Karma

Karma.

Can someone explain why some people are born into a rich family and another is born into a poor family?
Why someone is born with a handicap and whilst another is born as a fit athlete?
Why someone is mentally disabled, and another is a genius?

The list goes on. Why someone gets the Murli and another doesn't etc etc?

Why worry, about karma, and everything else? ... It won't "help" anyway ... everything is going to be exactly the same ... Can any one explain to me why this is not making any sense to me?

Jannisder.

Why don't you ask this in the PBK section?

In brief PBKs claim that the BK knowledge is only basic and that Shiva incarnates into their leader Virendra Dev Dixit to reveal the Advanced Knowledge and clarify the meaning of the basic knowledge.

You won't get an answer from BKs, it is not available in their knowledge. Murli stopped after 1969 and only Murli copies 1965 - 1969 are available for BKs, even though they claim Shiva descended and gave knowledge from 1937.

Excuse me if I am a bit confused. It appears to be one of the many tools used to remove free thinking, conscience, responsibility for behaviour and dare I say honourablity in what we do.

"Ah, yes ... you feel confused. I see. And do you get depressed sometimes ... good, good ... do you feel peaceless at times too? Ah, that is your karma. What you need is a course in meditation. You are right, you are confused and your Shudra mind is impure. So let us teach you how to purify it and burn away the sins ... "

The question I always ask is not "what is karma?" but "where is karma?" Every one knows the word and mumbles it when things go bad. But where is and how does it act upon matter to, allegedly, make things happen?

Did I miss the in depth discussion of the mechanics of karma and their relationship to Newtonian physics? Are there any scientific papers written, all these year later?

I think you are both pointing at a core technique within the BK armory ... keep the students head spinning in insecure, conclusionless confusions. Now this may not be a bad thing, it may be the spin drier the human monkey needs to loosen his or her nuts so that he or she can fall apart to be re-built again. To break the identity of the clutching, grasping ego from which all vices exude. I guess it just depends in whose image one is being rebuilt. Most BKs give up on this one after the first few months as they get no more than childish and obsure answers that are thought to pass for pearls of wisdom from the lips of the Godly angels. They just grunt "spin The Cycle" as if they know what it means to each other.

Probability clouds!?! How can we sell that! Who wants to be a cold, humid, directionless droplet when they can be an immortal Golden Aged deity? Anyway, forget the esoteric stuff ... you have been here long enough ... go out and convince some VIPs to come and join the forum to make us look more important.

Why worry, about karma, and everything else? ... Can any one explain to me why this is not making any sense to me? Without telling me that "people don't know anything ..." (DJ). Or because I am Maya, or LOKIK, non BK ... I don't understand The Knowledge. BTW, after the 7 day course, am I "allowed" to hear/read/have a copy of the Murli?

Well, I am going to attempt to answer your very good question from my understanding of Gyan, jannisder. Karma, to me, means that I am constantly creating my world. Through the thoughts, feelings, behaviour, actions etc that I express, I am creating the responses of others towards me and also situations that come in front of me. The main way that I have experienced this is that my beliefs manifest themselves in things that happen to me. ie if I belief I am bad, unworthy and should be treated like crap, then I will tend to find that mirrored. In the same way, if I love myself, others will manifest the same.

Now then; this thought is not just to be found in the BKs! Look at the work of a number of self help authors, the Louise Hays, Dr Phils, Gaye Hendricks of this world and you will find the same thoughts; hence the New Age love of the Affirmation, to create new belief systems. The point at which BK philosophy diverges from this is in the joining of this with the continuation of karma over several lifetimes.

I, personally, do not find it helpful to use the Law of Karma as a stick to beat myself with; rather as seeing; OK, I chose this, now I know I deserve better than this; I can settle this by continuing to have love and acceptance of myself and working through the situation with understanding. If, however, I react with anger and pain and spread this to others, my karma will then increase. Again, I look at this from a neutral position and its not a judgement of myself or others. I can see, looking at myself, that I have tended to identify with being a victim and put others in the position of being agressors. I can also see that my payback from that is that I do not have to take responsibility for my own feelings. I am a work in progress! but I've reached the point where I am OK with that.

Versus The Cycle; yes, the whole shebang will repeat identically. I have the power of choice however; I do not know what I did last time, so its still up to me to make of my life what I will; whether that is positive action or inaction, and in doing so, I create my life, both now and in the future. Again, the concept of being the creator of your own life can be found in other self-help philosophies; the only difference being that only the BKs say that it repeats. So in other words, your question of "Why worry, about karma, and everything else? ...

It won't "help" anyway ... everything is going to be exactly the same. " I would answer by saying; do not worry! It wont help! Just focus on being you; the best you that you want to be, and loving yourself and others and you will automatically create a positive future for yourself. Basically; **** happens, its our response to it which creates how we feel. I am in charge of my feelings and thoughts, not anyone else; to quote Eleanor Roosevelt, no one can make me feel bad without my permission.

I passionatly believe this; but I am aware that I often slip out of it and into the blame / shame cycle. I know however that when I have the awareness of being a creator, I have much more self respect. I also know that some heavy duty experiences in childhood left me with a "stuck" feeling, so I can empathise with those who feel that karma is a heavy thing.

I hope that made some sense jannisder, I tried to avoid BK-isms!

To answer your question about the Murli, you should be now allowed to attend morning class to hear the Murli; they do not tend to give you copies of the Sakar Murli, but you may find they have a lending library and you could borrow books of the Avyakt Murlis. They may also do evening classes where they read the Murli. I would suggest you might get more out of being with a group of fellow beginner students where a teacher could spend more time to explain the Murli points to you as they went through, though I never had that! Good luck!

Excuse me, who is Eleanor Roosevelt? That statement of hers, sounds much like what MikeGeoge writes and teaches about. It's also Gyan, not to take sorrow, free will in that, once you have achieved some sense of mind control. So who is copying who? It makes me uncomfortable to think that BKs speakers maybe just collecting points from New Age writers, philosophers, etc. to put together courses and impress other BKs who are not really allowed to read any stuff other than the Murli! Should we learn how to re-cycle stuff to make a buck?

Excuse me, who is Eleanor Roosevelt? That statement of hers, sounds much like what Mike George writes and teaches about. It's also Gyan, not to take sorrow, free will in that, once you have achieved some sense of mind control. So who is copying who? It makes me uncomfortable to think that BKs speakers maybe just collecting points from New Age writers, philosophers, etc. to put together courses and impress other BKs who are not really allowed to read any stuff other than the Murli! Should we learn how to re-cycle stuff to make a buck?

Hey; Eleanor Roosevelt ... umm wife of the late President Roosevelt sorry ... couldn't resist ... and I got the quote wrong BTW, she said "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Roosevelt

I could get you a Murli quote where BapDada says something similar, I am sure.

The reason I used refs to self help authors in my post was to show that these concepts are widely accepted in other contexts; but obviously there are major differences, which I have referred to. I guess all I can say to your last points is that I have looked at a lot of these other avenues, and while they are interesting and in some cases reinforce Gyan, nothing has cut through my crap in the laser-like way that my connection with Shiva Baba has. I have used some self help stuff in some situations; like the Hendricks Institute stuff around not resisting your emotions but breathing into them and allowing them to be. I do not find anything wrong with that; but i would find something wrong with using someone else's ideas and not referencing them.

It may be as you say that some BKs are using other stuff to put together courses. To me they would lack the power of something based on soul conscious understanding. I have seen the power of a good course for the public based on soul conscious principles and with original exercises based on Gyan, and seen the powerful experiences that souls went through. This as compared to the SML course, a lot of which is highly derivative.

Dear Yudhishtira

I listened to the Murli in evening class. Mar.08 2007 ... will you or anyone send me a copy (by PM if you prefer) see if they are the same, And the Murlis that are on the net how about them???

I have read the Avyakt already. Already noticed some opposites, let check that out but send it first so i can do my "investigation" futher.

For Amrit Vela (too early for me), i told some fellow "Sisters" that i had discovered a new very special technique ... very powerful so i don't have to get up ... they were very interested ... (a new cult is born???)

love, Jan

I listened to the Murli in evening class. Mar. 08 2007 ... will you or anyone send me a copy (by PM if you prefer) see if they are the same, And the Murlis that are on the net how about them???

Do you know for sure that the Murli read to you on Mar 08 2007 was the same one that they read in the morning? All anyone would have is what comes via the secure Murli website downloads, which will be the same as what you have in your centre. All centres now download their Murlis from the website. Do you think they are trying to change the Murli or something?

I have read the Avyakt already. Already noticed some opposites, let check that out but send it first so I can do my "investigation" futher.

What do you mean by opposites? You mean with the Sakar and Avyakt? Yeah, there are differences there; the difference of having an impure (corporeal BB) intellect butting in and his pure subtle form, hopefully letting more Shiva Baba through ...

For Amrit Vela (too early for me), I told some fellow "Sisters" that I had discovered a new very special technique ... very powerful so I don't have to get up ... they were very interested ... (a new cult is born???)

You mean BapDada hasnt been shaking your bed yet? You are lucky. I used to wake up convinced the telephone was ringing downstairs ... I don't have that experience now though . Seriously, you do not have to do anything you do not feel ready for/comfortable with although if you walk around convinced everything is already a conspiracy, doubtless it will feel like that .

I know it will be tough starting out, there's dodgy human behaviour in all the centres and seperating that from meditation experiences and Knowledge is a tall order. Sometimes I feel that in the BKs we expect souls to run before they can walk, the most useful and vital aspects are the experience of yourself as innately positive and spiritual and connection with Shiva Baba with the understanding that he/it/whatever is innately loving and accepting. If folks do not feel that, nothing else is likely to be of any use. However, I would say that most BKs arent experiencing that because of the associated judgmental systems that are widespread in the centres.

So can I ask, how do you feel now about karma and drama?

What do you mean by opposites? You mean with the Sakar and Avyakt? Yeah, there are differences there; the difference of having an impure (corporeal Brahma Baba) intellect butting in and his pure subtle form, hopefully letting more Shiva Baba through ...

Why in Avyakt Vani is Shiva not mentioned any more? Where is The Knowledge contained in Avyakt Vani that was contained in Murli?

In Avyakt Vani all I read is praise for children with Enthusiasm and Zeal and some ideas on how to have patience, not get angry etc. Where is The Knowledge of The Cycle, Trimurti, The Ladder, The Tree, Shiva etc?

Why worry, about karma, and everything else? ... It won't "help" anyway ... everything is going to be exactly the same. As I read; "Time is not linear but rather cyclical and the physical world manifests as an eternally repeating and identical 5,000 year cycle at which the end of it is destroyed and then re-created every time. Each repeating cycle is exactly the same as the previous one." Can any one explain to me why this is not making any sense to me?

Omshanti. Avyakt BapDada has addressed this issue in some of the Avyakt Vanis by using the English words 'nothing new' and 'everything new'.

Although 'nothing is new' because The Cycle of 5000 years repeats itself, but because we human beings do not remember about our past life or know our future life, 'everything is new' in this life, i.e. every moment that we are living is new.

The phrase 'nothing new' is to be applied positively in order to overcome the past mistakes/losses/moments of pain, sorrows and unhappiness.

But the phrase 'everything is new' has to be applied for all those moments which we are living or going to live. We do not know what is going to happen. So we can make or mar our present and future. This phrase can be used positively to improve our present and future.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Why in Avyakt Vani is Shiva not mentioned any more? Where is The Knowledge contained in Avyakt Vani that was contained in Murli? In Avyakt Vani all I read is praise for children with Enthusiasm and Zeal and some ideas on how to have patience, not get angry etc. Where is The Knowledge of The Cycle, Trimurti, The Ladder, The Tree, Shiva etc?

Sakar Vani is the actual class. Avyakt Vani is the Tuition class . Avyakt Vani gives more importance to the subject of Dharna.

IBHS
MITRA

Sakar Vani is the actual class. Avyakt Vani is the Tuition class . Avyakt Vani gives more importance to the subject of Dharna.

Dear Brother,

Omshanti. You say that Sakar Vani is the actual class, but you have also written elsewhere that it has to be read in the past tense. But Baba comes to give us knowledge of all the three aspects of time and not just one aspect. Since you say that Avyakt Vani gives more importance to the subject of Dharna, where would we get the actual and latest knowledge about the Trimurti, Cycle, Kalpa Tree, Ladder etc.?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Sakar Vani is the actual class. Avyakt Vani is the Tuition class. Avyakt Vani gives more importance to the subject of Dharna.

So for BKs have all actual classes ended in 1969?

I suppose World Meditation Hours/Day is in a way a practise of this, and they have asked for BKs to give their thoughts to others ... but it is not really BK Raja Yoga, is it?

I may be wrong here, so someone please write the official version. As I remember these meditations are meant to bring about the destruction of the world. I was told it was called, I think, tapasya Yoga, although this would be the BKs definition, as it is not the same in Wikipedia. They said it was sending rays of destruction from the third eye of Shankar, which would destroy the world in natural catastrophes, wars, etc.

Those of us who were worried that our meditation was contributing to bringing about the destruction of the world were told this story by the BK teacher. "I was worried myself about this and I asked Jayanti. She said that 80% of the people now living in the world have lives that are so degraded that they would be better off if the world is destroyed, so we are in fact helping them." This rather reminds me of the famous quote from the Nobel Prize winning Dr. Henry Kissinger, who said that the world would be a better place without these "Useless Eaters".

Would it not be more fitting for a "spiritual" organisation to try to help the poor and hungry people, and those who have no access to medical attention or clean water? There exists in the world enough food, energy, etc. for all if it is shared freely and with compassion. Only the will to help our fellow human family is lacking. Am I right? Is the BK solution to world poverty, hunger, and deprivation to cull the species?

Proy,

That's quite a shocking thing you are suggesting. As far as I know tapasya Yoga is for destroying the impurities within oneself.

BKs should only be giving out pure thoughts vibrations of upliftement. Did you understand what they were saying correctly?