The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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enlightened

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post09 Feb 2015

ex-l wrote:I don't think anyone can really give you a "fix" via the internet site. I doubt whether anyone can really give you a "fix" in personal either ... but I do think other ex-BKs can offer a little more than others because we too know how it feels and can listen.

I think most ex BKs wont want to get involved!!
When things get bad, you need some instant fixes and sometimes it can be as simple as a hot bath, sweet tea, a day or two in bed to sleep it all out, watch a weepie movie to get some sadness out of you etc.

I often do these kind of things too!!
One of the difficult things to know, when it gets like that, is how much is just us, our body chemistry or environment and how much is BK-ed. I remember you have lost a lot more than most.

You could be right there but I do feel a lot has to be with BK dogma and abuse!
I would like to say that I think part of what you are experiencing is beyond BK ... it's real life, a part of real life that most people don't face, don't want to face and work to avoid through 10,000 means including bogus religions. You might even say that is one thing religions are set up to do ... mental plugs/life crafts for the storms of life.
I am afraid that it feel likes a lifetime of effort to face everything I have been subjected to just to then learn how to cope with life in the best way possible. That doesn't mean that I will ever be able to escape the damage done to me etc
Unfortunately, as an ex-BK you've sort of seen through it all and they don't work any more. You're facing the hard realities of life that only a few do ... 'walking across the abyss or void' not know why, where it is taking you, what or if the other side is.

Too true!!
I cannot offer you any mental comforts as far as those feelings go. I actually don't think there is any reason or point to life. I don't think there are any answers. You're here. You can do what you want or can get away with. You've got to work out a way of coping and dealing with all the stupid and nasty morons out there, or choose to just let go and die. Except even that is not easy either!

I am damned if I do and damned if I don't!!
If you were an animal, which animal would you be now and which animal would you like to be?
The only thing that comes to mind is a bird flying free from the cage that the BK's trapped me in. Only, it's hard to even fully come out of the cage and jump around let alone to fly
But it's also good the rest of the world sees what a **** up the BKs make of people's lives ... I was hearing about another BK that ended up being sectioned in a mental hospital. How many more people do the fraudsters have destroy before they stop what they are doing?

Spot on
May expressing your anger a little back at them might do you good ... I remember someone saying something like, "depression is congealed anger". It may not be always and absolutely true ... but it might be something to work with.

Work in progress ...
I'd like to have the opportunity to tell the twisted crapbags what twisted crapbags they are. Someone has to tell them to get it through their thick heads

I somewhat agree

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

Enlightened
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ex-l

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post10 Feb 2015

enlightened wrote: I think most ex-BKs wont want to get involved!!

I disagree. There may be limits but I am sure most would give you time of the day.

Back to your little bird hoping in and out the cage. What's to stop it flying off?

We need to transform that somehow.
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exbkmember

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post10 Feb 2015

I have many issues and have had a lot of therapy. It is true that it can seem an endless pile of stuff to work through. I think BK and other cults attract the vulnerable. It is very sad. It was a heartbreaking disappointment seeing all the false promise of BK life unravel. Sometimes I feel like the disappointment stole away my sense of trust, I left nearly 10 years ago and I still feel sad about the destroyed hope I once had when entered BK life.

I do think that talking about it helps though. I recently returned all my BK books, Murlis and other BK stuff. I held on to it all for 10 years just incase I would return. They shredded the lot but I am glad I gave it back to them. Felt like admitting to myself it is over.

I still struggle a lot with my emotional health etc. I find I survive by enjoying as much as I can on good days and by holding on to the will to fight with all I have on bad days. There are good people in the world and there is love and kindness to be found and given. Somehow that keeps me going but yes it is really hard sometimes , a lot of times really. I am sending you a virtual hug x
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ex-l

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post10 Feb 2015

exbkmember wrote:I recently returned all my BK books, Murlis and other BK stuff. I held on to it all for 10 years just incase I would return. They shredded the lot ...

Why "shredded"?

I suppose the Murlis were of an older revision so they want to hide them, but did they consider your ownership had made them impure or something? How was meeting them again, do you think it had any effect on them?
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exbkmember

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post10 Feb 2015

Yes, the Murlis were shredded. I imagine due to being out of date with revisions. I think that is true of the books too. I have not stayed that closely conected to what is going on in BK world in recent years but I get impression from a quick look around here and what was said that they present themselves and teachings differently now from when I was around. The books I had were out of date with how they do things now.

I was spoken to when I returned them but not invited in beyond the entrance hallway. I was again quizzed on why I left and if I might be better off coming back. I reeled off my usual list of why I left and why I was not coming back. I was not treated unkindly exactly in the brief chat but it did leave me quite upset for a few days. I supose that is why I found my way back here. It mainly upsets me that I lost the close feeling I once had to BK members who felt like family but who now pity me.

I know I am seen as impure and corrupted by Maya etc now. Even though I believe all that to be rubbish, it still hurts because I had so much love for my local BK family. They filled the need I had for a family. It hurts that I lost the feeling of belonging somewhere. I know it was never real in the way I thought it was at the time I was a BK. Me not fitting in anywhere and feeling lost is what made me vulnerable to BK in first place. I still have a lot of those issues. I imagine I would still have those issues regardless of if I had ever been in BK or not though. It is the sense of loss that BK added. I felt hope and belonging for a while with BK and then when I saw the reality of BK over the years the hope and belonging were lost.

I have been married and divorced since leaving BK life. That was very sad too but being in a cult has a very deep impact. I found ex relationships easier to get over than BK involvement. I don't blame BK for all my issues but I do think they should be stopped because they lie and manipulate.

quantum

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post10 Feb 2015

Thanks for sharing that exbkmember. It was clear and honest, and really showed me that we are just 'commodies', 'products' of the BK service industry. Yes, it really is just a business selling bogus religion and bogus God largely based on 'fairly tales', not true knowledge, and a good does of Fear of the end of the world thrown in the mix to keep the products adherents ... hopefully you can feel free of them now and find a group/contacts that you enjoy and they accept you as you are and you can be a lot happier.

There are many people who feel lost and not fitting in, but I would say, stay hopefull. Maybe try searching the internet for a more inclusive and accepting group of people. They are out there.

Best wishes
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ex-l

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post10 Feb 2015

I wonder if shredding is their new policy?

Apparent from a little dishonest, it's sad they don't even value their own history and evolution.

But we know why the don't.

If anyone else has any vintage BK stuff speak to us first. May be we can save it?
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enlightened

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post10 Feb 2015

exbkmember wrote:I have many issues and have had a lot of therapy. It is true that it can seem an endless pile of stuff to work through. I think BK and other cults attract the vulnerable. It is very sad. It was a heartbreaking disappointment seeing all the false promise of BK life unravel. Sometimes I feel like the disappointment stole away my sense of trust, I left nearly 10 years ago and I still feel sad about the destroyed hope I once had when entered BK life.

That is very sad!! I feel very much the same if not worse!
I do think that talking about it helps though.

I totally agree, I have to talk about it but can only do so to a professional therapist. most people out there would either not understand what I am going through or don't give two hoots about it! so I have to try and refrain from talking about it
I still struggle a lot with my emotional health etc. I find I survive by enjoying as much as I can on good days and by holding on to the will to fight with all I have on bad days. There are good people in the world and there is love and kindness to be found and given. Somehow that keeps me going but yes it is really hard sometimes , a lot of times really.
I am pretty much the same. daily survival is extremely challenging let alone doing anything else
I am sending you a virtual hug x
Thank you for the virtual hug! much appreciated.

I am glad to hear that I am not the only one on this forum feeling like ****!!
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enlightened

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post10 Feb 2015

ex-l wrote:I disagree. There may be limits but I am sure most would give you time of the day. I think most ex-BKs wont want to get involved!!

I am not so sure ex-I!! who
Back to your little bird hoping in and out the cage. What's to stop it flying off?

And what exactly do you mean by the first sentence!! as to what stops me from flying! I wish I knew the answer to that myself!! Perhaps my wings of BK brainwashing are bigger than the cage door!! Perhaps the wings of guilt and shame kick in. Perhaps I still have years more of healing to do before I feel a real sense of freedom! Who knows! Your guess is as good as mine. If only it were as simple as just getting out of the cage and flying!
We need to transform that somehow.

Easier said than done! It certainly is not happening overnight in my case. Sometimes I wonder if I will ever be able to get out of this mess.
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exbkmember

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post11 Feb 2015

Yes if it is any comfort I very often feel awful, I regularly feel suicidal. I am very sensitive and get very very upset about the way the world is and the way my life has been. I think probably most Western BK members at least are probably the sensitive sort. The world seems bleak and BK offer a reason and an alternative way of looking at things that for a time maybe helped some of us to feel a little better. Then we realize what a load of hypocritical narcissists run BK and that what initially seemed safe and comforting was all too good to be true.

I spent most of my youth trying to understand the meaning of life and find some spiritual path that fit with me. I carried on searching after I left BK. The result as of now is that I admit to myself I do not have the answers and probably in this life at least I will not find them. I have no way to know if there is a God of any sort. I no longer have any interest really in religions. I only trust my own personal experiences now. I have experienced feeling love and care for others and also on occasions I have experienced feeling loved and cared for. Based on that I believe in love and compassion.

The horrid scary stuff in life is so glaringly obvious. The only thing that makes living bearable for me is having someone to love and to love me and to be able to freely express my feelings in every way. BK life denied me that freedom. Now I am out of BK I am at least free to love and be loved and also to cry my eyes out without the added guilt trip of worrying about keeping up appearances of expected BK angelicness that involved not showing negative emotions (not that emotions are really negative exactly). I personally think being upset and tearful a lot is a totally natural response to life as it is. I give myself permission to feel my feelings.

The most important thing for any quality of life I think is to have at least one really good friend who can share anything with. My best friend who I tell anything to can not really relate to my time in BK so if I need to talk about that I talk to other ex BK members I know if I can or I come on here. There are people who want to help. I don't know how to be a really happy person or even a remotely emotionally stable person but I care when I read someone is in pain and I wish I knew how to help more. There are people in my life who I know would like to help me if they knew how. That just has to count for something.

I Know for my own healing that I really need to learn to love, respect and care for myself more and to forgive myself. Putting that into practice is so much harder than I think it should be but slowly slowly there is some progress I think. Gentleness is something I need to treat myself with more. I wish it was easier but there are a lot of people in same similar struggles. Knowing that does not make it any easier exactly but I do get some sense that I am not really alone even though I often feel very alone. Sometimes it helps me if I let myself feel angry about all the big and little things I think are wrong with life. Life is not fair. Sometimes I get a little relief from just feeling the anger and pain of that and then finding the fight to keep living and clinging to any happy bits of life. Cheering people up is possibly not one of my strengths. It matters though that you are in pain, I do not think it is OK for anyone to be in pain. I full on resent suffering in the world. I really do share in your frustrations
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ex-l

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post11 Feb 2015

enlightened wrote:I am not so sure ex-I!! who

I would. I am sure if you reached out others would. If you are not geographically close, then there are cheap overseas phone cards and Skype these days.

Personally, I am actually surprised how *little* in life anyone changes. BKs and New Agers etc go on about how "transformed" they are, as if it was 100% different but, for me, they come across much the same. It's just a new way of talking, some homilies to be accepted by a group. Probably the two things I do see changing people are acting classes - learning to be someone else/confidence expression etc ... even just learn different accents - and willingly breaking fears and taboos by doing them (not over thinking). "Getting things out of your system".

Like you, things happened to me when I was young that absolutely formed me and made things difficult. They no doubt shaped my life and it's sad/painful/frustrating that I do not know what life would have been like without the effects of them.

But I've never been fortunate enough to go down the root of therapy etc. I have no idea if they work.

What they "spiritual healing" is quite pleasant, even if it is just some just putting their hands on you lovefully.

Yes, I can agree with the "sensitive" theory. Life is a nasty fist fight for the most part, it rewards 'smash and grab' types and actions. And the UK, probably much of the West, is becoming noticeable worse in that department. I think part of the problem with being an ex-BK is that you have had the rose tinted glasses removed and see it for what it is.

I remember also one of the first outstanding Western BKs to leave speaking - a then young, attractive, intelligent woman (and the BKs love there blonde angels). She was some who was very much being lined up to be, say, Jayanti's junior. Jenny was her name.

As she started to see through the illusion, she critiqued the BKs for manipulating her to feel she was special and strong, when in fact she realised she was weak and just running away and escaping. I think they actually make most of us more weak and not fit in, so they can monopolise us. They re-make us to fit into their world and serve them. At best you might become one of their courtiers. There's more to life than that.

I really don't think I have fixes and answers, all I can do is swop my notes and observations on the way. Here's a harsh, harsh truth ... biologically (from evolution) the vast majority of not just species but individual entities fail. They die, get destroyed, or more likely eaten by a predator. So too socially! Have you evolved a survival strategy yet? Just to "survive" means you are actually in the top 0.0001% already (approx)! Now just make your nest a little more safe and comfortable, and feed nourish yourself with experiences to grow.

I accepted I was dumb a long time ago and joining BK set me back far more ... at least a decade or more. I also accepted periods of being "down" or alone were necessary times for me to re-think life and try and add it up. I am still way behind where I should have been by now. They did not help at all.

In your case, your family were BK too, yes? I forget. That must be worse.

quantum

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post11 Feb 2015

Dear Enlightened,
I have PM you to offer some help and support, where i can. You are not alone, and we do care. Pleaz feel free to PM me or post here as you wish. Sending you a big hug and kisses and warm healing rays....Love to you. XX
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Pink Panther

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post11 Feb 2015

Some difficult posts to read, but beautiful in their honesty.

I don;t wish to sound patronising by offering suggestions, so forgive me in advance if this doesn’t help you. It may help someone else.

Do what you know for sure, what is indisputable.

There are more than enough things we can be sure of to build from. We don’t need to confuse the issue by concerning ourselves with excessive speculations, even speculations about why we did what we did or how it all came to this.

Play the hand of cards you hold now, forget how you should have played the previous hand or chapter in your life. Or the the one before that. You are not who you were. You are not even who you think you are now.

The likelihood is that in a months’ or year’s time, we’ll all have changed our views anyway. So let the changing view be based on actualities and certainties.

What Do I know for sure?

I know I have to pay the rent, look after myself in health and wellbeing (i.e. no-one else can sleep for me, eat for me, sh*t for me, walk for me).

I know that there are many distractions to this, to simply living, and to living simply.

I know I can live without food for a few weeks, without water for a few days, but without breath for only a few minutes. Each in-breath is a lifetime.

I know there are givers and there are takers.

I know there are liars and truth speakers. I know that I can’t always know which is which, so I know I'll need to find people I can trust, who are likely to be as flawed as i am but hopefully with good will. I know that I can trust them for certain things, if not for everything.

I know that I get down at times, and at other times I am not.

I know that time brings change, which I can build on, or not.

I know some things have not worked for me in the past, and will never work.

I know some things have not worked for me in the past, because i was not ready , but some may work now.

I know that if I pay attention to the little things that I can make better, the big things aren’t so big.

I know that what others think of me is their business, not mine. And whatever I think of them is incomplete, and only an opinion anyway.

I know what I think of myself is my business, and it is incomplete and only an opinion anyway.

Not saying that reviewing or analysing the past is irrelevant. I do it all the time. That’s ”head” stuff, ”head” time. What I am talking about is the things that don’t need any more ”head” time, it’s time to do them. And even for them there’s barely enough hours in the day
.
Our dead beloveds, our lost loves, our naive ideals, will continue to haunt us like ghosts as long as we wish they were still here or that things had turned out differently.

Know what you are doing.

For every step taken with a downward gaze and slumped walk, when you realise it, there is a choice to keep on that way, or you can choose to walk at least that many steps with an upward, straight-ahead-at-the-horizon gaze, full chest and erect back. At least you can make that happen. And feel what that does.

For every look inwards, send a look outwards. For every look at past or future, have ten times as many looks at what is under my nose and screaming at me to stop being distracted and pay attention here and now, from my bones, or my home, or my friends or family.

And if you don’t know these things or can’t relate to all of them, work with what you do know for sure and what you can relate to, let go of "possible” and ”maybe" , go with ”actual” and ”definitely".

I am talking from my experience, it has worked for me. Thanks for your time.
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enlightened

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post11 Feb 2015

quantum wrote:Dear Enlightened,
I have PM you to offer some help and support, where i can. You are not alone, and we do care. Pleaz feel free to PM me or post here as you wish. Sending you a big hug and kisses and warm healing rays....Love to you. XX


Thank you Quantum!!
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enlightened

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Re: The Battle of recovering from Cult Brainwashing Goes On

Post11 Feb 2015

Thank you exbkmember and ex-I for sharing your personal experiences and stories. I feel very tired and drained!! I just don't know what more I can do to help myself!! I have done virtually everything I can possibly do in my power and with the very little energy I have. I am just taking each moment as it comes right now!

Enlightened
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