Gems of knowledge (Murli Points) for churning.

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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andrey

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Post09 May 2007

Dear Brother,
See here it says bhaibund Sisters. So Bhaibund should be the Om Mandli itself and not the anty party. This 16 years old girl explaining may be very well Om Radhe.

In the Murli it is said that, "Maya comes in trance". It is neither Yoga nor knowledge. There is no importance given to trance or visions. It is also mentioned that there were such individuals that said Mama or Baba came in them and talk like this.

If the name of Shiva is not mentinoed, does it mean he does not work in an incognito way? Does he come to glorify his name? Knowledge was different in the beginning and now it is different/regarding the soul for example. Maybe regarding god. So should we not better discuss The Knowledge that we have available now? How can there be nuclear weapons if they have not been invented yet?
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ex-l

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Post10 May 2007

andrey wrote: So should we not better discuss The Knowledge that we have available now?

Before we listen to the teacher, first we must check his credentials.

PBK is based on BK, and so also the roots of the PBK. These are the roots of the BK. How can truth be promoted by fairy stories and falsehood? The complex mental equations we have (Knowledge/Murlis) are faulted. We know that. Therefore the results we produce are also faulted. We see that. Therefore we have to go right back to the beginning and start again. Which is where I am.
See here it says bhaibund Sisters. So Bhaibund should be the om mandli itself and not the anti-party. This 16 years old girl explaining may be very well Om Radhe. How can there be nuclear weapons if they have not been invented yet.

How can there be Destruction if it had not been invented yet? And all the other preductions. Why was the "gas" reference removed? It was because Lekhraj Kirpalani and the BKs (and the spirits with them be it Shiv or not) were feeding off the real world and using real world references.

Om Radhe was 21/22 and so, no, it was not her at this time. We read in Vishwa Ratan's account of this time that Lekhraj Kirpalani used to write down some notes and they were taken to a "Senior Sister" to be checked. The details were not given.

Yes, it refers to the Om Mandli who were mostly or entirely from the "Bhaibund". The Bhaibund is not the "Anti-Party". The Bhaibund is the Sindi/Hindi caste/community into which they were all or mostly born. You are confusing this for the "Om Mandli Bhaibund Committee" which is the proper name for what the Prajapati Brahma Kumaris called the "Anti-Party".

What has Virendra Dev Dixit got to say about all this in the VCD*? Does he know anything of it or just repeats the BKWSU stories?
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andrey

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Post10 May 2007

Dear Brother,

No, no, just the other way. Why should we fear thinking and judging on our own? You say we should not nod down or bow down if we don't think it out. So we should take the points to see if they are OK, then who says it? It is not important now. For example, what is wrong with the soul being a point of light, God being a point of light?

At Destruction, we know that nature will play the biggest part. But also war. The predictions may fail. It is said that the world says the BKs say, "Destruction will happen, Destruction will happen and it does not happen". Like the story of the boy crying, "wolf, wolf" and there was no wolf. But does it mean that Destruction itself will fail and will not happen? It is bound to happen not because it is said so, and it is said so, because it is to happen. Do you think that if there is war now they will avoid using atom bombs and gas, because they were not mentioned in the beginnning?

But where did you draw the conclusion that this commitee is called the Anti-Party. Why should the head of this commitee "command" the oragnisation of the Yagya, and even Lekhraj Kirpalani as it is visible he is anti?

Yes, we know that there used to be a mother in the beginning along with the Father - the seniour Sister you say. In the Murli it is also said about them.
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ex-l

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Post10 May 2007

andrey wrote:But where did you draw the conclusion that this commitee is called the Anti-Party. Why should the head of this commitee "command" the organisation of the Yagya, and even Dada Lekhraj as it is visible he is anti?

Yes, we know that there used to be a mother in the beginning along with the Father - the seniour Sister you say. In the Murli it is also said about them.

I am not "drawing conclusions". I am dealing in clearly evidenced facts from contemporary documents.

I am repeating what is officially written in the name of the Prajapati Brahma Kumaris by someone (who we do not know yet). No conclusions are made.
    It states Narain Shewakram was the sleeping partner of Lekhraj Kirpalani.
    He was the secretary of the Om Mandli Bhaibund Committee which is referred to as the Anti-Party
    He still owed money to Lekhraj Kirpalani in 1938 for the breakdown of their partnership which is stated t been in 1932.
And you are being deliberately confusing the issue of the mother as medium because you mean the wife of Narain Shewakram. But it was a young girl that was the medium of the Golden Circle. Who was she channelling? The senior BKs have spoken about them and I think they have been official erased out of the history.

You do not know. You believe. We do know, yet, if this is "God" you speak of or whom or when he speaks. If Virendra Dev Dixit was Narain Shewakram, why did he not remember or mention he was secretary for the Anti-Party?
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john

reforming BK

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Post10 May 2007

AndreyBhai

You are clueless because you don't pay attention to what is going on, on this forum you keep making ill informed comments because you are not following properly.

It is like a person waking up for 5 minutes making lots of fuss, falling back to sleep missing all the action and progression, waking up, making ill informed comments then falling back to sleep. It would be better for you if you paid proper attention and researched more thoroughly, rather than coming back with glib and sloppy comments which only serve to confuse the issues.

shivsena

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seed of the human Kalpa tree.

Post12 May 2007

To all BKs and PBKs who believe that Supreme Soul Shiva goes to some golden-red world Paramdham far from this physical universe, to rest for 4900 years.

In Murlis it is said "i am the seed of this human Kalpa tree". Can any BK or PBK please explain, what the seed of the human tree (bindi Shiv) is doing in Paramdham for 4900 years and why does He have to go there in the first place? If He is the seed of the human tree; should He not be hibernating in some chaitanya body (Ram's soul) for full 84 births and when His part emerges in Sangamyug He starts giving the Godly knowledge? (In bhakti-marg Gita also it is said that :"the whole world rests in me. At the end of each Kalpa i destroy the old world and at the beginning of each Kalpa i create a new world order, with the power of my Yoga". )

shivsena.
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john

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Post12 May 2007

Revised Sakar Murli 14/04/04
The Father says: You now have to return home. Those of all religions have to go to the land of silence and the land of nirvana (beyond sound), where all souls reside in silence. The unlimited Father, who is the Creator, comes and gives everyone liberation and liberation-in-life. So praise should be sung of that one God, the Father. The One who comes and serves everyone should be remembered. The Father Himself explains: I am the Resident of the supreme abode, the faraway land. The original eternal deity religion that existed at the very beginning no longer exists, and this is why people call out to Me. I come and take all of you children back home

In the first instance it is said 'I am the resident of supreme abode', If Shiva resided with any soul it would not be a supreme abode because it would go through degradation throughout The Cycle. Then it says 'faraway land'. Staying in Bharat with another soul would not be a faraway land. 'I come and take all of you children back home' This indicates all will go back home with Shiva and in your interpretation all souls would reside with the Ram soul.
Those of all religions have to go to the land of silence

A soul in a body is not in the land of silence, only when a soul leaves the corporeal world is there complete silence.
Those of the path of isolation only believe the element of brahm to be God and they only remember that. They call themselves yogis who have Yoga with the brahm element or the element of light. However, that is a place of residence which is called Brahmand.

Here it is explaining how the brahm element is a different place and a place of residence.
Therefore all the souls go with Shiva to the brahmand, the place of residence in the faraway land.
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andrey

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Post12 May 2007

Dear Brother,

The soul of Ram takes rebirth, he leaves the body, so will the Supreme Soul accompany him in the next body? It is said, "i do not enter heaven". If the Supreme Soul was present for the full 5000 years in the drama, then who will liberate us? He will also be coming in birth and rebirth. It is said in the Murli, "i come". Then his practical company transforms souls. If he were here, why would there be downfall? He elevates us with the influence of his practical company.

If there is no other world then also all the other souls should remain on this world too. Where would they remain? You can see the condition of the world, the tension that is created when two souls that do not go along with one another. They cannot stay in one room for 5 minutes together. And this is only two souls. Then which will be this body that will be containing ... if we divide 7 billions to 900,000 ... so many souls in one body. So many souls who have difference of oppinion. It is not possible.

The seed of the human world is a human being and this is Prajapita. If the Supreme Soul were the seed, then we know that whatever the seed so will be the three, and the fruit. So The Tree of humanity will have to be consisted of aboghta souls - like him, but no one except him is like this.

Something interesting about the two Rams ... it is said that those who fail become the Moon Dynasty. But Ram is also called the one from the Sun Dynasty. The calculation shows that the Ram of the Silver Age will be the soul of Sita who is of the Moon Dynasty. Because soul changes body; male - famale accurately in the Godlen and Silver Ages, and in the Copper and Iron Ages the most two times as one sex. It is like this because the soul of Sita becomes most Maryadas Purushottam - faithful to one in the Confluence Age whilst the soul of Ram plays a part of connection with many.

One of the main aspects of the Advanced Knowledge that is new compared to the basic knowledge is that there exists one such soul that is stable in faith and never shakes. This soul is the soul of Ram who becomes constant in faith in the Confluence Age then in the broad drama he is constant in the deity religion. The Supreme Soul Shiva does not belong to any religion.
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john

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Post12 May 2007

andrey wrote: Then his practical company transforms souls. If he were here, why would there be downfall. He elevates us with the influence of his practical company.

Sivasena says in hibernation, if a soul is merged then it's influence will not be felt
If there is no other world then also all the other soul should remain on this world too. Where would they remain. You can see the condition of the world, the tension that is created when two souls that does not go along with one another, they cannot stay in one room for 5 minutes together and this is only two souls, then which will be this body that will be containing ... if we divide 7 billions to 900000, so many souls in one body, so many souls who have difference of oppinion. It is not possible.

Again in hibernation, the influence would not be felt, also a soul has no physical dimensions so space would not be an issue. I don't agree with sivasena's idea, but I don't see how these points you mention go against it.
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andrey

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Post12 May 2007

How many Gods do you know, and how many Godly universities, so that you can know how should they behave and be organized?

Yes there used to be the Trimurti. There used to be another younger mother also. She did not channel anyone. Om Radhe also did not channel anyone and was still worthy of respect. But where did this Golden Circle came from? Nowhere does it says it is matter of the wife of Sevakram. The Entrance of Shiva cannot be proven in anyone. It will always remain a matter of faith, opinion.

What is clear from the documents is that Sevakram used to control the Yagya, is not it. And why should we remember what kind of partner he was? Why should we investigate in order to find truth? Truth should be easily accessible for everyone.

Baba says that first one has to become a child of the Father, then one has to learn how to speak, how to ask a question, how to address, because many just have an easy approach, ordinary vision, lose time asking minor questions or one and the same question again and again etc. We do aim to become free from questions and there are minor questions.

One type of silence is external, that is out of suppresion, violence and is heavy. There are words that are made to go down. Another type of silence is eternal, like above words, where one cannot even find words to form a question.

Like when we look from a high peak our breath stops or when we see some amazing sight, so imagine what will be if God has come, what are we doing when he has come. Like in the class when the teacher comes all stand up. But then some children continue to chat. In the Murli it is also said that when the Father comes you all should stand up.

You have chosen a fine position of "Don't touch me for anything" being the ex-BK. You don't have to become deities, so you are free to express any kind of vice. You can study all kind of things and not like any of it, but finally one has to identify oneself to something in a positive way. It is an innate need for a soul to belong. One can say, "yes, we do belong to this forum, it is our family", but I see here we are 10 -12 people and no 2 soul's opinions does not match. The belonging will be some matching.
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john

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Post12 May 2007

andrey wrote:Why should we investigate in order to find truth. Truth should be easily accessible for everyone.

AndreyBhai

If it is not in your capacity to understand the why, then so be it. Yes, truth should be easily accessible, but it is not. Which brings the question as to why it is not easily accessible?

It is, I believe, because human intellects cloud, misrepresent and pass on faulty information. Manmat gets mixed with Shrimat and new non-Godly interpretations are put into The Knowledge. If someone is not vigilant they will just accept and pass on faulty information themselves.
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ex-l

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Post12 May 2007

andrey wrote:What is clear from the documents is that Sevakram used to control the Yagya, is not it. And why should we remember what kind of partner he was? Why should we investigate in order to find truth? Truth should be easily accessible for everyone.

God of the Highest Heaven, I agree with you that truth should be easily accessible for everyone. "At the touch of button", as it says in the Murli. That is what I am working for. The truth for all and anyone at the click of mouse, without them having to negotiate the Brahma Kumaris, their center-in-charge or anyone else at all. Instant inheritance for anyone that can grasp it. And then hopefully those that can will print it out and share with with those that have not a computer.

Do you agree, or do you disagree? If you agree, then work to support that vision. Stop your opinion and work towards it. Pure, raw truth with no opinion in between. No choice quotes to suit your mind. Just the whole enchilada. (It means the whole of something, including everything that is connected with it). why must it be like blood out of a stone?

NO. (And observe this because it illustrates the way your mind works.) No, the documents do not show that Narain Shewakram controlled the Yagya. At present all they show is that he was the secretary of the Anti-Party. Explain that and prove what his role was. Show us the evidence.

Why it is important that to state Shewakram was the sleeping partner rather than Lekhraj Kirpalani was the sleeping partner, as per the "New, Improved, Official BK History (tm)"? Because it proves that the leaders of the BKWSU lie and are willing to state the complete opposite to the truth. In 1939, they say one thing, in 1977 they say another. Just as with Lekhraj Kirpalani's date of birth; in 1939, they say one thing, in 1976 they say another. And, what is interesting is that they chose the wrong one to become the "official history". It starts to prove the intuitions many have had that the official history is not true. So what more is not true?

So what you are saying is that it is better to pretend, go back to sleep and "just belong" rather seek the truth? Wake up Andrey, wake up! You are like a sleep old man just being roused.

By not being a BK, I am free to express the truth. Where are the BKs now? Do you not think they should be amazed by these revelations of their Baba? And where are the PBKs? Do you not think they should be asking questions of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and adding their piece of the jigsaw puzzle?
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andrey

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Post13 May 2007

There is no need for any documents for proof whether BKs lie or not. If they lie it is their loss, but where will we be having the raw truth from? It is not possible that we don't have an opinion, because we are all different. For example, these documents will just enrage some towards the BK "heads will fall" "we have to go, knock doors and ask some questions". They will create a rage, but because it is for the right cause, because you know ... now everything turned arround. Now BKs came to be false and we are now with the ego that we only know the truth. We'll reveal it. God is again on our side, and they are nothing. Now the rage is righteous. But what will be this truth that will create confrontation? It may even create confrontation, but later it should create some deeper understanding.

What does it mean to "wake up". To wake up that I am being lied. OK, Brother if I am being lied, then tell me where is the truth? Do you know it already? No. I have to wait whilst you do the research and find out, whilst i believe that it will be easily given. What you present is a collection of information from here and there. What newness can you add to this except your opinion on the top? You have to wake up as to who speaks truth and who lies. We all lie every day many times.

Only one God will be truth and he is shown as a beggar because no one believes him. There is a problem with you and Virendra Dev Dixit. These "revelations" does not disturb me, because i don't think he should have known this. It is you who thinks "he should know". Why should he know? You just try to find scratches to put your fingers inside and prove it false. You just repeat and repeat same things everywhere and whilst doing this i would like to become busy in what he has to say. Whilst for you it is still a matter of research who is who, for me there is not that search now. Knowledge changes even now and it is disturbing indeed that we have to catch up to the latest.

There is difference in knowledge from books. Whatever information they may give ... it is different. They cannot give the information that God himself comes and gives, and he gives orally. I am interested in studying that. Then whatever proofs you may bring to show me what i study is false, i will just find it disturbing, because no matter what you may bring it will not disturb me. Of course, it is a matter of belonging. Even now some souls say for the Advanced Knowledge that is is true, but until Dadi accepts, i cannot accept. If Dadi lies then for me is OK. It is still my Dadi.

You are just confronting what should not be confronted. Those who do not like to accept should be left alone. So for me it is the same. You may say that in The Knowledge there are insults, but for me it is the correct knowledge. Now whatever you may say that will be going against The Knowledge i may see as insult. Whether he is a sleeping or waking partner. Whether it is this Sevakram or someone else. Whether 12 or 13 years later ... for me now, it is not so important anymore. The whole knowledge is just a recognition of the Supreme Soul.

For some souls this may be the Supreme Soul Shiva. For some the soul of Ram. For others the soul of Krishna. For others the soul of a Dadi, Didi or Dada. Like you say ... whom do you get Shrimat from? Whom do you bow down to? Previously i used to be the same thinking that I am the highest authority. Now i found out I am not the most special soul in the world. Everything does not commence and ends with me, and it is a relief. There used to be a process of bowing down your head, your intellect, your understanding to something, but this slavery ... in the Murlis it is said we "should become slaves of ShivBaba", this slavery to one gives you total freedom.

Sikhs say one should bow down to truth only. But we should first find it to bow down to it. And it is not dificult to find it. Even Google search will do. Otherwise one just accepts information from everywhere. No. When My Baba accepts then i will accept. Then if you are left with the queries of what he will tell regarding this and that, who is the one with the query. Then how does it come that the one with the query demands information with a demanding tone. If you are a seeker, behave like a seeker.

Then if you say there is no such higher soul, each one is higher then the next, then probably this is also something. If you think that if you show that everyone is false you'll prove that you are the final truth then maybe this is also some way.

You know ... you use the confrontation between BKs and PBKs to gain points, but we are not enemies amongst ourselves. We are one familly.

If you say someone is hiding the truth then along with knowing who hides it and why, you should know what the truth is and it should be presented in a positive, affirmative way, like ... This is this. BKs lie may be true, but nothing comes out of it. What is the soul? What is the Supreme Soul? How does the World Cycle spin? This is the information that is valuable. And this information cannot be given in any book by any human being. All the books of human beings that interpret this information have one and the same source.

If we have the possibility to study from the source now, where is the need to dig the archive? We choose for ourselves what kind of information we do pass. Information from which source. To say, "this is like this and that is like that" just gives a superficial sense that see we can accept "this and that", and still remain detached from both. "I know this and know that". But where is the need to accept two things that does not match together.

However, the forum is itself a form of PR. The polemics here are always made with half of the vision going to "you know everyone may read this", so it is again some show. It is said that truth is not given to public. It is given secretly. A true seeker will engage himself just for himself, for his own contentment. Then when he finds out he may share. See the difference. I don't pretend i know everything and don't believe it is possible, and don't aim to.

Whoever, whatever information may have he can share that. I believe that on knowing one, one comes to know everything. And this one is easily accessible to anyone ... to anyone who is genuine seeker. Not only a finger pointer, who what kind of information is holding back. What is wrong to be a seeker? But if you are a seeker, behave like a seeker.
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ex-l

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The broken pot

Post13 May 2007

andrey wrote:There is no need for any documents for proof whether BKs lie or not. If they lie it is their loss.

If we are all one family, then we all have responsiblities to that family and how it behaves to others. "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive". - Walter Scott

I am sorry but I am not so heartless that I can stand back and watch them weave their web around others wasting their lives. I have probably seen what you have not living apart from the family. What is the problem with getting the history right?
But where is the need to accept two things that does not match together ... It is said that truth is not given to public. It is given secretly. A true seeker will engage himself just for himself, for his own contentment. Then when he finds out he may share. See the difference. I don't pretend I know everything and don't believe it is possible, and don't aim to.

We obviously have very different understanding of the role of a seeker. For me a seeker must have the courage to carry light into every little corner of darkness. These are not little corners Andrey. They are core elements. We are talking about serious stuff here. People's lives, their money, their families, being chewed up on the basis of myths. (I am not say it is all myth but we have established some serious myths and myth-makers).

There is no "need" to accept. It is just seeing reality as it is. Like an archaeologist piecing together an ancient broken vase by laying the parts out on the table in front of themselves and engaging others that are interested to help.

One of the problems you and I have is that I have not met Virendra Dev Dixit. I am not PBK, I am still post-BKWSU. The label ex-BK is just one the forum software has given me. For me, as yet, Virendra Dev Dixit is still just a man, however good or bad. I respect his churning and metaphorical understanding of Gyan. I wish he was able to contribute directly here, with or without Shiva inside him. Sometimes Advanced Knowledge goes a little too far, or becomes a little too loose, for me to understand. You as a PBK could help a great deal by writing down the rest of the Advance Course instead of abstract quotes.

And where does it say, "that truth is not given to the public"? Is that Shrimat? May be. I always had in mind the Murlis I read about "hiring helicopters and drop leaflets". All the broken parts have got to all be resolved andrey.
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andrey

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Post13 May 2007

Dear Brother,

Where is the problem if people are willingly dedicating themselves, their life, money, property to the organisation, that even whatever you tell them they still don't mind, as are the cases with many? Where is the need to tell them what they are doing is not right and trying to "save" them if what they do they think they do right? What kind of light it is? The light will make them see things clearly. Surely, the correct history has to be revealed. There is nothing wrong with this, but for yourself, there is no need to stop anyone from doing anything, or revealing any shortcomings of anyone, because we are responsible for ourselves first. Then if we have light others will automatically be attracted and come to us by themselves, is it not?

Truth is given secretly, i mean personally, because in a large public there are various souls and general points will be given. For example, here not all points of the Advanced Knowledge can be given, because it will not seem right. They will be given to those who are interested to know more, then there are common points for all, and if there are leaflets to be dropped by airplane - something should be written inside. What will be written? God has come. Come and understand how to receive liberation and liberation in life in one second.
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