Gems of knowledge (Murli Points) for churning.

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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john

reforming BK

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Post13 May 2007

andrey wrote:There is no need for any documents for proof whether BKs lie or not. If they lie it is their loss,
Andrey

You say it all here.

Your interest is just self interest, you have no real interest in justice, truth and benefit for the world. You might as well be saying what does it matter if souls lie and bring false allegations against Virendra Dev Dixit, it is their loss.

All is connected, it is not just their loss it is our loss. What purpose does the attitude 'it doesn't matter it is their loss', serve. So if someone makes a false allegation against Virendra Dev Dixit and you can show it is false, what are you going to say, 'it doesn't matter, it is their loss'?
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andrey

PBK

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Post13 May 2007

Dear Brother, what is said in the Murli?

If someone speaks false allegations we just listen with one ear and let it out from the other. We are not the Supreme justice. It is said we should not take the law into our own hands and become reformists of others. You know the slogan. We change and the world changes. If we feel force seeing something wrong then we are on the wrong. It is especially mentioned in the latest Avyakt Vani that we should not have bad feelings for those who we think do something wrong.

We should not suffer loss in any case. If he has come to give heaven in hell, then whatever may happen, but we should pay attention that we don't give sorrow and take sorrow. How many times it has been said that we should not look at others, and become busy with ourselves. Thinking of the self is The Ladder to progress and when we look others we lose. We don't confront anyone. BKs may play their own tune. We don't look them. We play our own tune.
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john

reforming BK

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Post13 May 2007

Then who in the PBKs makes all the points to prove the BKs wrong in their interpretation of Gyan?
BKs may play their own tune. We don’t look them. We play our own tune.

That is complete and utter b***sh*t, where's your head at man?
Dear Brother, what is said in the Murli? If someone speaks false allegations we just listen with one ear and let it out from the other. We are not the Supreme justice.

So is this what happened at the time Virendra Dev Dixit had allegations and was sent to jail, everyone followed what you are saying and just listened with one ear and out the other? Is that the advice you would give if it happened again?

Suppose someone made false allegations about you and because of it you had a big fine or could be sent to jail. Are you going to say, "it doesn't matter about these allegations, just listen with one ear and out the other, who are we to judge what these people say".
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andrey

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Post13 May 2007

Previously there were no interpretations of Gyan. Just when Baba has started to clarify the Murlis, then also others had started their own interpretations. We don't give the Advanced Knowledge with the desire to prove anyone wrong. We present it, because we belive it to be the correct knowledge.

As far as i know he was not guilty still went to jail but there are speculations regarding the matter. What is your concern if someone is sent to jail. So many people go to jail and even when they are not guilty. Who is Baba for you to be interested in his life.
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john

reforming BK

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Post13 May 2007

andrey wrote:Previously there were no interpretations of Gyan. Just when Baba has started to clarify the Murlis, then also others had started their own interpretations. We don't give the Advanced Knowledge with the desire to prove anyone wrong.

So what is the part of Shankar?
What is your concern if someone is sent to jail. So many people go to jail and even when they are not guilty. Who is Baba for you to be interested in his life.

My point is to hi-light how you are applying Gyan in an unrealistic way. I believe you have totally misunderstood the point 'in one ear and out the other' and are applying it like an armchair Brahmin.

OK, in another part of the Yagya. When allegations were made against Lekhraj Kirpalani in the early part of the Yagya, did the BKs say 'in one ear and out the other' or did they move to defend Brahma?

I believe the meaning behind 'in one ear and out the other' is 'to not be effected by it', to not come down by criticism and to not over blow your ego through praise. I don't think it means be blase, put your head in the sand and take no action, when action is needed.
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ex-l

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Post13 May 2007

andrey wrote:Just when Baba has started to clarify the Murlis, then also others had started their own interpretations.

Which Baba? There are at least 3.
john wrote:OK, in another part of the Yagya. When allegations were made against Lekhraj Kirpalani in the early part of the Yagya, did the BKs say "in one ear and out the other" or did they move to defend Brahma?

What Lekhraj Kirpalani did was to step back and hand over everything to the trust so that, in my opinion, he could not be attacked and it not taken from him. Then what the committee did was to refuse to engage in the legal proceedings, even to acknowledge their legality, and refuse to come to the tribunal and defend themselves. So they refused to indite themselves because, in my opinion, any statements made in a court would have become public record and at that time, they were in full Prajapati God Brahma mode. The Om Mandli Bhaibund Committee knew too much of the truth as, Narain Shewakram, and others were with them.

The English speaking agent for the Om Mandli whoever it was, because I do not believe it was Om Radhe, just wrote endless letters back and forward ignoring the issue. It is a one sort of slippery lawyerly trick. In my opinion, they had to avoid going into open court and have Lekhraj Kirpalani testify. It would have been interest though.

Since day one The Knowledge has been colored by who ever was speaking it. It did not even start out complete. Andrey, why did Lekhraj Kirpalani start by writing down notes and sending them to a "Senior Sister" for her to check? Was she a medium for "Shiva the Opinionless"? Or was she adding her interpretation of checking his interpretation?
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andrey

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Post14 May 2007

Dear Brother John,

It is said in the Murli that Shankar does not have much of a part to play. On the path of Bhakti he is most often shown to just be sitting in concentration. Part is played through the body. To sit in Yaad cannot be told so much of a part.

We understand that The Knowledge that is given is given by ShivBaba and his part is of the Father to give the inheritance, as the teacher to teach the Murli and Avyakt Vani, and as guru to liberate us and save us. Yes, it is said that there is Destruction through Shankar, but this destruction is not done directly. It is said that the practical work of Destruction is done by the Shiv Shaktis. When one true knowledge is given, then all other knowledge is automatically proven false and this knowledge is imbibed and spread by the Shiv Shaktis.

It is often said in the Murli that if someone is attacking us we shold not react, we should not seek or lay justice ourselves. It happens when we don't believe there is Supreme justice. Everything is accurate. Yes, we should not be affected by anything. What we should do is to report the one who is on the wrong. We should not take actions to correct him ourselves. The one who is responsible to correct him will correct him.

Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit says that we cannot do anything with our childish power. That's why the Almighty Father has come and is responsible. It is also said that it is a sign of anger to take the law into ones own hand. To say what is right and what is wrong is not our task. Drama is accurate. There is nothing wrong. Sometimes we just lack tolerance power. Of course we should face the enemy, but we should know who is friend - who is enemy. One is friend and all become enemies. Our Saviour is one and he is friend to all.

However if you say that this approach is not correct, then which approach is correct? What will happen in the country if we all start seeking justice ourselves? It is the mafia and the terrorists that work like this. It is said that the highest religion is non-violence. It is, of course, practical knowledge for our life. In each situation we find the corresponding solution. One does not know in advance what kind of situation will come and how should he react.

Dear Brother ex-l

I don't know a lot about the Senior Sister and these early days in the Yagya. I know that someone used to dictate to Brahma Baba, then he used to write. Who was that, who was this Senior Sister? I think there should be the reverse approach. First let's find what he has written, then we'll try to guess who will have written such thing. If we can find what corrections are made, we can see the attitude they are made with. Otherwise it is blind faith. If someone says, "God speaks" and we accept without checking. We see what he speaks and judges, so our attention must go to the points. However, if these Father, mother, younger mother from the beginning of the Yagya used to be there and were senior to Brahma Baba, and if we believe in rebirth, they will be present somewhere and still be Seniors to Brahma Baba.

We know Brahma Baba is the Moon of knowledge and does not have his own light. It was only later when he used to narrate Murlis, and it was not him but the Supreme Soul who gave the milk of knowledge through him to us. Now the milk is churend and we have ready made butter to eat.
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john

reforming BK

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Post14 May 2007

ex-l wrote:The English speaking agent for the Om Mandli whoever it was, because I do not believe it was Om Radhe, just wrote endless letters back and forward ignoring the issue. It is a one sort of slippery lawyerly trick. In my opinion, they had to avoid going into open court and have Dada Lekhraj testify. It would have been interest though.
In the book Adi Dev it says Om Radhe went to court.
Andre wrote:It is often said in the Murli that if someone is attacking us we shold not react, we should not seek or lay justice ourselves. It happens when we don't believe there is Supreme justice. Everything is accurate. Yes, we should not be affected by anything. What we should do is to report the one who is on the wrong. We should not take actions to correct him ourselves. The one who is responsible to correct him will correct him.

The action I am talking about is reporting the matter or defending yourself in court. I am not talking about physical action or attacking back the person who attacks you in a physical or verbal manner. If someone is to go to court over allegations then they should prepare a defence or have it prepared for them. This in the real world could take a lot of time and effort.
However if you tell that this approach is not correct, then which approach is correct. What will happen in the country if we all start seeking justice ourselves.

I was referring to seeking justice through the court system. Which is what my examples were about.

Andrey wrote
When one true knowledge is given, then all other knowledge is automatically proven false

Exactly, which is why it is important to reveal the truth. Yet you are saying what does it matter about the BKs being accurate and telling the truth.
As regards Sankar it is said there is also subtle destruction, which can mean the destruction of falsehood being given by BKs.
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ex-l

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Post14 May 2007

andrey wrote:I don't know a lot about the Senior Sister and these early days in the Yagya. I know that someone used to dictate to Brahma Baba, then he used to write. Who was that, who was this Senior Sister?

One name I have so far is Sangtri Dadi. From Vishwa Ratan's book;
Baba then summoned Sangtri Dadi, who was a trance messenger, and asked her to go to Baba and tell Him that we are designing the part of the Kalpa Tree where the eight children are to be shown. Ask Him the names of those who are to be seated there. Sangtri Dadi did so and the next day Baba told me the names. These were: - Didi Man Mohini, Dadi Prakashmani, Dadi Brij Indra, Dadi Dhyani, Dadi Shantamani, Dadi Brijshanta, Dada Vishwa Kishore and Vishwa Ratan. I put the photos of the three Dadis and one Brother on the left and the same number on the right. "

Who was Lekhraj Kirpalani asking when he said, "Ask Him" in 1939? Avyakt Brahma? I do not know this is her or the only one. I am waiting to find out more information of the Golden Circle and, perhaps, Dadi Janki's Sister.

Its frustrating because now we know we cannot trust the versions of the BKWSU to be accurate and they cover things up.

I don't believe that there is one rule that is be applied to everyone's life. Submissive folk have to learn to become more dominant, domineering folk have to learn to hold back. The Murli says both. In the early BKWSU, and still today, they have an over regard for worldly authority, conformity and appearances. You would be very lucky to find yourself in a country with an independent court system and an efficient unbribable police force and very lucky to find yourself in a center that encourages novelty and experimentation.

I am concerned because it is the passivity to the point of fear that allows every authority from the Pope Innocents to the Dadi Jankis to get away with excesses because the weak are taught to be too afraid and accepting of their karma to come forward and challenge when they ought to.
john wrote:In the book Adi Dev it says Om Radhe went to court.

Well, this is all from the book written in Om Radhe's name called "Is this Justice", 1939. Its 250 pages long. You should put it on your shopping list. They play ping-pong with the Tribunal (it was not a proper court case) by letter for weeks and just ignored the actual hearing.
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john

reforming BK

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Post14 May 2007

ex-l wrote:Well, this is all from the book written in Om Radhe's name called "Is this Justice", 1939. Its 250 pages long. You should put it on your shopping list. They play ping-pong with the Tribunal (it was not a proper court case) by letter for weeks and just ignored the actual hearing.

Is any book a totally accurate reference? I believe the pieces will have to put together from several sources.

surya

PBK

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Narayan

Post21 May 2007

Are we sitting in front of Narayan - The World Emperor?
Yes according to the clarification below…read on?

I see you all talking about Sakar Murlis, quoting Sakar Murlis here and there so I would like to ask if any of you have the original version of the Sakar Murli of 30th March 1969!? For us to compare original with clarification. Because from the Clarification of this Murli by Baba Virendra Dev Dixit (Murli 30-3-69 register 2 page 65 tape 305) this is the passage that puzzles me a lot, I read it so many times that I know it by heart!
It says:

"When eighty four births were completed then it can be called many births. In what year? In the year 1936. In the year 1936 when their many births got complete, meaning the 84th birth got completed not just at the end of it but at the end of end of it, then he comes. When 84 births were completed what names did they get? Prajapita and Prajamata. So he comes at the end of the end of their 84 births. Is Prajapita's birth alokik or lokik? It is a lokik birth because there is a body and it is also alokik birth. So after giving up the body when that soul takes another birth then his age of hundred years is counted into this birth.

Until these 100 years are completed it can not be called the 84th birth. His age of 100 years gets completed in the year 1976. So in 1976 his last 84th birth, when gets completed then I enter him. That is why it is said at the end of the end of this one's many births I enter him. This birth is an extraordinary birth from the year 1976. It is the 84th birth yet it is the first birth according to the new world.

So the souls who come first in the beginning only they take the full 84 births. That is why it is called the Bhaghayashali rath (most fortunate Chariot). Who is called the Bhaghayashali rath? The one whom I enter at the end of the end of his many many births. I enter into him and make them (inko) from human being to Devta. By saying inko (them) who is he pointing towards?

When Prajapita is revealed in 1976, how many souls worked through him? Three souls. The one who enters is Shiv and the other two souls present in that body are the souls of Ram and Krishna. Brahma is in a form of a moon, in the form of the third eye is Shiv himself and the bodily being is the soul of Ram. Devtas are in Satyug and when did the Satyug start? When did Baba declared the starting of Satyug? In 1966 Brahma said that in 10 year's time the old world will be destroyed and the new world will be established."

Best wishes
Surya

shivsena

ex-PBK

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Re: Narayan

Post23 May 2007

surya wrote: I see you all talking about Sakar Murlis, quoting Sakar Murlis here and there so I would like to ask if any of you have the original version of the Sakar Murli of 30th March 1969!? For us to compare original with clarification. Because from the Clarification of this Murli by Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit (Murli 30-3-69 register 2 page 65 tape 305) this is the passage that puzzles me a lot, I read it so many times that I know it by heart!

Dear surya Bhai.

You have read the clarification of the Murli (Dated 30-3-69 register 2 page 65 and tape 305) but have you ever bothered to go and get the original Murli and read the original Murli at least 5-7 times? As has been said by Shivbap in Murlis, that each Murli has to be read at least 5-7 times to understand it fully. Nowhere in Murlis it is said that you have to listen to the cassettes or VCD* or to read the translations of Murli clarifications many times. You have been completely ignoring the original Murlis of Shivbap and just wanting someone to send you the original Murlis at your doorstep and you do not want to take any pains to get hold of the Murlis of Shivbap (which can be very easily obtained, if you write to Kampil for xerox copies from the register of Murlis).

shivsena.

surya

PBK

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Re: Narayan

Post23 May 2007

but have you ever bothered to go and get the original Murli and read the original Murli at least 5-7 times

Thanks bro,

Thats what I am saying I would like to see the original. Do you have the original Murli? Can you post here the same passage from the original? Please!!!!!!... :D
you have been completely ignoring the original Murlis of Shivbap and just wanting someone to send you the original Murlis at your doorstep and you do not want to take any pains to get hold of the Murlis of Shivbap (which can be very easily obtained, if you write to Kampil for xerox copies from the register of Murlis).

No, I am not ignoring it. I did not know how to get it till you said it. Thanks!!!!!!

Kind regards.

shivsena

ex-PBK

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Post24 May 2007

surya wrote: Thats what I am saying I would like to see the original. Do you have the original Murli? Can you post here the same passage from the original? Please!!!!!!...

Dear surya Bhai.

I am not going to post any Murli on the forum. I will quote only the Murli points (gems of knowledge) which i feel, carry a very deep meaning (and post my churnings about the same).

shivsena.

surya

PBK

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original text Murli

Post24 May 2007

I am not going to post any Murli on the forum. I will quote only the Murli points (gems of knowledge) which I feel, carry a very deep meaning (and post my churnings about the same).

Bro, Hi

Not the whole Murli just that passage, just that. I want to see what is clarification and what is not. In the clarification I have is not marked what was in original Murli and what was the clarification. I want to see the difference on the text without the clarification done by Baba(Virendra Dev Dixit).

Do you get me?!:roll:
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