Gems of knowledge (Murli Points) for churning.

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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andrey

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Post13 Oct 2006

Dear John,

No, I am interested, but if there is no consequence to The Knowledge one has got, of what use it is for him. We of coarse have rememerance because we receive knowledge first. Of course, someone may understand some deep secrets, others not, but for me this knowledge is to make the mind peaceful and happy, to give answers to questions, not to make it stressed of thinking or churning over one and the same questions again and again, that give rise to more and more questions. Even cleverness is OK. I have seen Baba making a remark that we can have clever intellect etc., but we should not show off.

Dear shivsena,
Those who leave, leave due to their own karmic accounts. Will Baba cut our karmic accounts or will we cut it ourselves? It is said that when the curing starts, all the illnesses will emerge, but we should not be concerned. It should not occur that we say. 'oh previously nothing like this happened, before knowledge, now look what is my condition'. This condition, did Baba create this condition for you or did you create it for yourself. Just think 63 births of sin compared to few years of effort, definitely it will take some time. However, this boon of immortality is a matter of faith. Immortal means immortal stage of faith, that is numberwise for all. But we should be carefree even for those who leave their bodies that they will dfinitely reach benefit. This drama itself is beneficial. This third point that we should apply on the forehead is said to be little toughest.
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andrey

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List of topics

Post13 Oct 2006

In the Murli it is said we should create a list of topics.

1. Who is the God of the Gita?
2. What is the difference between God and a deity?
3. How we can become elevated and satopradhan from tamopradhan?
4. What is the difference between Heaven and Hell?

shivsena

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Post13 Oct 2006

Dear BK and PBK Brothers.

In Murlis it is said "Sab purush hai duryodhan - dushasan" ; meaning that ''all men are Duryodhan -Dushasan'' (these are 2 names of characters in mahabharat epic )
Now let us analyse what Shivbap is trying to say when he spoke these words.

If we take it literally then it means that all men(male-body) are duryodhan - dushasan. (that's it. )

Now if we analyse it in a very subtle sense then it carries a very deep meaning ; if Shivbap has said it in literal meaning then it means that He is looking at the body and describing the male body; but Shivbap is totally devoid of body-consciousness and he has come to give us knowledge of souls and not of bodies; when He himself teaches us to see the soul and not the body (deh ko mat dekho hamesha atma ko dekho) so logically He has to be speaking of quality of souls and not describing bodies;

Also we all know that in this world there are 4 types of persons:
1. men who have predominant male qualities.(agressive nature)
2. men who have predominant female qualities.(submissive nature)
3. women who have predominant feminine qualities.(submissive nature)
4. women who have predominant male qualities.(aggressive nature)

So the souls which can be classified in the category of Duryodhan-dushasan are obviously no. 1 and no. 4; So when Shivbap says the above words he is telling us that ''all souls with male qualities are duryodhan-dushasan'' (which includes all male-bodied souls with male qualities and all female bodied souls with male qualities); Then again the question arises : who are these souls Shivbap is refering to??

In the broad drama if you go back in time( exclude last 100 years) then you will find that only the kings fit into the aggressive and arrogant nature of souls while the queens were often submissive and soft ; and if you now revert back to the Sangamyugi Subtle Region of Brahmins then you will find that, in the end only the rudramala souls (irrespective of their body) will fit into the above category as they have been given the title "Kings of many births''(janam-janam ke raja)

The above detailed explanation may have been boring to read for many BKs and PBKs; but it was certainly not my aim to do so; It was just to prove that Shivbap's words in Murli are not to be taken in literal sense but one has to churn them very deeply to really understand what he is trying to aim at.
That is all. (i will be sharing more such gems of knowledge which have to be seen from all perspective before arriving at any conclusion)

shivsena.
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john

reforming BK

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Post13 Oct 2006

Andrey wrote:but for me this knowledge is to make the mind peacefull and happy,

I agree, if my questions cause you peacelessness, please just ignore them. I will not be offended
but if there is no consequence to The Knowledge one has got, of what use it is for him

True, but in what position are you putting yourself to think that you can decide what is useful or not?
but for me this knowledge is to make the mind peacefull and happy, to give answers to questions

Is it when you are unable to give an answer that you lose your peace? ... If so then please don't put the burden on yourself, it is not your job to be able to answer all questions
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button slammer

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Re: nectar

Post14 Oct 2006

shivsena wrote:If you are implying that Advanced Knowledge is the nectar of knowledge, then may I ask that why the PBKs have still not got the boon of immortality from the immortal Father (who is supposed to be giving them nectar every morning); I see the PBKs leaving the body and getting ill with various diseases and generally are in more bad shape than the BKs (financially or otherwise).

The 'boon of immortality' is based on recognition of that same Father we met a Kalpa ago. It is a sweet feeling that flows between the soul and the Father and sustains the soul. The 'boon of immortality' is based on purity. To the extent you match your mind with the immortal Father accordingly you will experience the 'boon of immortality'. And as Andrey has so accurately mentioned;
Immortal means immortal stage of faith, that is numberwise for all.

However, you do not accept that faith has any part on the path of knowledge, perhaps this is why you do not experience the 'boon of immortality' yourself.
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arjun

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Post14 Oct 2006

If you are implying that Advanced Knowledge is the nectar of knowledge, then may I ask that why the PBKs have still not got the boon of immortality from the immortal Father (who is supposed to be giving them nectar every morning); I see the PBKs leaving the body and getting ill with various diseases and generally are in more bad shape than the BKs (financially or otherwise).

Dear Shivsena Bhai,
Omshanti. I think you raised this issue in your discussion with Baba (recorded in Disc.CD no.151 / 152) and I think Baba said that the final nectar is yet to emerge because the churning is still going on by various souls.

As regards the physical or financial condition of the PBKs, I am unable to understand that while in most of your posts you prefer to see an unlimited meaning/subtle meaning of everything, you have chosen to see the literal condition of the PBKs without seing their inner strength. The army of Ram consisted of weak monkeys but they gained victory over the huge army of Ravana, did they not?

Moreover, Baba has said in the Advanced Knowledge that your bodies may become weak but your soul would continue to become powerful. You may be weak financially but you are rich in the gems of knowledge.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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john

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Post14 Oct 2006

Button Slammer wrote:The 'boon of immortality' is based on recognition of that same Father we met a Kalpa ago. It is a sweet feeling that flows between the soul and the Father and sustains the soul.

As Baba speaks of the world in terms of the Confluence Age, I think it can also mean souls at the start of Confluence Age reuniting with Father at the end.
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andrey

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Post17 Oct 2006

Dear Brother,
No, Baba says about the body, that all male bodies ar Duriodan-Dushashan.
By the way, if it is the soul of Krishna that plays the role of the Sangamyugi Krishna, then for whom it is said "from full beggar to full price". It is not for him /Krishna/, is it not so?

shivsena

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Post17 Oct 2006

Andrey wrote:Dear Brother,
No, Baba says about the body, that all male bodies ar Duriodan-Dushashan.
By the way, if it is the soul of Krishna that plays the role of the Sangamyugi Krishna, then for whom it is said "from full beggar to full price". It is not for him /Krishna/, is it not so?



Dear andrey Bhai.

That is what i want to know; if all male bodies are duryodhan-dushasan then Shivbap is looking at the body himself and telling us to forget the body and look at the soul; so this looks contra-dictory;

Sangamyugi Krishna is Krishna's soul in Ram's body as per the 7 days course in ''advance Gyan ki sanjeevni";and not Ram's soul in Ram's body; this is one point which none of the PBKs are clear about.

shivsena.
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andrey

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Post18 Oct 2006

Dear Brother,
Yes, Baba also says about the body He enters that he is Duriodan Dushashan. How do you think? Which stage will we achive first? Of brothers-sisters, or of bhai-bhai? Which is higher? Probably we weould achive the brother-sisters stage first where the body is visible. First we become complete Brahmins, then we may become complete devtas. I don't know where does and whether the angels come in between. Do they posess the incorporeal stage? What about the devtas?
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john

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Post19 Oct 2006

I have the whole set of Murlis from the period july 1965 to dec 1968

ShivsenaBhai

Is it the original versions of these Murlis that you have? If so, are you able to confirm whether the Murlis have been changed from the originals to the later revised versions? There are some Sakar Murlis on this site; Sakar Murli Collection.

From this are you able to spot any differences? Are the lengths of the original Murlis longer or about the same size or not?

shivsena

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Post20 Oct 2006

John wrote:Is it the original versions of these Murlis that you have?
If so, are you able to confirm whether the Murlis have been changed from the originals to the later revised versions?

Dear john Bhai.

I have almost the whole set of Murlis which are available to any PBK; it may not contain the full Murlis spoken datewise from 1965 to 1968 ; but they are all in original print and there are no question and answers as introduced in the later revised Murlis; and obviously they are all in Hindi and not translated in English; also i do not believe in reading the translated Murlis as the meaning of certain words may change thereby changing the meaning of the whole sentence; i also believe that in the end when Ramshivbaba wil be speaking the Murlis directly it will also be in Hindi and so it is very imperative for all PBKs to learn Hindi, if at all they are interested in reading and researching the original Hindi Murlis and also if they want to hear the Murlis right from Ramshivbaba's mouth in the end.

arjuna wrote:Omshanti. I think you raised this issue in your discussion with Baba (recorded in Disc.CD no.151 / 152) and I think Baba said that the final nectar is yet to emerge because the churning is still going on by various souls.

Dear arjuna Bhai.

When Baba has said in the cd that the final nectar is yet to emerge then does it not prove that all PBKs and including Krishna's soul in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit are still churning The Knowledge intensely and trying to find the elusive truth and nectar which will grant the boon of immortality to the PBKs numberwise; why do you still insist on seeing that each and every reply of Baba is the gospel truth given by Supreme Soul Shiva (in which case the nectar should be flowing out continously from the mouth of the present Chariot); don't you think something is amiss somewhere??

shivsena.

shivsena

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Post20 Oct 2006

Dear BK and PBK Brothers.

Which Father are we supposed to follow:

Shivbap or ... Rambap or ... Brahmabap.

If we do not know which Bap we are supposed to follow, then do we know what are we planning to become in future.

shivsena.
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andrey

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Post20 Oct 2006

First we become angels. Angels are those who have no connection with the world. Then we reach the Paramdham, then we become deities. So who is an angel? We follow Brahma Baba. Everyone pass through the Subtle Regions when reaching the Paramdham. Who is a resident of Paramdham, forever? the Supreme Bap Shiva, we follow him in this. Who becomes the firts Deity? We follow him - Narayan.

Is is also said about the body of Dada Lekraj that is Duriodan Dushashan, who has been with female qualities, so it applies to the body. And it is not a controversy that we should look at the soul and this will make us look at the body, no it is not a controvercy, because even when we are in a soul-concious state we are in a body and the eyes of the body work. So we see the body but it makes no difference, with the eye of the intellect we see the soul inside.
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john

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Post20 Oct 2006

Shivsena wrote:I also believe that in the end when Ramshivbaba wil be speaking the Murlis directly it will also be in Hindi and so it is very imperative for all PBKs to learn Hindi

Yes, I agree learning Hindi is very important to understand the Murlis on a more detailed accurate language level.

One thing to bear in mind is the advancement in technology, will it one day be possible to have instant accurate translators, say for instance on the internet ...
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