Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post28 Oct 2014

From: Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited
raistlin75 wrote:Being a BK was giving you also the opportunity to improve your education, to travel abroad (or sometimes worldwide), to learn Hindi or English ...

I, personally, remember very well that in the library of my local BK centre there were a couple of handbooks for learning the basics of Hindi but the language course was never organized, even though Baba was telling us to learn Hindi to be able to read the original Murlis.

A good and interesting point.

Why did the BKs never organise teaching Hindi to Westerners ... especially as it is going to be the language of the Golden Age?

You would have thought, given the master plan, it would have been beneficial to them ...

Or was it *more* beneficial for the leaders to have Western adherents who could *not* understand them and what they were saying to each other, and *not* knowing what was going on?

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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post29 Oct 2014

Because for this to happen, they will need extra resources thereby reducing their time, energy & money which is needed for all PR activities.

Secondly, they have graduated in brainwashing skills, if you want that, join it.

Education was never part of BKWSU. So, why Hindi? Perhaps who would teach Hindi when those uneducated folks cannot construct a single Hindi sentence properly for their Murlis. Look at Shivani, she is unable to carry whole conversation in Hindi & often resorts to English (being her only choice for larger reach).

Thirdly, no BK would pay attention to any such real skill development activity, all they want is more brainwash stuff to brainwash the confusions created by all past brainwash stuff.

Lastly, the situation is reverse of what you asked, Indians are learning English & forgetting Hindi. So, why BKWSU ever focus on teaching a Westerner Hindi when it all works well in English there.

I think there would be difference in English Murli & Hindi Murli of same date too. That is just a doubt which may be wrong. But if it's true then teaching Hindi will open numerous grounds for discussing the dissimilarities. BKWSU likes to play it safe by keeping West in West & East in East ... hah.
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ex-l

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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post29 Oct 2014

I think all of your points are true and correct but the last interests me the most.

One has to remember the roots of BKism are in the Sindi Bhaiband mentality. The basic model for BKism developed from Lekhraj Kirpalani's understanding and training in "Bhaiband-ism" (not a real word but one I am making up for this purpose).

Look at how he and the Sindi Bhaiband lived and flourished ... at the cross over of the two pairs of colliding cultures; Islam and Hinduism (Pakistan and India) and also India and the British. They made their money, extended their power and influence, secured themselves by playing up to both parties and being useful trading between the two sides, using the other culture's established networks, adopting other culture's appearance etc.

Yes, keeping divided the two parties would ensure their ruling position and avoid the type of embarrassing problems and anomalies from arising.

In the beginning, a few of the early Westerners did learn Hindi (and have since left or even been pushed out a long time ago) and did so out of frustration of BK teachers whose English was so bad they could not translate the Hindi Murlis to them properly. They thought "if this is God, then we must understand what he is saying".

Now you make me realise that perhaps those BK teachers' Hindi was not very good to understand and judge what was written either.

Yes, the leaders would encourage that learning Hindi was a waste of time and a distraction from earning good karma and doing brainwash Yoga.

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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post29 Oct 2014

They may start teaching Hindi to Western BKs in future as soon as it is seen as an economical. They may start asking more donations for that purpose. Few more Indian BKs will get an experience of West life while carrying out Teaching Hindi task & pakka Western followers will pay for all their comforts. It can be introduced as part of Yagya. Many things have been done in name of Yagya. Too much money has been accumulated all in name of Yagya. So, why not this one? Among different courses they provide (which are not free, so poor BKs should forget about getting graduate from BKWSU or a doctorate in brainwash philosophy), now they can also add "Hindi" as one subject. BTW, it may already be a part of their curriculum. Everything for money. Give your money to them & they will teach Hindi, Sanskrit, Urdu, Tamil, French, Telugu, Chinese, etc etc everything. That's their specialty. One capsule for all diseases. Name it? (Hint: A 5 letter word-It starts with M & ends with Y, all in englissss...)

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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post30 Oct 2014

I agree with points of view of you both. I also think that the BKs actually never started the Hindi courses for the Westerners, although they often claim, that to know Hindi, at least the basics, is very important, because Baba said that - Hindi is not a profitable channel of getting any benefit from the Western World for the BKs. It doesn't work that effectively like hanging on "promoting Hindu culture" or "positive thinking courses" (actually organized by people who are literally obsessed on negative thinking).

The Westerners are attracted to the BKs by their approach - deeply peaceful smiling people, calm, sweet nature (angelic), by mysterious, oriental spirituality, by the slogan of easy BK Raj Yoga meditation, which the keyword is "Easy", what in reality is actually very difficult, requiring very good preparation, very long and detailed, and not counted in days as "7 day course of Raj Yoga", but in months, and even in years to finally be able to just start practising and definitely is neither easy nor for anyone, just like any other Yoga of the mind.

You're mentally ill - forget about sitting behind a wheel and drive, forget about having the driving license. You may be a passenger but never a driver. This is not for you. For someone who is mentally ill dealing with any kind of Yoga of the mind is like playing with fire. Either you only get burned, or burn.

The BKs don't see any benefit to their Western potential members in teaching them Hindi - it's not the point. They don't have the profit from it, on the contrary they would have a massive loss. The ignorance, the lack of knowledge about their culture, habits, about the roots of it, and also about the language of original teachings makes it one of the strongest "weapons" the BKWSU still has. That's why I compared them to the Catholicism of the Dark Ages. In my opinion, they fit just perfectly as they don't seem to let their adherents to know Hindi and to make them able to compare the Murlis in their native languages or in English, to the original ones in Hindi. That could have been be too much to them if they would have to answer so many hard questions, e.g. about manipulation of information and revisionism of the BK teachings.

I cannot remember any Murli, any class or lecture with added some explanations to the names, or quotations coming from Hindu mythology or Hinduism, unknown to these BKs who came from different cultural and religious environment or did not interest in Indian culture.

Today, if you get the Bible, you've got also additional explanations to the Bible made by the academics studying the Bible or theologists.

Speaking about the language course as a method of enculting/luring - the scientologists provide their potential adherents cost-free English courses (it's one of their methods of enculting). Such as many other sects based on Christianity, Satanism or oriental spirituality.
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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post31 Oct 2014

Speaking about the language course as a method of enculting/luring - the scientologists provide their potential adherents cost-free English courses (it's one of their methods of enculting).

That sentence expresses my view reading this thread, or rather, the opposite. The BKs do very nicely getting members without needing to teach systematise teaching languages as bait. (although Hindi lessons do happen on a local, small scale sometimes).

Few BKs actually have a real desire, curiosity or hunger for learning new things or exploring new paradigms - each language is a paradigm in itself - or to challenge themselves too much (let alone the time or energy).

That 99% of their membership speak an Indian language, with most of them either native Hindi speakers or those for whom Hindi is a comfortable second language, why would they consider disabusing the 1% westerners of their exotic romanticism, especially as those who have become proficient tend to become irritants - for reasons previously mentioned here by others?
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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post31 Oct 2014

Having us not understand Hindi, and separating from Hindi speakers and the rest of the Hindi community to some extent, meant that they could completely control what we knew and understood of their religion. Even be able to discern the nature of their god.

One of the most interesting comments a native Hindi speaker made on these forums was that the BK god spirit "spoke lower middle class Hindi". Now Save Innocents comments on its relative poor grammar. Remember, the Sindis were not native Hindi speakers and had their own language. Even to carry out their international business, the Bhaibund Sindis invented their own secret languages for doing accounts and passing on messages, so fearful of their own clan they were, that they might steal trade secrets or the tax man get to know how much they ad earn.

All that was in Lekhraj Kirpalani and other "original jewels" DNA and they metamorphosed it into their religion.

We were there to be used. To fund their operation, to bring in new funders of their operation. Our role was to broken, comic "Hinglish" (Indian-English) and translate it into our native tongues in a polish manner. They provided the raw materials, we re-packaged them and re-sold them, e.g. Robert Shubow taking Jagdish Chander's work and producing the fiction work the BK believe is a history book called 'Adi Dev'.

We did not need to know the original. As entrepreneurs, it was not in their interest to tell us where they got their supply. It's all 90% just business Bhaibund-style. They took from other sources, picked the best, modified and polished, and composed the items together to look good ... that's what Lekhraj Kirpalani did with his jewellery. His religion even reflected his traditional taste, e.g. rigid, balanced, more formal.

To have us investing our time, energy and brain power in learning Hindi, was a waste of business resources ... and a threat to them because we, as Westerners, had power in India. Many of the original Western BKs were far more intelligent than the "Original Jewels". Some were even more spiritual. Almost every one of us had more integrity.

Plus we had ideas like human rights, democracy, equality, social upliftment etc. They would not want to risk us rising as leaders, they had to remain in power representing us and translating back what we said to Indians; using Westerners ("Look, even White people follow us!") but keeping them as deaf and mute pets.

There was one early BK Brother who did learn Hindi. He learnt it out of frustration to try and appreciate the Murlis. He was highly instrumental in opening up the Americas for the BKWSU ... he left a long time ago. I never knew why? What was his name, a Scotsman I think he was. The other notable is still in the BKWSU, Denise, but she still does not hold the position she would if she was Sindi or brown.

You'r right, the romantic appeal of orientalism is more powerful if it remains mysterious.

I knew someone who travelled/drove the Seniors around. I don't think they knew he could understanding Hindi. He used to say their conversations in private were extremely mundane and uninteresting.

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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post31 Oct 2014

Due to this language gap, it makes "Easy BK Raj Yoga meditation" easier to spread in countries other than India. Fulfilling demand of Western BKs means investing tremendous resources of BKWSU there. If they will start it for one, many others will come running & demanding it in turn. If a Western BK questions them, he will always get a new explanation supported by a Hindi sentence of Murli, considered superior to its English version, and with no other choice left he has to agree. Also, Hindi speaking BK leaders or center in charge in West can talk about all deceiving skills & tactics openly, no one would get it ever.

Common perception is that when two people talk in their language in front of third one who do not understand it, it is often considered offensive but Western BKs dealing with this silently, where is their awareness about their rights.... probably not every Western BK has that attitude. If not whole of it, then also they should ask teachers to teach them basics of Hindi.

What's the problem? Is teaching Hindi not considered a part of their service? After all, it's going to help Western BKs learn it & read the original work of Indian Murli writers. And then they would also understand the special whispering talent of Dadis in milans. I think BKWSU is not that keen on putting some effort to make Western community more aware about original BKism, that may be due to the fear of getting it all exposed, i.e., the wrong interpretation of Murlis, the wrong interpretation of original scriptures.

Learning Hindi means learning a way to prove all their sayings & Murlis wrong because each Hindi word they use means something else & they are using it differently, not just metaphorically or as an analogy.
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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post01 Nov 2014

Save Innocents wrote:I think BKWSU is not that keen on putting some effort to make Western community more aware about original BKism, that may be due to the fear of getting it all exposed, i.e., the wrong interpretation of Murlis, the wrong interpretation of original scriptures.

Yes, I think you are correct.

You also need to factor in that they would not want Western BKs accessing enlightened Hindi materials as they have for decades been extreme condescending towards "ignorant, impure" Indians in a sort of sanctification of the relationship between Sindis and Hindis.

It's really just a sort of snobbery basis on wealth ... but with a chip on the shoulder because they lack the same educational or intellectual tradition.

Save Innocents, being a later comer to the whole BK thing, and only seeing it for a short while at a local centre, despite your highly accurate insights, you really have no idea *how* condescending toward the Hindus these people prey on they are and have been at heart.

The core of evidence of this is in the early publications - where, for example, they even called Gandhi a "traitor" and Congress "the crow race" or kaurvas, ignorant etc. Let me quote some typical examples ...
the present day Gita, Bhagwat, Mahabharat, Ramayan ... contain 95% unbelievable balderdash
Self-ignorant, unrealised Kansas, Jarasandhis, Kauravas (Congress) and other slave Bharatvasis, ensnared as they are by the strong attachmetn of Maya, staggering in the obscurity of unwisdom, engaged in a life-and-death struggle for hoarding transitory triflings
Self-unrealised, undivine, atheistic Kali yugi preceptors and priest, kulas and kazis ppopes and archbishops, have not at all understoof and realised what these divine words ... stand for".
The COngress, the League, the Mahasabha and various other so-called religious, leading organisations in Bharat ... squeak, squail and squabble exactly like ferocious baboons
Self-unrealised Gandhi and Savarkar, Munshi and Jinnah and a host of other self-unrealised Leaders and Presidents with all their blind followers ... are destined neither to see the very face of nor lay their very foot on the soil of their much beflattered Utopia of Sach-khand and Pak-sthan
95% illiterate Indian Leaders come to [the Viceroy of India] in scores demand swaraj ... the Illiterates of the East ...
Devilish kauravas(Congress) Kansa, Jarasanadhi and other ... the guides of atheistic, slavish, destitute, Bharavasis who have degraded themselves by following the path of penance, austerities and devotion through self-ignorance ... who neither obey the dictates of any single religion nor have faith in any

These and many more rantings are all contain in the "Divine Decrees", the book 'THIS PREORDAINED WAR OF MAHABHARATA', and letters published by the BKs in the name of Lekhraj Kirpalani and Om Radhe and make up the core attitude of the inner circle.

A joke when you consider how they suck up to the very same people and utter platitudes about "respecting other religions".

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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post01 Nov 2014

I knew all these views of BKism as one pakka BK told me about it. That was a weird phase of me spending time to convince him to leave his BK carrier because it does not always end up in a good job.

It is right to say that all the extra ordinary facts given in Ramayana or Mahabharata or any other scriptures of Hinduism as well as other religions are beyong belief & understanding. But most of them state things that happened centuries or millennia ago. The process is not described & only the visible phenomena were recorded, so people find it hard to believe. It's almost like current technology. Just about a bulb that Edison discovered. Someone who understand science behind it can appreciate it but those who do not know do not give a single thought about it.

And if all this technology gets destroyed (say, after thousands of years) due to lack of resources to support it or due to some disaster & humans are back to another form of survival, will the evolved generation, then, believe in currently existing tech when they will be told that in past people used to have devices which can light up your place during nights or devices which can store data more than owner's brain capacity (memory)? Well, it's very typical to make BKs & non-believers to understand that there was a past like Mahabharat & Ramayana or things written in Bible or Quran unless you are an awakened fully enlightened being. Ah ... they do not even believe that full enlightenment is possible for each individual (not even for BKs) rather believe it is reserved for some sole proprietor like Lekhraj Kirpalani & his girls.
BKism philosophy propagat..ed: Devilish kauravas(Congress) Kansa, Jarasanadhi and other ... the guides of atheistic, slavish, destitute, Bharavasis who have degraded themselves by following the path of penance, austerities and devotion through self-ignorance ... who neither obey the dictates of any single religion nor have faith in any

This point is unclear to me. Who are they targeting - Kauravas of past or atheist of present or austere of present & past or commoners who worship in their homes to avoid cults & follow their heart in all matters?
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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post01 Nov 2014

Save Innocents wrote:This point is unclear to me. Who are they targeting - Kauravas of past or atheist of present or austere of present & past or commoners who worship in their homes to avoid cults & follow their heart in all matters?

In the beginning, the Om Mandli literally and directly claimed Lekhraj Kirpalani was Krishna incarnate again.

I think the conflict and conceptualisation started on limited to his own community, the bhaiband of Hyderabad, Sind but then quickly became expansively exaggerated.

The leader (mukhi) of the bhaiband was cast as the devilish King of Mathura called Kans, who had killed Devki the mother of Krishna, and 6 of his other Brothers. And, indeed, all of the babies born in the same month trying to destroy Krishna. Lekhraj Kirpalani, believing himself to literally be Krishna saw his followers as the Gopis and then Pandavs. Hence the rest of the Hindu society of Hyderbad, or perhaps just the bhaiband, initially became the Kauravas, the children of Dhritarashtra and the army that opposed the Pandavs (Om Mandli) and were killed in the great battle at Kurukshetra.

Therefore we must also interpret this as a death wish directed at all Hindus who resisted his influence and did not surrender to him. His social climbing had lead him to marry one of his daughters into the Muhki's family but who he later withdrew leaving a child behind.

Image
In the original documents, this insult/death wish is directed at the Indian National Congress who came to dominated Indian politics nationally from around 1947. It was the prime mover in the Indian Independence Movement and its struggle against British colonial rule in India.

Noto bene, here folks, the Congress are centre-left socialist/liberals. The BKs have always swung to the right and parties like Bharatiya Janata Party.

The INC is officially based upon the Gandhian principle of Sarvodaya (upliftment of all sections of the society) and places emphasises upon policies to improve the lives of the economically underprivileged and socially unprivileged sections of society. It also asserts the right to be free from religious rule and teachings.

Lekhraj Kirpalani, on the other hand, portray Gandhi as a "traitor" as he, Kirpalani, sucked up to the British rulers and called Congress the "Crow Race". I am not sure of the significance of that ... Can you say? Perhaps something to do with another image that Lekhraj Kirpalani used often that worldly accomplishments and happiness were like "the droppings of a crow".

What can we deduce out of all this about Lekhraj Kirpalani's psyche?

Remember, there was no "God Shiva" possessing him and whispering through him. He was God Brahma, Krishna, Vishnu and was to become Narayan after his coronation as the ruler of heaven on earth. He saw in the events of the world around him reflections of Hindu mythology believing WWII to be the Mahabharata and they, the Pandav Army as responsible from creating it.

* Incidentally, if Indians think Independence was a good thing, they have much to be grateful to a Scotsman call Allan Octavian Hume for it, as he was the original founder of the Congress. Hume had very progressive ideas on social reform, advocated women's education, and was against infanticide and enforced widowhood. He was instrumental is bringing down the Great Hedge of India, a 2,500 mile 12 foot high barrier which the English used primarily to collect tax on salt. Hume was outspoken leader and often criticised the Government.

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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post02 Nov 2014

Lekhraj Kirpalani, on the other hand, portray Gandhi as a "traitor" as he, Kirpalani, sucked up to the British rulers and called Congress the "Crow Race". I am not sure of the significance of that ... Can you say?

Don't know what this crow race means & how it becomes important within BKism where all BKs are battling each other to occupy those limited seats of Golden Age. In Hindi, crow is called kauva & the cuckoo bird called koyal. Both are physically almost alike. Koyal is considered more wise (or deceptive in this case) than crow as she keeps her eggs in crow's nest with crow's eggs for care & protection till they hatch, grow up & then fly away from the crow who cared them. So, koyal does not have to care for all that upbringing part.

Crow's voice is blunt as compared to koyal which is considered sweet. So, it is also a remark on people with harsh words. And there is also an old saying that if both are sitting side by side & you are asked to distinguish, it is impossible to an extent (given that you are not a zoologist) but when one of them speaks, it becomes clear who is crow & who is koyal. So, a wise person speech can be differentiated from that of an idiot. Another inference is that when crow like individual is sitting amidst koyal like people, it is better for him to shut up or it all gets exposed. Just like BK propagators who shut up when discussion comes to their core beliefs in front of public. I think there must be some story related to crow racing to get something which was used here.

Remember, there was no "God Shiva" possessing him and whispering through him. He was God Brahma, Krishna, Vishnu and was to become Narayan after his coronation as the ruler of heaven on earth. He saw in the events of the world around him reflections of Hindu mythology believing WWII to be the Mahabharata and they, the Pandav Army as responsible from creating it.

And this is his belief. Anyone can have such mental problems or diseases. He could have met some counselor or psychologist or healer to solve his problems instead of creating such a big propaganda cult.

BTW, in the image you posted in previous post, can you identify who is Lekhraj??? OK, let me make it easy for everyone, the one who is wearing more golden ornaments, a BKism crown, big nails, eyes & expression much like that of Lekhraj.
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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post02 Nov 2014

Save Innocents wrote:In Hindi, crow is called kauva ... Crow's voice is blunt as compared to koyal which is considered sweet.

I think that is the answer then, it is a childish play of words ... Kauva meaning the Kauravas, or the losers in the Mahabharata War who fought the Pandavs. It must have been Lekhraj Kirpalani's nickname for the freedom fighter of India, who were willing to risk their lives and imprisonment opposing the British rulers, whilst Lekhraj Kirpalani made his fortune selling jewellery to their elite.

Which picture do you mean?

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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post02 Nov 2014

Which picture do you mean?

Referring to the image in your second last post in which Lord Krishna was shown lifting Kans. It is still there, see. The Lekhraj on home page with his red eyes looks similar to this person in image, is it not?

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Re: Why don't and did not the BKs teach Western BKs Hindi?

Post02 Nov 2014

To Admin,
Feeling thoughtful. Did some introspection & finally deciding to never write against anything, any organization, any group, any individual, etc. I suddenly found it useless to interfere in anything that is not adding to self growth rather pulling me towards same hurtful acts. Speech & words sometimes cause biggest wounds. So quitting this discussion forum.
Thankyou.
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