Pseudonyms

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
  • Message
  • Author
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9581
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Pseudonyms

Post17 May 2015

Free Speech wrote:Sorry to say but I don't think that I can believe this stuff beyond an extent.

Without wishing to cause offence, at the end of the day, neither do I.

There are a number of glaring inaccuracies and the claims of highly accurate spiritualist predictions do not match my experience of the Brahma Kumaris, e.g. you write about the recent arson in a bookshop talking about how the plot was to going to be developed as a hotel etc ... the shop that was set on fire was a unit in a shopping centre which built a long time ago.

If the BK really did such accurate predictions, the BKWSU would have been awash with them ... and, basically, there were very none in my time. Why would they fixate on this website decades into the future!?!

I am sorry but, no, I won't buy any of it until evidence is provided to support it. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time or resources to go and check any of it.

I don't know if you are just confused and seeking acceptance by re-cycling what you think we would want to help, Misty, appealing to our curiosities or vanity ... or whether you are deliberately attempting to discredit the research we have done here.

Therefore, Frank Whaling's publishers are Dunedin Academic Press in Edinburgh, Scotland if anyone wants to contact him for confirmation of any of this. I, personally, won't though as, although there are issues I would like to discuss with him, I would not want to risk damaging my or this site credibility by going further.

Are there elements of truth in it all? I dare say there are ... some just taken from this site.

The onus is on Misty to provide some better, more specific, solid evidence for any of it.
Offline
User avatar

Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1856
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Pseudonyms

Post17 May 2015

The arson was at a parade of shops in a 1960s housing estate. There's about 20 shops there which have changed hands for many years. There is no way a hotel would ever have been considered there!

This is all unfortunately fantasy.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1412
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Pseudonyms

Post18 May 2015

both Mr. Whaling and the teacher told me that the wrongdoings of Mrs. Hansa Raval were relatively small

Indeed, if you donate money or have some status (Ravel was a doctor with the US military) any wrongdoing is small.

If you are a a low income unskilled worker or unemployed, you may be banned from attending the BK centre if a BK official doesn't like something about you.

I am thinking of people like John Morgan who was banned for always questioning their wasteful use of money and chasing money & VIPs.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9581
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Pseudonyms

Post18 May 2015

Over to you, Misty ...

Although I am forced to reject parts or the order of your story, it's not a rejection of you.

Tell us about your own BK experience, how it affected you, what's going on in your life now, and what this is all about.
Offline

kmanaveen

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: 13 Jun 2013

Re: Pseudonyms

Post19 May 2015

Misty,

I hope you understand the concerns of all of us with your story. The time lines don´t match as well as many other things that are difficult to accept ... You also mentioned that discussions published over this website were read by some in early 90s ... so does it mean, someone channeled this info and put it into computer data and was then available to others. Any print out taken that time? Any copy available to match with what is published on this site?

In India at least, internet was almost non-existent in early 90s. I remember my first email account was opened in 96-97 and during my masters in univ. So for major part of population these luxuries have starting becoming a common thing only in the last decade. Even if we don´t take that into account, since 1936 either Lekhraj or the god-spirit that entered him was not able to see beyond perhaps Lekhraj´s own information and knowledge. That is why world war II was predicted as end of world and then later Soviet Union and USA destroying each other and whole world in 1976 (remember cold war time) ... so predictions were more determined by worldly circumstances rather than any ´worldly channeling´as you have suggested. Given the number of false predictions, the predictions you mentioned in your story look rather a fantasy only. I really hope and wish you are fine.

On the other hand, let us assume we all are wrong and you are right. Can you provide any prediction that has not happened yet and may be coming soon? Sure, we can not do anything to stop it, but at least that evidence may be enough to prove you right (although it might be difficult to know the time frame for such prediction, but still that would be interesting).
Offline

Misty

  • Posts: 88
  • Joined: 23 Jan 2013

Re: Pseudonyms

Post21 Jun 2015

Thanks for the reactions.


I don't mind if the BK uses this site to better their policy towards adherents and learn from their negative experiences. I think it would be better if they had exerted such research themselves though.


I also oppose the fact that they tried to cover up tragedy's. This I came across in 1992 at the center, when I witnessed it. I don't mind if the BK can forsee future events in one way or another. If they can. And they did tell me about these events. If they use that to only get to better "manage" them, as far as moral issues is concerned, I feel very much opposed to it.


ex-l wrote : Why would they fixate on this website decades into the future!?!


As far as I understood they wanted to minimize the image-damage and used the information. At first the source was unclear to them. As I wanted to know where it came from they eventually mentioned the source. It was suggested that the information could also be coming from local newspapers. I raised the question that there are so many, how could they know which one to choose. The pseudonyms I heard are used here on this site. Maybe that's why they said they channeled this website. But they made more specific claims of it as well, the ones I told in former posts of this thread. They misused the information for their own purposes, as far as I can see. But it was not a comfortable thing for them as well, as they said they could not change the tragedy's and all that they got was negative predictions. Maybe that was why they were not too open about it in general. But it was discussed openly at the center where I came.


ex-l wrote : ... or whether you are deliberately attempting to discredit the research we have done here.


I have several times said that this is not the case. I can inderstand this, considering the fact that their have been so many attacks on this site as well as an attempt to shut it down. I don't go on repeating the denial constantly. But you and others are free to think whatever you want.


On the other hand, I have lived through this situation. It was discussed at the center. The struggle with it are part of my experiences. And I felt very uncomfortable with it at that moment and afterwards. I don't go into selfdenying that.


ex-l wrote : I don't know if you are just confused and seeking acceptance by re-cycling what you think we would want to help, Misty, appealing to our curiosities or vanity



That is not what is happening within me either. You are missing the point with all respect. There is no vanity involved nor the craving for curiosities that made me post. No negative sentiments. There's just the need to inform others.


ex-l wrote : The onus is on Misty to provide some better, more specific, solid evidence for any of it.


I tell from my experiences. Those were the things I talked about with them at the center. I could never have done that if they hadn't mentioned it first. I did take some notes also. I wanted to retieve more solid information. It was a bit more specified, more detailed. They told me they did not exactly know when the tragedy's would happen. When I left the BK I threw away all my notes.

------------------------------------

This is the situation and the information about wrongdoing that I heard 2 decades ago. I found it quite alarming at the time because I wondered what would be the consequences. I have reported it here, for people to read. I have discussed it at the center at the time. I have told them that the BKWSO had to change its policy if tragedy's like that would happen. I have discussed shortly with them the negative effects that the BK lifestyle has upon people. I even advised them to install an organ within the BK to address to in case of complaints or worse.


I went with them through a short moral discussion of what was about to happen, concerning the tragedy's, as far as they foretold me. I passed over the fact whether it would happen or not and just concentrated on the moral issues.


They said that they could not change their policy within very short timespan concerning wrongdoings, if they would happen, at that particular moment (1992) . Not within less than 1-2 years at least the teacher added. Then she whiped that whole idea away.


The facts, the tragedy's decribed here happened 2 decades later. There was being spoken of in 1992 and they knew there would be a large timespan in between cause they told me that also. They had a world of time to work out another policy and all they did is worked out how to best cover it up. Because that's what they told me they were working on. They still prefer to keep their eyes closed. There is my concern.


Thats the core of this thread as far as I am concerned. I think I have tried my best. The incidents are back at the hands of the BK. They have to deal with what happened.



mr Green wrote :
The arson was at a parade of shops in a 1960s housing estate. There's about 20 shops there which have changed hands for many years. There is no way a hotel would ever have been considered there!
This is all unfortunately fantasy.



I have discussed this with Mr. Whaling also at the time as I learned that. They spoke of a 'shopping-mall' a word that I better understood than 'parade'. I told him it was impossible. He was quick to change the situation in : the building of a hotel nearby the location. (*) The reason was rediculously that he feared that if once an BK-IP or VIP would stay there and the orson-attack would take place the situation woud be even more uncontrollable.

But that whole discussion was nonsense. People could stay in other places. I told that to Mr. Whaling. Still he was very suspicious. At the time I thought his sayings were ridiculous and would never become real. I merely concentrated on the life of a person that would be destroyed and how that person would become to do what that person would do.


(*) When I asked him why he changed the location of the hotel in his sayings he told me that "at that spot" did not mean "exactly at the place but in the vicinity". I found it peculiar that he changed the situation he described. It did not seem trustworthy at the time.


kmanaveen wrote :
Any print out taken that time? Any copy available to match with what is published on this site.
Can you provide any prediction that has not happened yet and may be coming soon?



I was not granted to take Murli's with me at the time. Not even to read them myself at the center. I don't think they would ever even have considered me taking away the contents of the information described. We discussed only a few cases at the time. So I cannot provide people with further cases.


kmanaveen wrote : so predictions were more determined by worldly circumstances rather than any ´worldly channeling´as you have suggested.



That's new to me. It is surprising that it happens which makes me wonder why there is an end of the world prediction anyway. I guess the main reaon is the instilling of fear. But the predictions I heard about were told long in advance of it actually happening. But I think people have a free choice and free will. That in the long term determines what happens.


I asked if the predictions I heard about had any reference with the end of the world predictions. They told me it was not so. And there was no end-date given by these kind of predictions. Destruction was not on that list. They specified them as two different types. In fact they were still trying to find a fitting destruction scenario which means that they had no clue about that by them desired event.


There was a discussion at the center where the chanelled information was put on-line. Some said it was done outside Madhuban, some said it was done outside India. The officicial version was Madhuban.


--------------------------------

Mr Whaling told me in the Agra situation he advised people in advance not to cover up but to report directly to the police and to take a good lawyer. There was a discussion about the fact that it still would happen the way the prediction was given. They said it was karma. I argued that a change in policy was needed in the BK because the lifestyle would cause so many problems to people. Right now I would rather see the BK totally dismanteled. The institute does good to virtually no one. It is corrupted.


Having ansewered these questions I think I have done my best to tell what I wanted to tell. It is not about whether predictions would come true or not. It is about moral issues. We discussed that at the center, at the time. It is here to read for. I hope the BK will take account of cases like these. There is no shifting of the blame involved whatsoever. It is the BK wrongdoing at full strenght, the way I see it.


I wish to stop my contribution to this thread because I cannot produce written information of the content necessary to continue the discussion. Without that it becomes very difficult to proceed.


I wanted ot retrieve solid written information at the time and investigate further. However, there was considerable pressure upon me, some of it I found of indoctrinating and manipulative kind and worse, to say it in a mildly way.


This stopped me from trying to retrieve the information and urged the need to leave that center and the BK. The atmosphere felt hostile, threatening and I did not feel welcome anymore. That was also the bottomline of what they signalled to me.

Wish you well
Offline

Free Speech

  • Posts: 111
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2015

Re: Pseudonyms

Post21 Jun 2015

I think one aspect that we must believe & accept about BKs, whether senior most or lower minions, is that they don't have any exceptional power to channelize anything, be it living or non-living. They are just typical breed of human beings having cultist egotistic attitude.

If they had this power, they would have never resorted to low means for earning money like through adherents. Everyone dies one day. If they had this visionary skill, first thing they would see is their own end or what is said, "Death is inevitable." It would actually change them that money & fame will no longer accompany them after the life. Then, what is the point in creating so much drama about nothing.

Thankyou Misty for the information you shared here.

I can believe some of it & conclude that BKWSO had been trying on a new form of prediction for more than 2 decades process after all failed attempts. They know that none of their predictions about destruction or anything that relates with nature can be true in a gross way. So, now to make a reliable prediction, an organised form of crime is done.

For example, BKWSO plans killing of its two members (who may not be able to bring good donation after all efforts) in 2030. So, they spread this prediction, " 'so and so' will be killed after 15 years at xyz center and we cannot stop it. We cannot stop it." In 2030, it happens & gets reported. Faith of those who were told about it in advance strengthens. BKWSO gets a credit to its prediction making skill.

That is how I interpret this thread. Either it is happening this way or nothing at all, I guess.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1412
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Pseudonyms

Post22 Jun 2015

...they don't have any exceptional power to channelize anything, be it living or non-living. They are just typical breed of human beings having cultist egotistic attitude. ... If they had this visionary skill, first thing they would see is their own end

Image
Offline

Free Speech

  • Posts: 111
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2015

Re: Pseudonyms

Post22 Jun 2015

"Unforeseen" ... it hints a lot. Like those palmists who promise their clients to read their palms & tell what they must do to bring back the fortune. It prompts me to think why they never see their own palms & do something to improve their condition (only a few of them make money, most are just poverty & ignorance ridden).
Offline
User avatar

Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1856
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Pseudonyms

Post23 Jun 2015

You seem very sweet and kind Misty but I think you barking up the wrong tree with this one.

Nice to see your interested in posting here though
Previous

Return to Commonroom

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests