Mediumship and the Purification of Wombs within the BKWSU

October 1983 - Dying Didi needs a womb "purified" ...

Manohar Didi used to be number two in the BKWSU along with Dadi Kumarka. If it is true that 90% of BKs leave after 5 years or so, then most of them will not know of her and in what esteem she was held and the circumstances of her death and afterwards. She would not have done a Self Management Leadership course in the whole of her life but was considered "One of the 8", the 8 top souls, as they used to speculate in those days. Although she had been sick for a while and in a coma, it was a huge shock to the Sisters when she died. All of the stillness and detachment, and "going to eat halva"* one is expected of as a BK Brahmin junior went out of the window for the Seniors and was replaced with tears, quivering lips, and hugging and over emotional speeches.

I thought this quote was a timely reminder for the neo-BKs because they will be facing two re-runs in the next short while, with Janki and Prakashmani. It raises a few question about the unspoken, unwritten parts of the BK religion that remain distinctly Hindu. Especially, the stuff of Didi's soul coming back after death with a message and being channelled by the BKWSU's medium. This used to be common place amongst Hindu death rituals. Of course, part of the BK myth is established when Didi's soul comes back and tells everyone that while "apparently" in a coma state, she had actually been in trance, in "total" God-consciousness, enjoying the fulfillment of all her deep spiritual efforts. Naturally. Such a high ranking original gem could not merely become sick and die.

The article relies heavily on versions from Denise Lawrence, an original and highly respected Western BK who hightailed it out to India to be on the spot to "share in the benefit" of the full on experience of a BK State burial. No doubt of her attachment for, sorry "connection with", the dead Sister. Not all BKs are treated like this when they die ... presumably in case they come back and tell folks it all ain't true ... and not all BKs would have been allowed the privileges Denise was allowed. Rank and privilege are something unspoken but very existent within BK circles.

I am as interested by the color of her language that is very un-BK, e.g. "thousands of prayerful devotees", she means BKs, as I am at the entire nature of the ceremony. *In the Murlis it says, or said in case they edit it out now, "when somebody dies, just eat halva", which means be happy, have a treat. A BK should be soul conscious and the leaving of the body/death is no big thing. As with most things within the BKWSU, when push comes to shove, it all goes out the window.

• From a Gyani point of view, where is the precedent for "the purification of wombs" within the BKWSU. It is stated that BK Raja Yogis meditating for her when she was sick "purified the womb" that her soul was about to enter 13 days later?

I suppose purify because the thought that two young people had been "using the sword of lust", and enjoying it, to make a baby was so impure that the BKWSU hierarchy found it hard to stomach "their" Didi entering into such a "jail of a womb", to quote the Murlis.

• From a Gyani point of view, where is the precedent for such "love of the corpse", and rememberance of another human being and not God, as to afford all the effort and expense of a State-like funeral and all that emotion? It would seem to go against all of the teachings.

• Now for the interesting stuff; if Didi died in 1983 and went straight into a new body, that would make her 22 years old now. Where is she and what is she up to? She has been pretty much written out and forgotten about.

In those days, the BKWSU in the West used to speak in hushed tone of "The Advanced Party", which was I believe entirely different from the PBKs, which they only mentioned in even more hushed tones as "The Shankar Party". The Advanced Party was thought to be the souls that would go ahead to physically create The Golden Age, a mix of re-incarnated BKs like Didi guiding a load of scientists, and presumably builders and joiners, that would make sweep up the mess the Civil War in India left, knock up a few Golden Palaces with lights on, then the builders and scientist would leave. It was all very sketchy but it was thought that the do-ers would not necessarily stick around for the actually paradisical party.

Often young "go ahead fast" Western BKs would be thought to be re-incarnated BKs come back to join the family and be part of the Advanced Party. Their enthusiasm a sign that they had done BK in their past life as an Indian. You have to wonder what all this says sub-consciously to the growing or ambitious BK.

• Do the BKs still teach about The Advanced Party and new BKs in such a manner? Or are they just "devotees" ... and management training consultants?

Beloved "Didi," Sivabhaktar and Co-Head of Brahma Kumaris, Passes In Bombay
At age 73, the dearly revered co-head of the renowned international Brahma Kumari World Spiritual University, Didi Manmohini, left her body on July 28, 1983, after a month in a coma in Bombay, where unsuccessful attempts had been made to remove a brain tumor. Her life had been a model of deep personal communion with and selfless service to Lord Shiva - or "Shiv Baba" (Father Shiva) - as the Sisters endear themselves to Him.

Immediately, her body was transported by ambulance to the Brahma Kumari international headquarters majestically perched atop Mt. Abu, in Rajasthan state. Undistracted by torrential monsoon rains, thousands of prayerful devotees and respectful townspeople thronged the car showering it with flowers as it passed through the dozens of small village on the way to Mt. Abu.

Sister Denise, Director of the San Francisco Center, flew right away to Mt. Abu, and shared this very intimate account of the traditional 13-day period of sacred ritual and vigil which honored Didi: "Large piles of red rose petals covered her - offered by nearly 1,500 devotees who managed the difficult ascent up Mt. Abu, braving the driving rains. After two days, we put her on a wooden litter and carried her through the city of Mt. Abu, pinnacled high above the flat plains of Rajasthan far below. Ghee, sandalwood and other substances were applied to her body. She was placed on the wood pyre and cremated.

Soon afterward, messages began to come from Didi through one of previous month, while apparently in a coma state, had been in trance, in total God-consciousness, enjoying the fulfillment of all her deep spiritual sadhanas. Didi shared detailed accounts of everything that was transpiring in the so-called "transition experience.' One message said that the sincere and deep meditations performed by so many of the Brahma Kumaris worldwide during this time had purified the womb that Didi would enter for her next birth on the 13th day. On that 13th day, rather than just deliver a massage through the medium, she came fully into the body. I was there and saw this. She did not speak verbally, just through the eyes. Throughout this 13-day period there was no grief, but waves of love and shakti."

The Brahma Kumari organization began in 1937. One day in 1936, after many sudden spiritual awakenings, Dada Lekh Raj - by profession a wealthy jeweler - was pulled into a deep state of meditation. He felt someone enter into his body. "There was great power, a great light. The room vibrated with energy. Taking over his physical senses it started to speak: "I am the Blissful Self, I am Shiva, I am Shiva/I am the Knowledgeable Self, I am Shiva, I am Shiva/I am the Luminous Self, I am Shiva."

He soon afterward left his business and surrendered himself to God's work, developing over the ensuing years the Brahma Kumari organization, today expanded into over 800 centers in 52 countries. Their teachings include emphasis on Raja Yoga, worship of the personal aspect of the Deity, purity, service to humanity and celibacy for the Sisters and Brothers. The University is presently administered almost exclusively by women, as "the words of God stated that women were now to perform the special role as His divine instruments for world change...with their qualities of surrender, mercy and wisdom.

"thousands of prayerful devotees", she means BKs,

Just want to add a statement, on a slightly off-BK topic lateral issue (hope you don't mind ex-l), that when the Pope died earlier this year, many hundreds of millions of people around the world were praying/meditating for him, with massive live media coverage. Even within the BK were in awe of the event, the Pope was also considered to be such a great soul to be able to touch so many hearts. So a soul that does not go through 84 births can still be great.

Anyway back to the thread....

I was in Madubhan when Dadi Chandramani died. It certainly was a big event. She was also taken to Abu and her body displayed in the history hall, where 24 hour bhattis were held.

Janki Dadi cried openly a few times on stage at this time and she was mocked for doing so in a kind way by the other Dadis, attachment and the like.

But it was one of the odd times that I actually felt able to relate to her as she wasn't pretending to be not human for a change, I had a strong urge to find and give her a white lily ... imagine how she would have barked at me if I had of!!!!!!!!!!!!! (those who know her well will know what I mean!).

Sorry to go so off topic.

I don't know the magnitude of above the event. I was a BK when Jagadish Bhai ( I was in awe of him!) demised. I guess more than 10,000 BKs gathered for the burial ceremony. And many noted VIPs including the Chief Minister of Rajasthan attended the event and there were special Bhog and Bhatti. And Gulzar Dadi went on trance (as expected) to get message from Baba and to everybody's surprise Jagadish Bhai was with Baba. It was a very long chat/message (I guess I have a copy).

Excerpts( in my words):

Dadi: Why did the soul suffer before departing?
Baba: He had a wish that he did not want to meet Baba as Dharamraj. So he had to settle the account.

(Baba has told in a Vani that 3 souls wouldnt be coming to the Dharamraj's court)

Later Dadi asked about any unfulfilled wishes.

Jagadish Bhai told that he wanted to help one or two people in purusharth and help them become Bap Samaan.
Jagadish Bhai also expressed his wish to create the world's 8th wonder (on the banks of River Yamuna, near Sonipet I guess)
And Baba told that
- now he is free to fulfill his desires of going to America and other places
- Jagadish has special Avyakt service to be performed along with Baba, he will be serving towards Prathyakshatha (this was Jagadish's favourite always)

Baba was praising Jagadish Bhai a lot.

Hmmm ... If he had taken birth he should be around 5 years now. Do the Dadis or trance messengers communicate with those souls who have departed?


I am not completely off-topic .

Dear Worldpeace.

Very interesting snippet of information.

If you find the full copy of the trance message will you be able to upload into the upload/download section of the website?
Or if it's not too long post it on the forum?

... off topic.

hmmn ... no. Definitely on topic. It all helps build a bigger picture of what is going on. So Jagdish did not get womb service?

Its good also that all those straight laced Western, psycho-revisionists within the BK see, and the world is shown, how much voodoo exists within the BKWSU.

Yes, for all they have (and power over others is worth much more than wealth, although I hear she has a little bit tucked away) Janki is as trapped by her role as the rest of us it seems. To have seen her 'expressing emotions', 'having attachment' and 'being human', my goodness ...

So what is the Shrimat on BK State Funerals? Who gets to decide who gets what, or is it just The Kirpalani Klan's decision and they do what they want? Its confusing, they say one thing, they do another ... they make their own myth and folks eat it. Are other BKs meant to occupy super-star status in our minds? And this direction of thought to other BK, mothers wombs, ritual, voices from beyond the grave ... is it Gyani or it is just anotehr religion?

I can imagine the first few funerals were a big buzz because they did not expect them to happen. They will have a field day over the two Dadis ... and it will be soooo good for service. But then after, it will become a bit of a production line, although a bit of a holiday from the dreary ritual of morning class and Amrit Vela. It strikes me it sounds like the BK Family is a little in love with itself and its own importance ... and position is all about connections, connections.

Yes, please open the conversation out to other deaths in the family and we can have the topic name changed. What about when young Western BKs die, do they get the chance to be channelled etc or are their dreams and opinions not worth much? I am not sure ... how could they tell it was Didi "through the eyes" and are the messages not so vague and platitudinous as to be from anywhere?

(To be honest, I am still not sure that they people 'did' anything particularly important. I still think they just sat and talked about things. They lucked out, right place right time with Lekhraj, but it has all been about sustaining the myth since then. I mean, how much of Jagdish's work have your read!?!).

Even within the BK were in awe of the event, the Pope was also considered to be such a great soul to be able to touch so many hearts.

... and have good PR, access to media and climb or be propelled into the dominant positions that already exist within individual's mind and society. The same positions the BKs are aiming for.

From the BKWSU point of view, the last Pope was thought to be the Christ soul. There was a lot of affectionate speculation about him, I think because Jayanti and Janki once got to shake his hand and have their picture taken with him. They thought the World would end and he was the last Pope and so he had to be the Christ. It did not and he was not. Jesus would have been a second grade BK Brahmin that only made it into the Silver Age.

I am a bit skeptical that public prominence equates to internal greatestness.

So what is the Shrimat on BK State Funerals?

Omshanti. You might remember that I had quoted a Murli point wherein Baba has said that one should be prepared to wear clothes with 108 patches. When He is telling that we need not decorate the living body, then why would he allow any fanfare or wastage of precious Yagya money on Royal Funerals for senior BKs/Dadis? Even while Brahma Baba was alive he used to avoid being greeted with bouquets because ShivBaba discouraged it in the Murlis. But I am sure no senior 'late BK' would have missed loads of flowers, garlands and bouquets at the time of the last rites of his body.

I remember having attended the funeral of Didi Manmohini in 1983 at Mt. Abu. A lot of costly sandalwood was used for the cremation. And just don't ask about the amount they might have/might be spending on flowers. A lot of time has passed since then. I don't know how much more fanfare is involved in BK funeral now a days.

I don't think Baba has given any specific Shrimat on BK State funerals, because nobody had imagined losing their own body in this Confluence Age before the mass destruction, leave alone the death of Brahma Baba or Mama. I have a Sakar Murli point which removes all the possibilities of the necessity for last rites for ShivBaba.

"Father has come and will depart. It cannot be said that he is dead. For e.g. it would be said for Shivanand that he left his body; then they perform the last rites. When this Father departs then there will not be any necessity to perform his last rites, (funeral) ceremony etc. One does not even know about his arrival. There is no question of performing the last rites at all. Last rites are performed for all other human beings. Last rites cannot be performed for Father. He does not have a physical body at all. All the human beings get destroyed after being crushed like the mustard seeds.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 04.10.05, page 2 published by BKs and narrated by Shivbaab through Brahma Baba)

As regards leaving this physical body in this Confluence Age ShivBaba has given the following Shrimat in the Sakar Murli:

"I am soul different from this body – realizing this is as if dying while remaining alive (jeetey jee marnaa). If you die, then the world is dead for you (aap muay mar gayi duniya). You have left all your friends, relatives, etc. First we have to obtain the complete education, become entitled to the post and then depart. It is very easy to remember Father. Although someone may be ill, one should keep telling him/her also - Remember ShivBaba; then your sins will get burnt. For those who are pakka yogis, it is not good to die also, because they remain in Yoga (remembrance) and do spiritual service (roohani seva). If they die, then they would not be able to do service. By doing service they would keep elevating their post and the service of Brothers and Sisters would also take place.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 17.04.06, pg 2 published by BKs and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

I was in Madubhan when Dadi Chandramani died. It certainly was a big event. She was also taken to Abu and her body displayed in the history hall, where 24 hour bhattis were held.

Janki Dadi cried openly a few times on stage at this time and she was mocked for doing so in a kind way by the other Dadis, attachment and the like.

I respect your views expressed as an ex-BK or a non-BK, but from the point of view of a BK or a PBK, it has been directed in the Murlis that we must learn to control our emotions. Although I myself get emotional sometimes when I observe some unfortunate souls in the world who are suffering due to disease, poverty, old age, etc., but I was especially surprised to read the above lines about Dadi Janaki, who is considered to have the most stable mind in the world by the BKs. Here is a Murli point on the above subject:

"Here also you should not cry. There is a saying also - 'Amma marey toh bhi halua khao' (which literally means that even if your mother passes away, you eat halua, a sweet) ... those who cry, lose. They lose their post. You have found the highest among all husbands, who gives you the kingship of heaven. He never dies. Then where is the need to cry? Those who become cry-proof only receive the kingship. Rest would get included among the subjects." (Sakar Murli dated 30.09.06, pg.3 published by BKs and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)

Although the saying referred to in the above Murli point may seem to portray lack of sensitivity/emotions, but actually it means that we should not become sorrowful even in such adverse situations.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

A world without emotion is a world without life.

Did they uses trance medium when Dadi died? Was she said to come back like Didi did?

I am sort of amazed really because;

• no where in The Knowledge that I know of does it talk about channelling one's thoughts to purify the womb that some Senior is going to get born out of next birth.
• no where in The Knowledge that I know of does it explain the mechanics of how, when 1,000s of BK Brahmins stop having Yoga and think of a Senior BK Sister instead, that all those essentially waste thoughts are some how miraculously channelled into the stomach region of some young unknown women in some unknown location.

To analyze this from a Brahmin point of view, this means that there is something else going on within the BKWSU. An unspoken cult with its own unwritten rites and rituals, so as to say. It lays weight on what the PBKs talk about, that the IVV has been usurped by other influences. It would by any Murli be wrong to encourage BKs in the example of wasting thoughts remembering corpses.

So what is this unwritten code or religion within the religion and whose is it?

To analyze this from a lokik point of view, one would have to suggest that the 108 old virginal crones have a little bit of a problem thinking that their beloved leader was entering into the "jail of womb", as it is known, to become the fruit of a young couple's lustful and ignorant fornication. It would seem that such a thought would be so horrendous that it had to be covered up by such extensive conceptions. Thank God at least they did not claim a virgin birth for her yet ...

So what is going to happen when Janki or Kumarka dies? Surely, we are getting a little close to the birth of Krishna and the start of Golden Age for them to fit in a second birth within the Confluence? If they do, do they lose their stage, their chance to Yoga and service?

My prediction is that the BKWSU will invent a new unwritten myth ... that the Sisters will not re-incarnate but become angels or something, or even continue going on doing Avyakt service even though in the body of some little kid somewhere.

• Have the BKWSU ever gone and done soul searches such as the Tibetan Buddhists do or has any second-birth BK ever come back to the BKWSU with good evidence, proof, knowledge of their past life as a Brahmin?

It would be strange if they have not for such powerful elevated souls.

I have never heard of this womb thing to be honest.

Oh yes, there were trance messages aplenty when Dadi died, Little Mohini brought the message I believe. This still went on a lot in those days in Madubhan. At least once a week you'd get a little message, sometimes Thursday and Sunday morning. But, yes, I am sure there was a message at the time.

I remember it well, it was at Amrit Vela ... announced in a heavy dramatic voice over the tannoy. Then later that day her body arrived, packed in ice and we all trailed past it and you could throw some petals on her as is the Hindu custom. The procession down to the funeral pyre in Abu village was a sight to behold. Thousands of us trapsing through the village all in white, with some Brothers carrying ghetto blasters playing instrumental music ... quite an experience.

The worst part was it was very hot at that time and it was held mid-dayish and i was dying for a drink when i got back, but they wouldn't let me in the kitchen because i had forgotten to change my clothes ... aaahhhhhhh.

This still went on a lot in those days in Madubhan. At least once a week you'd get a little message, sometimes Thursday and Sunday morning.

What is the current state of play regarding mediumship or trance messaging?

How are the trance messengers trained up?

When I left the scene only officially appointed trance messangers would be allowed to go up there ... but I know that trance messangers go up for advice outside of the public happenings.

What I mean is they do it behind closed doors when they want specific advice; for instance when the plans for GCH were being drawn up these were oked in trance but that sort of thing wouldn't be done when all the 'students' were there.

I have been present when an unofficial trance messanger went to the Subtle Region bringing back a message at least 3 times. She was not supposed to do this, but 'students' held her in great esteem for doing so.

There is no training. Some souls claim that in deep Yoga they are just pulled like a piece of string, I am sure you are aware trance used to go on all the time in nearly every centre, and this practise was restrained.

Jayanti herself claimed to be pulled into trance many times in the past and I've even seen Dadi Janki encouraging her to go but she said she cannot do it anymore.

When I left the scene only officially appointed trance messangers would be allowed to go up there ... but I know that trance messangers go up for advice outside of the public happenings.

Jayanti herself claimed to be pulled into trance many times in the past and I've even seen Dadi Janki encouraging her to go but she said she cannot do it anymore.

The Sister in our center used to claim that she did. There was this whole big ritual on Thursday morning; showered, hair washed and loose, the deep seriousness and "the message" spoken in third party tones; "Baba said to the soul ..." meaning herself. I have no idea if it was for real and I guess that was half the problem. So,

no training in mediumship
trance happens spontaneously through ordinary Yoga practise for some
no real checking by the organization
only Sisters do it
done in private or contrary to official line
exploited by Seniors
the mediumistic gift can be lost or taken away?

Is that accurate? Was Thursday morning Bhog with trance message still a ritual at your center? What was the quality and practicality of the 'unofficial' messages you heard?

Its funny what you relate about Janki and Jayanti. I am not sure that it is true Jayanti cannot do it, may be she does not want to do it. Unfortunately, I cannot trust what the pair of them say. So different is said in public from what is said in private. It suggests to be a certain "dynamic" in their relationship and will on behalf of Jayanti.

It is also notable that despite having "the most stable mind in the world" and nigh 70 years practise that Janki cannot do it AND has certain insecurities about the future and her own decisions, that is still dependent on the angel Lekhraj Kirpalani.

That otherwise she has to consult a medium for advice ...

Of course, as you say, not all or every BK Brahmins are allowed this privilege. So what hope for them? To stumble on in the dark? Obviously, for BK Brahmins to go to ordinary non-Brahmin mediums was forbidden and "Bhakti".