Karma

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
  • Message
  • Author

bansy

  • Posts: 1593
  • Joined: 30 Apr 2006

Re: Karma

Post03 Mar 2009

OK big boys, let' s put karma into practical perspective, forget the theory.

Today, it was really windy, and a tree fell down and onto your car as you drove. You managed to escape alive but your friend on the passenger seat gets a direct blow from the trunk and dies instantly. Explain karma. Let's spice it up and that friend was your mother.

I have no idea what karma is otherwise the answer is "que sera sera" and have to accept the consequences of a "que sera sera" scenario as given above.

jann

friends or family of a BK

  • Posts: 1227
  • Joined: 29 Jan 2007
  • Location: europe

Re: Karma

Post03 Mar 2009

She must have been a prostitute or a killer in her past life. ;) :shock:

Terry

ex-BK

  • Posts: 389
  • Joined: 04 Jan 2009
  • Location: OZ

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

Bansy wrote: ...your [mother] on the passenger seat gets a direct blow from the [tree] trunk and dies instantly. Explain karma.

Most people would presume that the mum had bad karma - such a shallow understanding, The sage of sydney says: The mother had good karma because she died instantly. The driver had bad karma that's why he/she is destined to live in grief AND deal with insurance companies!

They avoid payout by proving driver negligence. Driver charged with manslaughter. In gaol, is brutalised whilst riven with guilt and sorrow. Finds hope when a white sari'd woman comes to the prison and runs a regular program. Driver finds a "reason" explaining why mum had to die. Driver converts to new belief thinking, "how fortunate I am, mum's bad karma, my good karma to be found by Baba" - which is of course contrary to the real karma record (on akashic cassette).

BTW, when technology changes, you have to accumulate a new karmic record because the old one won't work anymore. We are now on mp3. (Psst ... any karma recorded between 1958 and 1988 on vinyl is becoming cool again, so keep that).


What's the reality about karma in your example Bansy? No Car. No Ma! ... and wash that dogma off your sole people.
User avatar

Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1876
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

I've said it before and will again, I sometimes wonder about the motives of people on this site.

This just is not the place to discuss Gyan, it's bollocks.

Karma is bollocks. You use the word practically, then expound another theory. There is no practicality to karma. It simply doesn't exist. It is an old fashioned romantic religious belief ... it has value only on that level.

Most westerners use it as a tool to masturbate with their intellect, and then ejaculate their 'deep understanding' on anyone willing to listen (usually a fellow practioner). I expect this post will be ignored like all other contributions I make as it is not ten paragraphs long and dropping names of really clever people that show how well read I am.
User avatar

paulkershaw

ex-BK

  • Posts: 863
  • Joined: 11 Dec 2006
  • Location: South Africa

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

Today, it was really windy, and a tree fell down and onto your car as you drove. You managed to escape alive but your friend on the passenger seat gets a direct blow from the trunk and dies instantly. Explain karma. Let's spice it up and that friend was your mother.

Or perhaps the lesson is to learn the way to avoid these things happening to one and not question as to why and how!

Terry

ex-BK

  • Posts: 389
  • Joined: 04 Jan 2009
  • Location: OZ

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

Hey Mr Green,

maybe you're down on yourself, or you think others are, but I love your posts and keep an eye out for them!

You are perceptive and concise, e.g you said
Mr Green wrote:you use the word practical then expound another theory

that is exactly what I picked up. I agree with you completely, but my mind whirred in another direction wanting to create a "version" of karma philosophy to show how "bollocks" it can be ... you say it better methinks.

I prefer the sweet potato philosophy spoken by Sri Popietha Saylorman, "I yam's what I yams".

john morgan

ex-BK

  • Posts: 397
  • Joined: 06 Oct 2007

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

Hey Mr Green,

You are, of course, absolutely correct Gyan is - ********! What one learns with Gyan is how to think, the high energy thoughts are remarkable. Each day one creates a brand new psychosis. Hopefully its a good one. If a meditator steps into the Golden Age, there is no Gyan - its gone! Why is it gone? You do not think about it!

If one steps into the Confluence Age there is Gyan. In Gyan terms, its the very best place to be. There is so much knowledge, so much love and one can access this love and help others. One's ability to do this depends on thought control, that is why so much time is spent in Gyan teaching thought control. The part of a Brahmin is a very good part to play!

In thought one re-creates the descent of God into this world. At some point in the meditation, Baba is real unless one decides that he is not! Then you have an atheist meditation! If we cannot control our thoughts it is easy to create a hell as bad as anything one can imagine but if we can control our thoughts then marvellous things are possible. To control these mighty forces great discipline is required ... hence the rules!

So God exists and God does not exist - two completely different meditations! Is one stronger than the other? Is one more peaceful? Does one meditation give one more self control? A good myth can be highly beneficial to the meditator. Is Baba a myth? His instructions come in the Murli and there are around a million people on this planet who believe in him. Some have learnt to access transcendental happiness with each thought. Everyone takes it or leaves it. So Mr Green you are absolutely correct ... Gyan is B*******!

Is close proximity to the BK necessary to progress in Gyan? No it is not - but so many are the pitfalls that if one can it is definitely advisable. I thought it was best not to be a maverick yogi but the BK have banned me. Self monitoring and self reliance are great assets so it is all for the best.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10408
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

Dear Mr Wise: I am a simple BK ... Please answer me this.

What is the mechanism by which giving money to the BKWSU leadership, today, is rewarded with increased status, wealth and property in the future Golden Age as they tell me?

john morgan

ex-BK

  • Posts: 397
  • Joined: 06 Oct 2007

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

Hi ex-I,

No doubt the person to whom you addressed this question will reply in due course, in the meantime I'd like to comment.

No mechanism exists. To, again, quote the erudite Mr Green, B********!

Despite having made Mr Green's thought my own, I still think the main BK activity elevated and worth supporting financially. Mostly the BK put money to good use but I find, "The Biggest Billboard in the World" questionable. Perhaps it was a private donor and not sanctioned from Madhuban! Could the luxury apartment dispute in Russia be similarly funded? Why did the BK Shanghai me over donation issues? Agh, ex-I, what are you doing to me? This was supposed to be a good day!

I knew a chap who rented the London Palladium for two whole weeks to speak his religion to others £250,000 was the cost. The average attendance was very low, a room with less than 20 chairs would have been more than sufficient.

Small is beautiful can be a good mantra ;) ... The smaller the better!
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10408
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

"Mr Wise" was a BK cartoon character from the "Purity" or Gyan Amrit magazine, wasn't he? I think modelled on an Indian Pundit. From memory, a smart ass BK character would ask him questions he could not answer.

So ... Mr Wise ... if there is no mechanism by which giving money to the BKWSU leadership, today, is rewarded with increased status, wealth and property in the future Golden Age why do they tell their followers to do so?

It all goes back to the same question ... no "IF there is any Law of Karma" but how, what, where and what limits or determinations apply to it.

bansy

  • Posts: 1593
  • Joined: 30 Apr 2006

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

If everything is bo****ks, then what is this forum about ?
I've said it before and will again, I sometimes wonder about the motives of people on this site
you use the word practical then expound another theory

You couldn't be more specific, could you?

I think the problem that folks can have being ex-BKs is that they were taught a lot of "theory of karma" by BKs. Now they are ex-BK-ed, and screwed up, they cannot use such a "theory" as it would be acceptance that the BKs were somehow right. The "it is your own "karma" in yer face" is hard to swallow. But then they wonder what went wrong, want some sort of vengeance, why did it happen to me, why are there happy faces, etc? Grrrrhhhhh.

However, the best way to expound the theory of karma, or any points of Gyan, is to show how it cannot be used in situations, how it does NOT apply, how silly it can be, how insensitive it can be, such as
He must have been a prostitute or a killer in her past life.
The mother had good karma because she died instantly. The driver had bad karma that's why he/she is destined to live in grief AND deal with insurance companies.!

And I gave an answer of
que sera sera
To learn the way to avoid these things happening to one and not question as to why and how!

Now, if any BK is reading this post, they would think that maybe all these four quotes are correct, and would think of karma as something else, as many here have done so. The way to dismantle the BKWSU is to disprove as much of the nonsense so that others will read about it here.

If another "theory" came out, as replies have shown, it just goes to show that there is more ideas and how karma can be thrown out. But you cannot write it off by saying it is "b*****ks", because that is also b*****ks". Does anyone think telling a BK that karma is b*****ks will make a BK turn their head, it will just reinforce their belief that it is right.

The only poster in this forum who has always maintained such a stand to getting a reasoning is ex-l. Previously I posted before that this forum had no aim because at times, it has become simply a bunch of spoilt ex-BKs who had their beans spilled and is asking for some mummy to wipe their mouths and maybe their ar*s* too. It seems like the same hole. Even if you dismantle the BKWSU one day, hurrah and congratulations multimilliontimes, you will have a bit of respite, go away to your part of the world, but you have still been f*****ed up regardless by them.

Saying that Gyan or karma is b*****ks is no statement at all. It is just affirmation of something you knew. And whilst it may relief one or two here for a little time, it still does not take the sting out that you were and are still f***ed.

Have a look at the second post in this thread, 15 pages back and almost 3 years ago :
by Mr Green » 21 May 2006 05:00 pm

To me karma is just simple, energy created attracts energy ... or something :lol:

So we are making progress. :shock:

I, personally, have no motive or care less about the motives of others in this forum. It is up to each person what they write and share. Because life is much bigger than one forum. It has shrunk even further as the forums have partitioned. If this forum is to only be an ex-BK only forum, where there is no talk about any Gyan concepts, and becomes a place where people just want to blame, then it is really easy because everyone will agree.

You are all getting too comfortable amongst yourselves now that there are no BKs or PBKs, and patting each other in the back that "you're one of us" and whilst that is supportive, you will always need that patting. Will it have any reach? I doubt it. Any BKs will now look at this and see it as another forum. No BKs are even here hanging around as before, you've banned them. Maybe some savvy net BK westerners will look into this, but that is only a small percent, and they ditch this place as fast as they clicked. There are a million other forums out there which are more suited.

Ex-BKs, why bother come on this forum, better to spend the time having a beer in a pub, there you don't have anything associated with BKs at all. And that's where I am off too now. I think I will stay there.

john morgan

ex-BK

  • Posts: 397
  • Joined: 06 Oct 2007

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

Sometimes the formulator of a question is too smart for their own good.

I have read elsewhere that it is a spiritual law that you cannot accept money for spiritual instruction. But you can charge for lessons in concentration. This to me rings true.

The theory is that if we had no outstanding karma our lives would be superb. Our lives are not superb, my life at any rate. Many just say "what goes around comes around" it is a vague notion that whatever you do comes back to you.

When I start diving deeply into my own self and marshalling the resources to completely change the pattern of my life my considerations of karma seem to me to make a lot of sense. To remove the negative and to bring in the positive, to find what doesn't work and what does - what is wrong with that?

No one takes a map of London with them when they are exploring Scotland, similarly if one is not making effort to improve ones life then a book about karma in your pocket may be mere dead weight and best left at home. Even if you are improving your life learning about karma may be unnecessary.

Fortunately for me, this forum is the tip of the iceberg. Here we are not necessarily actively engaged in improving our lives as the BK and many other people are, what we are often doing is seeking to mitigate the effect of our interactions with the BK in order to resume actively creating a better life for ourselves and those we come in contact with. It is a valuable space for me and for many others.

I'd like to master Gyan in the right way because it is very useful and I love helping people even though I think it true that you cannot help others but you can help others to help themselves. Some here are historians documenting the BK movement. Others have very genuine grievances and yet others have petty ones. It is obvious that the whiter than white history of the BK is nonsense. It is the story of people learning to improve themselves and it can be the messiest and the bloodiest place on the planet. It is a battleground with lost limbs, pierced hearts, severed heads and the like. Whether it bears a resemblance to the Mahabharat War of old is another train of thought that you can pick up or leave at will.

Beam me up Scottie ;). (I much prefer Babylon 5) ...
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10408
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

bansy wrote:If everything is bo****ks, then what is this forum about ?

Helping 'exiting BKs', and the friends and family of BKs, whose lives are being thrown into turmoil, abuse or exploited.

I suppose 'consistency' is a virtue and I should be content with such praise ... but, to be honest bansy, you've largely missed - or not been able grasp the point ... as I expect most BKs will do too.

I have never stated, nor is my end position, "there is no such thing as karma" or "karma is bollocks".

    Where I have persistently stuck at is ... "OK, if you believe it and invest your life into it ... explain it."
Explain the mechanisms, explain the limitations, explain the medium, explain the "mind/matter relationship" through which it works. No one in 15 pages has come anywhere near being able to do so. No one really knows. Few to none have even made a start. Despite 70 years of "God" (allegedly) personally teaching humanity via his World Spiritual University we are still in the dark ages and all that "karma" amounts to is mind control, milieu control and superstition.

In truth, all I am doing is what a good BK Raja Yoga teacher or any other halfway intelligent and responsible person ought to be doing; dispelling their own superstition and illusion ... and helping others dispel theirs.

And, as for the rant ... name all the BKs that have supposedly been banned. I think there was one, Luis "The bombs have been made and they will be used" Riveros, and that was it.
User avatar

cypress

friends or family of a BK

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: 07 Jan 2009

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

I don’t really “believe in” Karma. Yes, sometimes I have done something good, and that good created a “ripple effect” that returned to me in a surprising way. But if you try to do good so that you will get good in return, doesn’t that kind of defeat the inner value of doing the good. You have still done good and the impact of that good is felt in this physical world. But if you have only done good to receive something for yourself, what is the impact of that on your interior self?

I find something very troubling and self-centered about the idea of doing good so you can have a better life next time around, or so you can have a higher station in a hierarchical heaven. (I find something very troubling about hierarchy, whether on earth or elsewhere). And there is something perverse about the idea that giving a lot of money to a religious or cult organization, to support their particular view of things, will guarantee you a higher place in their version of heaven.

What about the people who do not have money to give? Are they doomed to a lower place on the heavenly, as well as worldly scale? I feel that doing good is important, because there is so much need for good to be done in this society we humans have created. That, in itself, is more than enough reason to do good.

Conversely, I find something deeply troubling about the idea that bad things happen in one’s life because of something that soul did in a previous life. Did all the children born to abject poverty who die of starvation, curable disease etc., all those wounded and killed in wars etc. etc. do something terrible in their past lives, while George Bush etc. did very good things in their last life to be accorded so much power and privilege in this one?

For me, I look to the possible causes in this world, and hence ways to shift and change the situation for the better in this world (from the causes of war and poverty to the causes when one’s personal life seems to bring only sorrow) – which leads me back to the many opportunities we have to do good in this society we humans have created.

john morgan

ex-BK

  • Posts: 397
  • Joined: 06 Oct 2007

Re: Karma

Post04 Mar 2009

Dear Cypress,

You are a very nice person.

I like your last post very much and can relate to it in so many ways.

The ability to do is the reward - I give not one jot for anything beyond that. If I can see but not do then that is my karma. If I can see I have the faith that it can only be a matter of time and effort before I can do, why else could I see?

John
PreviousNext

Return to Commonroom