Deep State, BKs, and the Alt-Right

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Arbit

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Re: Deep State, BKs, and the Alt-Right

Post03 May 2017

GuptaRati,

I concur with you on DS and its operations. You cite Guyana's case and, as I am sure you know, the same applies to pretty much all of South America, and many other regions of the world. I can be persuaded about DS's influence on the BKs if you show evidence, even if circumstantial.
GuptaRati 6666 wrote:The BKs as a name brand could not have become popular without the green light from DS.

Remember, BKs struggled for a very long time - from 1936 to at least 1985 - to become a brand even in India. They became a brand only after 2000. Until then they were shunned in India and, outside India, many non-Indians have taken U turns.

DS is driven in part by the Church, and its underpinnings lie in Christian theology and beliefs, the mainstay of which is that it is the White man's burden to civilize and own the rest. That makes it harder for DS to work with groups who have a different theology, although it is not totally out of the question because financial interests tend to trump everything else.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Deep State, BKs, and the Alt-Right

Post04 May 2017

Arbit wrote:Alas, this is far from the truth. Richardson's article is astonishingly shallow. Yes, 'the people' try to wrest control of the democracy or whatever system they live under, but they take a step forward and the DS pulls them back two. For example, in the early twentieth century, when Richardson claims that regular Americans took the government back, they got the Federal Reserve

The historian is offering a quick overview of a longer period and you mention the particular establishment of the Federal Reserve as evidence she is wrong? Two things.
    1. That is akin to denying global warming because its a cold winter.
    2. Establishing a Federal Reserve is a positive, stabilising step in a capitalist system. That it was a private entity which later takes advantage of its power is another matter. Equivalent of establishing a private police force which brings down crime rates but which later gets corrupted. The long term view of the history shows how that corruption of institutions comes in waves, usually when Republicans relax or remove controls.
I, personally, am in agreement with Karl Popper’s prescription for the open society. For it to prosper, it must accept that s*it happens, that people are fallible, that no system is perfect etc ... therefore checks and balances at every level need to be in place, regular reviewed, adjusted and reforms legislated, and so on. It’s an ongoing process. He never used the term "deep state" but, as a refugee who fled the nazis and was well acquainted with Stalinist communism, he was aware of the various ways corruption and exploitation between seemingly disparate people and organisations take place.

For example, did you know that in (i think) 1936, IBM (International Business Machines) approached the Nazi Party and offered to compile a database of all Jews in Germany - names, addresses, professions etc, which they did. Why? They wanted to ingratiate themselves with the new regime whom they knew were antisemitic but probably never imagined what would later be done with that information. Even after the fact, there are people who think the genocide did not happen because it is so ”unthinkable”.

No-one gets to the top of any field, let alone politics in most countries, without owing favours big time.
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ex-l

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Re: Deep State, BKs, and the Alt-Right

Post04 May 2017

Pink Panther wrote:No one gets to the top of any field, let alone politics in most countries, without owing favours big time.

And how do the BKs fit into that equation ... offering a platform to politicians and leaders, offering invitations to "free" increasingly luxurious retreats, giving private support at times of crisis such as deaths and, laterally, pacifying workers for big corporations, police, military personnel all 'no questions asked' regards the greater context?

I don't really know what the term "Deep State" is being used for unless it is another more credible term for "the conspiracy". States, societies have always had more and less powerful individuals, more and less influential players ... since we evolved from apes. Since we were apes.

I suppose the starting point is to define the nature of "power" something, again, the BKs are tapping into with their leadership and, especially, "Future of Power" programs ... hosted by the super-wealthy businessman adherent Mr. Nizar Zuma.

Nizar Zuma, another Sindhi made his extraordinary wealth in Africa. It would be worth studying how.

Something that's most evident to me is that although they have a political agenda, they used to openly call themselves a "politico-religious" cult, it is not openly stated.

There is no "BK political manifesto" (e.g. monarchic, theocratic, entirely anti-democratic, caste based ... very much on the Right, in my opinion, especially in India despite, bizarrely. appealing primarily to Leftie-Liberal types in the West).

It too appears to change with whoever they are appealing to for favours.
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Arbit

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Re: Deep State, BKs, and the Alt-Right

Post05 May 2017

Pink Panther wrote:The historian is offering a quick overview of a longer period and you mention the particular establishment of the Federal Reserve as evidence she is wrong? Two things.

1. That is akin to denying global warming because its a cold winter.

If global warming meant that there would be no cold winters, then I would cite a cold winter as a proof that the assertion is wrong. Of course, global warming doesn't mean that there won't be cold winters, so wrong analogy.

The Author says: "And by the early twentieth century, regular Americans had taken the government back." And I gave a counter example, ergo that assertion is wrong. That is just plain simple logic.
Pink Panther wrote:I, personally, am in agreement with Karl Popper’s prescription for the open society. For it to prosper, it must accept that s*it happens, that people are fallible, that no system is perfect etc ... therefore checks and balances at every level need to be in place, regular reviewed, adjusted and reforms legislated, and so on.

And Federal Reserve had no checks and balances back in 1913 and still does not. That happens because the deep state keeps it that way. Federal Reserve as conceived, from onset, was more for the plutocrats than "regular Americans".

Over time more checks and balances have been removed from the US economic system, e.g., removal of the Glass-Steigal act in late 90s under Bill Clinton, thanks to the deep state. As much as the people try to correct the system, the deep state finds a way to pull things back in its direction. How many more examples would you like?

The point I was making was that "the people" are not the deep state. Over time their influence has steadily diminished and that of the deep state has grown. In any case, at this point this discussion is disconnected from BKs.
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ex-l

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Re: Deep State, BKs, and the Alt-Right

Post05 May 2017

Arbit wrote:In any case, at this point this discussion is disconnected from BKs.

Yup, like someone said, the BKs are small fry but I'd say desperate to get close ... see their wooing of the Mexican president via Brian Bacon, their wooing of Madam Sadat after her husband's death, their wooing of power Arab Sheikhs etc.

Are you just talking about the US or globally? Would you decribe a "deep state" in India?

I'd just call it "business as usual" ... same as it's always been.
Deep State

A body of people, typically influential members of government agencies or the military, believed to be involved in the secret manipulation or control of government policy.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Deep State, BKs, and the Alt-Right

Post05 May 2017

ex-l wrote:And how do the BKs fit into that equation ...

Well, I don't think most politicians or VIPs feel any obligation toward the BK. In India, most will use BKs to show they are ”concerned" about all parts of the constituency, and will use the BK platform to reach the numbers BK can provide.

In a country of around a billion, it won’t be hard to pull a few thousand to any event that’s free. Not sure how it is nowadays in India but I witnessed that large crowds attended some larger BK events, fairs etc and even small local neighbourhood events will pull in hundreds. Most seemed to be going along just to have a look-see, for free entertainment & diversion, for the novelty. The VIPs were either wanting to reach a crowd for their own purposes, and if the BKs organised and supplied a platform for free, why wouldn’t they attend?

Apart from future mutual gain, I can’t see any sense of obligation from any VIP to the BKs. That is, the BKs get more out of any association with big name VIPs than the other way around.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Deep State, BKs, and the Alt-Right

Post06 May 2017

Dan Sheehan has quite an extensive you tube presentation on DS and similar topics.

The following video is an up date on this post: The vieo is titled: Masters of Wealth.

The masters of wealth are global and they are the ones the BKs love to contact.
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