BK Food issues

I was a vegetarian for many years before meeting the BK's so that little exhortation did not require any lifestyle adjustment from me. But recently though after declining the offer of a biscuit on account of my being a vegetarian I got the response, "so was I when I was younger but I finished with that rebelliousness sometime ago".

I tend to deal with such supercilliousness with complete and utter ruthlessness. I can give you a few examples if you want. Far better to show them your teeth and make them think twice about trying the same line on the next vegetarian or vegan that they meat [sister in charge]!

What would be interesting would be if someone would just scientifically prove, or show evidence, that offering Bhog or kosherizing food made any difference. It is a wonder that the BKWSU with all its Millions does not risk applying itself to such fundimental proofs.

I have no doubt at all, in this industrialized meat market, that having a Rabbi at the end of a slaughterhouse conveyor belt doing magic makes no difference whatsoever to the blood drain cows and sheep, however it benefits their synagogue's bank balance. Have a look at your average foodstore shelves for foods with a K or Pareve mark, each from a different competing financial organization. Each one taxed by that religion.

But with the BKWSU, I would reckon that something is going on. It is obvious that putting the channelled entity Shiva before, and between, you and your body - or physical nourishment - is a big deal mentally. I am sure that something psychic goes on too but cannot qualify what. A Japanese scientist did some interesting work on vibrations in water, did anyone else see it? Dr. Masaru Emoto. Interestingly, he also says, "that the soul has mass". Something other researchers have also stated. Dead bodies weigh less than live ones.

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm
http://www.wellnessgoods.com/messages.asp
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight ... _emoto.htm

Given that food is 90%+ water, there is a high probability in my mind that it does pick up vibrations and that perhaps water is a powerful medium through which Shiva's, and others', vibrations can pass into our bodies.

Just how much effect the vibrations have, in what circumstances, really ought to be studied rather than just passed on superstitiously.

Do PBKs give their food dhristi? I believe the answer was no. When did that ritual come in?

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm
http://www.wellnessgoods.com/messages.asp
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight ... _emoto.htm
Given that food is 90%+ water, there is a high probability in my mind that it does pick up vibrations and that perhaps water is a powerful medium through which Shiva's, and others', vibrations can pass into our bodies.

Just how much effect the vibrations have, in what circumstances, really ought to be studied rather than just passed on superstitiously.

I've tried to investigate what this fellow is up to few years ago. TO my recollection, this guy was just doing a non-scientific research and the outcome was based on his biased experiment. He might have good intentions for the world, but if his "simple" experiments is purely B.S. and cannot be repeated in a simple way, then that makes him a B.S. to me, too.

Try this simple experiment and see if it will give the same results as he had. Get 2 identical clean drinking glasses, pour the same amount of distilled water and cover the glasses with identical lid covers. Stick a piece of paper on one glass with the written word "Shiva". Put the other glass away from the other and start giving drishti on the glass with the word "Shiva". Then after one day, freeze both glasses with water in a freezer. Observe the crystals of both under a microscope. According to him, you would get beautiful formation of crystal in that one in which you put good vibes.

It is my opinion that subtle vibrations channels through the 5 senses and through our mental consciousness. When the five senses are not working, the mind can still churn and whatever thought entered is amplified or can stay in the subconcious mind. Information (ordered form of energy) is the true form of subtle energy/vibration that is transferred from one soul to another.

If you tap someone's shoulder physcially to show gratitude or appreciation, that ordered form of energy (or work) gets transferred to that person. If Shiva speaks the Murli, He transfers some highly ordered form of energy - sound, sight - coupled with the ability of these highly ordered form of information to be amplified by our concious minds and stay in the subconcious level.

I still have to do a lot of research on how this so-called "living water" traps this form of subtle vibrations and stores them in its molecular configuration (on the primary, secondary, tertiary and quarternary levels). The brain is proven to store information on those 4 molecular (physical in nature) levels.

I've tried to investigate what this fellow is up to few years ago. TO my recollection, this guy was just doing a non-scientific research and the outcome was based on his biased experiment. He might have good intentions for the world, but if his "simple" experiments is purely B.S. and cannot be repeated in a simple way, then that makes him a B.S. to me, too.

I don't know. I have not spent any time on it at all. There was a controversy with the French immunologist/homeopath Jacques Benveniste and the "memory of water" which would equally support the dhristi/Bhog theory. Do you mean him? He was hit by the James Randi/travelling skeptic circus whose mode of operation is as dubious as the worst of any crank science.

Generally, as also with the whole cold fusion debacle, the critics equally fail to admit that they did not follow exactly the science but have to do things their better way and go into their own knee jerk response. Has anyone done any science on BK Raja Yoga claims?

(Personally, I think we also ought to recall Dadi Janki and other Dadis to see if they live up to the peace mind experiment. That went right under the scientific radar and made zero effect in the real world, albeit secured her position in the BK world and with the PR machine).

According to him, you would get beautiful formation of crystal in that one in which you put good vibes.

That is assuming you are putting in good vibes. Maybe Shiva is bad vibes?

There is a lot of evidence that vibes can be put into water in the records of the British Society of Dowsers. It is mostly anecdotal but is collected over a long period of time. The most convincing studies involve animals, where presumably there is no placebo effect.

There was a controversy with the French immunologist/homeopath Jacques Benveniste and the "memory of water" which would equally support the dhristi/Bhog theory. Do you mean him? He was hit by the James Randi/travelling skeptic circus whose mode of operation is as dubious as the worst of any crank science.

The last time I visited his website was about 4 years ago. It made me laugh a bit 'because his experiment sounds so good to be true. Imagine recording the "sound" of a molecule in a digital recorder and play the "sound" anywhere and the sound is supposed to cause the same chemical reaction without even the presence of the actual molecule/substance! So, one can email you the "digital sound print" of certain drugs and you "play and hear" it on your computer and you get the effect of the actual drug itself.

IMHO, this is not how vibes work. There are trillions and trillions of tiny molecular configurations to store those bits of information pertaining to "subtle vibrations". A good example is the brain or even the single unicellular organism or even a virus which acts as medium for these subtle vibrations. These complex molecular configurations can emit and receive "subtle vibrations" stored in the structure of that living being. If the soul exists, then it can probably store subtle vibrations too but in a much much finer level.

My theory of how "pure" water stores subtle vibrations is like this;

Water molecules can arrange themselves in a three dimensional structure and therefore can be a candidate to store "some" information. When you give drishti to water, it is possible that it can store that vibes, HOWEVER, we are considering the SUM TOTAL of all thought waves on the planet and so, the effect of putting drishti on water is highly neglible. Water would have "subtle vibe" in any given time that is in resonance with sum total of the thoughts on the planet. The more degraded the world, the more the elements don't have the chi.

The act of giving drishti to the food has more benefits to the soul becoming more disciplined, than the purification of food itself.

So, one can email you the "digital sound print" of certain drugs and you "play and hear" it on your computer and you get the effect of the actual drug itself. IMHO, this is not how vibes work.

I went for something like this many years ago and it seemed to be a pyramid selling scam. I sat in a sound proof room while different frequencies of sound were played to me. I had attached to my finger a simple blood colour monitor of the type used in hospitals. This measured the oxygen levels in my blood. All the data went on to a computer and the (very expensive) software then downloaded "my" sounds into a small device which reproduced the sounds through headphones. Certain of the sounds were alleged to be the frequencies of medicines. I gave it a fair try, but with no result.

My conclusion was that the "therapist" had spent a lot of money buying the equipment and then had to make the money back somehow. It was like a franchise. She had to pay a percentage of her fees to the original suppliers, and the software required frequent, expensive, updates.

The last hearsay I got was our bodies are 70% water. How much of that is in our brain ? And what about the other 30% ?

Belief in the power of toli ... Bhog ... Dadi's vibes based on past Bhakti.

If these Bhakti vibes are being passed on is that one of the ways the BKs use to affect the people who eat the food? Does this forge a psychic link with the centre, the BKs, and whatever entities they are having Yoga with while offering the food or giving it drishti? Also what about the "nectar" on Thursday mornings? What is that all about? I just queued up for it and drank it, but I don't even know now what was in it. Supposing the vibrations of the people making the food do have an effect - what about the vibes of the farmer who planted the seeds and shot the pigeons and rabbits. What about the vibes of the bored factory worker who packed the food, and the vibes of the shop assistant who sold it?

(As an aside, I think we ought to combine all the food topics into one).

That would be good for this and for other topics that are similar, to make the information more readily accesible.

the last hearsay I got was our bodies are 70% water. How much of that is in our brain ? And what about the other 30% ?

I would like to point out the line of thinking of those people who subscribe to the idea that water traps subtle vibrations and believes in the so called "miracle water".

It would be good to put it in a form of syllogism.

The brain can receive and store subtle vibrations.
The brain is composed of about 90 to 95 percent water.
Therefore, water receive and store tons of information and even subtle vibrations.

Right? Wrong!

The facts:

1. The structure of brain is orders of magnitude more complex than pure water.
2. Pure water consists of Hydrogen and oxygen atoms. Living brain consists of different kinds of elements (I assume more than 50% of the elements in the periodic table).
3. Water consists of one kind of molecule (H20), whereas living brain consists of thousands (if not millions) of different kinds of molecules.
4. Because living brain is a highly complex structure, it can store millions of bits of information.

IMHO, pure water can store some high level information like the frequency of the guitar sound string, but this stored information (in the three dimensional structure of water), would be short-lived perhaps only in picoseconds. Water molecules are constantly vibrating and the information stored in it, no matter how complex it is, it would be very short-lived by virtue of the lack of the "necessary ingredients" and complexity to interlock and store those information for a considerable amount of time.

Water lacks the "necessary ingredients" and "ordered complexity" to receive and store these stimuli or subtle vibrations.

Although, living brain needs more than 90% water, it is NOT the water that receives and stores those information, but the ordered complex structure and configuration of the brain, and this is made possible through the sense organs.

Thank you for that clinical explanation. When the brain is dead, only water is left, and like the rest of our body will evaporate. And the other tissues will decompose into its elements.

I am not doubting any scientific studies, but it's simply a miracle of creation that the body which houses our soul is created simply from fusing two minute cells, and ends up with lots of water. At least in this Iron Age. Golden Age and human creation....that's already in another thread.

OK, off to read up about miracle waterand syllogism.

OK, off to read up about miracle water and syllogism.

It is equally amazing how Carbon atoms which comprise of a small percentage of the living organism, can arrange themselves together with other elements, to form millions of different kinds of organic molecules. Does anyone know that organic molecules are millions of times more in number than inorganic ones?

Water is considered an inorganic molecule and the moment it combines with C in the living cell, the new molecule becomes organic. It is this organic molecule that is crucial in storing information.

My viewpoint just asserts that elements or molecules no matter how rare they are on the planet or in the living cell, are amazing by themsleves because they perform a definite function as "specific messengers" of information.

As a joke, I will relate some analogy this time (forget about syllogism). Our planet can be considered a living ecosystem. According to the BK philosophy, they are the top knots, and they comprise about 1.3% of the world population. The other 98.7% are shudras and are destined to be not saved. By the "water analogy", these 98.7% Shudra souls are amazing because they are the medium of information for our planet. However, we know for good, that BKs claim themselves as the heroes of the world.

The question is, do we focus on the minor ingredients or the major ones? I think as a good human being, we ought to focus on the collective good of each and everyone.

Right? Wrong! The facts:

I bow to your moral position regards humanity but I'd say the science is not so much 'right, wrong and "the facts"' ... but just a correctly stated but previous level of scientific understanding, so caution in case our understanding evolves. Science is aware it doesn't understand the intricacies of how water works. It is highly unique and its properties opposes much of the rest of known universe. The structure of water – the reason for its peculiar properties – is a major question in chemistry and physics.

Also what about the "nectar" on Thursday mornings? What is that all about? I just queued up for it and drank it, but I don't even know now what was in it. Supposing the vibrations of the people making the food do have an effect - what about the vibes of the farmer who planted the seeds and shot the pigeons and rabbits. What about the vibes of the bored factory worker who packed the food, and the vibes of the shop assistant who sold it?

All very fair questions. The PBKs are certain that the Nectar thing has no roots in Gyan at all. Arjun will clarify I am sure. For me it is all about the Dadis and Didis replacing your mother's breast with their's ... metaphorically speaking. Does anyone else remember the controversy when some whole Dutch BKs got sick of the sugared water approach and started to offer bancha tea instead!?!

To be sure, all the above have influence ... what about the van driver and delivery boy cursing and swearing his way through the city to get to you? Why is this stuff all not quantified? Because it is all just about keeping the individual BK busy, immersed, trapped by superstition, connected and dependent on THEM ... the sole purveyor of Knowledge[TM].

That "Right? Wrong!" statement pertains to my syllogism which is right off the bat erroneous logically speaking. And it is correct that science has nothing to do with right or wrong. It continuously evolves as more evidence comes into play.

Science is aware it doesn't understand the intricacies of how water works. It is highly unique and its properties opposes much of the rest of known universe. The structure of water – the reason for its peculiar properties – is a major question in chemistry and physics.

This is a fair comment and I wish to point out again that I have nothing against with the belief that water is a mysterious substance. I find a lot of molecules to be mysterious, too. What I see and read on a lot of articles (these include even science research) are so much about exaggeration, biases, dishonesty, attempts to promote something, and write-ups that cannot be substantiated.

An example is a zero-point energy device. So much talks have already been said about the theory and building it, but to my knowledge, not a single device has been demonstrated successfully. And so we cannot blame the skeptics for not believing.

It is true there are so many mysteries on the physical domain, and because of this, there is a lot of room for subjectivity, interpretation, abuse, and dishonesty.

The PBKs are certain that the Nectar thing has no roots in Gyan at all.

The offering of nectar (sugared water) by the Dadis/BK Sisters to the BK students every Thursday morning is nothing but a shooting/rehearsal of Bhakti in the Confluence-Aged world of Brahmins. I don't think it has anything to do with knowledge. In fact ShivBaba has Himself said this about the so-called nectar in the revised Sakar Murli dated 30.06.06, pg.2

"Baap kahtey hain yahaan hai gyaan kee baatein. Tum thoda bhi gyaan suntey ho toh fal mil jaataa hai. Yah gyaan sun-ney kee baat hai. Amrit peeney kee cheez nahee hai. Yah knowledge hai. Aisey nahee samjho ki Bhog kay din Amrit pilaatey hain. Nahee voh toh meetha paani hai. Baaki ye hai gyaan kee baat. Gyaan arthaat Baap aur srishti kay aadi madhya, ant ko jaan-na."

"The Father says here it is matters of knowledge. Even if you listen to a little knowledge you get the fruits. It is a matter of listening to The Knowledge. Nectar is not a drink. It is knowledge. Do not think that nectar is offered on the day of Bhog. No, that is a sweet (or sugared) water. As for the rest, it is a matter of knowledge. Knowledge means knowing the Father and the beginning, middle and end of the world."

In accordance with the above Shrimat, there is no tradition of offering Bhog/nectar at AIVV. In fact not even toli is offered to the PBKs after the class on any day. ShivBaba says that PBKs should have their meals/breakfast before coming to the class so that this unnecessary expenditure of offering toli/food could be avoided. If anyone wants they can bring their tiffins. That is why the timing of the weekly gathering at the gitapathshalas/ mini-Madhubans is arranged in such a way that the PBKs can come from home after having their breakfast/meals and can have the next meals at home after the class. This rule is for the local PBKs, but for the PBKs who come to attend the weekly/monthly gathering from other cities/town to a particular mini-Madhubans, meals are arranged for them.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Note: The English translation has been done by a PBK. It would be interesting to the official BK version in English.

Arjunbhai,

I have read your reply, thank you. Obviously there is a more down to earth approach for PBKs, without the Bhakti. We were often told not to eat breakfast before coming in to class. This was based on something Dadi Janki said to the effect that the Murli is more important than breakfast. So you see how far the BKWSU in its centres in the West has strayed from the original teachings.

Very great ceremony and "Holiness" is made of the Bhog offerings on Thursdays, with trance messages from the Sisters. Officially these trance messages are banned, but the Sisters are unable to resist telling what they saw and heard during the offering of food.