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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 19 Jan 2019
by Rajdhani
ex-l wrote:As their numbers decline, through demographics or yet another failure of Destruction to come and save them, they will be able to sell off all the properties one by one and use that capital to live off, retreating back to headquarters. They will change BKism yet again to become just some weekend thing, like the Christians with their Sunday morning 'take' on people's lives.

Even if we go by conservative estimates, BK real estate is worth anywhere between $0.5 Billion to $1 Billion US Dollars, as of today. If there is no major property bubble burst, which is unlikely for the plots in India (apartments will see stagnation and even depreciation as the building gets old but all the properties owned by the BKs are all built on independent plots, so even if the building gets old, the plot is still gold), the value will go north over period of time. They may even be worth 2 Billion upwards if you consider overseas properties and other cash inflows.

Here is the ball park estimate of their wealth:
    1. 10 A1 cities in India with at least 25 BK centers (10*25=250) * 2 Crore INR = 500 Crores INR
    2. 20 A cities in India with at least 15 to 20 centers (20*15=300) * 1.5 Crore INR = 450 Crores INR
    3. Retreat centers, at least 3 in each of the 29 states in India. These are 1 to 2 acre places which were on the
    outskirts but now command a good real estate value. These kind of places are most sought after places to build
    apartment complexes. (3*29=87) * 10 Crores INR = 870 Crores INR
    4. 22 B1 cities in India with 10 centers (22*10=220) * 0.75 Crores=165 Crores INR
    5. 40 B2 cities in India with 7 centers (40*7=280)*0.6 Crores=168 Crores INR
    6. 300 C towns in India with 3 centers (300*3=900)*0.5 Crores=450 Crores INR
    7. 1,000 other towns in India with 1 center (1,000*1=1,000)*0.5 Crores per center=500 Crores INR
Conservative total worth = 3,103 Crores INR (~0.5 Billion USD).

Overseas properties are not considered here as I do not know approximately how many are owned and how many belong to the followers. ~3,000 centers in India are considered out of the 8,500 worldwide centers what they claim. I am not sure if the Geetha Paatashalaas are also included in this 8,500 centers.

Mind you, if they really have 8,500 centers including Geetha Patashalas, 8.5K - 3K = 5.5K. Even if 2.5 K are Geetha patashalas and the remaining 3K are full fledged centers are rented ones, these 2.5K ardent followers running the Geetha Pathashalas will end up giving their everything as they age to secure a "good" place.

Secondly, liquid Cash Flow
    9,00,000 followers contributing regularly at their centers and the additional revenue to Mt. Abu with an average foot fall of 20,000 followers per Milan (total 12 Milans in a year=2,40,000 visitors). This is a recurring thing happening from several decades and by now the BKs will already be sitting on a big cash pile (numbers were less in the initial few decades but has picked up well from the 90s onward).

    Of course, they also spend a lot on public programs, again this is also partially funded by the local BK center zones who will in turn collect additional money from the followers. I really do not know the ratio of contribution by the local centers and from the head quarters.
Thirdly, the Bonus:
    1. Aged followers donating their savings and their share of the property in the hope of supporting God's cause and to earn good name in the books of the Sisters (who will pamper the donors with special treatment) and Baba.

    2. All the Kumars (worker bees) who are working in a real job and collecting the honey in the form of salary, pension fund/retirement money they would have written their will to the BKs. I remember some very senior Brother mentioning this topic in Mt. Abu special classes in a subtle way and trigger your subconscious mind to write a will to the organization. This I think they will repeat in every season and also indirectly train the teachers to tell so in individual centers.

    (For example, in the headquarters, in a teacher specific Bhattis, they might teach that it is the responsibility of the teacher to ensure the followers at the respective center to use their earnings and wealth and inherited property for the Yagya the benefit of which will be earned by the teacher as well as the follower in Satyayug).

    As per Indian laws, the girls are also entitled for ancestral property share. Out of thousands of surrendered teachers, at least few hundreds will inherit some property or cash in lieu of property which I guess will go to the BK coffers.

    3. I think the newly surrendered Sisters' parents donate some good money (this is my guess) which in any case in Indian scenario will be saved for their daughter's wedding. Periodically, they will also get some good pocket money too. Again, there will be haves and the have nots among the surrendered Sisters based on their Parent's financial condition. Because of the uniform and other common rules, I hope the disparity is not a major problem)

    4. They take outside donations from non followers, there is no much force or compulsion, but they do take it. I do not have any info/data on this.

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 19 Jan 2019
by Rajdhani
EricCartman wrote:However, I did manage to join a group discussing one of our favorite topics, dinosaurs, at Madhuban. The question came from a group of kids. There were a couple Sisters there and a bunch of regular folk myself included.

After watching these people that probably have never even read a scientific journal or article in their life explain to kids how the dinosaurs could have come about 2500 years ago, I just couldn't stop myself... those kids deserved better, so I waded into that discussion.

Suffice to say, the Sisters ended that little session within 5 minutes of me opening my mouth.

Thanks for sharing your experience Eric Cartman.

I remember participating in a BK Bhatti years ago (not in Mt. Abu but in my state's retreat center), the non-BK guest was a learned man and held a senior post in University (may be retired, I am not sure. He is still big though, position wise and intellectually also). He gave a 30 to 40 minute lecture on how the universe evolved. He gave all the details of dinosaurs, pre-historic men, cave life etc, etc, in a chronological order sitting right next to the Senior Sister (She was making all sorts of body language and facial expression that she is bored to the core and getting restless. This was clearly visible to the crown and was intentional. The person delivering the lecture couldn't see her as he was sitting side by side at a distance).

It was indeed mesmerizing and immersive, just like today's National Geographic documentary on the Earth's evolution. I experience Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response (ASMR) sometimes and in some situations since childhood. That day, I enjoyed very deep ASMR trigger during the entire talk.

(Side-story: I've never experienced ASMR during my brief stint as a BK and I've never come across anybody whom I know in person who have experienced this phenomenon, I keep asking my friends, colleagues and even acquaintances, they've all said "No". One fine day, I googled and found out what it is).

I am sure he had a basic understanding of BKs prior hand through third party or may be through official channel through a short BK course. He left the premises after he was done with the talk. Once the Senior most zonal-in-charge Sister ensured the University gentleman has left the campus, she turned to the audience and said that whatever that man just told was absolute, useless stuff!!!

I think the crowd was around 30 in number and mostly consisted of home makers and retired people.

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 20 Jan 2019
by Pink Panther
HI Rajdhani

A couple of interesting posts there.

In terms of assets held in foreign centres, in the major cities of developed nations (OECD) the properties that are owned which are centres are usually large enough to hold medium size gatherings, larger houses essentially, or as in Sydney, a medium-sized commercial building, they’d be worth around the $1million USD give or take.

Then there are the large retreat centres. These are usually out of town but are properties of substantial size, the area of Pandav Bhavan in Mt Abu would be a good approximation, with some being larger. These would likely be valued at anything from $2.5million USD and upwards

The BK revenue streams have far fewer people contributing than in India but if it is done regularly as a proportion of income, that makes up for it in other ways - and much of that finds it way back to India.

As regards to your Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response (ASMR) - not sure if it is the same but I can relate to it in terms of the sensations I’ve had sometimes listening to particular pieces of music. The Wikipedia article says that it is inconclusive whether peopel are talking about the same thing.

I like the article’s look at the similarity with synaesthesia - which these may be mild forms of, given that one sense sets off the other. I have had occasional experiences in meditation that had me in physically ”excited” states even as my mind was stilling, almost orgasmic to be honest. I think this comes from intense emotional focusing whilst maintaining physical stillness in certain kinds of environments. Lots of research could be done.

Regarding the attitude of BK Seniors to scientists and professionals - they manipulate the anti-intellectualism found in a majority of people who lack the humility to say ”I don't know” and defer to those who do. This kind of anti-intellectualism plays to the notion that these "high ideas” have nothing to do with people’s daily concerns and are distractions.

They will gladly quote the pseudo-science of people like Dr Emoto with his emotionally sensitive rice experiments (easily debunked because of lack of rigour in his idea experiments and lack of peer verification) - as a supposed ”University”, a Vishwa Vidyalaya” , why are they not setting up research to see if they can replicate the results things they like to quote? Is it because that, as far as being a "University”, they are all wrapping and ribbons with no parcel inside?
faux-facadeBK.jpg (190.2 KiB) Viewed 7710 times

No ownership claimed for this cartoon. © remains with the original artist

If climate change didn’t fit into the BK scenario of impending apocalypse, they’d definitely be in the deniers’ camp. It’s ironic that they choose to accept and reiterate the complexities of climate science yet they will dismiss the irrefutable proofs found in the harder sciences - physics, geology, etc.

Wikipedia information needs a neutral point of view

PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019
by Rita
Wikipedia needs a neutral point of view to edit the information about Brahma_Kumaris.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood something. Ignore the post or delete it.

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019
by ex-l
Rajdhani wrote:Even if we go by conservative estimates, BK real estate is worth anywhere between $0.5 Billion to $1 Billion US Dollars, as of today.

Congratulations, you're probably the first person - outside of the BKs' inner circle accounting team - to attempt an estimation of their worth.

I would add several millions USD for all the major Western countries; USA, UK, Germany, Russia, Australia etc where they have expensive retreat headquarters and retreat centres. Kenya is another one, I think, that to that SIndhi millionaire/billionaire..

However, I think;
    a) you are missing out the huge gold, cash and jewellry reserves held by Mount Abu (and perhaps elsewhere). Some BK here accidentally said they have enough cash reserves to last for 10 years.

    (Why when they predict that social will collapse before the final Destruction, and what will it buy if Destruction does came? Are they suggesting Destruction is more than 10 years away?), and
    b) I would diverge with you on what "the Bonus element" is.
For me, the bonus elements would be when they are lucky enough to "hit the jackpot" and encult some millionaire or another and clean out their bank. Or get grants of land from the government.

I suspect, as with most confidence tricks, and given their relatively high running costs, most of the time individual centres are just getting by ... but the big pays off are when they manage to pull a VIP or rich follower and hit gold.

For me, it is the most obscene joke for a cult who have made their money on pushing a "two to three years until Destruction" line - and encouraging followers to donate all their money on that basis - to then profit hugely throug rising property and land prices.

Of lands and peoples that should be nuked and dead by now.

There have also been property deals done within the cult, eg money going in via one country and coming out via another, or deals up in Madhuban that we know little of.

I suppose you could also estimate;
    i) the number of followers and approximate an average 10% of their income going to the cult as the day to day income, and
    ii) the number of kunyas - young virgin girls - and account for the number of dowries going to the cult.

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 22 Jan 2019
by Pink Panther
ex-l wrote:you are missing out the huge gold, cash and jewellery reserves held by Mount Abu (and perhaps elsewhere)

Given that the value of gold, diamonds, etc go up in times of crisis and down in less ”interesting” times, it would surprise me if someone in the organisation has not been given responsibility for buying low and selling high.

It also partly explains why they love to promote a sense of crisis! The value of those holding will rise. People at that time will donate / offload assets which are useless in a ”post-vinash” world, hoping to buy ”merit points” by donating at exactly the time they are more valuable on the open market!

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 25 Jan 2019
by oldbk
Does anyone have inside news on the status of Dadi Gulzar ? There seems to be a complete blackout on news about her health. Even if you search on the internet, you cannot find any news or updates about her.

Seems to be a calculated effort to obliterate any reference to her and her health. Some reasons that I can think of,
    1. Continue to use past BapData Milan videos, and keep the faithful and ignorant believing it is real i.e. current
    2. Don't have to answer questions, like "why BapDada's Chariot is having bodily suffering, when it is supposed to have burnt all sins with Yoga.
    3. Even with karmic accounts, as they say, you burn your sins with meditation. Why is this soul still suffering in body. By hiding the status, it is not even providing any benefit to others (as an example of blah blah blah).
While I don't wish for it, I foresee a future where this organization implodes into controversies, similar to many of thee other such organizations. Feel bad for the many Souls that are looking at BKs for hope and future. Like looking for salvation from the messenger instead of looking at the message. Which none (not 100%) at the higher level seems to follow.

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 22 Mar 2019
by son_goku
I'll share my first BapMilan experience, it was in the days when all the double foreigners would get one to one dristi from BapDada.

I went with no expectations, and did my best to maintain a clear and open mind. On receiving dristi, time slowed down for me, and I recall just being lost the moment. Once the dristi ended (moved to the next person), I felt as if I had received powerful experience.

Afterward I felt a great deal of happiness, stength, love and peace. I was on a high for a day or two. I did not sleep a wink that night and felt no tiredness the next day.

On my next visit, I felt nothing. From sharings, others have received similar experiences to mine, and others have never received anything. If you did not receive any dristi experience, the teacher would say you must have received a boon in a different form: Gyan, Yoga or seva.

During my time as a BK I've seen a number of changes of the BapMilans:
    * First no more walking on stage to receive dristi - it would take too long
    * The Murlis becoming shorter.
    * Fewer meetings each season.
    * Less coherent dialogue from BapDada - sometimes coming across as confused/mistaken.
    * Change in the atmosphere of Madhuban: less discipline/focus, prevalence of mobile phones means much of the audience is talking/messaging/or taking pictures rather than staying in silence and adding to the positive vibrations.
    * Due to Dadi Gulzar's ill health, and therefore absence, old Murlis are played these days. Although first timers report enjoying the vibrations a great deal.
Older BKs will no doubt say they used to have one to one talks with BapDada.

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 22 Mar 2019
by ex-l
son_goku wrote:prevalence of mobile phones means much of the audience is talking/messaging/or taking pictures.

Amazing ... so unclassy.

Is mobile phone use even sattvic? :shock:

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019
by GuptaRati 6666
For sure it is not.

Although the BKs may claim that their vibrations are higher than those of other spiritual individuals and, therefore their energies cannot be influenced by the microwaves of cell phones, there is strong scientific evidence linking cell phone use with specific brain tumors. The electromagnetic waves from cell phone also have mood altering properties.

Additionally, cell phones are extra eyes and ears for agencies such as the US National Security Agency.

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 25 Mar 2019
by oldbk
* Due to Dadi Gulzar's ill health, and therefore absence, old Murlis are played these days *

BKs talk about karmic accounts, and "you burn your sins with Yoga". Why is Dadi Gulzar still suffering in this mortal body? Doesn't her Yoga and spiritual stage burn her sins and relieve this suffering?

Baba also says on our problems,
"those like mountains will become like a mole hill"

And no one talks about her these days, and almost a 100% media blackout on her too !

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 31 Mar 2019
by GuptaRati 6666
Where are the BK medical experts from the Janki Foundation, who could have prevented the demise of Kumaka Dadi and should have also prevented the decline of Gulzar Dadi and even cured her?

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 31 Mar 2019
by ex-l
They have an awkward euphemism to explain it, don't they?

Something like "karmic accounts with the body". Or suggest that "the body" has its own karmic accounting system separate from the soul's. That is to say, she's still perfect inside ... but only the outside is faulted and suffering. Then, as with Kumarka, they will go as far as to describe senility as "being in Baba's lap" or perfect remembrance.

Their use of language, and what it says (denial, dishonesty), is worth studying on its own.

Fair enough, Gulzar has lived a long life and for much of it eaten badly, not exercised and been subject to the demonstrations of her allegedly being possessed by the spirit of their "God", or the BapDadas.

She's spent a large part of her life, from childhood, in trance and now she ends up drooling and requiring 24/7 care, hidden from her public.

It's a far cry from powerful, traditional yogi who, according to legend at lease, chooses their moment of death and leaves at will. All it really underlines is that BKism is 99% marketing bullsh*t - as in, no one really knows what it going on or why - and they'll twist anything to fit their agenda.

How many's livelihood, their daily sustenance, depends on that myth being sustained?

I wonder if they are at all nervous about the ponzi scheme unravelling and having to get a real job?
Its head office was miles from anywhere. Surrounded by colleagues day and night, he rarely saw outsiders, or customers - let alone the riches he had been promised.

... its revenue came from the “donations” which he, his Sister and other members of the swelling workforce willingly paid out in the expectation of big returns.

Eventually [he] realised the operation was a scam. The firm’s real business, he realised, was to trick people into handing over money and then persuade them to hoodwink others to do the same.

Note from the analysis of how ponzi schemes work above, "their liabilities exceed their assets; when recruitment falters, the schemes collapse".

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 01 Apr 2019
by GuptaRati 6666

Thank you for your extensive answer. Most likely the BK scheme will morph into another scheme before the legalities catch up with them. I am sure many Western and Western oriented BKs are scrambling to take good care of their bodies and needs of their bodies. They are dealing with balancing their srimath and manmath.

Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

PostPosted: 03 Apr 2019
by oldbk
Here are the "narcissist" updates from Madhuban/Nirwair.
    1. Hon. Doctorate Degree Presented to Bro. BK Mruthyunjaya by Ranchi University - Passed with zero marks!
    2. Theme for next "Season" - "God's Power for Re-establishment of Golden Aged Bharat" - keeping in mind ["great transformation taking place under Avyakt BapDada's direct guidance.]
    3. Video Department of Shantivan were very helpful in organising Avyakt BapDada's Murlis (abridged) for every meeting. All felt very refreshed with the Revision Course - [[Who gave you permission to Revise, have guts to share the original along with the Revision for BKs to compare them ? Avyakt BapDada did that too ?
    4. Final programme of Avyakt Meetings for this season 2018-2019 will take place on 2 April 2019, and will be attended by nearly 16,000 BKs (as per today's list) from Bharat and overseas Centres - [[How can you still call it Avyakt meetings, no shame or fear of your own beliefs (or lack of). Obviously, there are lot more cows to be milked, before they run dry
"Remember - 100 fold punishment is waiting for you, being experienced by Senior Sisters in front of you !"