Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
  • Message
  • Author
Offline

EricCartman

  • Posts: 18
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2016

Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post24 Feb 2017

So, I was able to go to India and spend a week in Madhuban. Also attended one BapDada milan. While at the retreat in Mt. Abu, we got paid a visit by both Dadis Janaki and Gulzar. On the whole, the experience was relaxing on a physical level, and quite underwhelming from a meditation/spiritual standpoint. Most people I met while there were wonderful human beings in general. However, I couldn't shake the feeling of being really out of sync with the adoration and thankfulness that filled all the people around me. I just ... did not think ... it was that great ... Meditation was very light, the center in-charge reading the Murli each morning read it in a laconic monotone that rapidly put people to sleep ... the content of the Murlis could have put me to sleep had I not forced myself to stay attentive.

Finally though, BabDada Milan 2016 was a total let down. Not only did I not feel the presence of any god at all, but moreover seeing Dadi Gulzar dolled up with foundation and lipstick etc ... just seemed wrong, she is 90+ and almost out of her wits. Most of her conversation when she came to meet us seemed like rambling nonsense. Ditto for Dadi Janaki, who proceeded to perform her daily exercises while we were in class and was basically completely stage managed by the younger Didis that surrounded her. One specifically had a UK accent.

And this is just the silly stuff, some of the things I heard the center in-charge say during Murli in the auditorium at Gyan Sarovar ... no way a decent human speaks like that ... let alone an "enlightened" person.

I know some of you have had wonderful experiences at Madhuban and actually can feel that drishti ... I tried staring right into Dadi Janki's eyes and then Gulzar's eyes both before and during the time BapDada was inside her. Nothing ...

The cream on the cake though was during BapDada Milan when god, I say, GOD, was speaking through the medium, a junior Didi caretaker person reached over and switched off the microphone! I was flabbergasted ... that's your god talking! What person spends 364 days chanting "Baba Baba" and the one day Baba is actually here, turns off the mic? Seriously! Now in the poor lady's defense, Baba said nothing of any substance at all. Almost 25 minutes were spent repeating one sentence "I love it when you chant Baba, Baba". A lady sitting close to me could not control her laughter after the first 5 minutes of this silliness.

The trip had one decent outcome though, I realized I did not want to spend any more time on BK related stuff. I have started pulling back from center related work. I will find better things to do with my time. Even if I decide to spend it watching Netflix, I think its time better spent than in the center. Now, if I hear something about starting a soup kitchen or providing shelter to the homeless or some such "seva" I will gladly participate, but I am done doing "seva" that seems to be completely inward focused.

Sorry for the rambling rant. I have read some wonderful stories on these boards and the experiences of some really courageous people. I just though I would share some of my experience. It's a slow friday :).
Offline

GuptaRati 6666

  • Posts: 225
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2015

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post25 Feb 2017

The BK institution seems to be undergoing a spiritual entropy that is being denied by the students and leaders, especially the leaders. It is a great wish, it seems, by the BK leadership that Gulzar Dadi will usher in the transformation. It is also great wishful thinking by the BKs that the BKs have the monopoly of the future new world. There is a future new world, many outside the BKs, including my self, think will emerge by the efforts of humanity, all humanity.

There used to be the hope that Kumaka Dadi would have been there in her physical body to usher in the great transformation. It did not happen. The affairs of the world do not orbit around the BKs, though that has been an aim and objective. Will it ever happen? No. Because no one institution can ever claim monopoly on the Great Spirit nor the future transformed world.

Eric, it is best to find the many precious diamond and gold needles in the BK haystack make them into skeleton keys, be authentic and open doors in your inner self, while enjoying life and helping others. By opening doors you will find many treasures that are part of you that you could have ignored and advance in life, physically and spiritually.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1413
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post25 Feb 2017

Love the name Eric Cartman! Welcome to the forum. It sounds to me like you are a mature person, if not in age at least in life awareness. You saw through what it took me years to, probably because i was immature and idealistic, wanting to go along with it. I hope your wife finds it in her to move on and not become dependant on the BK drug of ”spiritual ego”.

I’d say, Gupta that the BK haystack is a good analogy, it really makes it harder for anyone to find the valuable stuff of life as they, pleasant enough as many of them are, smother you with their dogma and sincere nonsense as they try to draw you into their collective delusion.
Offline

GuptaRati 6666

  • Posts: 225
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2015

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post25 Feb 2017

Pink, part of the game in the BK arena has always been finding the jewels knowledge as diamonds and gold needles in the dogmas and becoming a lock-smith. If you do not make the needles into keys for unlocking doors, the BKs will stick them into you not for acupuncture, but to bleed you life energies out of you.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9587
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post25 Feb 2017

Hey, Rants'r'us ... no need to apologise. We're here for people to vent off a little. It's our speciality!
EricCartman wrote:... moreover seeing Dadi Gulzar dolled up with foundation and lipstick etc ... just seemed wrong, she is 90+ and almost out of her wits. Most of her conversation when she came to meet us seemed like rambling nonsense. Ditto for Dadi Janaki, who proceeded to perform her daily exercises while we were in class and was basically completely stage managed by the younger Didis that surrounded her.

The cream on the cake though was during BapDada Milan when god, I say, GOD, was speaking through the medium, a junior Didi caretaker person reached over and switched off the microphone! I was flabbergasted ...

Bottomline is, they're pretty unconcious and ignorant ... may be even they realised that it's rambling nonsense too and it's the only way to stop their "god".

I suppose the make up is 'all for the cameras' ... but it's sounding more and more like an episode of The Walking Dead zombie show to me.

The saddest part of it all is, we never really got to the truth of all the history etc before the old ones died off or went "passed the sell by date".

None of this was really happening in my days but there's been evidence of slipping values for a long time. Dadi Janki having her beard trims is one thing and understandably for any woman ... but full theatrical make up on a 90 year!?! Yikes.
And this is just the silly stuff, some of the things I heard the center in-charge say during Murli in the auditorium at Gyan Sarovar ... no way a decent human speaks like that ... let alone an "enlightened" person.

OK ... let's get down to the real. What sort of stuff were they saying?

It's not gossip, it's important stuff ... documenting real BK attitudes, none of their PR facade.
The trip had one decent outcome though, I realized I did not want to spend any more time on BK related stuff. I have started pulling back from center related work. I will find better things to do with my time.

I suggest opening a t-shirt stall in the tourist market in Mount Abu ...

BK-t-shirt.jpg
BK-t-shirt.jpg (37.68 KiB) Viewed 3984 times


BK-t-shirt3.jpg
BK-t-shirt3.jpg (38.34 KiB) Viewed 3984 times
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9587
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post25 Feb 2017

Or may be even better ...

BK-t-shirt4.jpg
BK-t-shirt4.jpg (37.56 KiB) Viewed 3984 times
Offline

GuptaRati 6666

  • Posts: 225
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2015

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post27 Feb 2017

It can be hurting when we look back at our tenure in the BK culture and think that the decades were wasted. It can be healing when we look back and think that it was a learning experience, have no regrets, and see the bright future ahead of us.
Offline

EricCartman

  • Posts: 18
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2016

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post27 Feb 2017

The center in-charge made some unflattering commentary about an entire religious group. The gist was, (from the Murli) if you took back a gift you gave (gift being equated to any number of things) your next birth would be as a member of that religious group. This religion is quite popular in India, Malaysia, Indonesia and vast regions in North Africa and the Middle East. I'd think a lot of people in the audience might have been former members by birth.

My understanding of the BK god is that there is emotion and intellect in some energetic form. It is also understood that this emotion and intellect are transferred to the medium and the medium's flesh is used to render in words, actions etc, the feelings and thoughts of this Godly energy. It is understandable that the medium would speak in its voice. But! Have the intellect of a god. I don't think the intellect of a god was on display that day with or without stage lights and theatrical makeup.

Others had different experiences. One person told me that they felt the drishti of Baba like the beam of a searchlight and that they did not even need to open their eyes to know when Baba's gaze was focused in their direction. They saw rings of light emanating from the body of the medium. I can understand that anyone that sees something like that would find it very easy to believe that this is god. Does it have something to do with individual sensitivity? Just like some people catch a virus and others don't?

This person's story is not the only time someone has told me how they were touched by Baba or in the more common term "received touching from Baba" (which sounds a bit creepy to be frank). There are others that fully believe that they have witnessed something special. Members of this forum (ex-l and pink included) have mentioned some sort of experience at some point. Sometimes I think it would be interesting to see what happens to me if I were to get some sort of signal. What would I do? Idle speculation at this point.

However, I did manage to join a group discussing one of our favorite topics, dinosaurs, at Madhuban. The question came from a group of kids. There were a couple Sisters there and a bunch of regular folk myself included. After watching these people that probably have never even read a scientific journal or article in their life explain to kids how the dinosaurs could have come about 2500 years ago, I just couldn't stop myself... those kids deserved better, so I waded into that discussion. Suffice to say, the Sisters ended that little session within 5 minutes of me opening my mouth. Some person asked me "do you know the meaning of nuclear chain reaction?" I did not get the sense this person had a whole lot of education. I responded: yes, kindly explain what you know. He proceeded to give me such drivel that a 9th grader would have started laughing. I told him that most of what he said was wrong and he should really try to find out what terms he uses actually mean. did not make a lot of friends that evening.
Offline

EricCartman

  • Posts: 18
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2016

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post27 Feb 2017

Pink, thank you for the kind words. I do still have concerns, but over the last few months, it's become clearer to me how centered my wife is. She has her doubts but she has put them aside to really believe that Baba is god. There are pictures of orange ink splat and Lekhraj at strategic places in my house. However, my wife is listening to a lot of spiritual talks, discourses etc from a lot of people not just BK.

I think her understanding of spirituality in general is deeper and more profound than BK doctrine at this point. When she speaks on a topic of spirituality, it has no BK dogma attached to it, so I am hopeful for her. I try to give my daughter real intellectual curiosity and encourage her to ask questions and use her own intellect.

Let's see how things evolve there.
Offline

EricCartman

  • Posts: 18
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2016

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post27 Feb 2017

T-Shirts are hilarious, but alas I would have to explain the words to my average customer at At Abu ... but I could put an ink splat on the top left and they would sell out in 5 minutes :).
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1413
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post28 Feb 2017

Members of this forum (ex-l and pink included) have mentioned some sort of experience at some point. Sometimes I think it would be interesting to see what happens to me if I were to get some sort of signal.

The funny (peculiar) thing is that there are people in all religions and traditions who have different kinds of experiences. There are those who experience the light-shows, auras & visions, those who ”feel the love”, those who find serenity or sense in the language and rituals of that belief system, those who find a ‘career’, purpose or validation of their activities (what I do matters? !!) , those who have, for the first time, found a fellowship or community ... and so on.

Conversely there is no religion or tradition where everyone gets the lightshows, auras and visions, where everyone ‘feels the love’ in the same way all the time ... etc. If I am a ”giver”, almost any tradition will have a channel within which I can practice giving. If I am a meditative mystical type, almost any tradition has a practice for that. In the modern world, however we tend to see the faults in our inherited tradition and see the exotic ones with rose-coloured glasses. We might, for example, have grown up with a parish priest who was no deeper than a puddle, then become disgusted by the corruption of the Vatican and never encountered the meditative practices of Meister Ekhardt or the inspired art of the renaissance ...

As it's said in Tibetan Buddhism, there are countless meditations and countless fruits (experiences) of those countless meditations.

One reason BK teaching can be appealing to a spiritual seeker is that there are so many wafflers out there in the spiritual marketplace, even in my current preferred tradition of study and practice, Buddhism and the Tao, but especially Buddhism, there are so many convoluted nitpickers who shoot wide of the mark, or dry scholastic types, it turns people off. So many vagaries. Whereas BK teachings are simple and clear cut (simplistic, easy to hold in mind if one chooses to) that it utilises the mind’s chattering nature, replacing the ”worldly’ chatter with BK jargon chatter, affirmations etc, rather than teaching the student how to stop chattering or affirming.

Affirmations (I am a soul, I am god's child, I am this or that ...) are, IMO, proof of what you don't believe you are! Someone who is happy doesn't need to tell themselves "I am happy". Someone who feels purposeful in life doesn’t need to tell themselves what their purpose in life is, at least not so often and so regularly In that way, they do what brings that sense of being.

Such teachings and practices as the BKs (and they aren’t the only ones) are a great crutch for those who don’t live with a natural sense of being that way, and the BKs thrive on attracting people who are going though a temporary or chronic loss of purpose or alienation, or merely a period of no joie de vivre induced by life's travails.

But I think the teaching in its entirety includes entrapment so any person who has really taken it on board and put in time and effort to think the BK way can never be free of it without putting in similar time and effort to change their thinking.

You cannot be a healthy vegetarian just by taking the meat off the plate. You need to learn to shop and to cook differently. So too the ”spiritual student” must learn to let go of thinking that what is understood is all there is to understand, or how one understands is the only way understanding happens. BK teaches quite blatantly, we are it, this is it, time is short, the end is nigh, this is god and the rest are shams or false memories ...
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9587
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post28 Feb 2017

Pink Panther wrote:The funny (peculiar) thing is that there are people in all religions and traditions who have different kinds of experiences ...

Of course that's true ... but I'd still say there are a high proportion of individuals having weird experiences in BKism - and more easily or with absolutely no effort - than in other religions ... most of whom are having absolute zero experiences beyond sore knees (most meditation or Yoga groups) or self-induced hysteria (many Christian type movements).

I don't think that kind of defraying argument works well, simply because so many people *do* have so many experiences.

Or at least did in my/our time ... I don't know how it is now.

Of course, what I would accept is that it might be on a par with other such ecstatic religions during their heydays, e.g. anything from the Shakers, to Mesmerism, to some of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement.

If I think of some of the experience "students" or encultees during the 7 Day Course had, even on their first sit down experience, e.g. out of the body experiences, lights, floating feelings, transmogrifications etc, and via dhristis ... you could not say a similar proportion had them during their first 7 Bible, Koran readings or mindfulness breathing classes or staring at their local Imam.

And when we read or hear about the early Om Mandli days, and all the days long trances, moonlight trance dancing, and far more ecstatic (and fearful) experience the women were having, I think we have to admit those experiences and factor them in to our understanding of what is going on, and accept that they are key to the BKs success. That it is not *all* projection (accepting that much is also now).

Such experiences do seem to be more prevalent during religions "charismatic" period ... (almost always the beginning, or at least a revival).

The questions are; how and why?

I doubt that many in the mass 'burping, farting and coughing' VIP mega programmes now are having much of an experience, just as most are reporting feeling zero - or even being off put - at the Baba Milan events.

There's a quote I remember from Tibetan Buddhism re spiritualism that goes something like, "Just because they are dead (the spirits), it does not mean they are enlightened".

I'd rather more take the position to accept the experience, even that they have more experiences, but that, "Just because you see or feel something weird, it does not mean it is good (nevermind "God"), nor that it will lead you to enlightenment".
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1413
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post01 Mar 2017

I agree completely with that ex-l. The proportions of ”.. people in all religions and traditions who have different kinds of experiences”” will vary. My point was that the group, whichever group, provides a context for the individual’s predilections to emerge, and people will tend to be drawn to the kind of group where that kind of experience is ‘entertained’ or at least promised; especially if the one they are born into or their dominant cultural surrounds does not readily lead them into that part of themselves.

As a meditation group, the BKs will draw a larger proportion of certain ‘types’ while the Salvation Army will draw more of another type, the ”prosperity Gospel” christians more of another type. But within each group there will a smattering of the different characters I touched on. And always the political power players and money grubs will find a place to explore their talents. Nearly all of them, the group leaders, live off the sweat of the labour of the sincerely deluded faithful. (And I am not saying such group social dynamics, all religions and groups, are ‘bad’, they just are what they are - good and bad, sad and mad, expressions of the human condition in all its manifold glory).

I also wrote what I did based on memories of what so many people who were seriously into BKs for a short or medium or longer term had told me.

I’d been to Abu many times, probably had 14 or so personal meetings with BapDada, in the days that meant something, and many discussions took place of people’s experiences. Things like how they’d had better experiences of ”god” in their private meditations at home than anything in Madhuban, whether in meeting BapDada or in bhattis etc (which IMO says a lot), many who had visual ‘experiences, lights, auras, etc but who did not ”get” the Gyan and to them BapDada was just another ”manifestation" (let’s call them New Age ecumenicals) or others who really took the Gyan and ran with it but felt outside the ”family” or for whom the way BapDada should be and the way BapDada acted & spoke did not gel. Some who’d been BKs for years, never really having the ‘powerful” meditations that other people described but hoped their visit to Madhuban might be a trigger for a new ‘level’ of consciousness but only found there disappointment and disillusionment, when finally making it to mythical Madhuban, finding the reality fell far short. Just as for a Roman Catholic communion wine is something sanctified but for everyone else it is just wine, so too BapDada reflects all kinds of projections and expectations of the individual BKs. Those who see the BapDada/Gulzar ”milan” thing for what it is, an older Indian lady spouting the same things for decades, whether they are ‘disappointed' or unaffected, are the lucky ones indeed. Especially if they take that as their cue to ‘exit, stage left”.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9587
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post01 Mar 2017

Yes, the 'meeting with BapDada disappointment' is, for me, the most inexplicable one ... and perhaps the one to support the equation that the "god" or experience which individuals are having, is nothing to do with the one allegedly sitting inside Gulzar's brainbox.

You would have thought that there could have been some kind of guarantee in it? Instead folk come back affirming to themselves that "it" happened in a causal walk across Baba's garden, or sitting on some rock somewhere. One would have to equate a degree of pressure, both internal (personal) and external (group) to have "an experience" especially after the investment in order to have one.

Especially given the almost sexual combination of 'tension' caused by prolonged abstinence (both literally but also the 6 month or one year wait), followed by the 'release' of union in the physical meeting.

I can only imagine it's 1,000 times worse now that the meetings are done in batches and in an aircraft hanger sized auditorium of very mixed souls. Poor bastards that have only come into Gyan in the last 5 or 10 years and those such as the poor from anywhere; who spend a year saving for the occasion only to be herded around and penned in like animals.

The BKs claim the 6 month to one year wait is to ensure the BK adherent is "purified" enough to take benefit ... but is it not just all about artificially building anticipation and conditioning the individual?

I guess you were of the last generation to have one to one meetings with the god spirit?

Was it ever "special" for you ... or was it stage managed by the Seniors even back then?

Nowadays the proles seem as excited, and make do, to just get an answer to their email from Sister Shivani.
Offline

GuptaRati 6666

  • Posts: 225
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2015

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post03 Mar 2017

My meetings with Baap Dada have always been up front and very personal. My rapport with the god spirit has always baffled many in the BK top brass from day one, which was more than 40 years ago. If I divulge the details, my cover will be blown and I have to maintain my anonymity.

Some in the BK inner circles were concerned that the god spirit was giving invaluable jewels to a non-Bharatwasi who in those days was just only a decade in Gyan and maintained a successful professional career.
Next

Return to Commonroom

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests