Gems of knowledge (Murli Points) for churning.

I am confused with the Hindi issue.

If Hindi was the necessity and translation will distort the original meaning, why bother to have anything translated in the first place, and why have Baba speak words in English (which are italics in BK Murlis) ?

If someone loves God, which language is needed to express this ?

One thing to bear in mind is the advancement in technology, will it one day be possible to have instant accurate translators, say for instance on the internet ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6083994.stm

Revised Murli 20.1.04

"...In the whole world it is just the one Father who doesn't take anything or do anything. Therefore, you children should think about whose children you are..."

I was thinking am i a child of such a Father? I take, i do ... So there should also be a corporeal Father (who takes and does) that we are all children of.

By heart

"How can He be the Father if you don't meet?"

Revised Murli 22.01.04

“...First of all there has to be faith in the soul that I’m imperishable...”
“...You have received an imperishable part in advance...”
“...The war will be very fearsome. They will bring out all materials they have prepared and natural calamities will also help. You have to attain your karmateet stage before then...”

Revised Murli 30.1.04

"...You are now becoming those with Baba's virtues and then you will become those who have the virtues of the deities..."

Revised Murli 23.1.04

"...It takes you children time to stay on the pilgrimage of rememberance..."

I am confused with the Hindi issue.

If Hindi was the necessity and translation will distort the original meaning, why bother to have anything translated in the first place, and why have Baba speak words in English (which are italics in BK Murlis) ?

If someone loves God, which language is needed to express this ?

Sister Bansy,

Omshanti. Although translation can lead to some distortion in the original meaning, but that should not be the reason for stopping translation altogether. In fact in one of the Sakar Murlis Baba has said that one should learn many languages, so that they could give Godly message to more number of souls. I don't think I will be able to trace the Murli easily, but I am sure I read that point. Knowing many languages definitely helps in better communication. But it would not be advisable to spend valuable time in learning other languages at the cost of neglecting Baba's remembrance & seva if you are in gyaan and already know your mother tongue, Hindi and English unless you want to do service in a particular region with a different language.

And will you leave a soul to starve of Godly knowledge simply because it does not know Hindi? Definitely not. Every soul has a right to receive Godly knowledge. But if it wants to understand The Knowledge first hand, it will have to learn Hindi, which I don't think is impossible to learn.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

But for those who wish to Follow Father even now, there is no dearth of examples in Sakar Murlis, Avyakt Vanis or in the role of Shankar.

Just to clarify, does anyone recall if "Follow the Father" was told in the Murlis prior 1969 ?

Just to clarify, does anyone recall if "Follow the Father" was told in the Murlis prior 1969 ?

Omshanti. As far as I know the words 'Follow Father' does not appear in the Sakar Murlis. It is a phrase that has been used only in the Avyakt Vanis.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Omshanti. As far as I know, Baba has said that Follow Father means following the Shrimat as enacted by Father Shiv through Brahma (Dada Lekhraj). Father Shiv played the role of a doer (karanhaar) through Brahma Baba and practically showed how to imbibe the virtues and knowledge. He did not care whether others followed Shrimat or not, but he tried to follow the Shrimat. How he followed the Shrimat can be gathered from the various Sakar Murlis, Avyakt Vanis and some BK literature.

Dear arjun Bhai.
It means that you are trying to follow bindi Shivbap in Lekhraj Kirpalani, which means that you are trying to follow someone in past whom you have not seen personally, just read about the part of Shivbap in Lekhraj Kirpalani through' books and hear-say; again it means that you are trying to remember bindi Shivbap in Dada Lekhraj(who has no body), which again means that you are emerging the subtle body of Lekhraj Kirpalani to remember Shivbap and try to become like Shivbap.

I am just not sure if this is the right thing to do; if we are trying to emulate Shivbap in body of Lekhraj Kirpalani are we not remembering bindibap in a dead man; then what is the meaning of "nirakar ko Sakar mein Yaad karo"; or does it mean that we have to remember Shivbap in body of Virendra Dev Dixit but we must follow only the karma he did through' the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani; is that what you are trying to say??

I find this whole exercise of remembering Shivbap in Virendra Dev Dixit and becoming like Shivbap in the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani as a duality of thoughts and the most ambigious part of the Advanced Knowledge; just ask this simple query (about ''Follow Father" )to as many PBKs you meet and you will surprised at the variety of answers you get in return.

When a simple query like this cannot be answered by senior PBKs then what else can you say about the Advanced Knowledge and its limitations.(which proves that it is nothing but Bhakti; subjective interpretations only but no objective answers.)

shivsena.

Dear arjun Bhai.

The below are the Murli points quoted by you in ''points for churning''.

· “BapDada dono hee bachhon kay servant hain. Tumhaarey doh servant hain. Oonch tay oonch ShivBaba, fir Prajapita Brahma.” (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 2.6.05, pg.4)

· “Both Bap and Dada are the servants of children. You have two servants. Highest among all, i.e. ShivBaba and then Prajapita Brahma.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 2.6.05, pg.4 published by BKs)

I just want to know, how both ShivBaba and prajapita Brahma are most obedient servants of children in Sangamyug; If ShivBaba is most obedient servant then he should come to visit the chldren when he is called by the children; but practical experience of most PBKs shows that ShivBaba comes only when he wishes and not when the children wish; also in some other Murli it is said that '' i do not come on calling, you cannot invoke ShivBaba; i come on my own at the right time."
So arjun Bhai, can you please clarify this ambiguity.
shivsena.

Omshanti. I have received the following answer from Baba to the above mentioned querry of Shivsena Bhai. I quote, "-------You do not seem to be accepting the versions in the Murlis and the Avyakt Vanis. It has been told in the Avyakt Vanis itself, 'karmon me Brahma ko follow karo aur direction me Bap ko' (i.e. follow Brahma in actions and follow the directions of Father). "

Dear arjun Bhai.

From Baba's answer, it means that first we have to read Brahma's biography after coming to basic knowledge; then understand how he lead his lifestyle and follow a dead man's action and then end up by leaving this body as Brahma did; is that what we are supposed to follow? ; on the contrary it is said in avaykt Vanis that "tum bacchon ko issi sharir mein rahkar farishta ban-na hai'' (while Brahma became a farishta by leaving the body); Also Brahma never attained the nirakari stage while we rudramala souls are going to achieve the nirakari stage numberwise and in this regard the 108 souls are going to surpass Brahma in purusharth.

Also if we are following Brahma in actions then we have to remember him time and again by emerging him in our thoughts(and this goes against the Murli point that you children should not remember Brahma or even keep his photo); The dillemma continues; (remember bindi Shivbap in Virendra Dev Dixit and follow a dead man's past actions);Is that what we are supposed to do???

shivsena.

Dear Brother shivsena,
Concerning the matter of Alpha and beta and who is the Sangamyugi Krishna. Alaf means allah – means the highest on high – It may mean the Supreme Soul Shiv (of course when it is in the body) and beta means the inheritance - means the soul who becomes the happiest in the world – it may mean the soul of the Sangamyugi Narayan or the one who transforms himself from a man into Narayan in the same birth or the soul of Ram who in his last birth becomes Shankar.

It could be the soul of Krishna that plays the part of the Sangamyugi Krishna, because Narayan becomes direct from Man into Narayan. However these are only my perceptions which may be wrong. I still study, maybe someone who is more experienced would be able to tell more accurately.

Dear Sweet Souls,

It is said in Advanced Knowledge that Dada Lekharaj (Brahma Baba) as was unable to understand the meaning of Sakshatkars (Holy sightings), Supreme Soul Shiv entered into Sevakram and explained the meaning of those Sakshatkars to Dada Lekharaj. The whole Advanced Knowledge is based on this assumption that Supreme Soul Shiv first entered into Sevakram and explained the meaning of Sakshatkars to Dada Lekharaj, thus sowed the seed of knowledge and hence Sevakram is Prajapita. Actually there is no proof for this assumption. On the other hand there are Murli points which contradict this assumption of PBKs.

Murli dt. 11-5-85, page-2:

Baba (Brahma Baba) ko uchhal aaye na. Ooho. Baba (Shiv Baba) vishwa ka malik banaate hain, phir yah dhan maal kya karenge. Chhodo sab. Jaise pagal hote hain na. Sab kahane lage inko baithe baithe kya hua. Dhanda aadi sab chhodkar aa gaye. Khushi ka paara chadha gaya. Sakshatkar hone lage. Rajayee milni hain. Parantu kaise milegi. Kya hoga yah kuch pata naheen. Bas milna hai. Usee khushi main sab chhod diya. PHIR DHEERE DHEERE KNOWLEDGE MILTI RAHTI HAI. Tum bachhe yahan school main aaye ho.

(In English):

Baba (Brahma Baba) cheered up, did not he. Wow. Baba (Shiv Baba) makes master of the universe, then what to do with this money and wealth. Leave everything. Like there are mad ones. Everybody started saying what happened to him without anything. Left all the business and came away. Holy sightings started to happen. Will get Kingdom. But how. what will happen knew nothing. Just will get it. Left everything in that happiness. THEN SLOWLY WILL BE GETTING KNOWLEDGE. You children have come to school here.

Murli dt. 1-4-85, page-3:

Baap khud bataate hain maine kaha tha mai sadharan boodhe tan main aata hoon. Aakar tumko padhata hoon. Yah bhi sunte hain, attention to hamare oopar hai. Yah bhi student hai. Yah apne ko aur kuch nahee kahate. Prajapita so bhi student hai. Bhal isne vinash bhi dekha parantu samjha kuch bhi naheen. AAHISTE AAHISTE SAMAJHTE GAYE. JAISE TUM SAMAJHTE JAATE HO. Baap tumko samjhate hain. Beech main yah bhi samajhte jaate hain. Padhate rahate hain. Harek student purusharth karega padhane ka.

(In English):

Father himself tells - I told I come in simple old body. Teach you after coming. This one also hears, attention is on me. This one is also student. This one says nothing more about himself. Prajapita is also student. ALTHOUGH HE ALSO SAW DESTRUCTION BUT UNDERSTOOD NOTHING. SLOWLY WENT ON UNDERSTANDING. AS YOU GO ON UNDERSTANDING. Father explains to you. In between this one also goes on understanding. Keeps on reading. Every student does Purusharth of studying.

Thanks.
Your,
Anamik.

Actually there is no proof for this assumption.

Actually there is evidence. (link to image below)

And, given the quality of that evidence, to say that there is no proof only leads one assume that the BKWSU have gone out of their way to re-write it, hide or destroy it because they have surely covered it for the last 50 years. I am afraid revised a Sakar Murli, in which The Knowledge and history have been re-written by the BKs, is no proof for anything.

Om Radhe, herself, stated that Lekhraj Kirpalani retired and started satsang in 1932. It she records that in 1938 sleeping partner Narain Shewakram still owed Lekhraj Kirpalani money. Until after 1950, there was no mention of Shiva, see a copy of the Original Cycle clearly dated 1949.

It says,

This World Drama is also called "Kalpa VRIKSHA", i.e. the Human World Tree lasting for a Kalpa (5000 years), of which Divine Father Prajapati God Brahma, COrporeal Re-incarnation of Incorporeal God Vishnu (Chaturbhuj) is the SEED ... revealed to us through Divine Insight bestowed by our beloved Divine Father Prajapati God Brahma ... World Almighty Authority, Prajapati God Brahma ... the Supreme Guide ...

No mention of Shiva, so where is your proof?

Also, tell us about The Golden Circle? I understand that Dadi Janki's Sister was a member and so, if her memory has not failed her, perhaps she would be a good source of proof about the early days.

Of course, Dadiji came late, then left, became married and pregnant, so perhaps she missed out on some of the events. But surely her honesty in all matters relating to God will assist us?
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Other useful piece of evidence to the cover up and re-writes are presented in the BKWSU History forum. Perhaps you would like to join us there to discover the truth?

Anamik, I want to point out one quotation in particular from the bottom right-hand side.

World Almightly Authority, Prajapati God Brahma, who has revealed His identity as the well-known Lord Shree Krishna Himself in His next birth in childhood and Sree Narain after coronation) has re-incarnated in ordinary human form along with His 108 most beloved Self-conering luckiest Divine Ones, male and females )whose rosary is worshipped by Bharatvasis) like Kalpa ago in Bharat on the banks of Sindhu Saraswati River in the year 1937 AD and has organised the most supreme Rajsuva Asvamedh Avinashi Gyan Yagya which lasts for 12 years though the Divine Power of "Supreme Aham Brahm Asmi" Faith.

So, please tell us what was this Yagya that Lekhraj Kirpalani said, or Shiva Baba allegedly agreed to through him, that was supposed to last for 12 years and end in 1949/1950?

Dear Brother,
But at other times it is said that he did not understand the visions and went to Banares and asked and did not understand, drawing circles on the wall, he did not know what to do on his own. Someone must have told him something.

In the book that ex-l mentions, it says he created a satsang because he liked to conquer greed, there is no mention of visions. Maybe in a book information is just put in "dressed up" way. We also know he used to organise satsangs with gurus previously. He used to have 12 gurus. He used to invite them in his house. It could be for these satsangs. But also Om Radhe came later on and so she does not know from her own experience.

Then in the second quote it says, he listens in between then Prajapta also studies. It very much sounds like that they are separate. There were also this quote somewhere from the Murli that says "I definitely need Brahma and also Prajapita Brahma so that i can come here" which very much sounds like two separate personalities. Yes, what is the strange thing in that the Prajapita also studies?

To quote a Murli that late from the BKWSU is pointless. How many times has it been re-edited?

Here is a large format of The Cycle above which you can read; Original 1949 Tree.

In the book that ex-l mentions, it says he created a satsang because he liked to conquer greed, there is no mention of visions.

There is no mention of visions or Lekhraj Kirpalani acting as a medium. They refer to the general visions as "Divine Insights". Some exact quote are,

The Om Mandli was started at Hyderabad about 4 years back in the family house of the founder by name Bhai Lekhraj Khubchand Kirpalani a well connected member of the Bhaibund community and a merchant of repute doing Jewellery business in Calcutta. He belongs to a well known religious family and is the nephew of Bhai Mulchand a well know philanthropist and co-worker of late Dewan Dayaram Gidumal. From very early times, Bhai Lekhraj was a critic of the depraved condition of the Bhaibund community of Hyderabad, the utter lack of education and culture among its members, its colosal social evils, the most deplorable condition of their women folk and the want of any real upbringing of boys and girls of the community.

In 1932 Bhai Lekhraj retired from business and returned to Hyderabad. According thim doing business for profit meant being a slave to one of the five vices viz. "Lobh" (Avarice). He had no further desire for worldly riches and such as he possessed, her determined to expend in the cause of humanity and his community without expecting any reward or publi applause. At first he imparted his ideas at small family gatherings of theose who came for Satsang (religious discourses) in his family home called after the name of his wide as "Jasodas Nivas". Subsequently as the number of visitors grew it was turned into a private institution and was named "Om Mandli".

The membership grew from day to day and after about 3 years it rose to 500 made up of mean and women. A committee originally of 9 and subequently of 17 women members of the Mandli was formed.

You wil notice a number of differences to the "Official Version" that raise questions about the integrity of the BKWSU leadership and their historical propaganda. It mentions only in passing "others (NOT Lekhraj Kirpalani) having trance conditions about which so much mis-understanding has been created"

Trance conditions may be caerfully studied. Whether sub-conscious, or social suggestive or super-conscious states are induced. The nature of the visions.

The effect on health, intelligence etc: of the pupils and others who go into trance. For the trance condition may become helpful or harmful to the body andsoul and mind and needs careful direction. Experience, recorded experience of others should be studied. For the sake of service let us learn how to be most helpful and least harmful to those in trance.

There is an initial chanting of 'Om' to the accompaniment of harmonium and then two or three of the Bhajans (hymns) expressive of the ideals of the Om Mandli and then again chanting of Om. Some one of the children or lady teachers or experienced members of the management then occupy the small low wooden seat and utter their own inspirations, followed up by an explanation of one of the newly composed sacred songs of the Mandli.

"Aham Braham Asmi" I am the Brahm, the Lord and "Tat Tuwamasmi" and that art thou too. Every one is this when he realises himself the Lord, and every one who he or she sees is really his or her own very self.

They call themself students of Brahma-Vidya, students of Aliph

We were surprised to see that even in the absence of Dada Lekhraj the whole affair was carried out with such a regularity that in ourminds sufficient respect was created about the Bhaibund Sisters. Our intelligence knew no bounds when we heard a 16 year old girl's explanatory discourse on self-realisation for over 60 minutes

Was this just "class" or was this Shiv's medium of The Golden Circle? When did Shiv appear?

There are plenty of glowing witness reports, many identical, of how wonderful the Mandli and a ot of really boring and quite silly legal letter writing and the Government Tribunal sums up their point of view basis of the evidence in front of them;

"The garb of religion is used to cover Dada Lehkraj's activities. He knows nothing of religion and has never practised any. His cult furthers the object he had in view. He is God, themembers of the Om Mandli to whim he imparts Gian becomes Gods; a God can commit no sin ... they cannot sin."

"It is our deliberate conclusion that the institutions Om Mandli and Om Nivas are not only useless but are a canker in society. The interests of society in general and of Hindus in paticular demand their suppression

There is no mention of Shiva, no mention of nuclear weapons, no mention of Raja Yoga (how can there be without Shiva?)