Hypnosis and the BKWSU

It is tough for me to read when so many think that it is not my Shiv Baba speaking, and think that they are being hypnotised, when I personally don't believe that. But I feel it's important for those who identify with being BKs to be heard and seen here.

yudhishtira, why is it tough? It is either true or not, either you believe it to be true or not. If you decide to make the pursuit of truth your companion then surely with that naturely comes God, if you believe God is truth.

To have your faith remain intact amongst all the nay-sayers is strong faith.

Why is it tough? It is either true or not, either you believe it to be true or not. If you decide to make the pursuit of truth your companion then surely with that naturely comes God, if you believe God is truth. To have your faith remain intact amongst all the nay-sayers is strong faith.

Jeez, can we have some warning when posts are spontaneously surgically removed and regrafted all over the joint! its very hard to keep up here sometimes ... (i.e. this post started life in the BK forum).

To answer your question John, its tough because I aint perfect yet and so I still have attachment. To my beliefs, to Shiv Baba, to the Brahmin family and to you guys. It sometimes feels like being in the middle of a family breakup where you are trying to stay positive to all parties; and believe me, Ive had enough of that with my own family to like the experience ... Actually, I feel my faith only becoming more defined and stronger by being here, but sometimes I feel frustrated because I cant communicate it in a way which folks who have taken to operating on an intellectual level only would understand. I feel Shiv Baba in my life and my heart every day. Thats a reality to me. Its what keeps me going.

but sometimes I feel frustrated because I cant communicate it in a way which folks who have taken to operating on an intellectual level only would understand. I feel Shiv Baba in my life and my heart every day. Thats a reality to me. Its what keeps me going.

I think things need to be communicated on an intellectual level, otherwise it is just one's own experience, feelings, beliefs, intuitions. To be able to express these in an intellectual way brings uniformity and community.

The problem with the BK org as I see it is, that they have lied and misled and so trust amongst the faithful could be erroded, and those that dislike the BKs have strong ammunition against them. In short, they've shot themselves in the foot.

Why don't they come clean? Well I guess we wont really know until they do. To me they are playing a dangerous and potentially explosive game, what happens when people find out they were supposed to be representing God and The Knowledge, yet they were cheating and denying others the chance of findng out the truth?

Surely some heads are gonna roll ...

A less contemporary perspective:

"... in both trance and hypnosis the experiencing individual's Conscious Will is not functioning—which is a most dangerous and disastrous activity—to anyone—who permits it to take place in his mind and body.

There is—no—Conscious Mastery or Dominion—in trance or hypnotic practices, and they are—most—uncertain and dangerous—to the Soul Growth—of the one who permits such practice."

Unveiled Mysteries, by Godfré Ray King [1934], at sacred-texts.com

Power of Purity + Power of Concentration = Silence Power.

Generally we believe that power of concentration is equivalent to power of silence. So many hypnotists claim that we can solve most of psychological problems through hypnotism & we can achieve peace (silence). But through hypnotism we can achieve peace for short time period & not everlasting peace.

Our practice of RajYoga meditation is similar to hypnotism. The success of hypnotism depends on the post hypnotic suggestions given by the hypnotist. So the deepness of inner peace, we can achieve in hypnotism, depends on:

1) depth of hypnotist's knowledge about proper techniques to achiveve peace &
2) suggestions given by that hypnotist in hypnotism (depending on his knowledge about peace & silence.

But a hypnotist is not God & like God he has not achieved the stage of everlasting peace &, like God, he doesn't have complete knowledge about techniques to achieve everlasting peace.

So God is the greatest hypnotist in the world. And fortunately He has incarnated on the earth in the Confluence Age. Through the practice of RajYoga meditation we are being hypnotised by Him. Being Ocean of Peace with complete knowledge about techniques to achieve everlasting peace only God can hypnotise us (through RajYoga) to achieve complete peace.

God not only increases our concentration through RajYoga, but he combines purity with concentration. So we can achieve everlasting peace in RajYoga meditation as, according to Murlis, purity is the mother of happiness & peace. Thus complete peace cannot be derived through concentration in hypnotism without purity and as a hypnotist is not ever pure like God, we cannot experience complete peace through hypnotism. Even impure thoughts of that hypnotist (during hypnotism) will disturb & irritate us, instead of experiencing peace.

Thus to increase power of silence, only concentration power will not work. Power of concentration must be combined with purity to increase silence power.

Thanks.

Perhaps you'll be inspired to try and define the meaning you have of the word 'power' you use in this post?

Ta x P

If you want to use silence power to change the world, don't.

Hear silence, listen to it, feel it, be it, emerge it as the environment around you, as your inner being but sending it to others/another may not be within the realms of correct usage. In other words, let nature do the work. For the majority, it may be said that, to use silence towards others may be like saying, "baby's got a gun". Perhaps we need to learn a whole load of other things first, which may lead us to the conclusion outlined above.

We ARE silence. We only ever hear sound through the corporeal ears, or from the chattering of the mind. Sound is just vibrations. It is our ears which creates the illusion of sound and how we interpret it. So, we don't have to affect/influence things as much as we may think, we just need to be in a natural state of being.

Power of silence is the gift we receive through RajYoga meditation, which is never possible by hypnotism. But we cannot degrade hypnosis. As a utility program, we can apply hypnotic suggestions in RajYoga meditation.

In information technology, utility programs (like virus detectors) are not considered as major functions of the operating system of computer (OS). But they increase the efficiency of the OS. In the same way, though we need not be a hypnotist to be a successful RajYogi, if we practise hypnotism in RajYoga meditation just on experimental basis, we will achieve more success. Thus just like a utility program, hypnotic suggestions can increase the efficiency of RajYoga meditation.

For example, if a RajYogi is experiencing silence power during RajYoga meditation & at the same time if he practices hypnosis, he will suddenly get into a deep hypnotic sleep. And ... and this hypnotic sleep (achieved by hypnotic methods) becomes combined with silence power (achieved through RajYoga) to have the 'unique' feeling ... feeling of seedform stage (Beejrup Avastha).

As I tend to meditate on my own, does that mean I am hypnotising myself without being aware of it?

As I tend to meditate on my own, does that mean I am hypnotising myself without being aware of it?

With all acuity and kindness ... possibly. It is amazing what the mind can do to itself and the body.

Turn on,
tune in,
drop out

Short of the SPARC Wing of the BKWSU inventing a 'Yoga-ometer', how can we tell what anyone is doing when they meditate ... and what does the leadership of the BKWSU care?

Sit down,
shut up,
keep up corporate face and donate money regularly.

So, when was the last time the leadership of BKWSU made a serious test and investigation of the Yoga practises of its followers and how did they do it? Asking to see people's charts? That is hardly scientific or yogi ... we should devise some system to test it.

This issue of meditation versus hypnosis is one that only came up relative recently and certainly requires more investigation. In my opinion, all the 'BK diffusion label" meditations that have arisen recently stumble darkly into realms that are awfully similar to hypnosis. It should be studied more.

new-world makes a good, and possibly very valid addition to this discussion. Which BKs will be brave enough to examine and explore this?

In my opinion, all the 'BK diffusion label" meditations that have arisen recently stumble darkly into realms that are awfully similar to hypnosis. It

This could explain why I developed gradual disinterest in new entry meditation commentaries. I still keep some of the old simple ones that were going around in the beginning. Later, I started to pick up some eerie feeling. Or maybe I got it all wrong, or I am oversensitive, or paranoid!

You are right to say that Yoga is seldom discussed. I think BKs get into a rut with it and very few are actually having soul-conscious connection with Shiva Baba.

How do you define hypnosis?

My experience of meditation is; when it is any good, that there is a deep experience of silence, and also of fullness, power and love. Pain and unhappiness are lifted and there is a feeling of stillness.

If you define hypnosis as an externally imposed superficial experience, I do not think mine would match with that. Otherwise, define it how you will, it works for me!

If you define hypnosis as an externally imposed superficial experience; I do not think [my experience of meditation] would match with that. Otherwise; define it how you will, it works for me!

This definition does not have much to do with hypnosis as it is taught and practiced.

Hypnosis is essentially consensual. The hypnotist enables the person to discover something within themselves, and to express it.

Trance is ubiquitous. Everyone is in trance states throughout the day, absorbed in certain details of experience, excluding others. In a state of hypnosis people can use their attention in novel ways.

This definition does not have much to do with hypnosis as it is taught and practiced. Hypnosis is essentially consensual. The hypnotist enables the person to discover something within themselves, and to express it.

But from what ex-l was saying earlier; it can be self-imposed hypnosis ...

I would accept that if I had been taught a specific technique, or series of words to meditate, that were known by the "hypnotist" to bring about such a state.

However, my own practise varies pretty much every time I meditate. Sometimes I just need to become quiet and say, "Baba", and immediately I feel a powerful, almost physical pull in the centre of the forehead, and the experience of power and light. I do not visualise anything or say any words to myself. Its more like turning on a light.

But from what ex-l was saying earlier; it can be self-imposed hypnosis ... I would accept that if I had been taught a specific technique, or series of words to meditate, that were known by the "hypnotist" to bring about such a state.

My experience is limited here to hypnotic "light trance work" and so I am cautious to go too deeply into this but I refer back to other discussion we have had here and some reading.

I would separate the distinct difference in experience between what you are talking about (the light bulb effect) - which my own experience would ratify - and the kind of general, introductory effect meditations which could be just using very, very similar techniques as hypnotists to engender in the individual a passive relaxed state in which either the third eye is opened or the individual is inititiated into an relationship with the Shiva entity.

Sadly, despite years of involvement I am not 100% convinced that any of them really know what they are doing or what is going on. Unfortunately, all this evidence of historical revisionism has only pulled the rug from under the last vestiges of faith in what I was told by the BK. Hence the abstract language.

In hypnosis you absolutely have the focus on the point, starring into eyes, the relaxing of the body, the letting go of the body, mental displacements from the body (which some interpret as moving up or down and moving consciousness into chakra from other chakras), the use of repetitions (down, down,down ... up, up, up), tone of voice, the coming back into bodily consciousness and free association of "imaginations" whilst in that conscious trance like state. I think that you can see how many of those relate or appear similar to a certain level of BK meditatory practises and experiences.

There is the other stuff; complete "champagne cork" out of the body into Paramdham experiences, billowing white light of Subtle Regions, vision of faces/deities stuff that I would accept were "real" experiences and not hypnotic, although a general hypnosis might be used to invoke the state of mind to which a door could be opened "from the other side".

There has also been discuss about how some individuals find themselves much more hypnotically susceptible than other. Science and practitioners agrees. How do they fair in the BKWSU? Is there any checking? For example, are the Bhog/trance messengers BK that have a stronger tendency to hypnotical suggestion?

I think also within hypnosis there are different levels, from what I have experience to deep trance (i.e. completely out of dancing-like-Elvis stuff of stage hypnotist) to some sort of actual "occult mesmerism" which I would relate as being close to dhristi. If I can use words that I do not entirely understand to illustrate, I mean something on a par with a particular siddhi.

Having looked into this, I am amazed at the degree to which the human mind can be programmed not only to recall previous experiences but also those it has not. This element of recall is another element that I think is used in BK.

For example, during the course or soon after during the Honeymoon Period, Shiva soul takes his chance and blows our minds with an experience that we cannot assume or attain by ourselves. Afterwards we recall and re-invoke this experience through hypnotic suggestion.

It would be an interesting experience to put a group of hypnotically susceptible individuals in front of an experienced hypnotist and lead them to believe they had had the most mind blowing God experience they can imagine ... and then moreso ... Implant than in their minds so that it can be triggered off again ... and then discuss with them how they felt and see if one could start a religion amongst them.

It sounds like a big joke, and an offense to the BKs, but I am serious. Anyone that doubts the power of auto and group suggestion should look into the areas of NLP, hypnotically induced sexual orgasms and the success of mass manipulation techniques of experts such as televison advertising executives and Adolf Hitler.

I am attempting to look back to when this BK meme was first stamped by the die, the early period of Om Mandli when there pretty much was no practise, no visualisation, just Lekhraj Kirpalani chanting and he and the Sisters sending folks into trance by divine insight. I'd like to hear more about what was going on here.

My current position is that there is something going on that is much more "occult" than the BKWSU is willing to discuss openly and in detail and I, honestly, do not think that they really know what it is.

They talk about all this stuff like "opening the third eye" but only in a kindergarten fashion ... "oh, Baba means the third eye of knowledge!" ... whereas I truly think that they are messing around with individuals chakras, creating and using psychic chords and all sort of other stuff. This third eye pressure stuff being a good example. I still have/get it too even when composing this sort of stuff ... so make of that what you will!