How "Indian" is Raja Yoga ?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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bansy

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How "Indian" is Raja Yoga ?

Post22 Jan 2007

The following is from the PBK thread "Points for Churning" :
arjun wrote:Murli PT. No. 36 - (KINGDOM OF WORLD)

• "Abhi jaantey ho Baba fir say aakar hamko vishwa kee baadshaahi detey hain. Koi kee buddhi may nahi aayega ki vishwa ki baadshahi kya hoti hai. Vishwa maana saari duniya." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 01.09.05, page 2)

• "Now you know that Baba has come again and is giving us the kingship of the world. It will not strike the intellect of anyone else as to what is the kingship of the world (vishwa kee baadshaahi)? ‘Vishwa’ means entire world.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 01.09.05, page 2 published by BKs and narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba)

- Baba is telling that He is giving us the kingship of the world and that ‘vishwa’ means the entire world. But the picture of Lakshmi-Narayan published by the BKs shows only the map of India. Then the Golden Aged Lakshmi-Narayan will be called only the Emperor of India and not the World Emperor. Are the souls, who get revealed as the mother and Father or Emperor & Empress of the entire world and all the souls of the world different (from the souls which become Lakshmi-Narayan in the Golden Age)?

During the Golden Age, life of deities exists only in India. All other places are picnic places. ie why they show only the picture of India. It is said that Mama will give birth to Krishna and they she leave her body and will take birth as Radhe. -who will become Lakshmi after her marriage.

Question : I think a similar topic was raised before either in this website or in XBKChat, but is BK/PBK Raja Yoga only for mainly souls in India and for double-foreigner-Indian souls of the current birth, whereas the chances for double-foreigner-non-Indian souls in the current birth is few and far between ?

I don't want to raise any race issues here, more about how the Murlis and knowledge deals with the types of souls and the necessity of the Yagya going out to the rest of the world if only India is to benefit.
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abrahma kumar

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Post22 Jan 2007

I don't want to raise any race issues here, more about how the Murlis and knowledge deals with the types of souls and the necessity of the Yagya going out to the rest of the world if only India is to benefit.

Wow Bansy you ask a question that is absolutely on the 'cutting edge' and I hope that posters to this site offer their thoughts because feeling is that as the drama now stands insights such as this need to be explored and chances are that they will not or can not be explored within the BKWSU. In making this post on the back of Bansy's I would also like to stress that there are no racial undertones in my so doing but just a healthy regard for continued enlightenment.

I also understand that news of the BKWSU/Blair/Gibb 'interface' has broken within the organisation based on that news article which was discussed on posts on this site. Guidelines on how to respond if the topic comes up when BK's are on a public platform have been issued ... All very interesting. It is almost as if there is an inexorable force at work propelling the BKWSU into the public eye in a manner that is not entirely under the 'stage management' of the organisation itself. Maybe Dadi Janki will soon need to hire a PR consultant? Perhaps the vibrations of the pure intentions of posters on sites such as this are beginning to take shape on the world stage.

What if for all we know 'Shankar' is the form given to a collective cyber-based consciousness moulded in part by the BK teachings but for whatever reason - each one of us has that personal knowledge - the thoughts and actions that will arise from that state of consciousness can no longer be 'housed' within the BKWSU?

Personally I would not be pleased to see lies or mis-information about the BKWSU put out into the public domain however there has to be at least a 'crumb' of benefit in any 'opening up' of the organisation even if the exposure is not stage-managed by the organisation itself.

Om Shanti
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arjun

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Post22 Jan 2007

I am producing below an extract of my reply to BK Mitra on his views on the above Murli point in the PBKs Section.
Regards,
Arjun
---------------------------------------
The Golden Age that BKs or PBKs perceive would have only the landmass of Indian subcontinent. Rest of the landmass is supposed to remain submerged with a few islands here and there for picnics.

But the 'entire world' that Baba is referring is not the world that would exist in the Golden Age because by that time most of the land mass would be already submerged under water and most of the human population would have returned to Paramdham. So, practically speaking the Golden Aged Lakshmi-Narayan would only be the Emperors of India. BKs also say that souls of other religions would not come to Golden Age.

But it is a fact that almost all the religions believe in heaven. Muslims call it bahisht, Christians call it heaven. They also believe in Adam and Eve. If the persons believed to be Adam and Eve by the BKs (i.e. Dada Lekhraj and Mama Saraswati) have departed long back in the 1960s when the heads of various religions had not yet received the Godly knowledge, then how did the other religions visualize Adam and Eve?
Arjun

bansy

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Post23 Jan 2007

In the latest Avaykt BapDada Vani 18th January 2007, page3, the "a_dvance party" was again mentioned. Who comprises of this a dvance party, and where are they residing actually ? How big is this so called "a_dvance party" and do the souls of this party originate from the Indian continent or from outside India, i.e have the members already been decided ? Well if the a_dvance party exists, according to BK, then there must be some decision on who is in it.

(Note : I use a space between for the word a_dvance because the forum software converts it into upper case. It is not the same meaning as Advance Party which has been used to describe the party of the PBKs).
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john

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Post23 Jan 2007

(Note : I use a space between for the word a_dvance because the forum software converts it into upper case. It is not the same meaning as Advance Party which has been used to describe the party of the PBKs).

Bansy
What makes you think that it is not one and the same Advance Party?

bansy

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Post23 Jan 2007

What makes you think that it is not one and the same Advance Party?

You're right, it probably is, but as far as the BKs are concerned have not "recognised" the PBKs as such, whilst the PBKs have accepted the two rosaries of the BKs and PBKs.

Thus the quote is made from Avaykt BapDada Vani, which I think has a deeper meaning to it (as you've pointed out), which is spoken to the BK audience. But do the BKs recognise it, or is the a_dvance party simply another group of souls who have left their bodies and are in-waiting (this was what I first thought when coming to Gyan, a group consisting of Mama (Radhe) and Dadis and Dadas who have left).

Actually I haven't given it too much thought until now, although I think it has been touched up on somewhere before maybe way back in XBKChat. The "a_dvance party" doesn't always come up in Avaykt BapDada Vanis either.

bansy

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Post24 Jan 2007

All,

Some news have just reached here about the program Big Brother. There's not much detail on it though. However, just to say that when this thread was raised had no connection to that program, it is coincidental that I was to mention no racial implications, whilst in the meantime the news topic is in the front page in UK and India. Maybe the chaos theory does work. :P Sometimes it is better not to know.

Though I am not surprised that racial/religious debates get heated up on air TV in UK, where there are many races there.

With the increasing global immigration, these issues will seem to increase more and more.
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Mr Green

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Post25 Jan 2007

The BKWSU 'knowledge' is just effectively a re writing of aspects of Hinduism, just a few numbers changed ... it's nothing new ... get it :lol:

Anyone who watches car crash trash like Big Brother is part of what it is all about, the truth is that racism exists in everyone unless they are completely without ignorance, which is not possible big Brother ... big deal.

freefall

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Post31 Jan 2007

Mr Green wrote:The BKWSU 'knowledge' is just effectively a re writing of aspects of Hinduism, just a few numbers changed ... it's nothing new ... get it :lol:

This is one of the most common misconceptions.

I have been a Hindu and I have been a BK. Apart from a common vocabulary there is nothing in common between BK and Hinduism. BKs use the names of Hindu deities and scriptures and it gives an impression that BK is an off-shoot of Hinduism, untill you decide to go deeper either in Hinduism or in BK

I sometimes see common Hindus visiting a BK center as tourists and bowing in respect to BK founder and deities' pictures. It doesn't really mean anything. Hindus are in the habit of finding excuses to bow to anything considered sacred by anyone. Such bowing is however very superficial. Nothing more should be read into this.

The point is that a Hindu will need almost same dose of brainwashing (may be more) as a non-Hindu to buy in to BK rubbish.
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ex-l

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Post01 Feb 2007

freefall wrote:I sometimes see common Hindus visiting a BK center as tourists and bowing in respect to BK founder and deities' pictures. It doesn't really mean anything. Hindus are in the habit of finding excuses to bow to anything considered sacred by anyone. Such bowing is however very superficial. Nothing more should be read into this.

The point is that a Hindu will need almost same dose of brainwashing (may be more) as a non-Hindu to buy in to BK rubbish.

We know from the Murlis that Shiva claims the BKWSU is not Hinduism, nor from Hinduism.

Interestingly, officially in a UN setting, the BKWSU also claimed that it was not Hindu but a New Religious Movement.

However, in its Charity Commission and other nation's registration, it claims that it was set up "To promote Hinduism".

What is going on here?

bansy

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Post01 Feb 2007

freefall wrote:I have been a Hindu

Brother, if possible, can you explain what do you mean, what dieties or gods you have/had been "worshipping", scriptures you have/had been reading, and what "branch" of Hindusim you are belonging to.
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Mr Green

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Post01 Feb 2007

I am sorry but I have read many Hindu texts and studied extensively the teachings of the BKWSU, and there are many similarities but with dates and significance changes.

I am not saying they are they same. I am saying Lekhraj drew on the resource he had culturally that is Hinduism and used it to create his system. In fact, he claims that Hinduism and all religions are in fact a memorial or the true Gita which according to him is the Murli.

So even BapDada is saying the same thing only in reverse, where I am claiming that in fact it is the other way round.

freefall

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Post01 Feb 2007

ex-l wrote:Interestingly, officially in a UN setting, the BKWSU also claimed that it was not Hindu but a New Religious Movement.

However, in its Charity Commission and other nation's registration, it claims that it was set up "To promote Hinduism".

What is going on here?

Nothing special. BKs are doing what they are best at - duplicity and deception. They can be Hindu or non-Hindu based on their convenience.

BKs stand reminds me of Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna who claimed that the reality was "neither being, nor non-being, nor both, nor neither." BKs connection with Hinduism is similar.
==========
bansy wrote:Brother, if possible, can you explain what do you mean, what dieties or gods you have/had been "worshipping", scriptures you have/had been reading, and what "branch" of Hindusim you are belonging to.

I was an 'amorphous' Hindu: Someone who believes in all the gods of Hinduism, but not too much in any of them; Someone who respects all the scriptures of Hinduism, but has not read any of them properly. 'Amorphous' Hinduism is what correctly describes the faith of majority of Hindus.

bansy

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Post01 Feb 2007

Thanks for the reply freefall.
They can be Hindu or non-Hindu based on their convenience.

I sort of raised this thread more to understand how "Indian" does a student need to be to really understand Raja Yoga, because of the emphasis of Bharat in the Murlis and because of, as others have pointed, the "Hindu" aspect of it (i.e. language, gods). When you have a BK centre in India, it seems to fit in, but when it is in other parts of the world, depending on the multicultural aspect of that country or location, it can sometimes seem out of place, more exotic than spiritual. One can say, that in latter, that it is due to the karma of the BKWSU and that place of location. The Indianeity (?) of it sells.

I know in UK that having a Chinese takeway at every street corner is almost as British as the local fish and chips. And yet the Chinese chop suey is still an exotic food for most palates.

When you wear a saree or kurta in India as a BK, even westerners do not stand out. Try the same in down town Bronx and it may raise a few eyebrows. But if an Indian wore the same outfit in the Bronx, maybe that is acceptable.

(Never been to the Bronx, sorry if it seems to give a "bad" image, only used as a illustrative purpose. )

One other reason I raised for this thread, is hopefully can get more "amorphous" Hindus to participate in discussion to understand how they experience the BKWSU. So credit to freefall for allowing his insights.
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ex-l

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Post01 Feb 2007

freefall wrote:
ex-l wrote:However, in its Charity Commission and other nation's registration, it claims that it was set up "To promote Hinduism". What is going on here?

Nothing special. BKs are doing what they are best at - duplicity and deception. They can be Hindu or non-Hindu based on their convenience.

This I would agree with wholeheartedly.

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