I want my spouse not to believe

Yes, they took a dowry from our family.

I do not know that whether he wants to become totally, or not, but when I asked him about his hostel life he just told me that he was a big drinker smoker and not doing Yoga etc but before marriage his mother asked him to do so and from then he is doing. I just didn’t ask him whether he totally agrees with BK or not, as he never forced me to do so that’s why, but I cannot make a healthy life in this situation.

I think his mother asks him to do so and he is doing he also doing something Bhog etc to the picture of an old age (with red light) person. And they just clipped the same light even on tv, fridge, vehicle, gate etc every where. Seriously, I didn’t ask to my husband whether is believing purity or it is a formal way to impress his mother. But I think so, if his mother stops calling or teaching him like that then he will not. I want to know how can I handle his mother.

Firstly, I was hoping that it is not so much a serious matter. I thought he is doing, let him do, but I won’t. But now I am aware about this. But I think if I will say to his mother to not to speak Murli over phone, he will get angry at me for behaving like this because his mother has total command over him. And also he used to watch TV on mute and playing games on phone when his mother speak Murli. But this will happen only for 2 months. In October, she will come to Delhi and then will teach again, and after that he will do same for the long period. All the day they used to say bababababababa.

You know, sometimes I used to smile on this foolish things that to being an engineer how can he do the same (some old fashioned thing). Actually, I am an engineer too.

You know his mother used to make call between 10 to 10.30 and speak Murli and talk as long as she can so that we could not give time to each other. Firstly, he openned the speaker of phone to let me listen to the same but later that I refused, so not now.

But the more diplomatic situation is that whenever I used to say anything against his family he just become animal like and scream at me.

They took me to Mount Abu just before Golden Night. That time I was not aware and hoping that husband is not also involved in it. And I thought that in her old age, the mother is doing so.

You said

You must stop the mother calling him 100%. That would be the starting point.

But how?

There are a number of things arising here.

Firstly, to become angry, especially as angry as he is, is very "not BK". It is the opposite of what BK says. He should remain sweet and peaceful at all times. That is what it says in the Murli.

So there is some personal psychological problem here and it is very worrying. That is a vice or sin from a BK point of view.

Secondly, it appears that you have been tricked or fooled on two levels.

Firstly, you believed that BKism is just like ordinary Hinduism which accepts others etc. It is not. It is an exclusive mind control cult which believes only it is right, only it is pure, only it has all the answers; and that everyone else is impure, evil, devils even.

They encourage obsessiveness in individuals. They are very persistent like his mother. They are very tricky and manipulative. It is difficult to get a straight answer from them. And once someone is hooked, it is very difficult to get them out of it. They have to decide enough is enough.

Brahma Kumarism is against married life, against human love and sex, against having children. They have stolen your dowry under false pretences. Those are the facts.

Do you think they were only after the money?

In India you have rights under the India’s Anti-Dowry Law, start to study and learn your rights. Your family should not have given a dowry to them, as BKs they should not have accepted. As BKs they should not have married their son, and as a BK, the mother should not be pressuring him to continue. That is from the BK point of view ... so they are not follow BK properly.

I see you have problems because you have asked him to stop his mother from calling and he has become very angry at you. That is unreasonable and that is why I say, learn your legal rights. Study the Anti-Dowry Law, the Hindu Marriage Act, e.g. "Restitution of Conjugal rights and judicial separation". Is there a women's rights group in your city? You might need help and support from such a group and they would know about such rights.

Can I ask you some more personal questions? I apologise for the directness.

Is there attraction between you, or do you think he does not love or even like you now?

Was the marriage consummated and has he stopped having full relationships with you?

It seems you are in the same cage as a tiger now ... and, unfortunately, you are going to have to learn how to be fearless and skilful.

You say, "but how?".

Does that mean you have tried, perhaps indirectly, and he has responded negatively?

Obviously, the way to do it is 'just to do it' politely and directly. Explain it is making you unhappy and destroying your life and the relationship. Perhaps you have to ask him directly if he loves or like you, or whether he wants out of the marriage now. You need to get him to be honest.

I know this will be difficult but you have to set up and "either/or" situation. Either it is marriage *or* it is BK. It cannot be both. And if he choses marriage, then all BK has to stop. That is the only way it will work. If you cannot achieve that, your life will be wasted. Everything BK has to go out of the house, he mother must stop calling up to brainwash him. There must be no discussions about BK. Fullstop.

Trust me, that is the only way. If he refuses, your marriage is finished. I know, you say, "but how?".

BKism is not like Hinduism, although it is designed to appeal to Hindus ... but all the signs are is he is living the life of a BK, e.g. offering food to their Baba etc.

But why? What is the appeal to him? Is it just like a superstition or does he believe? If he believes 100%, then you have a problem. Your marriage is already over.

It seems that some of the problem you have is just "interpersonal" and you need some other practical support near you also, e.g. perhaps from a women's group.

What does your own family say in this matter?

Going to the BKs to tell them to stop interfering in your marriage, and stop the mother interfering in the marriage but if you do, take someone with you. The BKs will, at first, try to use the situation to try and suck you in with nice words. You need to be very strict. They will sit and say nothing but be meditating to try and effect you. They will try and give you prashad to effect you. You need to be very clear and strict.

Consider how to get your dowry money back, make sure that any property you own is in your or joint names etc.

Again, learn your rights and use them. This is the 21st Century now, not 19th.

Let me know what you think or respond to what I have written, and we can continue. Obviously, I am worried he will become abusive towards you, but if he does, you can use it against him.

One different route you might consider is to be *more* of a BK than him ... that is, to "out BK" him. We can give you copies of the BK teachings and you can use them against him, e.g. put up quotes that say things like "Baba says, never get angry" etc. That might make him sick of them!

But tell me, if we put aside the influence of the Brahma Kumaris, do you like this person and do you think it might be possible to have a life with him?

Unfortunately, if he wants to be a BK you will spend your life in a loveless, sexless, childless, house sharing situation and unless the house is in your name, it will go to the BKs, not you. Protect yourself.

Also, be aware, that for him to make love, have sex, even to have a child, is considered the greatest sin and that children are somewhere between a time wasting distract and evil to BKs.

Could the Father of your children think like that?

It may be that the family was just greedy for your dowry. They have certainly deceived you. You will have to work out what their true nature is.

I am sorry.

I want to know how can I handle his mother.

Yes, they took a dowry from our family.

So, next time when she calls you to explain Murlis, ask her is it written in Murlis to take dowry? Is accepting dowry a part of Baba Yoga? Is it not against their belief? Do you pretend to follow the Gyan or is it just other way to spend your time while I keep on doing all household chores? Ask about her integrity in following that path, she do opposite to what she is preaching you to do?

I do not know that whether he wants to become totally, or not, but when I asked him about his hostel life he just told me that he was a big drinker smoker and not doing Yoga ...

So, give him drink or motivate him on account of some event or festive occasion, if he consumes it once again, he will forget BKism completely. Or if he continues, you can ask why is BKism needed at all when he feels happy in his own ways? [I would personally not suggest drink or anything alcoholic for long time though as it can ruin present condition].
Make him believe that he is not at all BK & is not comfortable in it? And how he can do much better without it?

I just didn’t ask him whether he totally agrees with BK or not, as he never forced me to do so that’s why, but I cannot make a healthy life in this situation.

Take necessary steps as soon as possible otherwise he will pressurize you after few years to become a complete BK as I think he is heading towards becoming a pakka BK. To understand the seriousness of current situation yourself, do anything which is against their (BKs) norms in front of him, repeatedly (like cooking without bathing every time, bathing one time is enough) & you will understand his stage in BKism (which is not very clear to you right now). If he gets angry or upset, know that it is a terrible situation approaching to ruin all possible happiness. Later on apologize him that you did so by mistake & will take care in future always.

I think his mother asks him to do so and he is doing he also doing something Bhog etc to the picture of an old age (with red light) person.

Oh, my God ... is it so? Now he is verily under process of becoming pakka BK. When you worship a person (by Bhog etc), meditate on his photo, then naturally all qualities of that person starts coming in you. So, stop your husband in doing so in any way. That person in photo is Lekhraj kirpalani (correct me ex-l , PP if I am wrong). This person has molested many girls in past, which is hidden & kept under wraps by BKWSU.

But I think if I will say to his mother to not to speak Murli over phone, he will get angry at me for behaving like this because his mother has total command over him.And also he used to watch TV on mute and playing games on phone when his mother speak Murli.

Sophie this is what we call deceit. They will make you do everything according to their wish but will not follow anything like that. You have got greater responsibility in keeping yourself away from clutch of BKism & making every other family member free from it too.

But this will happen only for 2 months. In October, she will come to Delhi and then will teach again, and after that he will do same for the long period.

And these two months are more than enough to make her son hypnotized for rest of the year. Effect of that hypnosis will keep on increasing this way. Make her son free from the guilt of not following mother's instruction. Tell him indirectly that if someone's (his mother) likes & care for other person (him), then she would accept the person in whatever form he is. BKism is not needed for that.

If his mother loves her because he follows what he says, then what is her reaction if he does not follow her? One more thing you can do is call your mother & brother-sister, if they are free, in October. Tell them all the on-going problem in detail everyday by mail or phone. They will definitely agree to help you in & can give much better solution to fight BK ghost sitting inside your in-laws heads. But before that, understand everything about BK cult, as without telling everything about it to your parent, you would end up getting any considerable help, rather they may get also influenced by in-laws dedication to BKism.

Your in-laws are doing it because they do not know about the negative stock over there. And also because they believe that Golden Age is approaching fast & preparation is needed, so doing baabaabababab al the time. These are some crazy concepts BKs give & followers believe it without giving it a second thought.

All the day they used to say bababababababa.

Start chanting Om or anything else when they do this. Ask them what is problem in doing what you do? But, as ex-l said earlier, that there is hardly anyway available in which you can turn a BK in your favor, even if they are your own family members.

You know, sometimes I used to smile on this foolish things that to being an engineer how can he do the same (some old fashioned thing).

Because he has got a BK motor on his head, constantly calling, guiding & teaching rules. This motor head, i.e. your mother-in-law is also not the main problem, the BK center & the Didis there are the epicenter of everything.

But the more diplomatic situation is that whenever I used to say anything against his family he just become animal like and scream at me.

Try to memorise few quotes of Murli on anger (because he believe in all that crap) & tell him all later on, so that next time he does not scream or that would be like an insult. And at last say Om Shanti.

They took me to Mount Abu just before Golden Night. That time I was not aware and hoping that husband is not also involved in it. And I thought that in her old age, the mother is doing so.

And do you know the past reality of "Golden nights" of BKWSU? I read a document which contained some horrible information about same. Earlier, Lekhraj (founder of BKism) had some bungalow where he kept all females & then he used to visit them on Golden Night & pick one girl (the better one) & spend the night with her in separate room. That is called Golden Night in BKism. Now they have changed the concept as you know no one would follow them if same thing is continued.

In India you have rights under the India’s Anti-Dowry Law, start to study and learn your rights.

And that may also lead to divorce. Please ex-l, try not to give her legal method for now.

Divorce is harshest thing an Indian woman can think of. Do you know how a divorcee is seen in India? Earlier they were treated like untouchables. Even today it continues in some places in some families. Moreover the one who gets divorce gets all negative attention & criticism equivalent to what a Hollywood celebrity or an Indian politicians get on exposure of scams. Suddenly the girls gets attention from those who know & many who never knew her ever. It is bigger event than marriage here. Divorce are not very common to Indian families. And then, the emotional breakdown which follows it is often unbearable.

Obviously, the way to do it is 'just to do it' politely and directly. Explain it is making you unhappy and destroying your life and the relationship. Perhaps you have to ask him directly if he loves or like you, or whether he wants out of the marriage now. You need to get him to be honest.

But ex-l, do you think he will tell the truth? You know all about deceitful games that BK play. May be asking directly can make Sophie more vulnerable. This is more like being honest. He may find other ways to keep following Bkism & avoiding her or keeping her busy. A BK would never separate from his spouse as many needs get fulfilled (a free faithful sevak), which he/she would not get anywhere else. But if this approach has worked in other previous cases(???), then you can follow it.

I know this will be difficult but you have to set up and "either/or" situation. Either it is marriage *or* it is BK. It cannot be both.

Definitely true, Sophie. It has to be this way because it is the way for BKs. They select BKism or marriage, not both simultaneously. Only way in which both can be there is that you also become a BK.

Everything BK has to go out of the house, his mother must stop calling up to brainwash him.

That would be difficult one. You cannot dissociate him from everything he likes but, yes, BKism can be avoided completely. If his mother calls, give him the conditions that there should be no discussion about BKism, Murlis at all. Ask him sophie, whether he gets anything else from his mother except Murlis & Bkism? If nothing, then perhaps he should see it as losing his real mother to BKism. She has turned into a BK motormouth & there is nothing from her personal experience of life.

Trust me, that is the only way. If he refuses, your marriage is finished.

Finished from its essence completely. If anything will remain, it will be for show off to society, for which I think in-laws married their son with you.

They will try and give you prashad to effect you. You need to be very clear and strict.

Do not eat the prasad. They may do "tonas-tatkas" as while preparing prasad they remember the ghost souls. Many after eating their prasad gets haunted by a real one. It is a tantra vidya.

I heard about some non BKs who can do such thing. In one case, a boy (approx 22 your old ) was given the food which was treated with some evil practice to be eat & after few hours, he start acting madly & lost complete hold off his mind. Police arrived to control the situation. Whole family got devastated by that event. The boy lost his career. And who did this to him? His neighbors. So, beware BK Didis may know such practices. In my BK days, I just had their halva once (just a morsel) & found something missing or unusual about it. So, I asked Didi to pack it (so that I can have it later on) along with the fruit she offered, then threw it in the garbage near the center. So, you also do not eat the prasad if Didi forces, get it packed & then do same thing.

One different route you might consider is to be *more* of a BK than him ... that is, to "out BK" him. We can give you copies of the BK teachings and you can use them against him, e.g. put up quotes that say things like "Baba says, never get angry" etc.

Same thing tickled me & I wrote it in previous post. That is best method so far. But I tried this method on likes & it crashed the situation. Maybe because I did not use it in right way then.

Another idea, Sophie ...

If we think of him like an addict being pushed a drug by his mother ... cut off his supply.

You become the supply, like an addict takes methadone to come off heroin.

We have many copies of Murlis, here:

Hindi

English

in Hindi and English.

Download them, copy them out, and you read them to him ... and then you can discuss them with him afterwards. You become his sister-in-charge. He obviously needs or wants a dominant female in his life. You be it. You give him class.

You see, half-BKs like these people are often given a watered down version of the Murli. An easy version. His mother is probably editing them even more in her mind before she speak to create the effect she wants and manipulate him. These are all original BKWSU publications. They don't like to give them out directly but we were given many.

Copy them out. Tell the mother you will read one to him every day. At least it is something you can do together. You can even stare lovefully into his eyes during mediation. After you can discuss what he thinks about them and try and engage his rational mind again slowly.

You see, the BKs hypnosis puts the rational mind to sleep. It drugs the souls into stupidity where they are encouraged not to think or question. Go gently ...

Are the family wealthy? Do you think that is why the BKs are chasing them?

I cannot say about divorce, only except the importance of getting Sophie's dowry back or 50% of the property. Which ever is the greater.

It all depends on *how* modern Sophie is. If she gets the money/property, she can always find work in a different city and start again.

If I was her, I would go to the newspapers or TV and report on how the BKs lied to her and abused her. Create a big stink. Many people will support her because they dislike the BKs. It is the best way for the BKs to drop the family. They only care about their PR, not spiritual integrity.

If that fails, she can do what the Murli says, live in the house but find another lover just like they advise non-BK husbands to do. Are the BKs not about equality for women? Well, if non-BK husbands can find someone else, so can non-BK wives.

Perhaps someone here will volunteer to take her out on dates and show her a romantic time ... then we would see their true colours!

But, remember, do not be weak in the face of any BKs. What they care most about is a) money, and b) reputation or ego ... because it leads back to a) earning more money. If you have to leave, make sure you get your dowry back AND extra to cover damages for life if he has taken her virginity.

Too many suggestions!!
Say this, do this...
Some are very sensible, - know the laws and your rights, know where you stand.

But most important - before putting energy into all the detailed suggestions is, you need to discuss with him.

What is this marriage about?
What is it for?
What does he want from the marriage and where does he see your relationship in 5 or ten years time?
What about you? Do your wishes and goals coincide with his or are they different?

If you are aligned, then you can try to make the marriage work and use the tips and tricks others say.
If you are misaligned, an amicable separation is best, make a fresh start, and get your dowry back!

Thanks. I will do the same from even today. Will let you know the status.

Good luck Sophie, take the matter very seriously.

On top of ordinary human problems, you are dealing with a state of mind that is obviously completely new you and your family. Do not assume the BKs are "normal". They are not.

They are driven by the belief that the world is going to end in 2 to 3 years and all life, except BK service, is futile, wasteful, negative impure. They believe that this is the only time to earn a spiritual inheritance that will last for 5,000 years and that by surrendering their mind, body and wealth to the BK leaders, they will receive a high status, palaces of gold and diamonds in their next life. Hopefully in a Golden Age (Satyug) that will start in 2036.

On the surface, this madness drives them ... they believe that God has come and speaks to them in person and, like the Christians, only they are the chosen ones. They will lie to you and try and manipulate you if they can. Generally what they do is invite you to the centre to meet a high ranking BK who will talk nicely to you and give you sweeties (prashad), but what is said behind you back in the opposite. They are Brahmins, non-BKs are impure Shudras.

It's clear that the son also have "Mother-Son" psychological problems. Or the mother is still too attached to her son. This is not to do with BKism, it is just being expressed through BKism. The mother is using BK to hold onto or control her son and it seems he is a bit weak.

What man would agree to going on a honeymoon with his whole family!

Establishing "boundaries" within relationships are important too and it seems yours are invaded ... and your natural desire to have a "territory" that belongs to you and your husband does not exist either. It seems like he has not left his mother, and you are being pushed out already like a stray cat.

Are they asking you to have a child or is sex off the menu now?

I still cannot work out what BKs would push their son to marry when marrying is against BK (unless they want to cheat a family or immigration department).