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How to be the God's beloved and have love for other person?

PostPosted: 24 May 2006
by sanvean
I told my history at ex-BK site. I left Raja Yoga 11 years ago because I fell in love with a guy, not because I lost my faith.

Left Raja Yoga was a kind of death for me. I rebuild my life quickly (university, marriage, son) and this things help me, but I kept a relationhip with Brahma Kumaris all this years. I discover ex-BK site when Brahma Kumaris was almost overcame for me. It was important to write there to finish this chapter in my life. I am doing therapy since I left BK and I had an interesting dream last week and I would like to share with you some impressions about it. Please, sorry the bad, bad English ...

I dreamed that I was with my therapist. He told me he has a patient who said, "she was the God's beloved". Immediatly I said to him that I know this history very well. She came from Brahma Kumaris and he needs to deconstruct (I don't know this word in English, but it is not build again and it's not destroy too) her. I felt I kind of angry about her situation.

I think a lot about this dream and I could understand somethings with it. When I join with BK, I was 18 years old. A young and passionated girl. The main relashionship I had with God was the beloved. I had a deeper love for God, so, when I left BK, I felt myself dirty, guilt and full of pain. But I thought I had a special role in this world even though I was not in Gyan anymore. I decided to study journalism and help to reveal Baba throught the media. I did the university, I did a little bit of service but I understood that I chose a profession for idealism. But the reality is so different and the motivation to chose was not internal, but external. So, crises.

The main point is that I never more could have a relationship with a man (I am married) without guilt. I feel myself like an adulterer, because I was betraying Baba. And I couldn´t have sex without think it's bad, it's lust. So, I couldn't be beautiful too. I became fat because a ugly body repels physical attraction.

And since I left Brahma Kumaris, never more I had that deeper relashionship with God. When I try to be close, I come near with shame. Can I be up to the mark of the God's love? Can I love my husband without guilt and shame? Well, I think I need to reconstruct myself and I trying to do this everyday. I am trying to recover my creativity, my passion, my body, my femininity. I don't care if this is body conscious. For me, this is health. And I want and I need to be the Beloved of God again, but without restrictions. I don´t want to be an angel, a deity. I don't care about those things now. I want to be a good person, who loves God, my husband, my son and the humanity. And I am sure that Brahma Kumaris is a path, but is not the path.

Hi Sanvean

PostPosted: 24 May 2006
by joel
I appreciate the open way you describe your situation. Language is not a problem; your truth comes through very clearly.

I had written on ex-BK Chat a reply to Tomas asking about the conflict he feels between wanting relationship with a celibacy-expecting God and wanting the closeness that comes from intimate relationship with attractive human(s). I wrote about how we are mammals, and like all mammals, we need touch in order to live. Tete also wrote a beautiful piece about the role of touch in changing others' lives.

So I think one step to get free from the guilt about having loving touch in life is to understand what is natural for us in terms of our millions of years of evolutionary history, which we share with many other animals. Without touch, a baby will die, even if she gets food. All of us also need touch, even though many (especially in Japan) seem to function without very much of it.

I think God, if there is Someone Up There, would definitely sympathize and approve of our meeting our yearning for touch. Who said that God is absent there when you are doing that by yourself or with someone. Maybe God is there and smiling when She sees you fulfilled in those ways. More often it is our own concepts of right and (mostly) wrong that punishes us, rather than God actually coming down from Her cloud-throne to condemn us with thunderbolts, earthquakes and plagues.

Just because we feel bad doesn't necessarily mean that the thing is wrong, or that we are wrong or bad. It is a sickness of negative self judgment that cannot believe that goodness could coexist with satisfying one's various intimacy needs. Some negative images that are burned into us. So those images are the problem, not that we need to become sexless icy angels that never need to touch or love. Look in the world and see how many great fulfilled people are around who are happy without trying to be perfect icy angels. Find some perfect icy angel-people. Are they happy?

I hope I am relating to your issues a little bit; i am mostly writing from inside my own head/heart. Here is the link to my previous article responding to Tomas. ... ns+mammals

Did I say it is nice to find you writing here? It is nice you've joined us. Thanks!! Be well, and better and better than well.


PostPosted: 24 May 2006
by sanvean
Thank you, Joel.

Why I left the BKWSU

PostPosted: 26 May 2006
by khormozian
Om Shanti everyone
I am very interested to know from ex-BKs (also BKs and PBKs, if I can beg your indulgence for non-ex-BKs to post in this part of the forum) what aspect of knowledge or possibly a meditation experience or something else caused you to consider BK philosophy to be the truth.

Also for ex-BKs and PBKs, what would you say was the biggest trigger for you to realize that this philosophy was no longer fulfilling for you?

If anyone is interested, before Gyan, I would have considered myself to be an atheist. Before that, I went through several years of studying other religions and I would always end up disillusioned because none of them gave a satisfactory answer to my questions, including "How could God be all-powerful, all-knowing, the creator of everything and yet still not be responsible for bringing evil into the world?".

On the first day of the seven-day course, when I was told that I am an eternal peaceful soul, I practically jumped out of my seat. "You mean I've been around forever? God did not create me?". That, coupled with the realization that God is bound by the drama and that He doesn't/cannot perform actions which violate the Law of Karma, was what drew me in.

Regards, Kurosh

Re: What first attracted you to Gyan and caused you to leave

PostPosted: 29 May 2006
by zhukov
khormozian wrote:If anyone is interested, before Gyan, I would have considered myself to be an atheist. Before that, I went through several years of studying other religions and I would always end up disillusioned because none of them gave a satisfactory answer to my questions, including "How could God be all-powerful, all-knowing, the creator of everything and yet still not be responsible for bringing evil into the world?".

On the first day of the seven-day course, when I was told that I am an eternal peaceful soul, I practically jumped out of my seat. "You mean I've been around forever? God did not create me?". That, coupled with the realization that God is bound by the drama and that He doesn't/cannot perform actions which violate the Law of Karma, was what drew me in.

Hello khormozian :)

^^This appealed idea to me very much intellectually as well, in the beginning. Previously I also always considered myself if not an atheist, then that good ol' fence-sitter, the agnostic lol. I was drawn to the BKs after a misdiagnosis of a physical condition as a mental one, the upshot being that I was told if I did not sort my head out, I would never sit again :roll: They were recommended to me by the teacher of a yo chi class I was doing before the injury.

However, I wasn't able to make the 'leap of faith' required to actually believe, and was advised to leave after I confided that I felt the self-brainwashing wasn't working. So now I've returned to 'reality' so to speak :P.

But I mean that more literally...since I've been reading about Zen & mindfulness which encourages the observance of reality as it is, most importantly without judgement of your own thoughts/feelings rather than proscribing them as 'bad' and having to constantly 'wallpaper' over them with 'good' input/knowledge, lest your stage be compromised. I agree that those who have not become habitual negative thinkers (ie most people) would probably not find much to trouble them about the BK instruction, at least intially.

BUT if all your time is spent counteracting so-called 'negative' or 'forbidden' thoughts/feelings (if these make up much of your learned consciousness) with the BK dogma, then that 'knowledge' ceases to mean very much and you're stuck in an attitude of 'combatting' them, instead of cultivating a non-judgemental watchfulness where they can eventually evaporate. At least that's the theory as I understand it. And its even worked a few times for me :wink:

From distate to attraction

PostPosted: 29 May 2006
by aimée
For me, it seems rather strange but when I was first told about God, I had nearly a reaction of distaste. I will always remember that lesson. Being brought up in a solid atheist French environment, where God is nearly considered as a swear word, or some sort of disease for the weak people.

I thought that maybe I could get what I wanted from the center (very attractive place, and I liked the idea of meditation), and put their God aside. But as I was back home on the road, I had a very beautiful feeling of gratitude, and I new that was it,I was not going to be alone any more. So was that a bit of magic spell on me?

The same for the idea of The Cycle, I found really weird at the beginning, especially because the new picture of The Cycle is quite badly painted and looks very naive. I put aside this concept for quite a while. Now I think this is so beautifully well done a perfect drama, it is amazingly conceived and I cannot see any argument now against it.

When I discovered the Advanced Knowledge, again, the setting could not possibly be worse. I was told bluntly, so much Gyan to give me a real shake, but I was strangely extremely calm, and ready to accept anything, and something I could not have imagined before. Again the magic dust.

I think I am very naive and at that time, before becoming PBK, still in the BK world, I was very very sad, trying desesperately to fit in with the BK system, to be a good student and to be accepted by all. I made my best to hide in a corner of my heart the wrong feeling I had. There is a wrong hierarchy, a system that corresponds more to Bhakti than what Baba directs in the Murlis. When I observed it among the souls in the center, especially among the hierarchy, I thought that was my ego that made me too critical!

But when I was chucked out, I felt I had recovered my freedom. is not it silly to have an extraordinary teacher (you cannot do better than God himself!), being most of the time ignored, and everyone giving their three shillings opinions, and worse, people loving it and asking for more, and even worse, remembering myself being exactly like that ...

PostPosted: 07 Jun 2006
by bansy
Hi Sanvean,

Welcome back to the forum.

One of the very things the BKs first told me was that whether as a BK or not, each soul has to finish off their Bhakti (devotion) activities to the world//life and even to God. That is, however hard they would try to be a BK or not, unless you're completely surrendered and convert your life to serving the Yagya completely, you're still in devotion. Thus there are actually very few fully surrendered souls in the BK organisation.

So over time, a soul would still have interactions with worldy things, and in doing so, with some of The Knowledge the BKs offered, was to go about your lokik life as best as you can and as honest and pure as possible. Time and time again in Murlis it is mentioned that no-one is yet pure in this world. What I feel you've had in the past 11 years is the giving of a lot of happiness and love to others, but you yourself have not gotten the love back. Or you haven't realised it. But I am sure others love you as much as you love them.

And I don't think God is punishing you, the BKs are a support organisation that was for you at the time you needed it. But God will see that you have care and warmth for others, not discard or abandon them when those souls need you in their lives as much as you need them. Surely then, Sanvean you are one of God's lovely children, with or without the BK support.

PostPosted: 09 Jun 2006
by sanvean
Hi Bansy

I think you are right. It´s hard to accept love. It´s hard for me to be the lovely child again. And this is the heart of my suffering. When I left Raja Yoga I remeber that a Sister said this for me "you aren´t leaving God", but I couldn't have this experience. I was divorced from God, but I still love him ...

Beyond BK

PostPosted: 09 Dec 2006
by howiemac
Hi folks

once upon a time I was a human being. Then I became a BK, and lost the human part (actually I did not, but they tried very hard to help me lose it ...). Then I rebelled, and became labelled as an ex-BK - I did complain about this label, but with hindsight it was accurate, as I was still attached to BK things, albeit from a rebellious standpoint, rather than the blindly obedient stance required in BK life. Still my thoughts revolved too often around the BKs and their strange beliefs and habits ... I went to Mexico and a psychic showed me The Devil from her tarot pack and said "you have been involved with a religious sect that is not right for you, and you now think you have left it behind, but actually you are still involved, even though you don't realise ... "

The Devil symbolises bondage (chains), and spirituality perverted (the upside down pentacle).

I had an epiphany, and lost all interest in BK matters. I have returned to this forum to make this post, at the suggestion of another former BK, to say goodbye and thanks to all those here on this forum and site, and on the old XBKchat forum, who have helped me and others through the detox stage - you know who you are. And thanks also to those who are engaged in countering the BK propaganda offensive (and offensive it truly is ...)

I just want to say that there is life beyond BK serfdom, and that that life is one of freedom and wonderful potential. I still practice Yoga, but not the BK Yoga - I link with my higher self, not with other beings - this appears to me as a great step forward. Through becoming one with our higher, or true, self, we become one with all beings. We don't need any middleman, or middle-woman ...

I did gain a lot from the exposure to Indian philosophy through the BK involvement, and the experience was, for me, on balance, a positive one. But I would not recommend the BKWSU to anyone else. I see them as a mind controlling cult who have lost their way, and are best avoided. That said, there are many fine people within the BKs who I still have a loving regard for, but this is despite their BK connection, and not because of it.

So, thank you

love and light :)

Ian (howiemac)

PostPosted: 09 Dec 2006
by bansy
Hi Howiemac,

Sincerely wishing you a lot of success and happiness in whatever you do and go. Have a really nice life.


PostPosted: 09 Dec 2006
by john
Yeah Howiemac all the best!

Glad you've resolved inner issues and feel more comfortable. It's a strange game.

Stay Happy


PostPosted: 10 Dec 2006
by Mr Green
All the best and well done for finding peace.


PostPosted: 10 Dec 2006
by proy
Hi Ian,

Many, many warm and friendly congratulations on your acheiving your full freedom. :lol:. May it be an inspiration and example to the rest of us that there really is a rich, rewarding and fulfilling life to be lived post BK-ism. :wink:. What is the address of that Mexican psychic? ( Only Kidding).

See you after Xmas.


Why I left the BKWSU

PostPosted: 25 Mar 2007
by proy
ex-l wrote:Is there another topic for "Why I left the BKWSU?". I left because I really wanted to make a difference for the world, not sit around in stupid service meeting discussing ways of self-advertising and I had no interest in investing myself in becoming a career Brahmin by submitting to the SS.

I got sick of the hypocrisy, the stupidity, the repressed lesbian lovers, the domestic tiffs and lost all respect for the Seniors. I could be specific but I complain too much. On a personal level I quite liked the Seniors and felt compassion for them stuck in their roles but I could not look up to them for going along with it. At that time it was pretty rare for BKs to leave and it took effort.


No, BKs, it is not as simple as being pulled away by Maya or falling to lust. There is much more to life than you think.

Good Idea ex-l.

I firstly left because of the bullying and the hypocrisy. The small scale stuff that goes on every day in the centres. People pretending to be nice and smiling, while you know they are fuming with anger inside. People being control freaks and ordering me around all the time. Finding myself trying to please people by thinking in the approved fashion, or rather not thinking, but accepting the so called paradoxes in Gyan. It was only later that I admitted to myself that they were not paradoxes but glaring inconsistencies. That the whole of Gyan just did not add up, and that I did not believe it at all anymore.

Then I heard some stuff privately about financial abuse, and bully boy tactics on the Wiki. Then I came back to reading this forum regularly, but with different eyes, the scales had fallen. I saw that many people had the same experience as me. Only when I told other ex-BKs that I know in person did I realise that the hypocrisy, betrayal, and bullying is commonplace. It is institutionalised bullying and control freakery. I realised eventually that the BKWSU is not at all what I would recognise as a spiritual organisation, but that its main aims and motives are fame and money.

Then I got on to the realisation that I had been psychically abused, which I have documented elsewhere. There are still individual BKs I know and like, but they are poor lost souls really. Is the original Yoga still in there somewhere? I do not know, and I do not meditate at all now because I want to steer well clear of whatever spooks they are collaborating with. Basically I see the BKWSU as the Kirpalani family business, still run by Lehkraj and the Seniors, and doing very well too, as a business, but I did not join to get a job, I joined to get enlightened. :oops:

we've been used

PostPosted: 25 Mar 2007
by alladin
proy wrote:bullying and the hypocrisy, pretending, control freaks and ordering me around all the time, inconsistencies. It is institutionalised bullying and control freakery. as a business, but I did not join to get a job, I joined to get enlightened

I totally agree, what more can be said? A lot, but this is the essence.

Let me add the politics. If wanted to become a professional politician, either for money or an ideal, I knew and I still know which way to go. If I want to commit myself to changing the world, there are more respected, respectable, interesting and serious org, such as GREENPEACE or AMNESTY International and many more with whom one can cooperate as a volunteer and probably not be ashamed of it doing it ever nor end up being betrayed. Also, with these orgs, things are clear from the start. I have a friend that started out volunteering for Amnesty and as her dedication and skills were appreciated, she got a job there, maybe will work herself up in a transparent way.

With the BKs, everything is run through lies and manipulation. The way they get donations and free labour, a majority of slaves and few people making $ as top managers or consultants, pretending to be spiritual leaders.

BKs despise and criticize any other group and claim to be very clean and pure, not charging for courses, etc ... Well, other professionals in self development, psychology, lecturers, etc., charge for their seminars but at least pay their staff and for their students. So, if one is into getting a job, he knows the fees and what he will achieve, and get a certificate for attending and passing. We only get the certificate for being fools and having ben used. :x