Purity in the West

In the West, purity doesn’t count. No one thinks about it. When a boy is celibate, he is called pure; when a girl is celibate, she is also called pure. But as Brother ex-l has already said it is difficult to find those ones in the West. However, purity is especially attributed to woman.

In the West, women fight for freedom and independence. She can be with many men doesn’t matter. The man can be with many women doesn’t matter. This makes the relationship between man and woman very short lasting. And people have lost the ability to maintain a long and pure relationship. Without sex they see no point.

My personal opinion is that a woman can never be happy with many men nor a man with many women. One woman needs only one man and one man needs only one woman. People have lost themselves even to such an extend that they seek comfort in professional advancement, study, flirting, friends, hobby, travel, but how will they journey away from what it is the intrinsic attribute of the soul to combine and maintain a relationship. We may say, "hallo", 100 times a day to 100 different people but the conversation does not proceed. We may have 100 nights with 100 different lovers that will never continue. So our energy flies away like this. Now, Baba says purity means to belong to one. The Supreme Soul bounds the souls in such a way that they remain partner to each other for 21 births.

So what we are now to do those who try to follow purity in such circumstances that even if one man is with one woman physically his mind is with many woman continuously? Generally, adultery happens due to the attraction of the body. One can make a promise to remain together and be faithful, but the desire for physical pleasures arise and one thinks what I’m going to lose, then he even hides from his wife what he has done but tells his friends. Now, how will he look in the eyes of his wife anymore? Leave this matter aside, people nowadays even live together with years in hatred. They even don’t speak to one another, so they say it is better that we separate.

What a constructive idea do I offer in this world where someone even says it is not normal if one does not have girls again and again? We should not hide. What we do is not bad. What we do is right. Those who will not like purity that will not leave adulteration, they will desire that every woman becomes mine, but this is not possible. Conflict arises only because of this single matter of purity.

Once people get used to the idea they accept you. Unfortunately, the damage is often done and you go away feeling hurt, rejected or both.

It is easy to become either a laughing stock in the workplace etc. or become centre of attention as they fathom out the freak on show. It is interesting how little respect others can have towards you if you are celibate. For NOT doing something. There are many celibate people in the world who have had nothing to do with spiritual practises. You can get away with it more if your body ugly is perhaps.

We are expected to accept it all, including the vibrations when you go home from work to your empty house/flat. Then at some point they get into problems, or over do the lust thing, envy your situation and appreciate where we are coming from.

It is not all it is knocked up to be.

Yes, i meant we should not be shy. Others may tease us, but if we maintain our inner selfrespect, that purity is personality of royalty than we may also tease.

"So those who cannot satisfy even one woman try in satisfying 10. Those who cannot control even one woman try controling 10. She also goes along with others, is not it?"

or

"This pleasures of the senses becomes less and less as you enjoy. There is not even power to enjoy pleasures anymore. Only power is lost and sorrow comes."

or

"Have you seen how a dog goes mad when he sees a *****. You are the same." (or one can use monkey) "This dog, if you even give him good food it does not see, it walks after the ***** like a beggar. This way you don't see the gift God gives now.

Empty house is better than a house full of vice. Baba says if the woman is good the home is like heaven. We are not deities yet (meaning Lakshmi is not Lakshmi yet), why take a prostitute in your house. She will turn your house into a brothel. She will not even leave you alone.

Baba says all men are vicious. The more we value and safeguard the purity of woman, the better.

Marrige, relationships are not truthful anymore. It is a path of Bhakti, a ritual. Why peole gather? Love is not a condition, because there is not a true soul-concious love but love for the body. This way if we are not together with the bodies, we don't remember one another. Rememberance of other bodies that comes in front of the eyes occur.

Baba has said marriage is a disaster. When they ask me i either ask back, why should i marry and they realise, or just smile or say i don't want a headache.

Then it comes to understanding it is really the end. Our acts should be like this. It's not time for this now. Different times will come. Difficult times. We know in advance so we are lucky, so we should tell others too.

Baba says all men are vicious.

Baba has said marriage is a disaster.

This Baba does not always know what he is talking about ...

Firstly, you always have to qualify WHICH Baba is saying what and qualify disaster. Forum rules and commonsense.

In this case, I am 100% sure that is it Lekhraj Kirpalani talking in the Sakar Murlis. Baba also says in the Sakar Murlis, it is better to get married that to burn with the "fire of lust".

There is a funny story in the Yagya that Lekhraj Kirpalani had no idea to become married until he saw a Bollywood movie in which the hero became happily married. Then he agreed to it.

• I wonder what his wife and family felt when she heard him say such things?
• I wonder how much simple personal human psychology we are dealing with here?
• Is this also why he said that going to the movies so bad and banned it?

[Although he and the Dadis still liked the cheap and popular film score music instead of classical music]

I think these things reveal a lot about Lekhraj Kirpalani and the early community that the PBKs are helping me understand. Firstly, that he had a very child-like, impressionable mind ... and secondly, that he had a very cheap or limited choice in movies. He, and they, may not actually have had a wide or developed cultural awareness and, largely, he was steeped in the Hindu Bhakti and tastes of his own caste.

Yes, I agree with him with regards the impressionable power of the media and think BK Brahmins should follow his Shrimat and even avoid the internet but I absolutely disagree with him when he equates, "all men are vicious ... all women are pure". This is wishful condition for the girls he was teaching ... or Bhakti hypnosis.

I am sorry but this is absolutely laughable and absolutely untrue. And believe me, have knowledge and experience in this area, as you must.

I have tried on a number of ocassions to engage members in a discussion of female sexuality and female attitudes towards sex in Hindu communities. Perhaps Shivsena will have the courage. It would appear it is still an aspect of great taboo. Perhaps if individuals were honest and able to be open, we might find out a different truth. My feeling is that body are what bodies do whatever the color of the skin and cultural conditioning.

In the West, there has been an exploration of both sexuality and the Romantic tradition for many hundreds of years preceeding female emancipation in the 20th Century. Developing nations are also starting to experience both. Of course, historically India too was far less prudish and supressed before the British involvement there as the Kamasutra and temple of Khajuraho's proves.

Why should we talk about sexuality. This sexual revolution is the biggest downfall of the humanity. I observe the difference from India to the West. In India people aim to reach a safe place, peacefull place, here they aim to reach a jungle.

For myself I have never believed I’ll be following such a life, but it happens.

Baba says girls should absolutely not go out alone. Someone may say why, but it is for their own safety. They ask why also later when they cry.

Yes, this is new knowledge and the conception that men are vicious is new. I have observed that in the West the purity of woman is not respected. That's why i raised this topic.

Maybe Laksmi is Lakshmi already.

In Murli it says that some Sisters have so much love for each other, even more than for Baba, they even like to touch each other.

Also that India becomes the most elevated and most degraded place.

I think romantic views of the east , should be tempered with reality checks.

Why should we talk about sexuality. This sexual revolution is the biggest downfall of the humanity. I observe the difference from India to the West. In India people aim to reach a safe place, peaceful place, here they aim to reach a jungle.

No, the biggest downfall of the humanity was Brahma in the Copper Age and replacing Krishna as the god of the Gita, is not it?

The simple answer would be to be more serviceable. If we are led to make daft statements - and I am not accusing you, I am accusing those that lead us - based on Lekhraj Kirpalani's India of the 1930s and 40s. We are going to do disservice in this day and age. A simple read into the sexual revolution in India will caution you about making any statements about a mythical "India" and the Western model of sexuality is different and now being exported worldwide.

But, yes, I agree. In India, the impression we are given is that it is largely not safe for women to walk alone. Is it as bad as we are told, Sisters? Its is part of a bigger problem.

I would identify three aspects here;

• the tradition of Romantic or Courtly love within the West versus the formal arranged marriages of the "East", the Wests exploration of emotional independence and the separation of sex and the woman, from property.
• the so called sexual revolution
• female emancipation and the woman's movement from which the BKs benefit in the West. (I note that service has not been so successful in Iran or Saudi Arabia where women are not allowed the freedoms your Baba disallows!) BTW, please say which Baba you refer to because the Sisters in the West are definitely not following his Shrimat on that one!

The three are all mixed up. There are positive aspects as well and the Western consciousness has developed due to them. I think it is fantastic that a woman can walk around, go travelling, wear next to no clothing if that is what she is comfortable with, find higher education; and NOT be bothered in the same way she would if it was India or some Islamic country. It is the eyes that should to be clothed more, with wisdom, not the body. And India is far from wisdom in this aspect. The West should be proud of the advances they have made not be ashamed of the mistakes. It is leading the world now. What are the Sisters meant to be doing at home all the time?

I agree with John on the romanticisation of the geographical India. Are you sure that Baba means the geographical India and not a metaphorical India?

Dear Brother ex-l,
I refer to the Big Baba. Brahma Baba is the small Baba. Just the point cannot be called Baba.

BK Brahmins should follow his Shrimat and even avoid the internet

When and through whom has he given this Shrimat (if i accept that for you Shrimat comes from BB) then at his time, was internet available? Shrimat comes from one only, he does not come from all the Sisters and Brothers.

Arab lands are desert lands. There is not so much physical water and also water of knowledge.