc. When a politician is seeking public acclaim and they have space in their diary (there is nothing better to do or see) they may as well give it to the BKs and reach an audience they may otherwise miss.

Retired politicians do it as they go through what is called "relevance deprivation” (they miss the spotlight - a motive for many ordinary BKs too, who want to be in the spotlight of self-importance, believing themselves to be cosmically more significant than anyone else who’s ever lived). Very few are genuinely interested in finding out fully what the BKs are about, and those who do see it as no better or worse than other religious beliefs around.

Ask any of these people what their main religious belief, influence or philosophy is and I assure you they will not say BK

Reading your last few posts, it appears that you are buying into the BKs exaggerations & self-inflation of their influence and importance . You’d have to ask yourself why you suspect/fear that what they say may be true?

eg Shimon Peres: - president of Israel. Firstly, it is not a position of power, it is a ceremonial position. The Prime Minister has political power. And, even if he believed that he traded one promised Golden Age life for a few years as president - does this mean it is true? That you should believe that trade is possible? What makes you think ”Baba” has such power?

To believe it is to ignore all the other factors that play a part in such events. And to believe the BKs version of reality even in an inverted way is, in the same way, for example, like a satanist -which is a kind of inverted Christian (or as a satanists would explain it, it’s christians that have inverted understanding. They see each other as ”other” when they are based on one premise.

There are far greater factors, more influential ”lobby groups” and interests happening on this level of politics. Despite what you say, I think it *is* a kind of ”conspiracy theory” mentality, eg this ’teacher” you speak to. That kind of mentality is adept at selectively finding evidence when things support their theory and manipulate any evidence to the contrary, to make it fit.

Maybe this enigmatic ”professor” believes it all too. From your first post he has sounded big-headed, another sycophant.
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ex-l

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post02 Nov 2013

Pink Panther wrote:Maybe this enigmatic "professor" believes it all too. From your first post he has sounded big-headed, another sycophant.

... Or rather, a little seduced by it all to begin with - as we all were to come degree - but being overcome by his concerns and conscience towards the end.

Did he leave the BKs?

What sickens me is the Brahma Kumaris willingness to jump, metaphorically speaking, into bed with any powerful male who comes along regardless of whet he did to get to that point. Peres being a obvious candidate.

It was Peres who helped apartheid South Africa procure weapons when it was under an international embargo. It was Israel who fuelled the oppression of black and colored South Africans. And it was under Peres and others who the Palestinians have lived under Israeli Apartheid for more than sixty years. Many people call Peres a war criminal and Israel an oppressive state.

You've written a fascinating insight into the inner working of the BKWSU which we are grateful for, including how close they become to compromising to corrupt and quasi- or actual criminal activity ... and how it is the lust for money that drives them. Honestly, they are no different from another kind of woman who lives of rich and powerful men's money. It's just that they spend it on self-agrandisement and self-advertisement social climbing rather than buying brand bag and shoes.

Please let us know more.

Yes, I can concur ... all this stuff about the Indian government collapsing and they taking over power is exactly how we were told it too. This is why I take them a little serious ... if such a scenario was to come about and some kind of crisis was to move them more central to power and influence ... could you guarantee one of their nutcases would *not* call in the army or use tactical nuclear weapon? They'd be thrilled too ... They'd be lining up to take turns hitting the button just to fulfil what they Baba has been telling them all along.

Yes, I think what you hint at is perfectly true ... that the spirit of the Brahma Kumaris is what the Christians would call "Satanic" in nature. (I am using the term metaphorically to describe that which portrays itself as righteous and holy but which is actually deceitful, deceptive and negative.
2 Corinthians 11:12-15

"For such individuals are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of [God]. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds."
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Pink Panther

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post02 Nov 2013

Peres and the South Africans was another case of mutual dealings between those who would prefer otherwise. The Afrikaans South Africans being racially "inclined away" from Jews, and Israelis preferring secular democracies, but at the time both were pariah states with very few friends, so such people turn to each other to survive. Pragmatism that I am sure even Peres is not proud of having "had to" do.

And, in a similar way, as stated before - publicity seekers seek each other to catch any spill of the spotlight. See how the media, celebrities, politicians etc all follow each other (chase each other) on Twitter etc. See how BKs name drop and theorise all kinds of world changing importances for themselves?

Side note: Recently we had an extreme unseasonable heat wave and serious bush fires here. The BKs have both retreat centres in areas that were under threat. They sent emails asking people to meditate on "calming and cooling nature". There was a shift of wind, as indeed had been forecast, bringing cooler air - but that was now blowing the flames more directly toward the retreat centre. :D

Much of what Misty writes is interesting and aligns with much of what BKs set out to do, i.e. their belief in influencing politics eventually, but some of it seems to have been distorted in the echo chamber, changed in the process of "Chinese whispers” as we call it.

For example, the swapping of a life in Golden Age for power here etc. That is definitely not something anyone who knows Gyan would accept. My guess is that someone said such a thing speculatively - such as, "you can’t be famous/powerful in Kali Yuga and be an 84 birth soul as well" (which is consistent with Gyan) - but that gets picked up and repeated as some kind of cosmic "Crossroads" moment for Peres and the rest of the "Illuminati" (oops, that word might start something!) :-)

The "hearsay evidence" seems to be an interpretation of events. BK service in Mexico has always aimed at the top (as it does in most places) but they do well in Mexico due to the upper classes having the luxury of such things and their "service history" started in that upper social strata. This sometimes means there are "teachers" and Seniors who are there for reasons other than merit, who love to play the social climbing/celebrity association game to the point of over-emphasis, even in the BK universe!

But all still definitely worth hearing about and deconstructing.
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kmanaveen

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post03 Nov 2013

That is something New and Interesting to me. Never knew of any such 'encyclopedia' and the consequent deals and plans of BKs. However, I am not sure if any of BK predictions, even year by year and not long term (Destruction) came true (from encyclopedia and guided by Baba), any evidence?

Interesting to see the deal of giving 20 years of power in kalyuga for 150 years of Golden Age. It seems Lekhraj remains a businessman even in Subtle Region. On the other hand, I agree with ex-l this is very against the BK Gyan. A soul so much for power can not have virtues of a Golden Age soul (as per BK Gyan). Sometimes, I feel while the teachers in BK world have seen the Seniors making up their fantasized stories and therefore get encouraged to make any to influence others (like the Professor).
ex-l wrote:if such a scenario was to come about and some kind of crisis was to move them more central to power and influence ... could you guarantee one of their nutcases would *not* call in the army or use tactical nuclear weapon? They'd be thrilled too ... They'd be lining up to take turns hitting the button just to fulfill what they Baba has been telling them all along.

That would be interesting but I doubt if they would dare to explode themselves to reach Subtle Region. In meditation itself, I have seen them moving frquently to make the body comfortable and this whole business is for physical, psychological and emotional comfort of them, so I really doubt that?

Nevertheless, it would be interesting to know more of such secret weapons BKs have or the stories they have scripted in this regard.
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Misty

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post18 Nov 2013

Thank you Pink panther, ex-l and kmanaveen for your reactions. My attitude concerning this topic is best reflected by ex-l's remark in the previous post.

Thank you ex-l for your observation. It fills me with disgust when I look at what kind of individuals the BK likes to placard themselves with. The corruption, the hunt for fame and money and influence. I wonder where their morality
is? Is this a godly-movement?
The attitude of Israel in respect to South Africa has been absolutely poor, hurting.
I wish to stress that. What happened there for decades under apartheid has been an atrocity. A human tragedy. Back then I wished not to be part of a religious fundamentalist movement that was flirting with individuals like Mr. Peres and hoped that one day the two of them could kiss. I still don't regret my choice.

At the time, when I informed after the activities of the BK in South Africa, they told me that they were not very big mounting before 1990, suffering as they were from the regime as well maybe. In this respect I agree with Pink Panther in his observation of two pariah states.

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Pink Panther, I can accept your relativising remarks as well and the warmth that is therein, thanks. It is not totally my opion though.

I am aware of the fact that there are other power groups doing "exactly the same" and that they are even more powerful. But the BK do this "political lobbying" as well. Does the fact that there are other groups active, make the involvement of the BK less bad because they are a minor player? Their "crimes" less important ? Their intimacy with political criminals less significant ? To me, it does not. Also I am not dealing with those other powergroups but with the BK.

What makes it that political leaders, that have some time left on their agenda, want to meet a cult and reach "an audience that they would otherwise miss?" It is a community of lets say 800,000 - 900,000 (correct me if I am wrong) individuals worldwide spread over many countries. Is time so important to those top-politicians (?) not to "waste" it ? Every minute filled ?

--------------------

Concerning the "Mexican case", my concern is that there might be some figurative "crossbreeding-interaction" at government departments involved. It may be beneficial to extinguishing the BK message but it may also lead to this very message hanging around longer then it would otherwise do. Luckily, the BK lifestyle is so unattractive and difficult to maintain. You need to be really very determined (or unfortunately; deep hypnotised, influenced and manipulated) to maintain it. If you think about a factor of keeping Mexico safe, it is this, in my opinion, and not the Roman Catholicism. But anything may help. That's my opinion.

However reality, in the end, will have the last word about future developments. I hope we are not looking a next level of BK-ism of a sort of "state controlled BK-involvence". I don't see that as buying into something but more as a consideration.

If people from the Spanish section living in Mexico could contribute, it would be good hearing about their experiences, I think.

Also, Pink Panther, I wonder if you could tell some eyewitness experiences of in-company training programs like SML and what it does to people? Can you tell anything about the Australian situation and how the process took place
there ?

--------------------

Being concerned about the Mexican situation, to me, is something completely different as believing in the self-inflated importance of the BK. But I noticed the self-inflated importance of the professor. It was there absolutely. I did pose enough critical questions. I did not simply took what he said for granted. I was more interested in the general ideas behind them. And in the internal dynamics of the BKWSO as far as I could see them . That's what is reflected here in the posts and in relation to the general situation of Mr. Fox and his dealing with the BKWSO.

I also noticed, at the time, that whenever the professor was around (2 times only) the teacher as well took giant steps in the doctrine. They were definitely augmenting each others influence like two fundamentalists magnets. And probably they were leaving out the failed "short-term-predictions" they had to witness over the years. No one, not having first heard them before, would notice. They were BKs and surely not all of a sudden had become "saints".

But the question remains, "Which "personal predictions" to leave out in order to avoid mistakes and blunders when you talk about the future?", from my point of observation, at the time.

????

I think hard to say because to leave out an unlikely "prediction" might incorporate the missing of a big hit jackpot. There's my problem with it.

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Pink Panther wrote, "the BKs like to think they are influencing these people they are in fact merely hanging onto the coat tails of the rich, famous and powerful."

I hope it won't be so that one day the reversed situation will take place. Not that I totally believe this. It is more that I think it's good to be alert . But I can imagine the BK having more influence, however undesirable that seems to me.

At the center, at the time, the BKs were discussing the fact that they did not had much more influence upon politicians once they reached their desired goal in politics. I asked them if they wanted them to behave like a puppet on a string, which wasn't the case. But a bit more sympathic to BK-ism they hoped upon (and probably even more !!).

My opinion is that the BK-linking up to politicians in power places will eventually diminish as it is simply to difficult to approach them and to keep approaching them and the scene is too complex and changes to much. But I cannot help remarking that at present they are in contact with them, whatever that "contact" may be.

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Pink panther wrote:"Ask any of these people what their main religious belief, influence or philosophy is and I assure you they will not say BK."

I think politicians wear many masks according to the situation required. That's what makes them politicians in the first place. But even if the above is true, then there is a time in their career where some politicians turn toward the BK to move on The Ladder which is significant to them because the BKs absolutely try to take advantage of that situation.

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But all still definitely worth hearing about and deconstructing.

I think the BKWSO needs to be deconstructed. That is my opinion. Or at least a thorough going reform. If only we could reach to that point.

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Concerning the "Golden Age Deal" (If I may call it that way) my last remark at that post dealing with he subject, was this one :
"To me it seemed quite unreal and not true what they said. But this was their point of view."

That's how I look at it, unreal and not true. I heard about this tale a few weeks before I made the decision to leave the cult. I questioned the teacher the next lesson about the situation. She was very resistant to talk about it. She mentioned vaguely something about "a senior". Maybe she heard the story from him/her. Then the teacher said she had to continue with her program and there was no time to discuss the matter further. Same situation the next lesson. Even back then I said I found the idea very unreal.

Shortly after, I left the cult. I had made the decision that I did not wanted to be with the BKs anymore. Not even to hang around to find out more about this "Golden Age deal". I felt repelled by BK-ism (in a particular the "corruptive interaction with politicians" and the "destruction paradigm" painted more clearly then).

I put the description here, however, to show the teachers' saying. I find it weird that a teacher that has been with the cult for 14 years told this philosophy (was that all due to "chinese whispering"? (*)). If it is not Gyan (does that mean spiritual knowlegde given by BapDada ??) I think she ought to know that. Why was she telling it and no one objected?
I think personally that she was sometimes (totally) out of touch with what she was really telling.

(*) I don't know that term, does it mean that a story changes each time you pass it by to another ??

There was no such thing as echoing around, though. I asked the question and the teacher responded directly to me. If it was distorted it was done by her or she got the message in a distorted way from others.

My problem with the term "Gyan" is that it changes over time. I have read somewhere that a first the Om Mandli believed the nature of the soul was of "seed-form" which was later on "modified" to "egg-shaped" (or something alike). So what yesterday wasn't Gyan, today is and tomorrow may not be anymore so.

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Concerning the "encyclopedia", Kmanaveen, there are several things told in the posts already. I wanted to visit Madhuban and see this encyclopedia with my own eyes but was refused a visit by the BKs. Reason was that I was a beginner and not yet ready to go there, according to them. (Looking back now, I am glad I couldn't go there but that's something else).

You asked for an example.

Please read the 1st Nov 2013 post (with photo's of them both) about Mr. Aznar and Mr. Bush (jr) and in respect to Gulf War II (started in 2003). This was discussed at the center in 1991 when Gulf War I had made it's appearance. They mentioned that there would be another Gulf War II, in which Mr. Bush (jr) would play an important role.

Mr Bush (jr) was not involved in Gulf War I as President of the USA; (that was his Father). Neither was it sure yet that Mr. Aznar would become prime minister (from 1996 - 2004) of Spain in the 1990-1992 period when I joined the BKs and heard about this. But they discussed already the desired interaction between Mr. Aznar and Mr. Bush (jr) and also in respect to Gulf War II (and also that of Mr. Fox/Mexico).

The fact that I heard about these "predictions", while attendants discussed the outcome of them amongst each other, doesn't mean that they were spoken in that year. They just as well may have been of earlier date. I have no insight into that matter.

I am tending to think that the soul that calls itself Baba did not do these "predictions" to safeguard the peace or to quench the animosity in that region but just poured even more oil upon an open fire.


All "predictions" or rather, as I see it now, "facts-they-discussed-about" at the time, concerned the individual lives of politicians (ambition and major life-event based) have become truth. Not very spectacular anymore. Just common facts now (the man in the street, not being disrespectful, can tell you as well) and (very) hypothetical at the time. I don't know if the BK-godspirit still gives "personal predictions". And maybe it were just the occasinal few big hits and jackpot runs of a profession gambler.

If I look at BK-doctrine as a whole I see a mixture of truth, absolutely not true and desired and manipuated truth. The last may be the biggest part of it.


-------------------
ex-l wrote:"Did he [the professor] leave the BKs?

Unfortunately I don't know if that strange individual I refer to as "the professor" has left the cult, ex-l. He told me he wanted to set up a sort of "study group" where students and ex-politicians could meet, as he has successfully done. He also told me that following this project, he was thinking about doing another thing, something else which he did not describe. Maybe outside of the BK. It may be that he has left the cult but I do not know for sure. I was only 1.5 years with the BK (visted them roughly 50 times).

Last thing I need to mention comes from the Musselwhite report.
Brother Graham is here referring to the Self Management Leadership program as “the Oxford Program” because the program is administered by a separately chartered non-profit organization called the Oxford Academy. The Oxford Academy is headquartered in London, England.

(Brother Graham being a pseudonym; he is not the professor meant in these posts).

The professor told me at the time he wasn't a professor in strict sense because of this reason. Maybe he was a researcher at Oxford and teaching at this "Oxford Academy".

In addition, I can say that as I asked him at the time, he told me he was not married and felt no need to do so and start a family. I don't know if he has changed his mind later on.

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ex-l wrote:"They'd be lining up to take turns hitting the button just to fulfil what they Baba has been telling them all along"

Maybe to show what ex-l means.

Something like this ...?



" ... And everyone is clapping at the back. And everyone is laughing", the comment says.
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Pink Panther

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post19 Nov 2013

Thanks Misty for the considered post.

Yes, "chinese whispers" means how things change as they are told and retold from one person to another. It's an ignorant racist name for a game played at a parties. First person whispers a phrase or sentence as softly as they can into someone’s ear, no repeating allowed even if they don’t hear it properly (that’s the idea), they then whisper to the next person and so on. When it goes the full circle the last person says what they think the message was, the first person says what they originally said, and everyone laughs. Unfortunately it happens in all kinds of situations, is the basis of many an urban myth or popular misconception. And leads to Gyan ”evolving” or blurring itself into many competing interpretations within the BK solar system. Very few at this stage in their history can discern straight (orthodox) Gyan from speculation anymore (and those that can, won’t).

The seniority of a teacher does not guarantee they understand the Gyan deeply. Being able to do as one is told, to follow disciplines etc is often the path to ”promotion”. Wisdom, experience understanding are secondary. There was a centre here where the 50 year old mothers told me at the time how they resented being told how to prioritise their lives by a "twenty something” baby-faced, repressed young homosexual man, a recent university graduate with little other experience, no work experience, but who was made the centre-in-charge.

As to who’s riding on whose coat-tails - the BKs are like the onion they so detest, nothing underneath when layers are peeled away. Sure VIPs will go along occasionally. Like many of us, it's the fascination to explore ”eastern mysticism” and the facade they present is ”respectable” but, in all the years, very few do more than dip their toes, hardly any ”top knot” VIPs have taken up the full BK life and belief system for any length of time (I cannot think of one of any real celebrity, those who I can think of come and go in a matter of a few months, or a few years at most).

Sure, the introductory meditation technique they teach is, in it’s simplicity, quite effective (and, damn it, if they just were about that and didn’t pretend to ”own” it or to have invented it, they’d be OK) - but they inflate it all with their exclusive theology, their (mis)interpretation of dvaita philosophy, shallow karma philosphy & cosmology (like your anecdote about trading off Golden Age status for fame now).

It is all this, the very things that differentiate them, that they hide from VIPs, indeed, from all but those who’ve ”tasted” something in those initial experiences, hunger for more and are willing to accept the more & more of the package to get it. These ones get groomed into addiction, drip fed disciplines and dazzled with ”esoteric” Gyan (I know, I used to do the rationing and the dazzling).

Very few VIPs have the time, and anyway, they get their ”buzz” of ego polishing in other ways, like general fame and attention, and their work. (BK meditation is, in fact, a most subtle form of ego polishing, a most ”royal Maya” for those with "relevance deprivation" - a cynical way of saying ”those who feel they are more (special) than the world recognises”).

Offtopic: Note to Admin. That Youtube video should be on the front page of this site! Or at least the start of its own topic - a factual, undeniable document of the BK doctrines, mediumistic practices and the apocalyptic goals & beliefs.
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ex-l

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post19 Nov 2013

Misty wrote:(Brother Graham being a pseudonym; he is not the professor meant in these posts).

Let's be honest here. "Brother Graham" in the Richard Musselwhite paper "Possessing Knowledge" is Brian Bacon and I think "Sister Daisy" is Jayanti ... which made me laugh. I always think of her as "Daisy" now ... such an innocent, sweet, (stupid) feminine name.

I only have a little time to respond today but the response I would like to give is that the Brahma Kumaris interest in rich and powerful men ... at all level of their cult ... is no different from another class of woman's interest in rich and powerful men.

They can dress it up as they wish but, 99%, the motivation is the same.

Misty, you raise important issues about the true nature of the BK god spirit and, in doing so, point in a direction that others have come to accept before you ... that the god spirit of the Brahma Kumaris ... if there is one ... is not benign but literally evil. You question whether it is, in essence, pouring petrol on the flames and I do not quite know if it is yet ... simply because its influence is currently so small and weak ... but it is persistent constantly dripping like water on a stone with the same message for 70 years now. Destruction ... Destruction ... Mega Destruction ... enculturating 100,000s of individuals not just accept the idea but be scheming and complicit with it.

You also raise an important ethical question about the increasing pattern of enforced Brahma Kumari trainings being put into place in police forces, governments and corporations as part of a stealth campaign of influence.

How paradoxical when the Brahma Kumaris are on face value so condemnatory of the "impure, vicious world" ... that they then align themselves with the most impure and vicious elements of it; right wing, establishmentary, militaristic and commercial/corporate.

In short, the sh*t of the world that is destroying it literally as we write.

The BKs who monitor this discussion forum always mock and over-react to the world "evil" attempting to portray it falsely but I think it is a world which requires a bit of a revival and recovery from Hollywood type misuses.

Please allow me to quote the dictionary definition of it again ... "profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity, esp. when regarded as a supernatural force".

Although the BKs do not, yet, list themselves amongst the Hitlers, Saddam Husseins and George Bushes of the world ... their leaders are certainly profoundly immoral and wicked and would certainly be on a par with, say, the right wing, repressive and bigoted imams of the Islamic world. Would I allow the Dadi Jankis of their world any influence in any organization ... no way. The woman is profoundly deluded and dishonest and amoral.

How can I say all this with such certainty? Well, for me, the degree of their immorality and wickedness is bases on their self-value and high claims ... they claim to be the highest spiritual beings and "instruments of God".

If you are a mindless thug, a power greedy goon a member of a racist, apartheid government or criminal gang ... that is just what you are. You are not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes. You are what you say you are and believe. That, for me, if fine ... you do what you say whether anyone likes it or not and pay the price when it comes. However, the Brahma Kumaris ... the Kirpalani Klan as I call them ... are entirely the opposite. They spend their lives in a holy disguise ... a mask of godliness ... while pulling on all the religious strings and manipulating individuals souls to achieve their secretive, hidden aims.

They are even secretive, dishonest and manipulative towards their own donors and financiers and treat them with real utter disrespect ... with a (mostly) smiling and pleasant face, of course.

If they were just honest and straight up and admited, "well, we are a sort of international criminal gang that operates a number of legitimately looking fronts under the guise of religion, and is seeking to inspire or give courage to the military scientists to wipe out humanity through nuclear and civil wars" then fair enough ... they would be being honest.

But instead they are not and they are fooling themselves and others to believe they are doing all their social climbing ... and finance it ... on the basis and thrill of it being, "god's secret mission"!

I have no idea what BapDada really is, whether it is the ghost of the demented Lekhraj Kirpalani or Om Radhe, or just Dadi Gulzar's imagining of it, but I am convinced its nature is parasitical of the Brahma Kumari following and evil in that it wants to destroy humanity.

The only way in which is might not be literally evil ... perhaps even the greatest evil outclassing all others ... is if the "Destruction" and annihilation of 7 billion human being can, somehow, be consider "for the great good".

The idea that this "greatest good" might be the Kirpalani Klan inheriting heaven on earth for 2,500 years as part of their unholy, Faustian pack with this spirit being is laughable in the extreme. But that is Brahma Kumarism.

The reason I reference Brian Bacon directly by name is that I think he has to be held responsible for empowering them and his quoted comments show how sucked up into it all he was. And I wonder who was spinning his PR if Musselwhite was lead to believe that Brian Bacon was the most influential person in the BKWSU outside of the Dadis?

Perhaps it was true ... and where did it get him? Heaven on earth (wealth and comforts) with an attractive Brahma Kumari wife (and only a BK or an ex-BK would understand how hypocritical that is ... 100%).

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post19 Nov 2013

ex-l wrote:The BKs who monitor this discussion forum always mock and over-react to the world "evil" attempting to portray it falsely but I think it is a world which requires a bit of a revival and recovery from Hollywood type misuses.

Please allow me to quote the dictionary definition of it again ... "profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity, esp. when regarded as a supernatural force".

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke.


Initially when I was in the BKs, I thought I was partly preparing for something outside our control. The forces of politics and corruption , especially in the days of the cold war, made it seem inevitable that global war would unleash the tens of thousands of nuclear warheads then prepared. The USA peaked at 30,000 warheads, the USSR had 45,000 at their peak.

There was some kind of ”merciful synchronicity” in the Gyan, vinash would not happen until the right number of BKs were ready (as per the video below of BapDada) and I was definitely going to be one of them. But very senior BKs who’d live their whole lives waiting for the day, had passed away in old age. And even the next generation were startign to kick the bucket. (so, would the BKs ever be ”ready"?)

But the underlying mythos of the BK culture has changed. Where once it was an act of divine mercy - that god has incarnated for preparing long, lost, innocent bystanders (us) who’d then ”serve others” to help them get ready too - it now seems that a more schizoid cult-ure and teaching has developed.

Coinciding with the patronising straw man (distraction) advisory about ”not worrying about transformation” or ”a date”, there’s an ”inspiring” going on, to "push the button” or get others to do it, that is, to become the active agents of that evil, rather than passive observer bystanders, doing all they can to be ”good" men but who’re doing nothing, minding their own business (literally!), preparing themselves for things both outside their control but accepting that it’s they who’ll profit. Schadenfreude plus!

Most of today’s BKs will deny it, or obfuscate. But I have read on official BK forums, many BKs have rationalised this kind of thing to a great extent. They've created a mindset of hopelessness of the world progressing, and accepting a fate dictated by others, with the aim of picking up the crumbs afterward, like scavengers following a marauding army picking the gold teeth and rings from the dead.

But even if a BK still thinks the way I used to, that it is something that is outside the BK control, that the BK life is partly about preparation for "going home”, that the deaths of billions is regarded as a necessary evil to be accepted is, at the very least "good men doing nothing”.

These ”good men” are not only "doing nothing”, they chant ”bring it on Baba”.

If a BK really convinces a politician of the BK doctrine, will that politician try as hard to uplift the impoverished, remove corruption, work for justice and equality etc, or will they, as a BK, merely go through the motions, cut ribbons, give speeches whilst doing whatever they can for the BK PR machine?

Evil is less evil when it is obvious, hence easier to avoid. But when the wolf wears sheep’s clothing ...
I do not believe the BKs have the influence they think they do nor their scenario of ”transformation”, so their evil is not going to be practically expressed in the way I’ve suggested. Their evil manifests in the way they distort, even destroy, so many lives of those that come to believe them.
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post21 Nov 2013

Don't tell me The Professor is Frank Whaling. That would be a blast! But I think it is Whaling. RIGHT?
It was set up by a professor who had travelled Latin America and Asia to find answers for reoccurring and similar theological and or cutural phenomena or something like that.


http://journals.cambridge.org/action/di ... id=6915524
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post21 Nov 2013

Misty - this is Frank Whaling - does he look like the ”professor”?
Image
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post22 Nov 2013

In the run up to the 2004 election, the George W. Bush presidential campaign received more than $380,000 from the Coca-Cola company and its affiliates.

This is getting more interesting.

Bush Administration's pushing of Coca-Cola in India smacks of economic imperialism

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washin ... ican-amigo
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ex-l

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post22 Nov 2013

Yes, it is ... many of the corporate whore rip off BKs boast about having done training sessions for Coca Cola, and other such right wing, exploitative, health and environment damaging American corporations, on the CVs/websites.
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post26 Nov 2013

Thank you Pink Panther, ex-l and jann for your posts.There are clear views and thoughts there included.

I was surprised by Pink Panthers explanation of the "obedience based promotion system" within the BK. What I also don't understand is that the central leading figures of the BK don't block out other, alternative versions of Gyan and even don't seem to be interested in doing so. Is it all money and influence that they are after (?) and is everything okay as long as the cashflow comes their way ?

Now about the "professor". The excerpt reminds of the dazzling and (still) hard to comprehend story the professor told me at the time. As I asked him why he was making all this efforts for his research, he told me that he was searching for evidence of The Cycle and he did this via, among others, Rama. I remember that well.

Another thing, I remember, was that the professor told me he was a reverend as well. It confused me because
I thought he was a surrendered BK. He told me his double identity, as I may call this so, gave him the advantage of being able to mix among people of other beliefs as well.

The age of the man matches with what number of age (and appearance) the professor would have right now.

And, lastly, I recognize details of the face of the professor as seen in the photo adjacent.

So, yes, I think the "professor" I met was Frank Whaling.

Thanks Jann for the searching and efforts made !

But I wonder, why is it a blast ??
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ex-l

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post27 Nov 2013

Misty wrote:I was surprised by Pink Panthers explanation of the "obedience based promotion system" within the BK. What I also don't understand is that the central leading figures of the BK don't block out other, alternative versions of Gyan and even don't seem to be interested in doing so.

You've obviously not heard of or spoken to the PBKs then ... or any of the other splinter groups in India. Prior to the internet, which has complicated things for BK Central Control, there was a complete information block, character assassination programme on them and even since the internet we've heard of bannings, banishings, threats, bogus legal and police reports, kidnapping and beatings which have hospitalised individuals.

What you may mean is that in classroom discussion the BK leaders may adopt a passive role allowing individuals to offer suggestions as long as it does not go too far ... but they maintain the official version and take it all back to a meditation experience anyway?

I would say there's a sort of tolerance towards what is generally called "Brother's Maya", or something like that but, as there can be no definite scientific answers one way or the other and Baba would never be doubted, non-orthodox view are generally just allow to run out of their own accord. You accept and surrender or you will probably leave.

What disappoints me about the so called BKWS University is the lack of any substantial thought ... you'd think a multi-million dollar University could get published even a few scientific papers about its beliefs? Where's even the inhouse magazine of thought? All you get instead is PR, PR, PR ... "look at us standing next to these famous people".
Another thing, I remember, was that the professor told me he was a reverend as well ... I recognize details of the face of the professor as seen in the photo adjacent. So, yes, I think the "professor" I met was Frank Whaling.

Here's Frank Whaling doing PR on the BKWSU PR website and from Frost's Scottish Who's Who:
Rev. Professor Frank Whaling

Reverend Professor Frank Whaling, BA, MA, PhD, ThD, FRAS, FABI, FWLA, FIBA, FICS. Emeritus Professor of the Study of Religion, Edinburgh University; Methodist Minister; b. 5 Feb 1934

Education: Kings School, Pontefract; Christ's College, Cambridge; Wesley House, Cambridge; Harvard University.

Methodist Minister, Birmingham Central Hall, 1960-62, Faizabad and Banaras, North India, 1962-66, Eastbourne, 1966-69.

Teaching Fellow, Harvard University, 1972-73; appointed Lecturer, Study of Religion, Edinburgh University, 1973. Theyer Honor Award, Harvard, 1970-71; various Reseach Awards; Chair, Scottish Churches China Group, 1985-93; Chair, Edinburgh Inter-Faith Association, 1989-99; Director, Edinburgh Cancer Help Centre, 1987-91; Chair, Scottish Inter-Faith Symposium, 1987-94; Consultant, World Without Hunger (charity); Chair, Edinburgh International Centre for World Spiritualities, 1999; Chair, Scottish Council of the World Parliament of Religions, 2000; Executive, Scottish Inter-Faith Council, 2002. Visiting Lecturer and Professor, USA, China, South Africa, India, England.

The videos on the BKs' site are probably best as they give you his voice as well, but here's another photo.

What on earth was he saying about "Rama"? Who did he think Rama was? Did he self identify as a BK to you? How do you think he fitted into the BK machine and what sort of services was he providing for the BKs?

Thank you for filling us in with this information. It's a fascinating insight.

Frank_Whaling_Brahma_Kumaris.jpg
Frank_Whaling_Brahma_Kumaris.jpg (30.57 KiB) Viewed 7485 times
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