Spiritual soul

It is a matter of the soul that is spiritual or in bodyconciousness. Spiritual Father speaks to the spiritual children. If everyone could give this knowledge then everyone would become Shiva. It is a matter of only one who is in spiritual stage and gives spiritual knowledge. All others teach various type of ignorance, or they can make others as best as they are themselves. Baba says that is the duty of mothers to distribute this knowledge.

To the ones who does not like this knowledge or oppose it I would like to present my full astonishment and a challenge that you, yourself, dare step a step forward and present more beautiful knowledge about the future and the past, about the various actors, about…about a new world, how will we be living there, how there will be peace, there will not be war. How there will be happiness there will not be sorrow etc /please see heaven-hell/.

It is a spiritual knowledge for our life, to make it spiritual, means whilst living an ordinary life to make it extraordinary. Now when I have this knowledge I have an aim, my life has sense I can see many things clearly I have my own effort to do, I have someone to adore. Baba says he loves the children with a heart. He himself is the intellect of the intellects, yes he loves The Knowledge full children, but he loves the children with a heart. Everyone has passed this subject.

To the ones who do not like this knowledge or oppose it I would like to present my full astonishment and a challenge that you, yourself, dare step a step forward and present more beautiful knowledge about the future and the past.

Do you mean a more beautiful dream? Yes, dreams are important.

Perhaps, in many cases, it is not the dream that people are "against" but the organization that is using and manipulating the dream for its own end. How do we "dream" away those who think they have a monopoly on God?

I believe there are many things about such beliefs that are not beautiful at all, in fact there are in my opinion very unpleasant aspects about your belief of the past and the present.

1. to be a special chosen one, is an ugly thing, there are many beautiful people in the world who like to have sex and eat flesh. They are no less than a BK or PBK in my eyes and to think of them as shudras and yourself as Brahmin is an ugly thing.
2. to have a heaven where there is only dictatorship and heirachy I feel is ugly.
3. to will on the slaughter of millions of 'mosquito quality' people just to get them out of the way so you can sit on your golden throne, doesn't fill me with beauty either.

Well, there's a few to be going on with .

Baba says that is the duty of mothers to distribute this knowledge.

The distribution of knowledge can take place in many ways. Not by needing to know The Knowledge but to be the embodiment of knowledge (and love, peace, virtues, etc).

Embodiment. To be the flower that attracts the bee, without the awareness you are a flower. A lotus sits in muddy waters, but the lotus does not need to know that.

Dear Mr. Green,
The beauty lies in the vision one has towards others. Until this beauty is not revealed, it is not him. If all people keep a corner in their heart for him, whatever knowledge or perception of him they may have, so he should have touched their hearts too. What is hierarchy and dictatorship is only visible in hell. Until there are these, hell is there. Those who make sex and eat flesh are also his children, it does not mean what they do is right. What he teaches is not wrong, if one uses this knowledge to give sorrow to others he is Ravan. There is benefit in following Shrimat, that’s why his name is Shiva. But various children are there. Unification is not possible. Unification in vision and perception that we are equal souls is possible and that is what we try to achieve, is it not so.

In Golden Age there is one familly, the king feells like a Father, why should be there a dictatorship. Everyone perceives himself and others as master self sovereign, no one tries to control others. Everyone is happy with himself. Baba says The Ladder to progress is to think of the self.

Why is he said the one to remove the sorrow? Because he has no sorrow himself. Those who give sorrow to others they are the ugly ones. He comes to make even them beautiful. no one is chosen if there is his equal vision. He says he gives equally, we take numberwise. Like in school. The teacher teaches the same study and students are various kinds. We are the ones to choose ourselves as chosen ones, and this is not to have a low vision for others.

Believe me, my friend, in the history there are heroes, they take an initiative to make the world better why should someone have a low vision for them. We like to be them. If we become others will become too, because we make others only the same as ourselves. I mean we try to have an equal beneficial vision for everyone, whether they give happiness or sorrow, whether they are ugly or beautiful we try to have a beautiful vision. The Brother has called it a dream, or call it pink glasses. The world is transformed through vision. We see no sorrow and sorrow is no more. The chosen ones are revealed automatically, they don’t impose themselves or hold their head high for others. They have chosen a beautiful task, not out of desire for fame, but out of desire for good for themselves and others. And they are the courageous ones. Those who accept sorrow, ugliness, who change their view each time they meet something bad, the ones who lose faith, lose heart, lose his belief, sells his dream, of what use are they. He says he loves children with a true heart. They will definetely become sorrowfull at the last, but they will be powerfull enought to stand up again and recognise themselves, him, others. If he is the Father definitely there will be his special beloved children, not because they have thought themselves to be, but because of what they are and what they do. Ego is a big problem in the West, and we are lost in who we are. It is those who eat the flesh of bodyconciousness that give sorrow to others, they don’t like to lose this bad habit and become beautiful themselves and make others beautiful. Why should we have low vision for them?

When this Supreme Soul comes he comes exactly to make this task. To break the hierarchy that is created by human beings. Then there is one Father and we are all children, where is the hierarchy. Those who have taken sorrow from the BK organisation, should not give it back as sorrow. The whole world is sorrowfull, they are not to blame. They do their best. But the creator of heaven is only one. And it is true that this study is not for everyone and not everyone will study it. It does not makes some better than others. In this world all people are not the same. It is true. Kings are very few.

Brother ex-l
Dreams come true. And it is good to dream, and it is good for those who don’t listen to the cry of the materialists that your dream is a poor dream and will never come true. They may stay silent or feel misunderstood, but they have an inner power and other have inner sorrow. They will make miracles beause they see a beautifull future to build and fly ahead for this with zeal and enthusiasm. Others will put obstacles to their path, but they will gain more power from these obstacles. These are the dreamers that has made the world as it is. Now a detached knowledgfull soul has come, he will not even swing in a dream. He will create exactly what he says.

Hi Andrey,

hang on you are changing your story now you said:

"To the ones who does not like this knowledge or oppose it I would like to present my full astonishment and a challenge that you, yourself, dare step a step forward and present more beautiful knowledge about the future and the past, about the various actors, about ... about a new world, how will we be living there, how there will be peace, there will not be war. How there will be happiness there will not be sorrow etc /please see heaven-hell/."

You did not say the beauty was in the vision, that is new.

I was commenting on your challenge regarding the beauty of this knowledge, to me it is not beautiful and I gave 3 examples of this to meet your challenge.

Dear Mr. Green,

But the challenge was not to give points of not liking, but to give better points. It is very easy and many Brothers do that. ex-l Brother, shivsena Bhai I have never seen a positive remark out of them. One speaks only about the shortcomings of the BKWSU, other speaks only about the shortcomings of the Advance Party. Challenge is ... you say this is bad ... OK ... be it bad ... you say something good /better/.

It is not our task to fight fire with fire. Yes, there is one Father to straighten up children with “cutting iron with iron” and “killing poison with poison”, but we don’t do the same. What will be the benefit in reveling shortcomings? We are seekers of pearls to imbibe. We give blessings to all and receive blessings from all. The Father’s qualities are different and the qualities of the deities are different.

For example you have been talking about suicidal tendencies and I understand why. We all have a desire to take our life in our own hands, even if we would have to make the body to suffer but we desire to take our own death into our own control. Even hatha yogis practice control over the body, but it is just difficult way that brings no result, because the method is spiritual and not phisical. It is exactly this that we now study - to die, whilst alive, to commit a sweet suicide, but without any harm to the body, we learn to leave the body in happiness, easily by ones own will, is this beautiful or not, why not practice considering oneself a soul separate from the body, why not forget the whole world including the body, is there any other way to get better, is there any other method to become well. This is beatifull that this knowledge makes us forget the whole world and our own body and to fly high and not return to this world of sorrow.

Peace will not be established outside or in any superficial manner, it will be established inside and spread in the world. And everybody likes peace, but some will increase this peace and ultimately will establish peace in the world and some will increase the peacelessness. Who are the chosen ones when peace is good for all and who are the chosen ones when peacelessness is bad for all?

Otherwise to kill the body is easy, it does not require any practice, yes, courage is required, but it is the biggest sin of all. Why? Because we are the closest to ourselves. Baba has said for instance how will be the punishment if you kill a stranger or you kill your mother. So who is the closest to yourself? We are our own friend or enemy. And something more, I believe problems won’t leave you if you commit a suicide but they accompany you, so ... we are used to play weak, but one cannot escape problems…one has to become powerful over problems.

And again about the points. Do you remember school? Were there all different students or not? Baba does not choose, He comes and says, my children do this and this and are like this and don’t do that and that and are not like that. We ourselves put ourselves here or there.

The challenge was given in a rhetorical way because of the point that one cannot challenge these. It is like denying reality.

I was thinking that the soul does not belong to this world of matter, it is spiritual, different. It comes in matter and assumes it and controls it. Then later it forgets and everything goes wrong.

ex-l Brother, shivsena Bhai I have never seen a positive remark out of them. One speaks only about the shortcomings of the BKWSU, other speaks only about the shortcomings of the Advance Party. Challege is ... you say this is bad ... OK ... be it bad ... you say something good

How can you come out with this tripe?

ex-l and Sivasena, speak their minds and are interested in the reality of the situation, not the PR or Honeymoon Period goofyness. This is about Godly knowledge, is it not?

Is this serious? ... If yes, then let's get to the truth. Why pretend everything is sweet and rosy, when it is not?

ex-l Brother, shivsena Bhai I have never seen a positive remark out of them. One speaks only about the shortcomings of the BKWSU, other speaks only about the shortcomings of the Advance Party. Challege is ... you say this is bad ... OK ... be it bad ... you say something good (better).

Dear Andrey Bhai,
Omshanti. I agree with John Bhai in his views about Bro. ex-l and Shivsena Bhai. One should be ready to accept criticism in the same way as praises. It is true that we BKs/PBKs have not achieved perfection as individuals or as a family. There are many shortcomings in our life; and The Knowledge (whether basic or advance) has not been proved to the world (both Brahmin and outside world) completely yet. So, until these things get sorted out, we have to accept the criticisms gracefully and try to continue the basic human values and relationships despite the differences of opinion.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Dear Brother,
Negativity is not good. BapDada has said that a sign of love is to not tolerate weaknesses of others. We should first not tolerate weaknesses in ourselves. If you are all my Brothers, why should i like to see anyone with negativity. Pointing out negativity is not bad either, but one has to have the power to change it from negativity into poisitivity.

The situation is far from rosy, and I am far from being perfect, but i would not like to narrow my standards or stop my way. We should achieve the goal. If this is my familly why should it not be perfect. If these are my Brothers, why should we continue to quarrel amongst ourselves.

Is this about Godly knowledge? Many don't think it is Godly knowledge. The moment one accepts it is Godly knowledge - then where else will he try to find the truth? I am not at all aware of the PR affair. One sees only what one is interested in. Yes, we should achieve a constant honeymoon.

Shivsena Bhai and ex-l Bhai are dear Brothers to me. If we are to meet in person i believe we'll be happy. This forum is also kind of meeting and we should aim to make it meeting of hearts, but so far we have not met in our ideas so how can there be discussion. I have seen only once two Brothers talking. It was so strange to me, they were discussing but were not quarelling ... it is not bad, it was very good.

What I have been suggesting has been coming only from a point of view, that is OK ... Everyone is different, it is not bad. All cannot have the same ideas but lets unite over one fair idea. It is not nessesary that it is this Godly knowledge. OK, let it be only on the point of the soul or any other point one finds good. Even if it is something else. OK, let us reach a point of agreement. We can be different but cannot we move side by side towards something we all have accepted and believe in. It should be something positive. I was just proposing such points and asking the one who disagrees to propose his own point because i believe this knowledge has this power. Is it that we are to discuss it again and again and nothing to come out of it. If it comes from God, then God is God to all. If we are souls we are Brothers. Anything else that goes against this does not go in good direction. We can very well disagree even on small matters. We are very used to it. Now let's do something new.

The point was that it is just easy to say "no" to something. We all have negativity in us. It does not mean we should say "yes" to everything. Of course we use our intellect to decide. But before we say "no", we have to know "why". We say this is not God, why. What is God. Do we know? Then why it shold not be this? We are not souls. Then what are we? Like this we can reach a point where everyone will say yes, this is it.

And i believe it starts from everyone that he accepts the other one. Yes, i have been showing my shortcomings, trying to impose my own ideas. Naturally there is a distance created and a reaction of rejection. But these are not ideas, i have invented myself. That's why there is even more power to present them. Anyone can do it. And i have made many mistakes (factual, tactical etc.) in the presentation. I learn. And a soul in a male body will never be as convincing in presenting this knowledge because everyone knows ... men are all vicious. Although we can try to not agree, the soul knows, men always have some hidden thought in the back-yard. So there comes naturally a one arm distance for safety, means in the intellect cautiousness when will the hidden motive comes up.

andrey, my issues of suicide feelings are deeply personal and not at all something you understand. You might have empathy but it is very naive and insensitive of you to try and explain it in such ways ... I am not going to take the bait on that one

It is ludicrous what you are saying. So just because i don't have my own made up version of events to come in the future, I have to accept that yours is beautiful because you think it to be so.

In fact, I give up ... I hope your beautiful world fits where the sun don't shine.

Dear Brother Mr. Green,
Please, excuse me for being tact less and interfering in your personal story. Of course these things are very personal but just because you have shared, and i was thinking about it, i also shared my thoughts out of feeling of empathy as you say, and with the intention that if one intelectualizes any issue it becomes less powerful. You have had the courage to open and share your experiences and i can say we all pass through these, there is no problem.

I have embraced The Knowledge because i have nothing else to embrace and have done it desperately. Beliefs don't become strong in one go but if we build certain beliefs, some system, we easily manage life because i don't at all like to pass through depressions or to be OK now and not OK the next moment. That's why i believe with practice our stage can improve. The issue is whether beliefs are right or wrong where each one uses his intellect to judge.

The Knowledge about the "rivers of blood" etc. ... it is firstly in an unlimited sense, rivers of blood are flowing right now, blood of our thoughts. Two kind of blood is there pure and impure, both flow. There is subtle war already, and i especially like The Knowledge because it does not hide these things. That's why it opens our eyes. But along with it, it gives methods how to walk ahead to get by in these circumstances. It is not about whether someone teaches these or not. It is that no matter what happens we should be able to face it. We have to be so strong.

We choose how to live our life - consciously or unconsciously. We can always hide like the ostrich bird or deny or we can also change reality. Of course, there is great tact in these like - how does a doctor tell a parent about a dead child? One should not cause the parent to cry or faint. And for me the one who give this knowledge has very great tact in giving it and the one who relates it later (like me) causes it to become poison. Otherwise, it is like the mind starts to be happy. And it is about that we should not cry now. We should become grown up, sensible and mature, and forsee what should be done.

Fair enough Andrey, you seem like a decent sort and I accept what you say about embracing this knowledge in an almost desperate way. I have been there myself, so I know what you mean, and in all sincerity I wish you all the best with it.

Dear Brother,

What attracted me in the advanced knowledge, as well, was that we should give it (and it is for) exactly those who were in BK and got dissapointed and left and that it says it is for the unhappy ones ... and i say, yes, it is for me.

I have never liked to act like teacher or salesperson because it is such an item, very precious, very delicate, how can i not spoil it? So my advice is always for people to study themselves from Baba. Really, he does not teach at all badly and because i like it so much more to study and learn. But we should do both i guess. He can be even strict but one sees there is benefit hidden. And it is said that for some this knowledge is sweet, for some very hard. For me it is very sweet. It just fills me up. But it is not enough. Knowledge is not enought. We can have a direct relationship where one can clearly see one's own ego, attachments, etc. All shortcomings emerge in front of him. And if we are agreable enough we can very easily remove them like moving away objects on a table. Sometimes we may have to use pincers but there is where one can find enjoyment; improving oneself. We are not perfect and we should not be at the moment but we should try being perfect. Who knows, someday maybe we will be.

You have said about yourself that you are the most imperfect one, so i suggest we compete in this. Baba has spoken about this community of the ones without virtue. He speaks about the monkeys with all the vices. So from wherever one looks at it, this knowlegde seems exactly for me. But agree sometimes we even think of ourselves as virtuous. So it is just a matter of constancy. BapDada - when he asks his questions he asks - are you this ... then ... are you always like this, or only sometimes?

And you have said many times that you wish me happiness in this and i don't know where else can i find. In this life (spiritual ... of effort... etc) as in any other we have ups and downs. Sometimes happiness, sometimes sorrow, sometimes victory, sometimes defeat. But if we see The Knowledge it is itself perfect, it says to see victory in victory and victory in defeat etc. The standard is very high and if we can live it, we become a hero. So, I wish you become a hero.

And for me the one who give this knowledge has very great tact in giving it and the one who relates it later (like me) causes it to become poison.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.