Sex, Sexuality and Relationships within the BKWSU or PBKs

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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abrahma kumar

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Post16 Jan 2007

Hi Ex-I, I know that it is an old post however i am going through something at my centre which may reflect some of the sentiments you express here. I do not think I can reply at length now but I would like to but for obvious reasons I can not be too detailed so will need some time to draw out the generalities of my circumstances. But in essence i do think some of the BK gender-oriented practices can lead to problems.
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pbktrinityshiva

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Post17 Jan 2007

i think its a matter of 'potential purity'. India would certainly be far worse than the West in terms of purity now ... but ... now is the end of the story. Why do i think this? It has come down from greater heights of purity and even now in the most lowest level the traces of those pure habits remain. By pure habits i mean a stronger understanding of the value/power of purity and emphasis on maintaing that as much as possible.

The outside world has habits engrained which value impurity. Not when they are new originally but sooner or later they become like this again. Whether they are less or more pure than India now is not the issue. They have not been around as long, nor have their reached such heights.
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arjun

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Post18 Jan 2007

Omshanti. Baba says that whatever Brahmins do has an effect on the outside world. I see that happening practically. The debate on India vs West in this thread has had a phenomenal effect in international politics with the racist slurs against Indian Actress Shilpa Shetty on the British TV show 'Big Brother'. So, let us respect each other while talking about the good and bad qualities of both India and the West, particularly with reference to purity. :D :lol: :D

I was thinking of expressing my views on this topic, but sensing the mood, I thought it would be better to be silent.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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john

reforming BK

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Post18 Jan 2007

Arjun

The UK is going through a very strange period at the moment in terms of what it will or will not tolerate in terms of racism. It works both ways and I would say non-native people in the UK can get away with a lot more than native UK people. The government it appears is want to stamp out all forms of racism.

The people in the big Brother house involved in the alleged racist slurs are digging their own graves, whilst the program makers will probably be having their biggest TV viewing ratings yet.

Whilst we on the forum are merely debating Murli points and how the Brahmin Yagya reflects in the world at large.
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paulkershaw

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Post18 Jan 2007

Sex! the subject of great horror in the BK setup - not even the word is uttered and alternative words are used, so skirting the issue is certainly prevalent, but so be it, somewhere along the way we must have made a choice to be celibate in body (if not in mind!). I remember knowing that I had to leave the BK system because of sexual issues that kept rising (pun intended!) and I did, I carried the guilt around for a while and once I finally left I realised just how beautiful and wonderful sexual experiences can be (or not sometimes too but thats OK...). I feel, that for me, I did make an inner choice about my sexual attitude when I was ready to but thankfully that has all changed now. I remember going to a bar after I left and met up with someone I thought was still a BK and when I 'questioned' him, he said that the BK's are great but there's not enough sex, drugs and rock n roll there for him! It seemed pretty balanced!

So I'd suggest that we just look at the choices we were ready to make and celibRate that choice as right at the time and encourage any one still battling wiht the issue to make their own choice out of their own free-will. Took a questioning 'Sister' or two clubbing here and there - some thought it very sinful with all the bare-chested boys strutting their stuff, whilst some really enjoyed the experience ... some are still a BK and some are not ...

Thought I'd just say Hi and introduce myself to the forum anyway! Maybe some of you remember me?
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abrahma kumar

friends or family of a BK

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Post18 Jan 2007

Thanks to everyone for the posts on this topic -so much shared so honestly. The title of the topic SEX sticks out like a sore thumb - and i just could not avoid clicking the link to see what was said. Strange what an innocent combination of letters can ignite within one. Hope to post something more meaningful on this thread one day. What's strange though is that I started posting on this ste for about 1 month now and i never noticed the topic - perhaps someone can advise whether selective blindness is a consequence of posting on a site such as this :lol:

A horrifying realisation just crossed my mind? Maybe it is a sign that I am well and truly damned as just became aware of the date - 18th January. OMB

Hope that EVERYONE readd this post in the light-hearted spirit in which it has been composed. Regards
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proy

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going blind

Post20 Jan 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:What's strange though is that I started posting on this ste for about 1 month now and I never noticed the topic - perhaps someone can advise whether selective blindness is a consequence of posting on a site such as this :lol:

If you start getting hairs on the palms of your hands as well as the "selective blindness" then what my grandmother said must be true!
Abrahma Kumar wrote:Hope that EVERYONE readd this post in the light-hearted spirit in which it has been composed. Regards

Absolutely - :lol:
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proy

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Re: Sex

Post08 Feb 2007

joel wrote:Shaming adult love between people in a group like the BKs helps hold the followers in a child's mindset of emotional dependence on the senior teachers who are presented as God's instruments.

This is the real motive, of course. It is the same reason homosexuality was illegal in the UK for so long. If you can control what a person does in the privacy of their own bedroom then you are controlling them big-time. They then get into a life long habit of being in a state of fear. Control and fear. These are the two main skills of the BKs. I know I was scared witless myself while I was a BK, and one does not get over it in just a day or two either.

I have seen some suggestions elsewhere on this site that "If you don't like the BKs just leave, simple as that." Simple minded to think such a thing, and lacking in thought and compassion. I was even scared to post on this site when I was a BK. I did it anyway, but believe me I was scared. For a while after I left I was still afraid. I tried to fool myself that I did not need any help, that I had left the BKs and it was all over. I emailed the "contact us" part of the forum to say how much I appreciated the people who ran the site and posted on it, but said I did not need to come and post here again. I know better now.

The power of shaming people. Shame on those who abuse that power.
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sparkal

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Post10 Feb 2007

With regards to the BKs and sex, I would tend towards the theory that they are a little naive rather than the conspiracy theories.

Celibacy is a subjective thing. Most people are physically celibate most of the time. It amazes me how people are so sexually motivated given the actual time spent in participation. If you ask me, it takes up far too much of our thought energy. To turn sex into a sin is taking it to extremes. On the other hand, perhaps it is just proof that we are dealing with a very powerful subject.

The BKs, officially should be looking at themselves, in particular the sexual activities in Madhuban (if there are any). Indeed, I think a thorough investigation is required. Let's just say that, purity begins at home. is not that right Madhuban?
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proy

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Sex

Post10 Feb 2007

sparkal wrote:To turn sex into a sin is taking it to extremes.

Agreed. I would also say that trying very hard not to be body conscious actually has the reverse effect of making you even more body conscious than you were before. It is like the parable of whatever you do don't think of a purple elephant.
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sparkal

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Post13 Feb 2007

What body?
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andrey

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Post23 Feb 2007

Romanticism will always have some nice, positive, feelings of association. If we can help in bringing about this new, pure, forgotten, romantic country where purity and unadultery existed, what is so bad about that? Who creates this new world and who makes it old? One Father creates new world and many gurus make the world old. We should know both. We should know both worlds of Ram and Ravan and choose the new one.

Have you been to India? Where is the peace there from? Where is the beauty on the face and in the eyes of people there from?

In India there are these mythological stories of Sita, Savitri on reading them one says – I would like to have a woman like this or become a woman like this. For them it is said that they even not lifted their eyes to see another's man.

And responsibility lies on people. Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit gives the example that which animals fall sick more, those who live free in the jungle or those in contact with human beings. It is because of this power of thoughts in the human beings that they get influence by the vibrations of impurity of man.
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ex-l

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Post24 Feb 2007

Andrey wrote:Have you been to India? Where is the peace there from? Where is the beauty on the face and in the eyes of people there from? In India there are these mythological stories of Sita, Savitri on reading them one says – I would like to have a woman like this or become a woman like this. For them it is said that they even not lifted their eyes to see another’s man.

Which India? The India where women are still chattal, property, uneducated, in fear of their lives, controlled for their whole lives by patriarchal society? Here are the crime statistics for India, link. Where else have you travelled to? I'd say the poor ... it is they that you talk of ... and mostly happy because of the sun ... and their utter resignation to their condition. The cold and wet, as in your Europe makes human beings very closed and miserable. These Sitas are metaphorical allegories, surely? Following one Ram, or one Krishna?
Baba via Veerendra Dev Dixit gives the example that which animals fall sick more, those who live free in the jungle or those in contact with human beings. It is because of this power of thoughts in the human beings that they get influence by the vibrations of impurity of man.

May be he was talking metaphorically of dieties in the jungle of human beings today? Unfortunately, animals in the wild are subject to Darwinian 'natural selection'. The ones with the biggest claws and teeth, or the ones that can hide or run the fastest, the ones that can be the most poisonous, surviving the longest whilst animals in captivity are subject to inbreeding but how many of each actually get to live out a long and "natural" lifespan? Life is short, brutal and restless, and then there is man cutting down their forests, burning their land and hunting them out of existence.

Do you mean the vast majority that die in childhood, the little animals that are eaten alive or the big wild animals that eat the little wild animals until the little wild animals run out and then they starve too? How many die because their hooves, tusks or beaks grow too long crippling and stabbing them. Nature red in tooth and claw. What "proofs", what statistics do we have to support this? A cat in the wild will live a much shorter like than a cat on a warm lap. And you can read that metaphorically too.

Andrey, with all due respect for one surrendered to a religious life and compassion from one that tried, save yourself from religious romanticism a very sublte form of Maya. The here and now is hard. I know that. Very hard. We need dreams to want to survive but illusions are unhealthy. And even if your dreams are going to come true, if you want to sell them to others, be real about them too.

I mean this kindly, why not learn to write devotional poetry or romantic novels and work it out of your system positively? The world needs inspiration like that. Hold your dreams lightly and don't claim the are "real" or you will push people away from it.
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andrey

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Post01 Mar 2007

Dear Brother,

It’s a world non-existent at present – a possible future world. The stories about Sita, Savitri reflect one major trait of a generalized character of an Indian woman. Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit says they are like cows. Innocent. You’ll find them wherever you left them. Yes, a man does not need much to be happy with like sun etc ... but the Sun is there for all. Why are not all happy with it, because it is a matter of what you feel inside. We need to learn how to feel well inside so we need such a Sun of Knowledge that can light us up from inside. Such information that can make us happy.

The example was about animals. Why do you make deities the same as animals? Yes, he makes monkeys into deities. And who are these monkeys who are close to human beings? Human beings are those that think, it means the progeny of Manu or Brahma. Who are these moneys that are close to Brahma and the Brahmins and become sick more than those who are free in the jungle? And what sickness do they suffer?

No one gives pills to animals in the jungle. Now pets, dogs become weak, cough, get cold, have pullovers and complicated diseases like epilepsy. Even human babies are so weak they cannot drink milk they become allergic, they need special treatment. We don't desire name, fame and success in this world. We study for the future. We don't mislead people that this world will continue and can become a better place if we all take one another's hands. We understand that this world is to end and it can become heaven if each and every one takes one hand of Shrimat.

This knowledge is for free it is not for selling.
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ex-l

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Post01 Mar 2007

Andrey wrote: The stories about Sita, Savitri reflect one major trait of a generalized character of an Indian woman. Baba via Veerendra Dev Dixit says they are like cows. Innocent. You’ll find them wherever you left them.

The rest of your post wanders off topic, rather like a dog that is not chained to its kennel. But your comments on Indian women on on topic regarding gender and sexuality. Do otehrs agree with VDDs view of Indian women? Are there any contributory factors such as sexism, caste-ism, lack of education, religious programming, poverty? You are in an intoxicated dream Andrey, presenting a hugely stereotypical cartoon character of Indian women and unsubstantiated unscientific nonsense about animals.

Sweet dreams whilst they last ... stay there ... I mean it. The real world is far harder to manage. You wander here and there sniffing for scent and then delivering the package that you always deliver, "... the One .. the One". OK, gamble your life on the One but try keep "on topic" in these forum, please.
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