Thank you for all the reactions.
Mr. Green Your description of the wrong "end of the world "- prediction by Mrs. Jayanti is very useful. I myself have lived through the 2012 hype alongside the BKWSO was also sufing on the trend.
Kmanaveen do you know if there were two or more different types of predictions, coming from different sources, and one of them may be just rumours and others from some spirit? How much the upper level of BKSW organization aware of these predictions ?
*
Hence are there two types of predictions ? As far as I have heard there are indeed. One is the general "End of the world, Krishna will come one day but we don't know when" kind of stuff. This has lead to endless false predictions.
The other are the more detailed ones, sometimes personal and more worldly predictions. As for me, I heard about these two types simultaneously but was very sceptical about whether this second type of predictions would come true.
What I start to think is that the second type of predictions is channeled from worldly sources. The teacher told me they would start to channel newspapers. It was an intense job because they had to constantly meditate.
And it sounded absolutely bizarre. And they would need someone on the spot to "send" it spritual, several people in effect. But this was only after they started to do another thing.
And that is that they channeled from this website. I am sorry to tell and believe me, at the time I was just as enormously sceptical as most people will be here once they read it. However, they referred to specific articles placed here, pseudonyms, the way people place posts here, interact etc, etc.
If I might give an explanation I would say the fact that already so many channeled messages like Murlis are here displayed, as well as photos from Mr. Lekhraj and the others helped a lot. The teacher told me a similar thing. She told me at this site there are constantly people somewhere meditating. But, basically, the way it really works I don't know. It seems like data-transfer back in time.
It seems just like a metaphysical law. They called it karma. Mr. Whaling told me that people are just not aware about what they are doing with their thoughts. I asked someone and they confirmed they channeled the information at the time (at least being 1990, maybe even earlier) and then fed it in the preliminary form of the internet - send it to -- and accessible for restricted adherents at the time. I think it is, basically, a sending of data back through time, though it hardly seems possible.
An adherent explained that the BKWSO was so desperate for "true predictions" that they used this trick. When a prediction becomes true it could be used to convince people or lure newcomers in, or prevent doubting members from leaving. When damage was done to a center people could be asked for donations. It's the same old book but with a new cover. Or a new chaper from that book. Even the teacher told me so. Nothing basically, really changes.
Mr. Whaling told me they first started with channeling this website but eventually build a sort of replica of it, at the time, a simple one to study our interaction and other details. The teacher told me that this present website helped the BKWSO a lot in making their con-strategy more perfect. But I have to say that everything that I said at the time to fight back to the BK was turned against me and told as if it would only benefit them. It was a trick they used to appear superior though ghey are just ordinary people, like anyone else.
The godspirit cannot make proper predictions, she told me, but we can do something else and help Baba. She also told me that the con-strategy would not change, only the method was more sophisticated. She told me this website was a perfect medium because we value truth so much here.
I think it is laughable to no extent that a godspirit that cannot make a single prediction valuable relies on such ordinary tricks. Just think of it ... And she was trying to ward of the positive effects of this website as well. It is a help to a great number of people.
But again, it's like the magician had pulled another rabbit out of the high hat.
ex-l wrote:If .. big IF ... Hansa Raval and Frank Whaling ever spoke, could it really have been in the 1990s?
*
Hence the timeline Hansa / Whaling Mr. Whaling told me he met Mrs. Hansa Raval three times. The first time was at her home and ranch. The second and third times were in London.
Allow me to tell what I remember/ know and please correct me wherever needed and I'll feel free to speak !! ... Mr. Whaling told me he discovered that Mrs Raval always flew via London when she went to India. He wondered why this was so. He found out that she took a night rest at a hotel and, later on, discovered she had an affair. This besides the two other men she was connected with.
Mr. Whaling was afraid that Mrs. Hansa Raval could be in some sort of way emotional blackmailed and that is why he insisted that the man became a BK adherent, which happened. She then further degraded this man to his detriment.
Whaling first visited Mrs. Hansa when he was in the US. He did notice things that highly alarmed him. When he was at Madhuban he consulted the channeld "encyclopedia" about her and learned about her future behaviour that would harm the BKWSO and about the courtcase against the website.
He warned her two times ahead of it actually happening. That is, her roleplaying towards the process to shut this site down. And probably in more general terms about her behaviour. So the timeline is intact, only there is a prediction that makes things as if it is blurred. (It's simular to the timeline Pink Panther wanted me to clarify).
If .. big IF ... the god spirit made predictions why did not warn the BKWSO about Hansa Raval relationship and other activities and how the exposure of that was bound to embarrass her and the BKWSU.
*why not warn BKWSO against Hansa Raval relationships and BKWSO embarrassement ? Mr. Whaling
did but Mrs. Hansa Raval did not listen. By then she had become very powerful within the BK. She was married to a BK-man, everyone knew about it, the marriage was consumated and still she was on a stage next to BapDada. Mr. Whaling told me he felt so embarrassed.
We were all very surprised that BapDada tolerated her next to him even though BapDada speaks of absolute celibacy. It was like the beauty and the beast on the stage. Or rather to beasts. One consuming the world, the other consuming the BKWSO. Even Mr. Whaling told at the center that it was as if Mrs. Hansa was preying upon adherents.
Why, if the god spirit predicted it all did they go along with it all and support her?
*
why did they support her in the fight ? The fact is that the BKWSO could not stop Mrs. Hansa Raval. At least that's what Mr. Whaling described. If I remember well she started the courtcase against the website on her own account. If I understood well, at the time, she paid (at least partly) for the courtcase with her own money and she was very rich. Some people in the hierarchy probably hoped that it would still turn out well for the BKWSO, including Mrs Raval herself.
She appeared to be out of controll or out of touch with reality or both.
But furthermore I don't know any details about the actual considerations. I think the only people that can really tell are those high within the hierarchy, which I am not and have never been.Why would the god spirit be so concerned with Pink Panther and ex-l ... up to dubious financial/tax practises etc etc etc? "
*
why be so concerned with Pink Panther, ex-l and others and not with Hansa Raval and her wrongdoings ?
The thing is that at the time both Mr. Whaling and the teacher told me that the wrongdoings of Mrs. Hansa Raval were relatively small as far as compared to other things that would happen. Mrs. Raval was considered as a black rose that flourished and would wither in time.
There was another thing of major concern though. That was that opposition against the BKWSO would go underground where it would be invulnerable for the BKWSO-wrongdoings. In fact, it would become so strong and unpredictable that it would become a severe threat. It would be totally unknown where, when, what would happen and to what image-damage it would lead.
Both Mr. Whaling and the teacher were very concerned about it. They said the BKWSO neither by any form or any intervention would have any influence upon the process. For them it was the ultimate horrorshow.
Mr. Whaling was trying to find out about the interaction between people here on the site because he believed the same kind of interaction would be there in this dark future-scenario for them to come. But it wasn't even sure from which corner the opposition would come. They only knew that it would be kind of devastating, as far as I could comprehend at the time.
What it would be, no one knew.
Maybe it was also used as a con-strategy to keep people in. But both Mr. Whaling and the teacher as well as others at the center were very concerned.
If it is at all true, he must have a strange sense of priorities ...!
*
strange sense of policies of the godspirit That we discussed as well at the time. It wasn't really understood. What mostly was of concern to the adherents was the fact that their beloved Baba could not protect them at all. I guess that's also a clear sign of Shiv Babe not being a totipotent godspirit which Shiv Baba claims to be.
I guess even Shiv Baba himself was concerned of the things to happen which is not at all like an omnipotent godspirit.
Neither was it well uderstood why Mrs. Raval was tolerated on a stage next to BapDada even if it was clear that she would do so much wrong in times to come.
I believe there is some truth to what you are posting, Misty, but I think there are some muddles too.
By all means keep posting and we will try and sort it out as it happens.
Thanks.
kmanaveen wrote:then whatever way you try to avoid it, it will happen and there is no point of fighting it, at least from BK's point of view
*
there is no point in fighting a preordained prediction. Some events indeed are. Death is an inevitable part of life, still right now, if ever it changes. But there are a few very disturbing things about the arson-case. Mr. Whaling told me that for years the spot was vacant. No buildings, nothing. People then (and that includes me), just as much as people now, were very sceptical if ever an event such as arson would happen.
However, there were buyers interested in the spot. One person wanted to build a hotel over there. Another person wanted to establish an ordinary bookshop. Both of them were warded off by overpowering them money-wise. The BKWSO was bidding higher for the ground. If they believed in pre-ordained fate they would not have done that. They would have relaxed knowing that one way or another their line of future-events would have become real and not the other ones.
Mr.Whaling told me :
"We don't want an arson-attack in an ordinary bookshop. We want it in our bookshop."He also told me it was their karma, they had to deal with it , but was afraid it would still take place at the same spot although here, at the forum, backgrounds about that event were revealed. They were not yet known at the time when we discussed the event. Or left out on purpose.Mr. Whaling also told me, as I discussed the above strategy of buying other party's out , that it wasn't sure whether orson would happen and that they
helped fate a bit in this way. Stragely, after the BKWSO had safely obtained the place, the godspirit demanded for years the ground should remain vacant. Only after years when the godspirit suddenly ordered the building of a bookshop and BK-center, people relaxed because they knew that karma could happen the way it was predicted.
Another thing that comes to my mind is the fact that Seniors get operations (why fight a disease if it's karma?). Why give Mr. Lekhraj injections prior to his death ? Why inspire politicians and scientist to destroy the world. Why try to cover up and hide the truth ? It would all not be necessary if they beleived the karma-reality themselves.
I feell like the karma-argument is used only whenever it is apropriate. But it is a very good question indeed.
I wish to tell you one thing Kmanaveen. It is very personal to me and I hoped to tell it once to you. The very fact that you posted your articles on this site and Mr. Whaling telling me that they could not get hold of you, that you passed the BK unnoticed or were never really affected by them, or in contact with them helped me at a difficult moment. It encouraged me a little, even though I would have passed through it myself as well because I was so adverse to them. But that is karma also. No one helped me but you were there, metaphorical speaking.
Thank you for that.
Who else was privy to your conversations?
Most of the adherents at the center, apart from those who had freshly arrived, knew at least about some of the 'worldly' predictions given. Some of them argued about future events with each other. Some though knew more then others. The mere part of those who had been at Madhuban, had consulted the "encyclopedia". Some though were not interested in consulting it. Few actually knew about the present website and had read articles from it ,or knowledge from it's contents.
ex-l wrote: what else was discussed?
I think I have already told quite a lot about what happed, discussed etc in the threads that I have started. Anyone interested can read it there. But as ex-l has once said I also think it's just the tip of the iceberg.
how were Pink Panther and ex-l introduced ?
There was a conversation about dissidents and people that left the cult. Then there was being told that those who left, merely belonged to the "group against the destruction-paradigm". They told that later on people regrouped on a forum. I asked about incidents that people on the website posted about and they told me of the "big scandals". Then they started telling about names of a few of them, including Pink Panther and ex-l.
It's all there in the very first post of this thread.
Another typical ambiguity but one in which the BKWSU benefit by being able to advertise other business locations (centres) but the individual BK benefits from by establishing and holding onto their power within the BKWSU.
This is unclear to me. Can you tell me what actually happened ?
I am not sure the BKs even had computers back in 1990
*
Was there internet back in 1990 ? Yes. I read about it in a book. It was confirmed by an adherent. That person could read text from the presen website, just like Mr. Whaling could and other happy few. But Mr. Whaling studied the information thoroughly. Some very rich people had access to the preliminary form of the internet and Murlis and other stuff, like contents of the website, that were send to them in this way. And major universities had internet. And the military also.