Origins of BK meditation

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post15 Dec 2016

The late Dada Anand Kishore was their main translator into English until Jayanti came along, he’d been with them since childhood. Not sure if he wrote ”original” material or was just a translator.
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ex-l

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post15 Dec 2016

No, it wasn't him.

I think it was their advocate. Whoever wrote all the legal stuff. Some highly important character who has been whitewashed out of the history, presumably because he bailed on them at some point.

If I was to make a Gyani joke ... Stalin's purges, and all the removal of party members from official photos, were just a memorial of Om Mandli and the Confluence Age.
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human being

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post18 Dec 2016

I think understanding about the origions of Dada Lekhraj should be the foundation of any attempt to try to understand the evolution of BK meditation.

My current opinion is that he was an ordinary selfish businessman who may be clever in earning money but was in no way an intellectual or a learned man. Therefore, the question of him being influenced by advait/sankhya/vedas is out of consideration for me personally. As a matter of fact, at the cost of sounding pompous, I would say that I know more about dharmic traditions as a whole than him or any other older BK, and have certainly had much more profound 'experiences' of their 'spiritual' aspects than any BK I have ever met, or half-BK I have ever read. And I read pretty much all the 'literature' BKs had to offer, if you call it literature. It is all like reading the same book again and again without much depth or variety.

So, the point is he was a 'vyapari' and a cunning one at that. People who are money minded and look towards the world with the lenses of loss or gain are traditionally called 'vashyas' (do not confuse with prostitutes please) according to 'Varna vyavastha'. They were the second lowest class, as per the original classification of the varnas which classifies humanity into 4 categories based on their natural inclination/jobs.

In the beginning such classification was not according to one's birth but according to one's professions but later it evolved into a horrendous and much bashed 'caste system' and rightly so. So, the prevalent notion in society was that those who indulge in profit making all the time are lesser persons and hence bereft of spiritual wisdom. Such persons traditionally maintained a facade of over religiousness at that time in India so as to gain more social respect (a calculated investment in PR;)).

Though, Lekhraj was a Brahmin by cast but many of you may be surprised to know that even among Brahmins, kshatriyas or even shudras this classification is there so the logic holds true. So such 'lalas' as they were called by common folk used to do such religious stints like reading Gita donating money to 'dharamshalas' etc to secure a better 'place in the afterlife', to help ease their conciousness of the greedy acts they have committed in their life, and to be seen as a saintly soul in the society as well ;).
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ex-l

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post18 Dec 2016

human being wrote:Though, Lekhraj was a Brahmin by caste ...

Thank you for your very honest post.

Was he a Brahmin by caste?

That's news to me. I've not heard it before.
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human being

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post18 Dec 2016

Several such people had deep rooted fear of judgement after they die and towards the end of their careers they started getting paranoid mainly because of the prevailing concepts of 'religion' at that time. I can clearly imagine Dada Lekhraj as one such person. He may have learned about the judgement Day etc from Muslims who had a big influence on sindh of that time. He had a rough idea of Sikhism as it has its roots in Punjab and Sindh and deeply influences the local thinking of any Hindu/non-Muslim hailing from that region even today, and that is the reason why Sindhis are considered as a bunch of 'dharm brashta' (money chasing people) even today in the heart of hinduism, i.e the Ganges belt as they are supposed to have lost their cultural identities. On top of it, he is most likely to have come in contact with the missionaries thanks to his business with the Britishers and the awe with which anything to do with their culture was looked at within Indian elites of that time.

Now, if ex-l's repeated references to a 'sadhu' having 'sidhhis' is correct than I can clearly see how this cult was formed by a bunch of semi-literate rich people. However,I would dearly love to see some evidence of it as this point is mentioned by the 'Shankar party' who are a bunch of psycopaths mostly, much worse than the BKs and a couple of anti-Om Mandli guys who, basically, are birds of the same flock.

Now its evolution, or that of its teachings, is only a sub-plot of a bigger picture. Pretty much every 'saint's' teachings get corrupted over time when new 'followers' come and mix their own narratives/biases into the core teachings presenting themselves as the only true followers to ultimately claim their legacy and gain clout amongst the new 'converts' and that is how religions are formed in the first place out of the teachings of the very same persons who themselves spend their entire lives educating people to look beyond their self-proclaimed religious bubbles. Now if this same process which starts spontaneously and becomes a religion is started consciously by a person/group of person you get a cult!

And now a systematic brainwashing of people starts with a well lubricated organisational structure. The teachings will get written and re-written 'adopting/evolving' over a period of time as the point is to 'spread the message' to all before it is too late.
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human being

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post18 Dec 2016

Yes, ex-l, Kriplanis are Brahmins by caste. But, as I said, they being 'sindhis' are not regarded in very good light by the 'mainlanders'.

PS: The origions of BKism, in my opinion, should be seen in the above light mainly and attempts should not be made to read too much between the lines in the movement as the main nature of their influence is psychic in nature. What I have learned from my BK experience is to not speak about things which I have not personally experienced and therefore, to use fancy terminologies from Buddhism/Hinduism and finding their influence on BK mentality may prove to be eqivalent to chasing one's tail.
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human being

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post18 Dec 2016

I consider the movement as more of a collective delusion than a sinister conspiracy. That may or may not be true but It helps me maintain a light mood and judging from my personal experience as a BK even that is an accomplishment compared to costantly failing to follow those ridiculous 'Maryadas' ;).
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ex-l

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post18 Dec 2016

human being wrote:Yes, ex-l, Kriplanis are Brahmins by caste. But, as I said, they being 'sindhis' are not regarded in very good light by the 'mainlanders'.

I am very surprised by this. In truth, I doubt it.

Were you told that by the BKs?

Everything I've read says Lekhraj Kirpalani was a Bhaibund ... and he certain became part of it. The Bhaibund was a lower caste (vyasa) to the Amil (kshatriya), although related (basically, the smart kids going off to become Amil and the others going into business, Bhaibund with the Amils often running the administrative side of the Bhaibund business).

I thought they were Lohana (again, kshatriya turned merchant). There's discussion of it in Cosmopolitan Connections: The Sindhi Diaspora, 1860-2000 by Mark-Anthony Falzon

However, I'll be the first to admit I am utterly confused by Sindhi name spelling and conventions (... and, to some degree, they are deliberate confusing - you need to know *all* their names and naming conventions to decode them).

Are the Kirpalani related to Kirpals, "-ani" often denotes a descent from a common male ancestor? And what of the "Khubchand"? I read that The Brahmins among Sindis were Saraswats and Pushkaranas and very few in number.

A Sind reseacher, Bherumal Mehrchand suggests that "the Chandiramanis, the Bhambhanis, the Karnanis and the Kripalanis are all Chugh”.

Doesn't chug/chugh mean "once born" (and much the same as Shudra), or is it just a Punjabi Aroras name? (I don't know, I am not Indian).
human being wrote:Now, if ex-l's repeated references to a 'sadhu' having 'sidhhis' is correct than I can clearly see how this cult was formed by a bunch of semi-literate rich people. However,I would dearly love to see some evidence of it ...

The best evidence to the saddhu figure is in the paperwork of the court proceedings where all witness statements were formal and had to be notarised. It was a very high profile case at the time. I think the PBKs get this aspect of the story *absolutely* wrong. They are desparate to prove their guru was said character ... but that is all wrong.

However, I think they take their original references from the Sakar Murlis, so it may be in them. I've forgotten.

I was also told this by an elderly Sindi who remember Lekhraj Kirpalani. They said it happened in Bengal and when he came back, he was a very changed man. I think his habit of wearing eyeshadow dates back to this, references to which again appear in both the Murlis and the court proceedings. He paid a great fortune.

I worked out a conversion rate on this forum a long time ago. It may come up in a search.

sindhi-castes.jpg
sindhi-castes.jpg (30.62 KiB) Viewed 1267 times
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sukshmbindu

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post19 Dec 2016

human being wrote: have certainly had much more profound 'experiences' of their 'spiritual' aspects than any BK I have ever met, or half-BK I have ever read.

Can you please tell about your spiritual experiences?
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human being

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post19 Dec 2016

To ex-l,

Sorry I wrote about Kriplanis being Brahmins without bothering to cross check it as I was told, and have read, Dada being Brahmin in several books published by the organisation. And I never bothered to doubt such a minor detail as most of the English educated people of my generation who hail from an urban middle-class background do not bother about castes anymore in India, and hence found no reason to doubt what I was told with so many different people. But if he is a vyshya by caste I do not think my ideas about him would be off the mark. In fact, they would be even more correct.

Also, as I said earlier, Sindhis have had a very big influence of Sikhism and Islam on it and the very foundation of sikhism (which I like a lot) were anti-caste system. So, I am not surprised that the categorisation and its boundries are a little vague in their place and I think that his belonging to Brahmin caste may be an attempt to gain more foothold amongst the more orthodox people in older India.
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human being

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post19 Dec 2016

To sukshmbindu,

Hi Sister.

What do you want to know exactly?

I think instead of going into the details of events that have happened in my life, which can vary from person to person and hence, their interpretation by several persons my lead to unwarranted bickering I tell to the people including myself not to take these 'experiences' too seriously.

When they happen to you personally what happens mostly is a very intense emotional experience. You may feel love, joy etc. At the end of the day, it is just an emotion, although a very pleasant one. However, what is important in life, and it is backed up by numerous Dharmic books I have read and is also my personal belief, is that 'truth' ought to be given supreme priority to progress in any spiritual practice and if these experiences are making you indifferent towards what is factually incorrect than I believe that that method in inherently flawed despite it being very lucrative especially to innocent/vulnerable people.

However, if you wish to ask something specifically I would be pleased to answer you as I am a bit free these days and can spend time here discussing good things like spirituality rather than wasting my time taking selfies and editing them for Facebook! ;).
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Pink Panther

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Re: Origins of BK meditation

Post20 Dec 2016

Offtopic: Sukhshmbindu, you keep asking this question in different topics. This is poor etiquette on a discussion forum. Please stick to the topic at hand, do not interrupt the topic with questions that take it off course.

If you wish to, you can start another topic, a new one. But, if you look you will see that this topic - sharing personal experiences - already exists elsewhere, in a few places on the forum. Please look through the various sections and categories of this forum and you will find many that are to do with personal experiences, or you can use the Search function and use the filters to limit it to topic headings, or content or whatever.

Another aspect of polite forum etiquette is to read the earlier posts in a topic, so you do not repeat what others have said or asked, then you can join in the conversation in an up to date and relevant manner.

Otherwise, if I haven’t said so already, welcome to the forum!

The topic is ”Origins of BK meditation.” Over....
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