Mention about ex-BKs in Murlis

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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arjun

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Mention about ex-BKs in Murlis

Post26 Mar 2007

Omshanti. I remember some members had on some occassions asked if there was any mention about ex-BKs in the Murlis. I have come across a big paragraph about ex-BKs in a recent revised Sakar Murli dated 14.3.07 published by the BKs and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba and the translation has been done by a PBK.

"Toh Baba kahtey hain Brahma dwara sthaapanaa karaataa hoon. Rajyog sikhlaataa hoon. Agar koi nay Brahma ka haath choda toh goya Shiv ko bhi choda. Vichaar kiya jaataa hai falaaney nay nay choda kyon? Naseebdaar ban-ney kay badley badnaseeb kyon baney ho? Tum roothey kis say? Behnon say roothey hongey. Tum jo itnaa varsa leney vaaley thay fir kya hua! Kya sikhlaaney vaaley Baap nay tumko kuch kaha jo padhaai chod dee aur badnaseeb ban gaye! Baba bhi pooch saktey hain – tumney Rajyog seekhnaa kyon choda! Tum bhi aashcharyavat Baba ka bananti, kathanti, bhaganti may aa gaye. Apni takdeer ko lakeer lagaa dee. Samay dekh unko likhna chaahiye. Ho sakta hai- patra padhney say fir jag jaaye. Girtey huay ko bachaanaa hota hai. Doobney say kisko bachaaya jaata hai toh aafreen detey hain. Yah bhi doobney say bachaana hai. Gyaan kee hee baatein hain. Likhnaa chaahiye – tumnay khivaiyya ka haath choda hai toh doob marengey. Taaru (tairney vaaley) log apnee jaan jokhim may rakh doosron ko bachaatey hain. Koi poora taaru nahee hota hai toh khud bhi gum ho jaataa hai. Tum bhi koi ko doobtaa hua dekhtey ho toh 10-20 chitthiyaan likho, yah koi insult nahee hai. Tumnay itnaa samay haath pakdaa, auron ko bhi samjhaayaa fir tum kaisey doobtey ho. Tum prem say likho. Behenji, tum toh Rajyog seekh paar jaaney vaali thi – ab tum doob rahee ho. Taras padtaa hai toh bichaarey ko bachaavein. Fir koi bachtaa hai va nahee – yah toh hui unki takdeer."

"So Baba says – I cause establishment through Brahma. I teach Rajyog. If anyone leaves the hand of Brahma, then it is as if he has left the hand of ShivBaba also. It is thought that why did a particular person leave? Why did you become unfortunate instead of becoming fortunate? Who are you displeased with? You must have been displeased with the Sisters. You were going to obtain so much inheritance, then what happened? Did the Father who was teaching you say anything to you that you left the studies and became unfortunate? Baba can also ask – Why did you stop learning Rajyog? You too surprisingly became Baba’s child, narrated, and then ran away. You have spoilt your fortune. You must look out for an opportune moment and write to them. It may be possible that after reading your letter they wake up. One must save someone who is falling. If someone is saved from drowning, then he gives blessings. This is also like saving a drowning person. These are matters of knowledge only. One must write – You have left the hands of the sailor; so you would drown and die. The swimmers put their lives at risk and save others. If someone is not a good swimmer, the he himself may also vanish (i.e. drown). If you also find anyone drowning, then write 10-20 letters; this is not a matter of insult. You held the hand for so long, you even explained to others; then how come you are drowning? Write affectionately. Dear Sister, you were going to learn Rajyog and sail across – now you are drowning. One feels pity that we should save the poor person. Then, someone gets saved or not – depends on his/her luck."

I know that all the above lines may not be liked by the ex-BKs who are members here, but from the point of view of the BKs, this Murli should definitely inspire them to become members of this forum and exchange views with the ex-BKs or PBKs. Although the senior or junior BK Sisters may refrain the BKs from joining this forum, Baba has clearly directed the BKs to write to the ex-BKs not once or twice but 10-20 times and that too affectionately. So, come on Brothers and Sisters, let us sail together.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

bansy

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Post26 Mar 2007

Dear Arjunbhai

There is some confusion sometimes in the pronouns used in Murlis. This is one of them. (I checked the BK version and it is similar).

For example, "You too surprisingly became Baba’s child, narrated, and then ran away. " In this sentence , the "you" is for those who left the BKs but how can an ex-BK be listening or reading this if they do not attend class or have access to the Murlis/Vanis ? But the sentences before this and after this , the "you" could relate to either the BK listening to the Murli or the ex-BK who gets access to the Murli, depending on the viewpoint.

Of course every BK was an ex-BK if you were to wind the clock back or forward.

So I am not sure if the entire paragraph corresponds to ex-BKs, but rather to BKs who have become lazy and are not doing any service to themselves or the Yagya, and hence they have sort of "ran away". So if a BK sees a fellow student BK having hardship, they should go to their aid.


However, I understand you point raised, and this comes later in the paragraph where "Write affectionately. Dear Sister, you were going to learn Rajyog and sail across – now you are drowning. One feels pity that we should save the poor person. Then, someone gets saved or not – depends on his/her luck." and in this case, BKs should come forward and explain because there are folks in this forum who have said they are in the middle of an in-BKWSU-out-of-BKWSU condition.

Regards
Bansy
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arjun

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Post26 Mar 2007

Sister Bansy,

Omshanti. The line that you have quoted, i.e. "You too surprisingly became Baba’s child, narrated, and then ran away." should be read along with the previous sentence, in which Baba says that 'Baba can also ask'. So, most probably the above line along with some of the previous lines have been spoken in anticipation of a situation where an ex-BK happens to meet Baba.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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Mr Green

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Post26 Mar 2007

Nice though your sentiments are Arjun, this is precisely the type of practise that is particularly distasteful to ex-members.

When I first left, I had numerous BKs ringing me and emailing me trying to save me from the jaws of Maya.

But the truth is, and I don't expect you or any BK to accept this, mostly those who leave feel it is they who have progressed and can see that the faith of BKs is actually a restriction in spiritual advancement.

I have told the BK managers that if they attempt to contact me apart from financial renumeration, they will regret it :lol:.
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arjun

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Post26 Mar 2007

Mr.Green wrote:Nice thought your sentiments are Arjun. This is precisely the type of practise that is particularly distasteful to ex-members. When I first left, I had numerous BKs ringing me and emailing me trying to save me from the jaws of Maya but the truth is, and I don't expect you or any BK to accept this, mostly those who leave feel it is they who have progressed and can see that the faith of BKs is actually a restriction in spiritual advancement

Mr. Green, thanks for those kind words.

I agree that many souls who have not become a BK/PBK or may have left BK/PBK path may be progressing better than many of the BKs/PBKs. Dharana or soul-consciousness is not the exclusive domain of BKs/PBKs. Even Baba has accepted this in one of the revised Sakar Murlis published by the BKs:

"Religious minded jo bhi hain, vah samajhtey hain ki ham aatma hain, deh nahee hain."

"All those who are religious minded, feel that they are souls, they are not bodies."

(revised Sakar Murli dated 28.2.07, pg.1 published by BKs in Hindi and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)

Wishing everyone best of luck in the spiritual field,
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Re: mention about XBKs in Murlis

Post26 Mar 2007

arjun wrote:You must look out for an opportune moment and write to them. It may be possible that after reading your letter they wake up ... If you also find anyone drowning, then write 10-20 letters; this is not a matter of insult.

No, you read it the wrong way around Mr Green. It is us that should write to them. Of course, in this modern world, we have modern problems as jannisder and others have founded out ...
    Baba does say, "write a letter" because if you write an email, the BKs will just block your address or domain from their servers!
This is happening all around the world. So, yes, folks; if you have 5 minutes write to your local Brahma-kumaris Raja Yoga center and ask the center-folk to answer some of the questions that have arisen on this forum. Be careful as you approach them, they may be drowing and pull you under with them.
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alladin

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Did they take us for kleenex?

Post27 Mar 2007

I also read it the other way around; Sisters displease students who therefore leave and should write to the Sisters who are drowning so they can awaken and humbly acknowledge their mistakes. This is how you mend relationships, through dialogue.

This time I am not joking. I really understood it that way! I'll fetch the relevant Sakar and check it out. I never left officially and I still practise most of the disciplines so, luckily, no one dared prompting me to go to the center more often (my nearest center closed down anyway!). But I got the impression that once you are a grown up BK, hardly anybody except your close friends, contacts you to see if you are OK, or invites you to a program, unless they need some help.

Although sustenance is supposed to be a teachers' role, which grants them privileges and fame, join special meetings, etc ... when it comes to fulfilling responsibilities such as sustaining, they forget you. It's your part in Drama. Your karma ... They know it's risky and tiring to deal with mature BKs who took distance. They would have to face criticism, give and receive explanations, discussions and so on. Easier to go out and fish some new student, with the help of the pomp and show of new façade and courses. We are just numbers, in a consumistic society, replacing is easier and cheaper than repairing. Use and throw away consciousness.

In any case, what'd be the use of more indoctrination? Baba and Drama are giving us the opportunity to heal and fix our lives better through this Forum. With a little help from my friends!!
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arjun

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Post27 Mar 2007

alladin wrote:I'll fetch the relevant Sakar and check it out.

Yes, that would be very nice of you and also lend authenticity to the English translation done by a PBK.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

bansy

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Post27 Mar 2007

This example goes to prove that whoever listens/reads a Murli, it will always be correct for them from their own perspective. Whether you are a senior, an ex-BK, a PBK, etc. I think this is how a Murli/Vani should be read. If Baba is talking to you, then it is between you and Him. How many times do we often find some Murli point strikes you, but it does not necessarily strike someone else even the soul who is sitting next to you. What is the need for Baba to talk about third parties, except in the case where some historical or myths and legends are given. Whatever he says is for the listener only. That is what I would define as the Ocean, and the ability to have a one-to-many relationship.

That is why, in another thread, I am still confused if Murlis are read in the past or present because the pronouns (I, you, he, she, we etc) can just get all mixed up in the current or in the past. Sometimes you find that a Murli point hits the right button because it applies to your situation right now at that point in time, then later that same Murli point just not seem as good as it did last time.

I wonder if Murlis need to be so complicated. And so in this thread, who is the "you" in each of the sentences. Thus the churning. However, I am not going to go into that churning of who the "you" is in the paragraph, however the gist of from Arjunbhai is simply that Seniors who are reading this Murli, where somewhere in it the usage of "you" applies to the Seniors, that it is the Seniors that should be aware the need to serve those who are drowning, rather than by ignorance and leave souls drowning.

However, at the same time, what Baba is in essence doing as a whole is trying to collect the family together in unity. After all, if you saw your lokik Sister falling into the pool, would you not stretch out an arm, or would you just leave it to karma. The lokik Sister in the pool also needs to accept the hand that is stretched out to her. As in lokik, as in alokik too.
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andrey

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Post28 Mar 2007

Easier to go out and fish some new student, with the help of the pomp and show of new façade and courses. We are just numbers, in a consumistic society, replacing is easier and cheaper than repairing. Use and throw away consciousness.

It is even easier for God to create a new world than repair the old one.
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bro neo

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Post19 Apr 2007

arjun wrote:It is thought that why did a particular person leave? Why did you become unfortunate instead of becoming fortunate?

It is clear if you spin The Cycle that the reason why a soul leaves is because of their status (soul rank) and, their status is making them play the appropriate roles in the Drama.
Who are you displeased with? You must have been displeased with the Sisters.

According to Gyan there is only one real reason for this displeasure. Body Conciousness. How foolish of 'them'.
You were going to obtain so much inheritance, then what happened?

This is to emphasize to the BKs listening to the Murli, that it is total ludicrous for anyone to give up zillions of $, thousands of years in paradise and the most divine love attainable, for what? It is a point to reinforce Gyans teaching, that by making effort, you get all these 'supposed' rewards. Rewards that you get, because Baba says you get them. Have faith. Just spin The Cycle if you need more faith.
Did the Father who was teaching you say anything to you that you left the studies and became unfortunate?

Yes BK's are fortunate and ex BKs have stupidly left the treasures of infinity and eternity. Want proof? Remember the Sakar Murli point, "If anyone asks "How do you know this?" You just tell them, "Baba says so.""
Baba can also ask – Why did you stop learning Rajyog? You too surprisingly became Baba's child, narrated, and then ran away. You have spoilt your fortune.

Baba can have Yoga with anyone he wants, they of course don't need to respond. Here he is communicating with the ones who have left Gyan. He is also exemplifying to the BKs about his absolute assertive discrimination of what is right and wrong.
You must look out for an opportune moment and write to them. It may be possible that after reading your letter they wake up. One must save someone who is falling. If someone is saved from drowning, then he gives blessings. This is also like saving a drowning person. These are matters of knowledge only. One must write – You have left the hands of the sailor; so you would drown and die. The swimmers put their lives at risk and save others. If someone is not a good swimmer, the he himself may also vanish (i.e. drown). If you also find anyone drowning, then write 10-20 letters; this is not a matter of insult. You held the hand for so long, you even explained to others; then how come you are drowning? Write affectionately. Dear Sister, you were going to learn Rajyog and sail across – now you are drowning. One feels pity that we should save the poor person. Then, someone gets saved or not – depends on his/her luck."

Luck indeed. Ha ha ha, Baba is so funny, he knows it is Drama and yet he still plays with the children and calls it luck. This is to make his children effort makers. His part is also to motivate us.

Also this is very intelligent, the Yukti he explains. In an interaction between 2 people the person with the stronger sense of reality is the one who usually controls things. He asserts his BKs to not shake in their philosophy of the world and to go to the "poor person" and "save" them. The "poor person" undoubtedly was just pulled away by the lures of Maya, not because of some shift in perspective about reality, in fact don’t even think that.

Just say, "Look dumbass. I love you, so get back on board so you don't loose the unlimited fortune I helped you get and by me saving you, AGAIN, you can serve me in the Golden Age by being my cook or something. In the mean time I can feel great about how pathetic and retarded a worker soul like you is as I, the greatest soul in the universe, at least when it comes to me and you, "saves" you."
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ex-l

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Post19 Apr 2007

andrey wrote:It is even easier for God to create a new world than repair the old one.

This command is for the geeks on the forum;
    $god: rm -rf ./Creation
Nice work if you can get it ... and you are not one of the 6 Billion that are going to be "ground like mustard seeds".

I don't believe it. I do not believe these spooks have root access. As far as I can see, they are just working in their own home directory and attempting to crack the system in order change permission on other people's data and executables. They are low grade hackers.

Andre,all the ex-bks are going to keep you here suffering for as long as we can by not believing it and not letting The Cycle finish. And trust me, we are stubborn and have good pain thresholds. It is just faith based on some manic psychosis that Lekhraj Kirpalani had in 193 something. Sadly, too much has come out to prove that the whole thing is based on fiction.

When the BK possessing spirits are willing to start being serious with me, I will be serious with him.
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arjun

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Re: Mention about ex-BKs in Murlis

Post30 Mar 2008

Quote from the BK Section for record purpose:

Q.No.AV-23: Many children who had faith in Baba (nishchaybuddhi) left even after following (the path of knowledge) for 4-5 years; why this wave/tendency? How can we end this wave/tendency? (Avyakt Vani dated 14.03.82, pg.294 & 295, first edition)
Ans: The special reason for their departure is that they remain very busy in service, but they lose the balance of service and self. So, one of the reasons for the nice children who stop (making efforts) is this and secondly they have any particular sanskar in which they are weak since the beginning, but they hide it, keep fighting with themselves. They do not narrate their weakness clearly to BapDada or the nimit souls and do not end it. Because of hiding it, that disease keeps assuming a fierce form internally and one does not experience progress. Then they become disheartened and leave. Third reason is that their sanskars do not match with each other. There is a clash of sanskars.

Well, in order to end this wave/tendency, on the one hand full attention is required on self along with service. Secondly, whoever comes, they should be very clear in front of BapDada or the nimit souls. If you feel even a little in service that it is becoming too much, then first one should think about the means of self-progress and also express one’s views before the nimit souls. The attention of the newcomers should be drawn towards these aspects. One should check one’s sanskars since the beginning itself. If one’s sanskar clashes with someone, then it is better to maintain a distance from him/her. Under the circumstances where clash of sanskars takes place, it is better to separate (from that soul).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Note: The above Q&A has been published by BKs in Hindi and the English translation has been done by a PBK)


Since the above Q&A has been published by the BKs at the end of an Avyakt Vani, one is given to believe that it was actually asked to BapDada and answered by Avyakt BapDada. But if this Q&A like many other such Q&A published in the Avyakt Vani compilations have been framed by BKs then it is quite a serious issue.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

sarah

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Re: Mention about ex-BKs in Murlis

Post04 Apr 2008

arjun wrote:Why did you become unfortunate instead of becoming fortunate? Did the Father who was teaching you say anything to you that you left the studies and became unfortunate?

I am sorry but this is exactly the sort of thing that just makes me so angry and despondant. I am looking out the window now. I can see two women, back from the shops, chatting away on the doorstep. I can see a man sitting on his favourite bench under a tree in his garden, and I can see two children still on Easter holiday kicking a ball about. They are all so unfortunate. How can they not be? They do not even know Brahmin life. Never even heard of it. How could they? How could they permeate something so exclusive and inclusive at the same time? How could they ever get the chance to be fortunate? Are they standing around worrying about the end of the world, whether they have remembered Baba enough during the day, whether or not they are leading others to Baba? No, they are not. They are free and happy and simple, and this to me is true fortune.

All the while the Murli is spoken through a human, translated by a human, interpreted by us humans and understood in our own way, how can we ever really take it as anything other than a collection of interesting ideas that would form an pleasant discussion, if we chose to discuss them? Hardly a blueprint for life. Every person out there who has not even heard of the BK is an ex-BK, and every one out there who probably went to one meeting but did not follow it up, is an ex BK. This added to the amount who gave it quite a go for a bit and then left are not the only ex-BKs. That is a lot of unfortunate people, is not it? Sorry, but I remember now why I used to feel so unsettled every morning after the Murli. It really is just a load of loony tunes to me. I resent the suggestion that current BKs might find it an interesting piece of writing in their service to deal with ex-BKs. That is a bit patronising really.

I think that it is the minority who still live in looney tunesville who are the unfortunate ones.
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Mr Green

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Re: Mention about ex-BKs in Murlis

Post04 Apr 2008

Mention about ex-bks in Murli,

"**** off you trouble making scum bag wankers, achaa, I want to spank your bottoms, achaa".
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