A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Misty

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post05 Dec 2013

Thank you ex-l for your reaction.
In the last post ex-l wrote:" You've obviously not heard of or spoken to the PBKs then ... or any of the other splinter groups in India. Prior to the internet, which has complicated things for BK Central Control, there was a complete information block, character assassination programme on them and even since the internet we've heard of bannings, banishings, threats, bogus, legal and police reports, kidnapping and beatings which have hospitalised individuals"

No, I have not heard of that. In the time that I was with the BK, there was talk of a schism that had happened at a very early time in the history of the BK. The "splinter group" (probably being the PBK) was no more allowed to gather with the BK because "they disturbed the meetings". No details were given and reading ex-l's comment I feel convinced the whole thing is twisted (Are there any reports of it on this site ? I would like to read some of it ).

At the time I only heard that "the splinter-group" did not receive the "gift" of being able to read new Murli's anymore. I protested against that, in vain. Then I asked whether I could speak to them and maybe see if the two groups could pacify and come together again but the teacher could not give me an address. This was the pre-internet era, so the information was difficult to retrieve and I did not succeed, at the time, in doing that. The teacher, however, said that even if I would be able to reach "the other group, which wasn't even given a name" and if I succeeded in speaking to them and if some individuals would be willing to join the BK, they would still not be welcome and permitted to enter. Even then I found the whole situation saddening.
" What you may mean is that in classroom discussion the BK leaders may adopt a passive role allowing individuals to offer suggestions as long as it does not go too far ... but they maintain the official version and take it all back to a meditation experience anyway ? "

Yes, that's what I mean. I saw this happening only once but it was enough to turn me away from BK-ism. What irritated me so much that afterwards the discussion was closed. It happened in regard to the phenomena that I described as "the Golden Age Deal". I think the hypocrisy is that the BK obstructs groups and individuals and alternative thinking but lets obviously ridiculous ideas running around (maybe for years). Fantasy's like that "Golden Age Deal" do well to no one and lay another extra claim on adherents, already walking with an overload.

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I have listened to a few of the video's you have enlisted with Professor Whaling.

I remember the deep voice of the professor, Mr. Whaling. But the message he sends out I did not and don't like at all. Also Mr. Whalings position in the Cancer Help Centre was mentioned.
"What on earth was he [Mr. whaling] saying about "Rama" ? "

Very little information was given at the time about Rama, both by the teacher and by Mr. Whaling. The teacher told me that Mr. Kirpalani wouldn't play the role of Rama in the Silver Age and that was why he was not important to the BK.

The professor, Mr. Whaling, told me that he was searching for evidence of The Cycle. And he was concentrating on Krishna. He was looking for the tomb of Krishna but that was difficult because Krishna died in a city, later overflowed by seawater (i.e. the sea near "Dvarka"; there are Youtube video's about it, if one is interested, and some claim to actually have found the historical place). Rama however was killed on land (at least that is what they told me) and the professor, Mr. Whaling thought it would be easier to find clues regarding the place where he died.

He also told me Rama was executed and they called this a service ? I think there is a lot more to be told about Rama. But they just focused on this one aspect. I thought the whole scene was so disrespectful. For millions of people in Asia Rama is an important God ... Also the only reason why Krishna is important to the BK seems to be that he is, according to them, the presumed reïncarnation of Mr. Lekraj, another mutilation to an Asian beloved God.
"Did he [Mr. Whaling] self identify as a BK to you ? "

He told me he was not within the BK which I found quite strange because he was actually helping them along the way and they supported him (morally). But he told me to be not totally infiltrated or incorporated in the BK made it more easy for him to approach other interesting individuals (VIP's) and move about freely. And it seemed to me this was his choice.
How do you think he [Mr. Whaling] fitted into the BK machine and what sort of services was he providing for the BKs ?

I think he was and is (at least) in the inner circle of the European section of the BK.

He also does promote them by PR business. Regarding "the students vs. ex-politicians meetingfora" he promoted, I tend to say that Mr. Whaling was also sort of an engineer of new idea's. I don't know if always he was really taken seriously though. I can only base my opinion on the two "meetings" I had with Mr. Whaling in class and upon future developments of his plans and uttered "predictions".

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At the time Mr. Whaling told me that, when he was working at the Oxford University, he also had the ability to publish freely. He used this 'carte blanche' to also print a lot of (probably) BK PR material. He told me that once he had ordered hundreds if not thousands of booklets (or something alike). The worker started early in the morning but the press had to be kept printing the whole night through (until noon ?) next day for printing all the material.

I asked if Mr. Whaling was already printing material he needed for the Mexican SML project (25,000 course members). He answered, "Yes, sort of, and some extra just to keep in store for the BK in case they need it."

"And if they don't need it ?", I asked.

"Oh, then we will just throw it away", he answered.

I told him I thought it was a fraud and that he had to seek other ways to publish. He told me he had tried but it was difficult because no one wanted to print it. (He couldn't afford it also himself and the BK would not support him!). He told me it wouldn't matter though, multiplying via the Oxford University because no one at the university would ask and the man in charge of printing it all wouldn't see the difference anyway (between university stuff and "university stuff").
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Misty

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post05 Dec 2013

In regard to the situation in Mexico I came across the following information :

Mrs. Anabel Hernández a 42-years old Mexican journalist has written a book named : "Los Señores del Narco" in 2010 (in English published under the title " Narcoland : The Mexican Drug Lords And Their Godfathers").

In short and relating to the thread, the information is as follows :

Anabel Hernández, journalist and author, accuses the Mexican state of complicity with the cartels, and says the 'war on drugs' is a sham.

Whoever thinks that the Mexican government does everyting to stop the drugsgangs is wrong, according to her. The Mexican research journalist claims that two former governments, those of Mr. Vicente Fox (2000-2006) and those of last year's ended Mr. Felipe's Calderón's (2006-2012) were on good terms with one of the biggest drug cartels of the country. Mrs. Hernández says she got the information from anonymous informers. Under the guise of a war against drugs they (ie, the government) fought against seven other big drug cartels.

It was during the regency of Mr. Fox, only one month after he had taken regency (December 2000), that a notorious drugs godfather escaped miraculous from one of the best garded prisons of Mexico (in 2001)."

Here is a tv-interview with Mrs. Hernandez: Narcoland: Journalist Braves Death Threats to Reveal Ties Between Mexican Government & Drug Cartels

She tells, in the Observer, in a conclusive paragraph. 'Mexico's war on drugs is one big lie'
The violence and the cartels are not the disease. They're a symptom of the disease, which is corruption. The cartels cannot operate without the support of officials, bureaucrats, politicians and police officers – and bankers to launder their money. These people let the "narcos" do what they do and they are the issue, this is the cancer.

In the Texas Observer : Anabel Hernandez on Mexico’s Lost Drug War and Her New Book Narcoland, she tells in a conclusive paragraph :
What is happening in Mexico because of corruption can happen in other places, too. If the institutions are weak and the government is involved and if people don’t say anything about it, then they will have another Mexico.

The information shows that Mr. Fox, while he was President, was at least sideways involved in drugs related matters, as was suggested by Professor Whaling, in the 1991-1992 period, when I met him twice.

During the presidency of Mr. Fox, the BKs were also doing their business (the massive SML programme) with him. Even if the BKs were not aware of the fact that Mr. Fox was in fact creating/fuelling a drugs war (with devastating results) in his own country, at least the professor, Mr. Whaling, was aware of the fact that Mr. Fox was on friendly terms with people in the drugs scene and had (close) ties with them (as suggested before). He also (fore)told that a drugswar would arise in Mexico. As told before, Mr. Whaling discussed with the Seniors in Madhuban about the dubious origin of the "Amigos de Fox Fund". So the BK leading section could have known who they were doing business with, but I guess that even if they knew, they would not care about it.

A few quotes from ealier posts :
He professor [Mr. Whaling] however narrated that he knew that some of Mr. Fox' friends came from the drugs dealing scene. He was doubtful whether they hadn't also contributed in the fundraising.
Mr. Fox assured [Mr. Whaling] (/professor) that those friends were not involved. But, on the other hand, absolutely wouldn't want to know where the funds were raised either ... And Mr. Fox had announced publicly, promised on beforehand, before even running for president, that during his would-be presidency the drug-issue wouldn't be touched....

I think Mr. Fox was lying to Mr. Whaling/the professor and wanted to protect his fundraisers in this way.
It seems like --- as long as it benefits the BKWSO, it is not so much of the of a problem where the money comes from.

I see no reason to change that statement.

My guess is that even after having resigned from presidency, Mr Fox is probably still in contact with the BK maybe via this : "academic forum" of other world leaders called "The Vicente Fox Forum of World Leader. Or maybe via the similar forum in Guanajuato, Mexico at "Centro Fox".

My opinion is that, even if the BK was not aware of the state of art at the time, at least now they could know. I think it is sad that an orgnisation proclaming a new world stands alongside a corrupt politician that has bonds within the drugs world. What kind of new world will that bring ?
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Misty

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post05 Dec 2013

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Pink Panther

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post06 Dec 2013

Re: Frank Whaling’s ”They use the money for good things ” and ”They do not spend much on themselves”

I ask -

Q. Movement of money usually leaves some trace, what there is to show for it. Is what "shows for it" indicative of the amounts?

A. 1. Real estate holdings - these are probably the single biggest tangible product of this ‘energy transfer”. An international audit of titles, both directly and indirectly under their control (in others’ names but used by BKs without rent etc) would be interesting.

2. The number of people not working and earning income for themselves. Even if it’s simple food, basic board and simple clothing, plus utilities used (gas, electricity, phone, internet. mobiles, cars) multiply that minimal cost per person x the numbers of ”dependant” people in the organisation worldwide.

As to Misty’s other post re: corruption

Although I cannot speak to this matter particularly, I know from direct conversations with Seniors in my time, that the general rule is ”play the game”.

That is, for example, if bribery is commonplace, we are disadvantaged by not participating in it. If petty theft from your employer is commonplace and ”acceptable”, take advantage of it for ”service” - a divinised use for paper clips and photocopiers is excuse enough.
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ex-l

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post06 Dec 2013

Whaling just repeats the BKs' own PR and excuses verbatim. I can imagine him going, "what do you want me to say?" off camera.

Note the increasing use of business class air travel, the 5 star hotels and retreat centers, the Rolls Royces and Mercedes they are driven around in.

The comparison that should be made is not with, say, Western standards of living but with how they would have been living in India when their money ran out had they not turned their religious cult into a business to live off. They would have been living like starving beggars, or like the pitiful widows dumped in Benares.

Whaling should be held to account for what this "good" is. As far as I can see, beyond feeding, clothing, keeping warm and entertaining the cult's leaders, 95% going on PR and self publicity. I don't see that as automatically "good". He's an idiot to put his face to such statements.
Misty wrote:My opinion is that, even if the BK was not aware of the state of art at the time, at least now they could know. I think it is sad that an orgnisation proclaming a new world stands alongside a corrupt politician that has bonds within the drugs world. What kind of new world will that bring ?

I've come to the conclusion that the Brahma Kumaris have little to no ethics whatsoever, indeed that they have little value for the concept.

When I use the term "Brahma Kumaris" I mean the leaders and their inner circles, I don't consider the majority of the followers to be "BKs" although they would like to think they are, they are just "followers of" ... the ones I call, 'the Kirpalani Klan' ... and they too operate like an underground mafia which runs numerous fronts; plausible looking facades.

What matters for the Brahma Kumaris are not niceties like 'right' and 'wrong' and 'integrity' ... but expedience. And this is the key to understanding the Brahma Kumaris ... expedience; whatever that works to gain whatever it is they want to achieve. Therefore to get into bed, metaphorically, with power but corrupt right wing politicians, exploitive and destructive corporations etc is nothing to them but ... expedient ... useful.

What matters is if it, or someone, is useful especially in their rise to power.

Elsewhere Pink Panther writes about how Politics and Religion are hard to separate. In the old days, the Brahma Kumaris openly promoted themselves as a "politico-religious cult" ... or religio-political ... although the word they used might have been movement or dynasty.


Going back to what you write about the individual you call "The Professor", please allow me to apologies and ask again if you are 100% sure and that you are not confusing memories of other individuals in your report, e.g. Brian Bacon or other (then) leading BK followers?

I have to ask because, so far, I have no other sources that place Whaling in South America or Oxford University. However, in 1980, shortly before he became interested in the Brahma Kumaris, Frank Whaling did write The Rise of the Religious Significance of Rāma.
The professor, Mr. Whaling, told me that he was searching for evidence of The Cycle. And he was concentrating on Krishna. He was looking for the tomb of Krishna but that was difficult because Krishna died in a city, later overflowed by seawater (i.e. the sea near "Dvarka"; there are Youtube video's about it, if one is interested, and some claim to actually have found the historical place). Rama however was killed on land (at least that is what they told me) and the professor, Mr. Whaling thought it would be easier to find clues regarding the place where he died.

He also told me Rama was executed and they called this a service ? I think there is a lot more to be told about Rama. But they just focused on this one aspect. I thought the whole scene was so disrespectful. For millions of people in Asia Rama is an important God ... Also the only reason why Krishna is important to the BK seems to be that he is, according to them, the presumed reïncarnation of Mr. Lekraj, another mutilation to an Asian beloved God.

From a BK point of view, this is all utterly confused nonsense. Even worse than it, it is "Bhakti" ... that is to say, the Hinduism they have a loathing for and see themselves as entirely different from.

According to BKism, none of the Krishnas (the 8 would be Emperors of the Golden Age), nor the Ramas (the Emperors of their Silver Age) would have or could have died in anyway such or remotely suffered. There could be no killing in the BKs' fairy story of heaven (Gold and Silver Age). His ideas aren't even rooted in mainstream Hinduism ("they" ... who? The BKs told you?).


However, I actually do find this part of the story very plausible as this is the way the BKs do operate. They allow such useful individuals to float around ... as long as they "serviceable" ... having their own ideas and indulge them about their mistake ideas non-confronationally in a sort of patronising way, steering them to where they are useful. Often, during this, such individuals are quite besotted by the BKs ... which can include being a little in love with individuals BKs, or in love with an idealised vision of the Brahma Kumaris as a very sincere and earnest religion. A sort of religion they wish individuals in their religion would be. A religion that almost fits their idea of a religion but which is really just using them for whatever they are worth.

They may not believe in BKism at all but idealise BKism. In Whaling's case, and given his interests in world religion and the study of it, I could see how this is so. He has also been given the "royal treatment" by the BKs for sometime so sees a skewed version of BKs to the point of deny other views.

Obviously, from a strict BK point of view, what this "Professor" individual was spouting is nonsense. Perhaps a little interesting if it benefits them ("proof of the Golden Age"), but complete incorrect according to their god spirit's and guru's teachings. However, any archeological remains would not be of their Golden Age ... unless they are going to turn up palaces of gold and diamonds and nuclear powered flying machines from under the sea. If they do, I'll eat my website.


The stuff about the splinter group may also be confusing two separate incidents; there was a very earlier schism back in the 1930/40s when what we call 'The Golden Circle' left (which may have included Dadi Janki Sister as a medium), and in the 1970s when Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs split off from the BKs. They continue to grow.

They may be some connection between the two schisms as the PBKs believe Virendra Dev Dixit was a reincarnation of one of Lekhraj Kirpalani's partners, an elderly man and an early and strict influence upon the Om Mandli but who died in the 1940s.

There are some grounds to believe that elements of that are true. Whaling refused to examine any of that and denies it, repeating the current BK party line that the PBKs are "fundamentalists". Actually, rather than being fundamentalists, I would say the PBK are taking a more metaphorical approach to understanding the religion.

The PBKs accuse the BKs of become power and money hungry and corrupt ... which I absolutely agree with ... and are attempting to stick to the roots of the religion, whereas BK adherents and supporters portray the BKs' corruption and revision as "evolution", despite it being entirely contradictory to their earlier incarnations or hypocritical. The PBKs liken the BKWSU to the India that was over run by Muslims (Mughals) and accuse certain BK leaders of being the roots of fundamentalist Muslims which seems to upset them no end ... but makes sense re their teachings and practises.

There is another forum where BKs and PBKs meeting and discuss. We tried to host such discussion here but it became impossible. There is so much anger and what can only be called hate or derision within the greater BK world towards the PBKs, the conflicts between them became too much.

The BKs certainly have the more fundamentalistic approach to their teachings.

Back to 'The Professor' and Mexico, I am not doubting you but I would very much like to see any evidence that can place Whaling or anyone else within the machinations that went on there. No one on earth could doubt connections between governments and drug cartels.

And no one on earth could doubt the BKs experiencing, as Sindhis in India, of handing corrupt politicians and businessmen.

Looking at the latest incarnation of Oxford Leadership Academy, it's roots in BKism are now totally obscured to outsiders, even where the few individual BKs who are left in it are concerned, e.g. look at the re-marketing of Ken O Donnell and Enrique Simo to name two.

Bacon must be the only individual on earth to have been able to take the Kirpalani Klan for a ride and turn them around to and milk the religion and make a buck of them, instead of the other way around. He must be a very shrewd man indeed. The Sindhis are notorious business people.
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Misty

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post11 Jan 2014

Thank you Pink Panther and ex-l for your replies to the last post.
ex-l wrote:Going back to what you write about the individual you call "The Professor", please allow me to apologies and ask again if you are 100% sure and that you are not confusing memories of other individuals in your report, e.g. Brian Bacon or other (then) leading BK followers ?

I have to ask because, so far, I have no other sources that place Whaling in South America or Oxford University

During my stay with the BKs the only person close to being a BK-VIP that I met was Mr. Whaling. No other "high" BK-officials did I meet, neither was there told the life story of any other BK-VIP's apart from Mr. Lekhraj and Mrs. Pokardas. Even Brian Bacon's name was only mentioned.

Take again in consideration the Rama story, the celibacy, his position at the Edinburgh Cancer Help Centre that was briefly mentioned, his connection with the BK, the fact that the man was also a reverend, his travelling in Asia, who do you think would fit such a profile ? But his face is familiar to me as well as his voice, as I said before. And his twisting of facts was there already at the time. I can give an example about that (after the next paragraph).

Concerning the place where Mr. Whaling worked I can tell the following. Mr. Whaling told me that he gave a few lectures in a theological program (or something alike) at the Oxford University. Over there he came in contact and got interested (and probably involved in) the OLA of Brian Bacon. But his working contract was with another university, that probably being the Edinburgh University. Probably because this working period at the Oxford University was so short, there are no data to be found. Oxford stuck into my mind because we mainly discussed that period.

Concerning South America there is an interesting story to be told and if true, quite astonishing. At least, that is my opinion --- Mr Whaling told me that when he was studying, he had to spend some time practising theology. He choose to go to, if my memory serves me well, a country in South America.

Mr. Whaling was subsequently sent there, according to his wish. He choose to visit a very remote indigenous Indian tribe, deep in the rainforests of South America. This tribe had lived very isolated from society. They, in turn, led him to an even more remote area and more isolated indigenous tribe, whom Mr. Whaling became very interested in.

Mr. Whaling went there with the Bible in his hand ... but came back with a main fundament of BK-ism. What
happened? Mr. Whaling was preaching and telling the tribe about Christian faith and, in the exchange of religion and culture, they told him about their indigenous faith. They happened to have a different time-concept. It was not linear but circular. But the astonishing thing was that they also had the concept of an identically repeating time-drama/cycle. It wasn't set to 5000 years but that was the only difference with BK-ism.

Mr. Whaling became very much interested in this tribe-religion and studied thoroughly instead of spreading his Christian faith as he intentionally was planning to do so. He also asked the names of their Gods. Via phonetics he was later on, being home again, able to link the names of their Gods to Asian religion. That was roughly his story. In this way, he became interested in Asian religions. But he studied the circular time concept of time as well and mentioned other indigenous Indian societies like Mayan and Aztecs.

At the time, it was found quite interesting by the teacher that Mr. Whaling heard about and investigated the circular time concept. Interesting because, as it seemed, he heard about this concept even before the BK god spirit that was then still in it's early days with the Om Mandli, did not even mention that concept. If I am not mistaking, at that time, BapDada wasn't even a concept accepted, and no knowledge was given yet (but only visions).

So we discussed about that strange fact. I asked if Mr. Whaling thought that this indigenous Indian (South American) tribe was actually bearing in their culture the BK-concept of time. He said, he thought so. Then I asked if the root of BK was South American? He told me it could be a remnant from the Golden Age but, contradictory to the central beliefs, that the Goden Era only takes place on the Indian subcontinent (India) there was this indigenous South American tribe. So the conclusion was that they were there as well, in the Golden Era. But that was a strange aberration. And even stranger was the fact that they had preserved this knowledge for 5,000 years.

(And they had no writing-tradition, if I remember well, as Mr Whaling told me). At least this was their conclusion. 'Cause they said it was impossible that this indigenous (South American) Indian tribe would have figured out this philosophy of a circular time-concept-drama themselves.

Then Mr. Whaling told me he had also studied other indigenous Indian (South American and other American) religions and travelled trough Indo-china. So I paraphrased that Mr.Whaling had travelled South America as well as Indochina and Asia. He agreed.

"No", said the teacher. "Mr. Whaing hasn't travelled in South America but only in Indochina and Asia". I was confused. But she repeated sternly; "No South America". So then I turned to Mr. Whaling himself, "Have you been in South America or not?" He rephrased several times, visited South America, studied indigenous cultures of Central America, and a few other alterations ending with, "I have only studied the cultures of South and Central America".

So has he been to South America or not? You tell me. It seemed like he was surpassing the holy ground of the BK-territory and corrected and whistled back by the BK teacher-censor. Or maybe he was only fantasising. But the story of the indigenous Indian tribe was there.
There could be no killing in the BKs' fairy story of heaven (Gold and Silver Age). His ideas aren't even rooted in mainstream Hinduism ("they" ... who ? The BKs told you ?)"

Thank you ex-l. I can accept your comment. To be complete, it was Mr. Whaling telling about Rama's execution and it was the teacher telling about the service this Rama-individual did. She called it a great service and the Rama-individual was something of an anachronism, if I got their explanation well. Is there fairy tale remodelled and reshaped to fit perfection and polish away the nasty parts ?
... If they do, I'll eat my website.

I would say, "Don't do that as it is far to valuable for that". Did you started it?
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post11 Jan 2014

Regarding the evidence that you (ex-l) were asking for.

The process which took place in Mexico was covered under a veil of secrecy. The main factors contributing to it are quite impenetrable.

I have written the PGR twice and told them about the suspicion I have of involvance of the BKWSO with the triangulation process in the election of Mr. Fox and, in particular, the "Amigos the Fox Fund". Regarding the sayings of the professor the BKWSO was involved in that process. If any of the contributors on the list of the "Amigos the Fox Fund" are as well BKs, then that means that the BK (or those adherents) were also involved (at least that's my opinion). It would also mean that the BK, or these individuals linked to the BK, have overruled the Mexican law ... are liable for legal prosecution.

However the PGR has not responded. I would very much like to see the end of their self-imposed "quarantine" but it think there's a threat for them of opening up. Maybe this is due to the strong influence of the drugs cartels in the country and their links with the central covernment.

The link to the PGR is here : http://www.pgr.gob.mx/fepade/

When I was with the BKs, we discussed the evolution of the forthcoming "Amigos the Fox Fund". Mr. Whaling told that even some friends of Mr. Fox that would be in prison, were even buying their future ticket out of it, by participating in that Fund. Their future imprisonment and release were those future facts predicted by the BK god spirit ... probably.

This surprised me most and I asked why the BK would sit alongside imprisoned individuals, have so much interest in these few imprisoned individuals. The teacher then explained to me that the prisoners upon that list were no ordinary criminals but top criminals. However, this surprised me even more as, at that time, I saw the BK as a very pure and sincere organisation.

The teacher then explained to me that top criminals could be very high-ranking souls(?), as seen from the world-drama perspective. Because their early incarnations would have draggled them with a lot of worldly karma ... a theory which astonished me at the time but which I still did not like, set aside that I don't believe it being true. But it was part of their philosophy they told me at the time.

They told me that, Mr Fox was so intimate with some of these criminals that he released some of them shortly after his election. That it would be almost one of his first actions. And so far the only one I have come across, is the godfather of one of the most successful drug cartels in Mexico. He is one of the top criminals of the world.

Do you think that he would easily leak any unnecessary information ? But if Mr. Whaling was right and his sayings (probably predicted by the BK god spirit, well ahead of time, were genuinely) the BK was well aware of what was going on and freely participated. I think it takes immense persistence and courage to break to that barrier and reveal to the open so, if I am right, I think the PGR would be the best chance to get evidence. But I doubt if they will reveal more about that "Amigos the Fox Fund".

Of course, there are other players that know more about the situation but I think they won't hardly open-up. Brian Bacon's Oxford Leadership Academy definitively can bring evidence but it is a fortress wrapped in obscurity. At least that's my perception. Probably now even more than back in 1990 when I joined the BK briefly. At the time, I asked who were involved with the implementation of the training of the officials in Mexico. The teacher could not give names. She could only tell me that the two men working on that case were the same as the ones that did a simular process in Australia. But it wasn't Brian Bacon; that name was said and I checked that for the negative. (Probably) those two men were at the top of that OLA organisation.

They entered the country on a touristic visa. They did not even wanted to be classified as business-travellers, travelled around under a guise. Their purpose was to investigate the possibilities of opening an OLA office in Mexico. They were only interested in the large assignment. I asked about the OLA. Even at the time the teacher couldn't tell me anything about it, more specific than that it was run by Brian Bacon. But it was obscurity. The BK hired them to do a thing they couldn't. The teacher couldn't even explain to me why the BK was inappropriate for the task. Would they (OLA) open up and give evidence ?

Mr. Fox is another thing. Mr. Whaling, or the professor, either way you like, told me the guy was highly suspicious, almost to the point of being paranoid. He never wanted to meet in Mexico with Mr. Whaling. Not even at the airport. Mr. Fox, more than anything, feared being recognised. Even years ahead of his election as president. The two of them could only meet outside of Mexico, not even at an airport as they initially and unintentionally did. What kind of evidence could be derived from him ?

Among the Roman Catholic priests, there are many thousands in Mexico probably. The few contributing, refused going to Madhuban but were willing to carry the "light" of BK-ism into Mexico. I wondered if they really knew what they brought into the country. But how to find those who participated among the thousands of thousands preaching in the country, if not they have retired by now ?

What rests is Mr. Whaling. I think he was quite detailed about the whole process and also, at the time, he was already convinced that it would be, as predicted by the BK god spirit. Perhaps the BK-godspirit told him so, in one of his oracles. For him (Mr. Whaling), it was probaly an intelluctual puzzle that had to be solved. And the serving the BK god spirit, maybe.

And, of course, there's the Seniors in Madhuban. Some of them definitively know about the situation. Will they open up and give evidence ?

But what mostly bothers me is the question, "Why all this secrecy?" We are talking about a business training for high ranking government employees. What is so special about it that it had to be implemented with so many precautions ? Was that because of the involvement of drugs cartels and the surpassing of the Mexican law ?

Of the record, I hope that the many questions do not offend anyone. It is just there to indicate how hard, in my vision, it is to gather more information concerning this matter.
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jann

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post11 Jan 2014

What an amazing story.
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ex-l

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post12 Jan 2014

Misty wrote:Of the record, I hope that the many questions do not offend anyone. It is just there to indicate how hard, in my vision, it is to gather more information concerning this matter.

No offence, this is how we build the bigger ... weirder ... picture. You bring your interesting pieces of the jigsaw to the table, we bring ours ... and then we see how they fit together. And you are correct, the Brahma Kumaris are so secretive, it is quite difficult to do so. I have not found any reference to Whaling's South American involvement so far ... possibly there is a lead to a Congress of International Association for the History of Religions in Mexico (Summer 1995). Would that tie in with your dates?

For me, I separate the leadership ... the Kirpalani Klan ... from the adherents. I don't see the adherents as "the Brahma Kumaris" ... only the inner circles who, mafia-like, operate all these various fronts and campaigns.

Was one of the Australian "Ken O’Donnell"? His biodata (linked to) states, "He successfully trained the group of internal consultants who were responsible for the SML and Strategic Focusing program within the Ministry of Education of Mexico." No mention of his BK involved, that Bacon and he met via the BKWSU, or that the SML programme arose out of BK service or the seemingly revolving door between the two organizations that has served both well. It's interesting to what how their self=promotion has evolved. Ken O’Donnell is more responsible than anyone except a now long ex-BK (Aiden?) for opening up South America for the Brahma Kumaris.
OLA wrote:Ken O’Donnell is renowned throughout Latin America as a best selling author and specialist in leadership development and advanced quality management.

From his base in Brazil he has run consulting and training programs at many large corporations and government departments at federal, state and municipal levels throughout the Americas. These include Dupont-Merck, Fiat, Mercedes-Benz, Goodyear, General Motors, Petrobras, Bank of Brazil, Central Banks of Brazil, Bolivia and Costa Rica and many others. Some of the government departments which have benefited from his advanced quality management work include the ministries of Education, Health, Social Welfare, Finance and Regional Integration in Brazil and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Colombia.

He has also been an official advisor to French governmental agencies such as The National Centre of Space Research in the area of Behaviour & Quality.

Australian-born he is fluent in both Spanish and Portuguese and has written ten books on personal and organisational development that have sold over 300,000 copies.

He is creator of the Self-Management and Quality of Life program that has been run successfully in 29 countries.
He successfully trained the group of internal consultants who were responsible for the SML and Strategic Focusing program within the Ministry of Education of Mexico.

He is a frequent guest speaker at congresses and symposiums throughout the Americas on themes ranging from advanced quality management, the human factor in organisational development and ethics in the workplace. He has conducted course at 20 leading universities throughout the region.

At present he is working on a project with the Brazilian Development Bank in 110 cities throughout the country.

It's funny now but when you look at O'Donnell's Linkedin profile, there is no mention of the BKWSU either ... the OLA provides a perfect cover.
Ken O Donnell

High-level experience in strategic change and culture transformation in all 5 continents

São Paulo Area, Brazil Consultoria de gerenciamento

Visão geral de Ken O Donnell

Vice-chairman, Latin America na Oxford Leadership Academy
Vice-chair for Latin America na Oxford Leadership Academy

Experiência de Ken O Donnell

Vice-chairman, Latin America
Oxford Leadership Academy
Privately Held; 201-500 employees; Consultoria de gerenciamento industry
June 2009 – Present (4 years 8 months)

Vice-chair for Latin America
Oxford Leadership Academy
Privately Held; 201-500 employees; Consultoria de gerenciamento industry
January 2006 – Present (8 years 1 month) São Paulo Area, Brazil
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post13 Jan 2014

Ken O’Donnell is more responsible than anyone except a now long ex-BK (Aiden?) for opening up South America for the Brahma Kumaris.
Ken - Yes. Very much so. Aidan - No, nothing to do with South America.
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ex-l

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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post13 Jan 2014

Pink Panther wrote:Ken - Yes. Very much so. Aidan - No, nothing to do with South America.

What was his name then ... a Scottish Brother, learned Hindi, caused a stir by doing that greatest of brotherly sins ... and growing a beard. Left a long time before all this corporate stuff.
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post15 Feb 2014

Thank you jann, ex-l and Pink Panther for your replies.
ex-l wrote:I have not found any reference to Whaling's South American involvement so far ... possibly there is a lead to a Congress of International Association for the History of Religions in Mexico (Summer 1995). Would that tie in with your dates ?

First of all I need to say that I was only with the BK from 1990 -1992. I met Mr. Whaling only twice. During the second meeting (at the center) I asked him about his future plans. In that time there was being spoken about the Earth Summit Conference (June 1992).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Summit

I asked Mr. Whaling if he was interested to go there. He told me that he wasn't because he expected the conference to be quite crowdy, with little to no opportunity for (silent) diplomacy, networking and interesting interacting.

But then he told me he would like to organize such a conference himself and then linked to, focussed solely on religious matters. I told him that would take a lot of networking etc etc to get it organised but he was quite interested in doing so and organising something alike. (He told me he would be interested to do this kind of thing in Mexico but I cannot guarantee that he did so because I wasn't anymore around at the BK at that time to record). To his vision, however, this conference would be more like an interconfessional, an ecumenical meeting. Maybe this "Congress of International Association for the History of Religions in Mexico (Summer 1995)" is the fruit of his efforts?
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Re: A letter to the President 2 [President Vicente Fox]

Post15 Feb 2014

About finance and revenue :

I wonder what the OLA made out of the trainingcourses they did in Mexico. It was said that there were two courses ordered by Mr. Vicente Fox. The first one was the OLA training, the second one being "the whole strategic focus thing" as described in the Musselwhite report.

Now if I translate "the whole strategic focus thing" in terms of the introduction course (7 days course I believe it is called) then probably this course was given by the BK itself in a "joint venture" with the Roman Catholic priests. Maybe (but not necessarily) it was given "for free". That would mean that the participants as well as the Mexican government did not have to pay for this course.

If I concentrate on the course given by the OLA, the Mexican government must have a record of the expenditure of that course. I guess the amount of money will be enormous.

But if I would make an estimation and calculate prudently what I think is a (ridiculous) low price of $20 a person, then that would make a total of 25,000 x $20 = $500,000. Mr Whaling, at the time, told me the OLA was deeply interested in giving the course because it would bring them a considerable amount of money. He did not tell me how much though, because the deal wasn't made yet. Would $500,000 be a "considerable amount"? Or would it be much more? Maybe a tenfold??

When I asked the teacher at the time (after having made the same above calculation) she told me I undercalculated, that it was a million dollars job, a (5) million dollars job (roughly). Mr. Whaling agreed. Would that be the price-tag?

Then, talking about the BK, even if they participated "for free" their revenue is still quite high, maybe even higher. It consists of the "surrendered possessions" of adherents, free labor and "gifts". What would be their "tag" ?

From the Musselwhite report I learned the following :
(page 154 from the Musselwhite report :)
Richard Musselwhite wrote:Brother Graham confirmed this analysis when he explained : Self Management Leadership [and] Brahma Kumaris knowledge only works with leaders. Believe me about that. I mean, you’ll find out that ... for every 1,000 people that come through the doors of the Raj Yoga [Brahma Kumaris] Center, within two years, there will be ten [staying] ; and those ten are people are destined to follow this, and they are leaders, just by definition and understanding of The Cycle.

So that would mean some new adherents (a few dozens ?) giving (eventually) revenue to the BK ... but not for one year, some would do that for many years ... My guess is that the BK benefitted enormously from the initiating project that would later lead to subsequent new adherents.
ex-l wrote:Bacon must be the only individual on earth to have been able to take the Kirpalani Klan for a ride and turn them around to and milk the religion and make a buck of them, instead of the other way around. He must be a very shrewd man indeed. The Sindhis are notorious business people
Ken O’Donnell is more responsible than anyone except a now long ex-BK (Aiden?) for opening up South America for the Brahma Kumaris.

I am inclined to say that you are right but even if that may be so, money & businesswise, there is the price to be paid by the strict and BK loyal adherents over the years in having their lives damaged, overthrown or destroyed. The OLA is dealing in a very nasty business, according to my opinion, by "facilitating" the BK. I don't think they have much of a moral standard either. That's the sad part of it.

But I guess it would all run dry after some time if not the central motor, being Shiv Baba himself, would stop doing what that "godspirit" is doing : mass-deceiving at global scale.

Still the "success" in Mexico is relatively small in comparising with the process in India. I got a rough idea about that when I suggested to the teacher that the process in Mexico was "quite far advanced". When I questioned this, she told me that the general take-over of power, as foreseen by the BK, would still, first of all, take place in India and later on in other places upon the globe. She told me the process in India was far more advanced. One of the reasons was that it had started there many decades ago. The grip of the BK upon India was deeper and greater and more intense, according to her, than anywhere else.
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