The roleplaying of Mr. Aznar

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Misty

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The roleplaying of Mr. Aznar

Post11 Apr 2015

This post is an addition to the cue called "A letter to the president" .The events were told by Mr. Whaling, as I met him twice, during my time with the BK in the '90-'92 period. They are ' called the terrorist attack' and 'the BK-fairy tale'.

The Terrorist Attack

Much about the role that Mr. Aznar had, according to what Mr. Whaling told me, has been told before. However, as the students, center in charge Trudy, and Mr. Whaling were discussing matters they told me that Mr. Aznar was a very strong character. I asked them in what respect they meant that.

I was then told by Mr. Whaling that Mr. Aznar played an important role towards Mr. Bush. But prior to that, he survived a serious carcrash. This carcrash was caused by a carbomb detonated while Mr. Aznar's car passed by. The attack was done by a separatist group that wanted autonomy for a Spanish region.

So then I asked how Mr. Aznar was able to survive such an attack. They explained me that it was possible because his vehicle was heavily armoured. Mr. Aznar was told, in a private meeting with the BK godspirit, that he would be susceptible to a terrorist attack if he would continue his political carreer. Indeed that there was no way to avoid this. The only way to survive was to heavily armour the car. This was what he would do, according to them.

They then told me how brave Mr. Aznar was to endure such a thing. But also how much the godspirit loved his children, which even at the time made me feel sick, because of the role Mr. Aznar would play, according to them, in the events prior to the second Guf War (they also predicted).

As it was only in the '90-'92 period, I replied that it was not really sure whether this occasion would take place actually. They however were convinced that it would actually happen.

On april 19th 1995 there was indeed a terrosrist attack upon Mr Aznar by ETA



Image



The BK fairy-tale

Mr. Whaling told me how he did "prepare" Mr. Aznar to do the kind of thing the BK godspirit wanted him to do. As I was interested what would be the technique to influence Mr. George Bush (jr) then I questioned Mr. Whaling about this matter. And that is described before (in : 'A letter to the president-2').

I asked what happened. Mr. Whaling told me he then started developping a technique to train Mr. Aznar for the conference at the Azores, in march 2003. At this conference the decisive step towards the second Gulf War was made and the BK wanted to "be" there also.

At the time, I was quite naïve and had a totally wrong idea about how this job was done. So I asked Mr. Whaling whether there was some kind of a fancy fair in the building where the conference was held. With stands from the different pressure groups that where doing advertising on new arms and weapons, filled with flyers, folders and short films of their impressive capability, along with publicity material of the ideologic kind. I imagined the BK having a booth there as well.

Mr Whaling was quite irritated and said that none of the things I depicted was done so. It was all done covered, in secrecy, not in the open. It was that no one had to know. So that's when I came up with my second alternative. Mr Whaling hanging around like a coach in the corridors, and whenever there was an intermission, giving courage, a boost, advices etc. to Mr. Aznar. ( And meanwhile suspiciously lurking at his rivals :-)

Not so as well. Mr. Whaling nor the representatives from the other pressuregroups were around.

But then I asked how he did the job. Mr. Whaling then told me that he worked mainly on the mentality Mr. Aznar had to express. Trained him to look superior, a true leader at the conference. Not to be impressed at all by Mr Bush (jr).

As I asked whether Mr. Blair wasn't also important he told me that they (the BK) had already gone beyond him. He was no stronghold factor of importance to them anymore. (can you imagine ?) But neither was he within the influence of them. (And maybe that was the reason why ) But the focus was upon Mr. Bush (jr)

Still --- I remembered Mr. Whaling, that at this conference, Mr. Bush (jr) would be the major player and that I could not imagine Mr. Aznar having a very great influence. Mr Whaling did not deny this but told me that one of the tricks he taught Mr. Aznar was to be constant one step ahead of Mr. Bush (jr) in terms of the path the conversation would take. In this way it would seem as if Mr. Aznar was leading Mr. Bush (jr). And as if Mr. Aznar was the decisive factor. When Mr. Bush (jr) would have come to this point, Mr. Aznar would sort of jump to the next footrest which would make it seem as if he was dragging Mr. Bush (jr) forward. (can you imagine ?)

Another was to take a seat, a bit remote from the other participants, so that they all had to look his way as he was speaking. Yet another was to try and be speaker as much of the time as Mr. Aznar could, even though, probably at a certain moment in time, Mr. Bush (jr) would take the lead. However Mr. Whaling said that Mr. Aznar had to postpone this moment as long as possible.

Furthermore to take the initiative back wherever he could. Yet another was to stand up one or two times while he was speaking, so that the others, being still seated had to look up to him.

I rejected that to my vision these were only very little things that Mr. Aznar could actually do. I wondered if at all it would make any difference. Mr Whaling then told me that other pressuregroups would not do not anything more. They woud basically use the same techniques but then of course to promote their own goals. And they would have a better stronghold because they were more important. But all of these groups wanted war.

Mr. Whaling told me that the BK was the least powerful group upon the pressuregroups that were exerting their influence. Amongs them were some fundamentalist Christian groups and the arms industry. In fact the BK-influence was so small and seemingly insignificant that it could hardly be noticed. But they were there, Mr Whaling decleared very proudly.

I asked Mr. Whaling if it would not be that it was quite useless that BK tried to "be there". He denied because whereas the other pressure groups would "only" want this war, the BK was more interested in a larger scale goal, ie. the all destructive global war. Because they were working at sanskara-level they solely could do this. (according to the teacher and Mr. Whaling, as has been described before)

I doubted this and told him so. What was more obscure and doubtable to the whole project is that Mr. Whaling "prepared and trained" Mr. Aznar years ahead and then left him, waiting for the result. But yet again he told me other pressure groups worked in similar ways. In fact, according to Mr. Whaling, the last meeting with a representative from a pressure group was roughly half a year prior to that conference and that was a respresentative from the arms industry.

I asked whether the conference would work out as planned. Mr. Whaling told me then that it would be a very long conference and that at many instances it was stuck. He also told that Mr. Bush (jr) at first was very hesitant, almost insecure and had to, almost, be pushed forward. Mr. Bush (jr) wanted to go to war and yet he did not wanted it. That Mr. Aznar had to really work hard on him (can you imagine ?).

Now, none of the pressure groups were acutally "there" and yet they all were "there". As I asked Mr. Whaling more about this event he then explained it more clearly to me. As far as I understood it's core business was being focussed and staying focussed at the conference and their main figures. He told me that the conference would last for hours and hours and this was the hard task.

I replied that it is very hard to stay focussed for hours. Mr Whaling agreed. He told me that, very unlikely to what may be expected, the representatives from the arms-industry were the first to skip. They had done their job, were confident of the " good ending" and soon after would be focussed at other things, went out to relax, drink etc. They would not last even half an hour being focussed. They were not trained to do so.

Then one by one the other groups were tested by time at their stronghold. Many of them could not stay focussed for too long. All but one, a very old fundamentalist religious group who kept holding on. I tried to find out more about the different groups but did not get anymore information.

But that fundamentalist religious group held on very strong and defied the Brahma Kumaris for hours and hours to no end. As I wondered how this was done Mr. Whaling told me the technique was to sort of work in shifts. That was the secret, the key. Those who did lasted long whereas the others' influence withered. This fundamentalist group as well as the Brahma Kumaris used this technique. And so they defied each other in this respect. It all seemed a bit vague to me.

I asked in exactly what way they defied each other. Filled in that the one group was praying and the other meditating, which seemed to be just. Was it that Mr. Whaling named it : 'sort of meditating', and was not more precise. Not even he did exactly know how they did they job. Maybe he was just trying to look interesting.

I asked whether the BK group was doing a sort of world meditation in disguise and then secretly was hoping to provoke war but that was not the case. It was a very small group of highly trained individuals. They were not in a trance, I specifically asked about that. They were not even meditating I think, but just "sort of focussing". But I did not get that really clear as Mr. Whaling did not understand it himself very well. And it was kept a secret within the BK.

So I asked who would be in this group to which the answer was also vague. But as I asked again I suggested that it was not an easy job to do and not everyone could join. It had to be at least people with a lot of experience, i.e. Seniors ; Mr. Whaling admitted it ot be so. But some must have been very talented as they were only but a few years with the BK, which he did not understand at all but was eager to find out. The job was not at Madhuban, 'cause I asked that as well but at a secret location, unknown to many.

He also told me that the decision between the two rivalling groups would fall at the intermission of the conference and he declared his concern because it would take very long before that event would happen at the given day.

So the conference went forward very slowly and the process almost stopped (according to Mr. Whaling). He had also spoken about this event with Mr. Aznar in advance and told Mr. Aznar that he had to ask for a minute of rest, an intermission. He told me that Mr. Aznar stubbornly would refuse to do this when he was performing his task.

But (as seen from BK perspective) the whole conference would alsmost lead to nothing. No breakthrough was made by the people at the conference so far by then. The participants were getting increasingly tired. And then the intermission came. Mr. Aznar was really very, very tired indeed. And as he was he looked forward, stared more or less in the distance, not knowing what to do, emptied his mind.

And in this moment of turmoil, he came to rest... And sweet Baba came to him and saved the day. The clouds broke and then sun came through. And the war came to be. That was how Mr. Whaling described it. It was this subtle event that made the change.

He also told me that this was the proof that the Brahma Kumaris in the end would be the most powerful of all parties. That this was a test they had performed and that confidence would now grow. Also that at a next meeting in the future the Brahma Kumaris would know how to perform the job and that they would more easily obtain the result.

The teacher then added that this event showed that their line of the future was the right one and the other one group produced a loose end.

I questioned Mr. Whaling and said that I found it almost bizarre that he would state that this single event would make the Gulf war 2 to be -- the moment that Mr. Aznar sort of "meditated" --but he stayed to his point of view. To him it was a proof that the technique worked and that a person could "remember" Baba, even if it was years later.

At that moment it was as if I was l was listening to a complete lunatic. I asked him again if all the other pressuregroups were irrelevant, all the events that had happened preliminary to the accumulation of this confict. Mr. Whaling said they were. I asked him how he was sure that this single event would happen. He was absolutely sure about it. No doubt. Baba had told him.

Mr. Whaling then assured me that if this teqchnique could work after years it would also work over a lifetime into the next life of a person. And ultimaely it was not for this life but for the next life to come of those people, the teacher added. And by this they meant Mr. Bush (jr). He also told me there was no mental programming involved ; it was only at sanskara-level they operated.

The whole scene at the center was absolutely bizarre. And to my mere astonishment non of the adherents were showing any kind of emotion. It was as if it were every day business. Then I said that it sounded to me like a fairy-tail (in a rather harsh way which Mr. Whaling failed to notice)

"Yes it is, it is", he said. His eyes went soft, as well as his voice and the expression upon his face. No doubt that he was deep in love with his beloved Baba.

Misty

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Re: The roleplaying of Mr. Aznar

Post11 Apr 2015

Mrs. Hansa made a remark about, war, God and peacefulness.
One thing is — regardless of philosophy or religious background — no religious or theology or philosophy or spirituality is supporting war, because that’s not something God has taught us. In any church, in any poem, in practice, in any book of scripture, it says God is about nonviolence and compassion, mercy and love.
It is a nice way of saying. However I completely got a different image from what I heared at the center (part of which is listed here above) and the discussion that was there, amongst other episodes I came across.

BK-ism is, according to it's own doctrine, actally trying to "inspire" politicians and scientist to promote war. Or would Mrs. Hansa, in her own odd way be saying that BK-ism is not a religion, nor theology, neither philosopy or spiritality... How could it be defined then ?

And what about the issue of "God", according to her own definition ?

I came across an old " prediction". I think it is worth mentioning here
Revelation 20:7

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle : the number of whom is as the sand of the sea
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ex-l

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Re: The roleplaying of Mr. Aznar

Post12 Apr 2015

Mrs. Hansa Raval is famous here for dumping her infant child to join the BKs, secretly marrying a Western BK Brother, attempted and - arguably - actual visa fraud, and dubious tax/financial practises ... all that the Kirpalani Klan apparently condoned, or at least never censured.

All in the name of "serving god".

We've had other individuals report 'her' centres were particularly cult-like with Hispanic members being used as virtual indentured servants.

Oh, and add "BIGAMIST" to that list.

In my opinion, she's a malicious and demented fruitcake ... who once set off to sue us - supported by the BK IT team and leadership - because someone here quoted a journalist who reported cancer experts thought her claims that BK Raja Yoga could cure cancer were KOOKY.

Misty

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Re: The roleplaying of Mr. Aznar

Post03 May 2015

Thank you ex-l for your reply.

I remember that at the time Mr. Whaling was telling about a british center in charge. She did all the things you described above, and elsewhere (for that read the quote by ex-l, at the atrix, near the end of this post ). He told about her becoming bigamist and defrauding the immigration department. He also told that she let hispanic members immigrate to the UK (if I remember well they were mexicans). She then used them as unpaid house-servants which was an euphemism for domestic slavery. Mr. Whaling was very worried about her doing so because he told her repetedly this was not commonplace in Europe though it happens in India. But Mrs. Hansa ignored that.

Mr. Whaling told her abandonments would worry the leadership of the BKWSO a lot as they feared negative publicity would spread from it. They let her carry along nonetheless and she was granted this sort of "freedom" because she would become very active against a campaingn to shut this site down.
ex-l wrote:(*) Interestingly, I discovered the primary BK activist - who has lost his moral compass and taken the business very personally - had actually married another BK female. Everyone presumes in a marriage of convenience to defraud the immigration department of the United Kingdom. There has been more than one in London centre. The Kirpalani Klan goes along with it but does not allow or encourage its slave caste of young girls in India to do so.

BKs really are [not] supposed to marry, not even for such reasons ... but they do. And that they do, evidences their attitude towards the law (which is "you can break it if you want, just remember Baba when you do it"). Stealing from employees, dubious taxable reporting, immigration fraud etc ... it's all acceptable if it is "good for Baba".

Funnily enough, the same individual had also collaborated in the legal case to shut us down, or sufficiently damage us that we gave up, with another BK despite knowing that her intentions were for her own personal benefit and that she was using the charity for them. That other BK centre-in-charge (BK Hansa Raval) had also directly defrauded the US immigration departed by marrying an British BK Brother, attempted to defraud the US immigration department by telling it that well paid Indian BK Brothers seeking US residency were "priests in the community" ... had a relationship with said Brother, and much worse which is documented elsewhere. They wanted the BKs in the country to provide money, free labor and other benefits.

Once exposed, the BKWSU/BKWSU did nothing to censor nor punish it.
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ex-l

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Re: The roleplaying of Mr. Aznar

Post04 May 2015

Misty wrote:I remember that at the time Mr. Whaling was telling about a british center in charge. She did all the things you described above ... becoming bigamist and defrauding the immigration department. He also told that she let hispanic members immigrate to the UK (if I remember well they were mexicans).

Various facts you write are accurate, but your context, geographic details and timelines are confused again ... which makes me doubt Frank Whaling had anything to do with this.

The problem then arises ... how much of your previous reports about him are similarly confused?

Misty

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Re: The roleplaying of Mr. Aznar

Post08 May 2015

Thank you for your reply.

I have tried to explain about some aspects of your concern in the post Pseudonyms. But if you wish to doubt what I have written, I have tried to describe things as well as I can. I am not here to mislead.

The information I have got from Mr. Whaling matches with what he told about himself at the time. But if he was just telling stories, I am not responsible for that. I tried to check things as well as I could and with help from people here at the forum.

The things he told about an individual named Mrs. Hansa and her role in closing down exBKChat were told in 1992, as well as other "freedoms".
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ex-l

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Re: The roleplaying of Mr. Aznar

Post08 May 2015

If that's true, it's quite remarkable but why did they let her do it if they knew it was going to fail ... or were they told they would succeed?

Free Speech

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Re: The roleplaying of Mr. Aznar

Post08 May 2015

Part of Drama. So let it happen.

Hahaha ... that's a BK-type reply.
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ex-l

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Re: The roleplaying of Mr. Aznar

Post09 May 2015

Sorry ... I posted a reply but it failed to upload and cannot re-type it right now.

I am sure there is some truth to all this, and it's all useful to pick through and get a general impression from but I still a little 'on the fence' about it. I am wondering if you have not been sub-consciously influenced by what you have read here, e.g. the incident about someone trying to burning a BK shop more than a decades before the shop existed is something that only happened and was reported here this year.

I find it really difficult to believe that the BKs spirit mediums prophecized such a small thing, and Pink's and my existence, accurately so long in advance.

However ... if it really is true ... what comes next?

Funnily enough, I also find it difficult to believe that the BKWSU will be brought to its knees by us. It would be wonder if it was, individuals and families were freed from its destructive, avaricious clutches ... but it's too much to ask.

The BKWSU is *very* hungry now. It has to keep feeding spiritually and financially on its adherents ... and increasingly feed as its financial demands grow. It's a very big, hungry, persistent ghost roving every corner of the world it can to find more fuel.

Will it ever run out of fresh blood? Will it ever stop morphing to find new ways to do so? I read they are already moving towards Confluence Age being 100 years since the *DEATH* of Lekhraj Kirpalani, e.g. not 2036 but 2069.

The suspense is too much ... I really cannot wait that long to see them finally fail !!! I'll probably make it to 2036 ... and, as a very old man, go back and see them and call them out for being hypocrites. Jayanti and most of the middle management will probably be dead by then.

I wonder if they will still exist or what they'll be like? Probably just an 'Old Folks Home for Spirit Seekers' ... still seekers but still lost too.

Misty

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Re: The roleplaying of Mr. Aznar

Post10 May 2015

Thank you ex-l for your reply.

I checked out information about Mrs. Hansa Raval. There is actually quite a lot of it on this site. I did not find the thread solely confined to the closing down of the first forum, that is called xBKchat. But I destilled the story out of pieces and fragments.

You were right in telling me that some things don't match with what I have said. I guess Londen came into my mind because maybe Mr. Whaling and Mrs. Hansa met over there. At least Mr. Whaling spoke his concern to her twice. He told me that at the center, at the time.

He also told me she was acting so stupid and critical people here on this site, would largely take profit of her erroneous steps.

Even though some facts don't match, I guess we are still talking about the same person. Mr. Whaling told me that Mrs. Hansa was so powerful within the BK, at least at the time, that they could only ask her to change her behaviour. But to that she would not listen.

But I guess this was also a warning to her. I don't know when the two actually met. I recognised the story from the fact that she was so severe acting against the present forum. That is what stuck best to my mind for what I heared at the time. Unless there was another legal case against this forum, I think we are still talking about the same person.

Yes, Mr. Whaling told her that she would eventually loose the case but Mrs. Hansa was very stubborn and thought she could win. The management of the BK couldn't stop her in this either, at least that is what Mr. Whaling told me.

But, furthermore, I do not know too much about Mrs. Hansa.

I don't know what inspired the BKs to close the xBKchat forum. I have read the comment that you have put upon this site. I am and was never in management circles of the BK. Not even in any case close to that region. I have given the explanation that Mr. Whaling told me, namely that the management feared that the first forum xBKChat would lead to this present, more critical forum.

Where does it all go? Honestly I don't know. At that time, I said the institute had to be totally dismantled. But, like you, I am very cynical. But you phrase it very well. No further comment.

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